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Apple Bundles InDesign With Power Macs
analog_line writes "Apple is firing a shot across the bow of Quark with a new promotion bundling Adobe InDesign 2.0 with every new PowerMac G4 (that is, the towers). News.com has a story on this as well. I say go Apple. Hopefully this will either get Quark to release their Mac OS X version of XPress or start the process of killing them off once and for all." I really liked QuarkXPress a lot when I used it extensively back in the version 3 days. It'd be a shame if it they lose out on Apple's new platform. But as a capitalist, I say, let the best product win!
But as a capitalist, I say, let the best product win!
But if Apple bundles the product wouldn't that give a distinct advantage to Adobe without regards to whether they have a better product? This to me is just Apple's way of slapping Quark's wrist and rewarding Adobe, who aside from Microsoft is Apple's biggest software producer.
"But as a capitalist, I say, let the best product win!" Holy cow!! Someone actually believes in capitalism around here. Sweet!
Damn, it's about time someone stepped up and did something about Quark. Almost embarrasing the way people(read: print services) have hung on to that outmoded relic.
This is nothing but good news.
Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
(That's a DTP joke, for those of you in the back)
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
shouldn't it be: as a capitalist, I say, let the product with the best advertising win.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I love competition. Look at graphics cards: ATI has just overtaken nVidia, who overtook 3dfx, who overtook Matrox, who overtook ATI ... The big winner is the citizen with her wallet, getting an order of magnitude performance increase, for similar cost, every couple years.
I started doing desktop publishing with PageMaker 4, which was right before Quark started to really kick their butts in PC-land. Adobe bought PageMaker from Aldus, who'd invested a lot of effort in working with designers and creating a great product. Adobe got complacent and sat on their ass, with the result that Quark crossed platforms and ate their lunch. Now they're coming back with InDesign, which has some great features and usability enhancements that Quark can't touch (OS X support aside).
Another thing helping Adobe is their frankly brilliant positioning of PDF. The network effect of PDF is huge - many print shops are taking files in PDF for complex jobs, and our local paper (The Oregonian - not high class, but not little) asks for ads in PDF. PS is still the standard, but PDF is a nice intermediary. Adobe's turning it into the XML of page layout and design.
Random thought: Artistic and design tools is the one of the hardest areas for OSS to compete, because these programs (like Photoshop, Illustrator, Final Cut, etc.) are all about interface and polish. I'm not saying that OSS can't do this, just that it takes a strong vision and committed management to pull off this type of software.
Anyone want to lay odds on Adobe porting it's suite to Linux? OS X support could pull that argument in either direction.
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Touché
I am alone, yet I also surf the universal backwash of undifferentiated Being, which is LOVE.
He did bother posting.
I've been a Quark loyalist for years, and almost took a job with them last year. I'm so glad I didn't, because since then: 1) They've moved most of their programming to India. 2) They've fired some of their sales reps around Chicagoland. 3) One of their big guns as far as keeping corporate customers happy has left Quark and started a company that consults businesses migrate from QuarkXPress to InDesign. I'm losing faith in Quark by the minute. Version 5 was a complete waste of time. Luckily, 50 percent of my job consists of simply trying to keep QuarkXPress running on 60 machines without crashing. Another 30 percent is spent restoring jobs from backup that got corrupted when QuarkXPress crashed, and the last 20 percent is figuring out how our in-house asset management system can be modified to work with InDesign instead of QuarkXPress...
Oh, let the death be slow, messy and painful. Let it drag on at least as many months as that dog cost me in lost productivity due to crashes, conversions, etc. The more you learn about the software the more friggin screwed up it seems. Bad design, bad implementation, bad interfaces, bad support, bad roadmap. Bad, bad, bad.
illegitimii non ingravare
But if Apple bundles the product wouldn't that give a distinct advantage to Adobe
This isn't "bundling" in the sense that Apple does with iTunes or M$ does with IE. It's a temporary sales promotion. You need to send in a coupon in the mail and wait two months for the free copy to be sent to you; this isn't something you can exploit to make a deadline or market window.
Those who complain about affect & effect on
Socialism would be far better than what we have right now.
Haven't you ever heard the expression, "The grass is always greener on the other side?" Anything would seem to be far better than what we have right now. It rarely turns out that way, of course.
Until you get your blinders removed, just change your slashdot bookmark to www.arstechnica.com.
"Please don't take this as a flame," it's just that you're posting in the wrong section of Slashdot if you expect anyone to care.
Have a great day, Sparky.
JFK Jr.? That's sick.
One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
The Mac is really a niche market - graphic design. If there are no apps to support the designer, Apple goes kaput.
Most (meaning over 90%) publishing houses use Macs and Quark, exclusively, keeping InDesign around just for experimentation and compatability. If someone sumbits a job in Page Maker, they will get the job returned. Apple knows this, and since Quark really has made little public indication of an X-native XPress in the future (let alone before January 2003 -- when all new Macs will only boot in to X), Apple's main consumer base is at risk. As for right now, migrating all users to InDesign (which can read XPress documents, sort-of) is the best solution for Apple. At least until Apple decides to make that market its own and release iPublish or some other such rubbish.
"Jesus saves, but everyone else in a 10 foot radius takes full damage from the fireball."
Ironically, it was Apple that pushed QuarkXpress in the first place. When Aldus decided to port PageMaker to the PC, Apple got annoyed at them, and because the then-new QuarkXpress was Mac-only, they threw their considerable marketing weight behind it.
Perhaps if Quark had been a cross-platform developer, they might have been more nimble about porting to OS X.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
i think they are "speed holes" actually. fucking 20 seconds......
quark xpress is available for both windows and mac.
I don't see how this will help companies adopt os x. these companies use quark because it is what they are used to. they are just going to switch because apple bundles it with the machine? i imagine until there is an os x version of quark, companies will simply ignore os x. and then perhaps even after it is available they will still ignore it, since alot of what the print world uses are applescripts that just won't work in os x because features are different/missing.
Much better. It's cheaper, but it doesn't wok right out of the box. I have to put it together, it's un polished, doesn't do everything it should do, and has a much slower development time than the commercial version. Much much better.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Simple, it's the best product. What's so hard to understand about that?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I always find it funny to hear someone (usualy radical feminists) declare that the usage of he or she to describe an object is sexist. Espesialy when you consider that most words which are refered to as she/her are usualy items which are to command the upmost respect (i.e. the flag, the nation, a boat, a very nice car, a beautiful sculpture etc etc etc). How is asociating the female gender with respect and reverence sexist?
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Poof! G'bye InDesign!
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Look at those dirty rat bastards, Microsoft, bundling Internet Explorer in with the OS for free.
It is no wonder that Netscape couldn't compete.
Look at those dirty rat bastards, Apple, bundling InDesign with Powermacs for free.
It is no wonder that Quark couldn't compete.
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
The only reason that Quark is still considered the industry standard is because Adobe biffed InDesign's introduction and 1.0 release so badly.
I've hated Quark ever since they decided to ship XPress 4.0 on 1 floppy disk (with the 400K installer app) and 1 CD for years...thus making it impossible for new PowerMac owners (without floppy drives) to install without having to do backflips through Quark's flaming hoops of DOOM. Not only that, but it's extremely temperamental, and breaks all the time.
I hope this is the last nail in Quark's coffin. Industry standards are only a hinderance when they stagnate in badly managed software, archaic code, and gold-plated pricing.
-----
"Cogito Eggo Sum: I think, therefore, waffle."
why would anyone post a comment like that unless they were on Dell's payroll?
That was classic intercourse!
Accept something for free if it is clear that the giver has no commercial interest in giving it to you or if the relationship is such that the giver can't exercise control over you or the product later on. Otherwise, be very suspicious and try to avoid the "gift" if you can.
InDesign is so OS X.2, while Quark is soooooo WIndows 3.1. I'm a graphic artist of more years than I'd like to count, first working with traditional tools and then with every Mac since the original. Started in desktop with a beta of Pagemaker, but used Quark almost exclusively, daily since the second version of it. Since InDesign went native, I've been a switcher, keeping a copy of Quark 4.1 in classic for quick updates to projects not worth porting over. I imagine that's what many of my breathern will do. Quark is dead by suicide. 5.0 is an insult. The company has always been a one-trick pony. Mind you, I made my living using it many years and was thankful during the early years, but Quark has spent the last how many years with no real updates to its product, and shown an active disinterest in OS X. But you know, they'd still get away with it if InDesign wasn't such a great product. It takes a transition time to get used to it, but when you bring yourself to understand that a layout program can work intuitively, without "quirks" (pun intended) you will never go back.
As someone who has walked into the Layout/ Design world over the last few years... I have become a major fan of Adobe Pagemaker. Yes, yes, I know... Sigh, moan, and wonder what is wrong with me. Wait... just sit down and read. :-)
What program has been here for years, working better and better with every upgrade? It's not Quark or InDesign; I use all and I know the major bugs with all of them. I do know in the world of Prepress, Pagemaker is THE underdog and unloved by most of my fellow prepressers. But, I still have hope for the old giant, PAGEMAKER. Take a look at the kind old Pagemaker and GIVE it a hug!!! InDesign 2.0, Quark 5.0... You have a long way to go to reach the godlike role of Pagemaker... It is your DADDY and you will like it!!!
One Rebel with a cause!!! PAGEMAKER FOR EVERY PREPRESS AND PREWEB HOUSE!!!!!
LOVE
Bad Andy
(AKA) Pagemakerguy!
you have to have the good sense to reward development efforts, or you will soon have none. quark needs a spanking of the worst kind!
yes! yes! the misery loves company, doesnt it? makes you wonder who they were designing the program for in the first place, eh? Any company that releases an upgrade that isnt compatible with a stable-arse operating system (like OSX) is already on the chopping block, waiting for the axe to drop.... is someone going to play "Taps" for Quark when it dies? or can we just throw tomatoes?
the software is of minor consequence. i can learn new technologies and applications rather quickly, but integrating entire industries takes time. imagine thousands of 500 pages books designed in quark, and imagine how much money was required to design and produce them. so you have half a billion dollars in developmnent, and you are on one publisher. now multiply by five, and you have covered about two-thirds of the publishing sector my business works within. these titles need to be reprinted, modified, updated... when decisions to publish a program revolve around many costs, adding another couple $10k's can squash a project. the printers and separators we work with are very technologically savy, but the process is the point. does intel simply switch fabrication processes? and, why not?
I switched to InDesign for new projects almost the momment it came out. I only kept Quark around for old projects that needed reprinting or tweeking. There were problems with InDesign 1.0, but since 1.5 it has been great, and 2.0 is a dream.
I was looking for any out from Quark. The company has treated customers horribly for a long time. This includes bad tech support, crazy licensing schemes (including overpriced licenses), and a crusty product that was prone to crash a lot and not do what they said it would do.
Pagemaker was not updated in quite some time precisely because Adobe was working on InDesign. They built it from the ground up so that every piece of it is modular and easily updated. It has lots of great features and a great interface. I think the pricing structure is very straightforward, and Adobe has made many different upgrade paths available (a long time offering it for $99 to any Photoshop user).
I believe Apple is only playing favorites right now because Quark is growing more and more behind. If they don't start getting people to try out InDesign (and by using it realize how much better it is), if Quark doesn't deliver, they are screwed.
But Quark brought this on themselves long ago.
That's the end of my rant.
-trout
You won't be able to get it for free next year. Just through this year. Better get to buying. Personally I've got a G4 Tower with os 9 & 10.2 (i'm in 9 right now, having waited on migrating from 10.1.5 to 10.2) and I am dying to get a dual 1.25 with DDR. However, I am going to wait at least one to two years in hopes of a G5.
Come on IBM don't let me down (wow, when I was a kid Apple and IBM were sworn enemies, now IBM is making PPC Chips, times they are a changin').
Maybe you will all say I am a whining boy, but I always wonder why the nice deals are not available here in Europe. I am planning to buy a new G4 system for home use and I would just love it to have a copy of InDesign for free with it. But no luck, as this promo is not available over here. Only the LCD-monitor promo is running here now. When I asked Apple staff about it at Apple Expo Paris last week, they didn't even know about the promo. If Apple or Adobe is reading this: please make it a globally available promo! Thanks in advance.
I agree with the incentive comment. Apple is trying to survive in the current economy and I applaud any effort to their marketing strategy. I love InDesign and anyone who gets it will also. If Apple wanted to pull another Touche like they did with Shake and Emagic they could look into acquiring Poser by Curious Labs. The company is having serious financial problems right now and they have a user base of about 100,000. And, I must say these folks are absolutely passionate about this program. There is no OSX version out yet. But if Apple acquired Poser and offered it as a Mac only app like they did with Emagic packaged with a new G-4 all the poserites in Poserland would SHREIK and go out and buy a Mac and OSX, like yesterday. Think about it Apple!