Interview With Atari Jaguar creator John Mathieson

Bill Kendrick writes "The website Toxic Mag has an interview with John Mathieson, creator of the short-lived Atari Jaguar 64-bit game system - the system we can thank for such awesome games as the original Alien vs. Predtor, Iron Soldier, and the gorgeously psychadelic Tempest 2000. The beginng and end of the interview are in French, but the actual questions and answers are 'en anglais.'"

Comments

xbox

[Raven42rac]

Atari innovated the crappy console controller, that contoller was roughly the size of a lincoln towncar, Microsoft had great inspiration for the Xbox's gorilla-sized controllers.

Re:xbox

[British]

Don't forget the Jaguar had the plastic overlays you could put on the numeric keypad, just like the Intellivison. the Xbox controller was a breeze to use by comparison.

Wow, the PS dualshock controller, or even the Dreamcast controller sure has come a long ways.

Re:xbox

[Bill Kendrick]

Actually, that controller is pretty damned useful in games like Iron Soldier and Battlesphere.

In Iron Soldier, the various numeric buttons mapped to the various weapon mount-points on your IS. When I first got Iron Soldier 3 for the PlayStation, I found it very frustrating to have to hit L1 and R1 to try to cycle to the appropriate weapon.

In BattleSphere, the leftmost numeric buttons map to some speeds (kind of like how [0] through [9] did in Star Raiders on the Atari 8-bit). The middle buttons were weapon-related. The right buttons were targetting.

The nice thing was, the left-most firebutton ([C]) was thrust and rotation, the middle one ([B]) was fire-weapon, and the right-most ([A]) was auto-targetting.

You really do just get used to the controller. (It was the same with the PlayStation when I first got it and tried to figure out how the hell to play Twisted Metal).

The Jaguar controller's size doesn't make it too uncomfortable. Maybe if you had petite hands, or something.. :)

Question about the "64"

[briglass]

Now the Jaguar came out quite a while back, and if I remember correctly, quite a while before the N64. I remember there was some "catch" to the "64-bt" aspect. Was it really 64-bit?

Re:Question about the "64"

[Junks Jerzey]

No. The jaguar featured 2 32 bit processors on board. That was where the 64 came from.

You're incorrect. It had a 64 bit bus--you could count the traces on the board, if you like--so if you consider that to be 64-bitness, then it is indeed a 64-bit machine. But if you go by that definition, then the PlayStation 2 is a 128-bit machine.

Re:Question about the "64"

[Saige]

Depends on what part of the system you look at.

The graphics processor, "Tom", consisted of the GPU, which was 32-bit, but could read all 64 bits of data off of the system bus, and the Object Processor and Blitter, both of which were 64-bit chips. The Sound processor, "Jerry", had a 32-bit DSP, and a couple other minor features. The 68000, the third chip, was the standard ship.

Was it a 64-bit system? Well, it had a 64-bit system bus, and some chips that did 64-bit processing.

There were a lot of ridiculous claims by people that the system was "64-bit" only by adding the bit sizes of all the chips together, or some silly garbage like that.

clip from the faq for completeness:

- "Tom"
- 750,000 transistors, 208 pins
- Graphics Processing Unit (processor #1)
- 32-bit RISC architecture (32/64 processor)
- 64 registers of 32 bits wide
- Has access to all 64 bits of the system bus
- Can read 64 bits of data in one instruction
- Rated at 26.591 MIPS (million instructions per second)
- Runs at 26.591 MHz
- 4K bytes of zero wait-state internal SRAM
- Performs a wide range of high-speed graphic effects
- Programmable
- Object processor (processor #2)
- 64-bit RISC architecture
- 64-bit wide registers
- Programmable processor that can act as a variety of different video
architectures, such as a sprite engine, a pixel-mapped display, a
character-mapped system, and others.
- Blitter (processor #3)
- 64-bit RISC architecture
- 64-bit wide registers
- Performs high-speed logical operations
- Hardware support for Z-buffering and Gouraud shading
- DRAM memory controller
- 64 bits
- Accesses the DRAM directly

- "Jerry"
- 600,000 transistors, 144 pins
- Digital Signal Processor (processor #4)
- 32 bits (32-bit registers)
- Rated at 26.6 MIPS (million instructions per second)
- Runs at 26.6 MHz
- Same RISC core as the Graphics Processing Unit
- Not limited to sound generation
- 8K bytes of zero wait-state internal SRAM
- CD-quality sound (16-bit stereo)
- Number of sound channels limited by software
- Two DACs (stereo) convert digital data to analog sound signals
- Full stereo capabilities
- Wavetable synthesis, FM synthesis, FM Sample synthesis, and AM
synthesis
- A clock control block, incorporating timers, and a UART
- Joystick control

- Motorola 68000 (processor #5)
- Runs at 13.295MHz
- General purpose control processor

Re:Question about the "64"

[Saige]

But the Pentium didn't have 64 bit processors on the chip, now did it? Besides the 64-bit system bus, the "tom" chip has two of it's three components doing full 64-bit processing, not just accessing the system bus.

Re:Question about the "64"

[Phil Wilkins]

Virtually all of the registers on the EE are 128 bit too (although it's not particularly easy to make use of the top 64 bits of the int registers, other than by moving them into one of the numerous 4*32 bit float registers). The EE has more of a claim to 128bitness than any of the other current round consoles.

But then bitness is a only a part of the picture. The lack of blend modes, is the main problem on the PS2 (which I guess is comparable to the Jag's lack of texturing), and is why PS2 games generally don't look quite as lovely as their GC and XB equivalents (with a few notable exceptions, and of course, assuming there is a GC or XB equivalent, hugely in it's favour is the sheer size of the PS2s catalogue).

Re:Question about the "64"

[Saige]

So how do you define the bitness of a machine that has no CPU? There are specialized graphics processors that are 32 and 64 bit on tom, specialized sound processors that are 32 bit on jerry, and one general purpose 68000 chip that's there, as some Jaguar developers put it, to read the joysticks. (IE it is NOT there to do any significant amount of processing, no matter what some fanboys used to scream in years past)

Re:Question about the "64"

[Saige]

That's probably pretty accurate - there were a few games that were simply ports from other systems that more or less restricted themselves to using the 68000 chip. Thus, those were clearly games that could be described as 16-bit games.

Some of the more complex ones, such as T2k, AvP, and Battlesphere, are definately not restricting themselves to that chip. If I remember right, it might have been T2K that actually send the 68000 chip a shutdown command after it got the game up and running, though it may have been another one.

No Regional Lockouts

[clickety6]

It's ineteresting to note that the Jag had no regional lockouts - cartirdges and CDs from the US would workm in Europe and vice versa. The Jaguar would detect if it was NTSC or PAL and properly written software would display properly on the TV. Pity things aren't so simple these days...

extremely true quote

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

Mindblowingly realistic, but probably very similar games. Nothing much changes in video games...

Sad but true - off the top of my head, I can only think of two recent original games that really made a splash - the Sims and Pikmin

Everything else is more of the same. That doesn't mean games aren't still fun though - Mario Sunshine is a blast but not really that original.

Re:extremely true quote

[Tet]

I can only think of two recent original games that really made a splash - the Sims and Pikmin

The Sims is original how? It's just an enhanced version of LCP, with a better graphics engine, and better AI due to the increased CPU horsepower. The game concept itself is far from original.

Re:extremely true quote

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

Whoops. FOrgot about Little Computer People. And now that I think about it, Pikmin is rather like lemmings.

Nevermind, no originality at all, our entire culture is going in circles.

Maybe it's time to become a black turtleneck wearing, goatee sporting, coffee swilling nihilist. I guess that's been done before too, though. Ah well.

Re:extremely true quote

[mccalli]

I see no point in chasing after the latest consoles and their expensive software.

Super Monkey Ball and Pikmin. That's about it really - other than that, I play Pong (!) and Worms, both in their Playstation 1 versions. Used to play SSX Tricky too on the PS2, but while fun it's not as long-lasting as the games above.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:extremely true quote

[IIRCAFAIKIANAL]

I know you're responding to something else, but anyway - Super Monkey Ball = Marble Madness, Worms = Scorched Earth

Was Pong truely original? :)

Open Source Emulator

[sdjunky]

For those who might be interested you can find an Open Source emulator here

Re:Open Source Emulator

[unicron]

And a ton of roms can be found he-..uh, nevermind.

Re:Open Source Emulator

[unicron]

I had a friend come into a lot of money about 6 months ago, and he went on ebay and bought just about every known console system in existence plus about 10 games for each. He had a party one night and we just sat around playing old school games till the sun came up, was pretty dope. He even had a NeoGeoCD and a Wonderswan.

Re:The Atari what?...

[mccalli]

And besides, the Jaguar was a handheld.

Oh bugger. Completely wrong post above - I'm thinking of the Atari Lynx, aren't I? Not Jaguar at all...

Sorry.

Cheers,
Ian

Not the first

[Apreche]

There was another alien vs predator. It was a side scrolling beat 'em up game for the SNES. Much in the style of final fight and streets of rage. It was actually pretty crappy. There might have been an even earlier AvsP, but I don't remember it.
Does anyone remember the game with the cavemen for the Jaguar? I always wanted to play it, but I don't know the name.

Re:Not the first

[Saige]

Does anyone remember the game with the cavemen for the Jaguar? I always wanted to play it, but I don't know the name.

Dino Dudes Evolution. Not that great of game, really, but a good time-wasting puzzler. I never did get all that far in the game, it just never interested me enough to work past the tougher puzzles.

Re:The Atari what?...

[alanh]

You're thinking of the Atari Lynx handheld. The Jaguar is a console, the Lynx was a handheld.

Re:The Atari what?...

[John_Booty]

I think that you're thinking of the Atari Lynx handheld, not the Jaguar. The Jaguar was a console. And the Sega you're thinking of is the Game Gear.

I can see why you're not working in the game retail business anymore! :-P

Right!

[AtariDatacenter]

I have one of these in my datacenter. But I'd have to say that the Tempest upright is far more popular. Of course, it IS set on free play mode. ;)

PS: It is so strange that Atari could embrace such great products and ideas, but have the most spectacular failures when it comes to the business side of things.

PS: Which system play more like 'real basketball'? Was it the Atari 2600, or the Intellivision? ;)

Re:Right!

[DevNova]

Blame it on the Tramiels! After the incredible success they had with the Commodore 64, they lived out the rest of their professional careers believing that anything they did would succeed via word of mouth. They saw no need for advertising or professional marketing. The Atari ST, Falcon 030, and Jaguar had incredible capabilities at the time and, given the right marketing would have been much more successful and Atari as it was might still be around today.

My kids are still playing Jaguar today! They love Rayman and Val de'Iser (sp?) Skiing and Snowboarding. When they get a little older I'll introduce them to Doom and AvP.

Re:I still have one... thinking of selling it

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahh nice memories.

Of the console? Or the wife?

Odd response, Jag ramblings

[jvmatthe]

The games that pushed Jaguar hardest was either Doom or Iron Soldier 2. Both of these took the machine to its limit. The Doom port took a lot of personal involvement from John Carmack. The best game is of course Tempest 2000.

I would have thought that, after all their hype, the Battlesphere people would have the claim to the game that pushed the Jag the hardest. And given that Carmack has said he could optimized DooM better if he had it to do over again, I find it difficult to believe that it's pushing the Jag to the limit. Surely something that pushed more texture mapped polygons was tougher for the system to handle.

Other than that, it was an ok interview, I suppose. I'm not sure that there is a whole lot there that we haven't heard before, except for some of the details about the next-gen hardware. Would have been neat to see an example of the full-antialised graphics from their next sytem, given that good AA is still something people are stiving for today. (E.g. PS2 with jaggies galore on some games. Ick.)

Jag ramblings to follow... ;^)

Iron Soldier on the Jag was a great game, FWIW. Since playing IS1, I've had a chance to played Iron Soldier 3 on the PSX but not Iron Soldier 2 on the Jag. The update is both better and worse. The Jaguar, for all its faults, had the most button-laden controller to ship with a console, and for a game like Iron Soldier, that rocked. Unfortunately, the PSX control scheme just doesn't work well enough. On IS1 (and presumably IS2) you could choose the weapon mounted on either shoulder or either hip or one of the two hand weapons with a single button press. For IS3 on the PSX, you have to cycle through weapons, and that turns out to be a step back in terms of control.

Of course, the graphics on the PSX are a step up, but not all they could have been.

And it's true that Tempest 2000 was the best game for the system. Best music and best control and best gameplay experience. Defender 2000 (also by Jeff Minter) and Power Drive Rally are my other favorites. I sold all the rest, including the much-ballyhooed Battlesphere (which was definitely not worth the wait or the price).

(Shameless plug: I also compared Tempest 2000 for the Jag and Tempest X for the PSX here. Jag wins, despite the better hardware of the PSX.)

Re:Odd response, Jag ramblings

[jvmatthe]

Hrm. I don't think so, but it's been a while! The game does play significantly differently from Defender, IMO. You need to get into a trance and use the radar screen a lot and get the right combination of powerups. Stopping the alien capture of the humanoids is the primary focus and enemies are generally eliminated as they get in your way or you save a humanoid.

Also, it includes the original Defender (a simulation, not emulation) and Defender Plus, an interesting hyrbid between the original and the new trippy version.

FWIW, Defender Plus does have some odd slowdown in certain sections, which makes it seem as if it weren't completed or were unoptimized.

Then again, the only Defender I really enjoyed was on the Atari 2600. :^) That and Atari 2600 Stargate.

Re:Odd response, Jag ramblings

[Phil Wilkins]

Minter's code may be crufty (all that time as a lone programmer doesn't exactly encourage good habits), but his game design skills are what earns him the die hard fans. No-one does stuff like he still does. Definately one of my hero's, and one of the reasons I got into professional games coding.

He does seem to pick the platforms though (anyone got a nuon?) Fortunately he's primarily working on PocketPC stuff these days, so with any luck he'll sink Microsoft...

Re:Odd response, Jag ramblings

[Phil Wilkins]

Only if you consider every platform game ever to just be a 'port' of Donkey Kong.

I always liked Atari

[squaretorus]

- since I first laid hands on a square old 2600 joystick and draw a psychadelic multirainbow Atari logo on my bag.

Atari always seemed a bit more edgy, less businesslike. You kinda thought that Atari was more interested in screwing your older sister than your wallet.

The Jaguar was discounted before it even came out in the UK as far as I can remember - poor bastard.

ahh the jaguar

[sirinek]

Nice system, too bad it was the nail in Atari's coffin.

Re:ahh the jaguar

[afidel]

nope, they still live on, in fact NWN has an Atari splashscreen.

Those videos blew chunks... but were fun

[mekkab]

Intellevision.

"Now you can tell the difference between atari and intellivision with your eyes closed"
(Re: the voice module which only 2 games worked with!)

I watched all those old atari and intellivision games- made me realize how much I hate real player. But then again, those videos were probably left "rotting" on a crappy vhs all these years, so I shouldn't complain. For a person who still remembers most of the MEGAMANIA song, I should sit down and shut up.

working my way backwards: the fabulous disaster that was atari has a long and proud tradition of doing the wrong thing. In some ways, kind of like apple under the command of scully and Jean louis-gasse (after Jobs was given a dishonorable discharge- I guess he showed them).

Re:Those videos blew chunks... but were fun

[mekkab]

okay, you got me. It was 5: The three you mentioned and Space Spartans, and a baseball game.

googe is your friend.

I have another question

[shren]

(Looking at the bottom right of the motherboard diagram) What advantages are there to on-motherboard butter? Does it make the games creamy and smooth? Doesn't butter make heat dissipation a serious issue?

Re:I have another question

[shren]

duh.

I'll never admit this...

[Mulletproof]

I bought one of those piece of crap systems. I bought it, and the toilet bowl CDROM that went with it. Yes, AVP and Tempest2k were top notch, but they were one of the few lights of a console thatdied because of the absolute shittiest management this side of the galactic rim. Everything they tried to do seemed to be a pissing match with other systems titles and nearly everytime they tried such a stunt, they failed miserably. Their VR Racing game was crap compared to Sega's. Their fighting games couldn't even compare to Killer Instinct on the SNES, for cryin' out loud. The Morphing spaceship game didn't hold a candle to Starfox (even though the latter was on rails). Vid Grid for the CDROM was an interesting premise, but then I poped in Blue Lightining, otherwise known as "Monty Python's Air Combat". It felt like I was piloting a horribly rendered cardbord cut-out fighting other horribly rendered cardboard cut-outs. It was at this moment i knew I had been taken. Flim-flammed. Bamboozeled. I had sunk my hard earned money into a less than year old platform that was never going to amount to anything. "the system we can thank for such awesome games as the original Alien vs. Predtor, Iron Soldier, and the gorgeously psychadelic Tempest 2000."??? No, screw this. Thank the developers for those games, not the console which was a first rate piece of shit thanks to the people who managed it. Bitter? Oh yeah.

Know what's funny?

[Anonvmous Coward]

The article poster listed every single good game for the Jaguar. There were no others. The rest were garbage.

I paid $250 for one of those stupid things, and the lack of games was infurating. Then, when one trickled down, it felt like a half-assed development at best.

If that wasn't enough, the 3DO was kicking it's butt graphically even though it was supposedly so powerful. Part of me wonders if the Jaguar suffered the same fate that the Saturn did by being powerful, but awkward to program for. Tempest and AvP were awesome, and that was really it.

Okay, I'm done ranting, guess I can go read the interview now. :)

Re:The Atari what?...

[NeuroManson]

Actually at that time a LOT of systems were CD based (or had CD options):

Sega Genesis/Megadrive had a CD peripheral added in 1991... Panasonic released a laserdisc player around that time that featured a swappable drive bay allowing karaoke or Megadrive hardware (which, presumably, allowed SegaCD games to be played, using the LD player)

NEC's Turbografx/PC Engine had a CD model approximately the same time...

At the time the Jaguar was released, it already had the 3DO system to compete with, back in 1994... Add the impending arrival of the PSX and Saturn, and it was lost before even becoming an afterthought...

Re:How to pronounce?

[Jaysyn]

Closer? There *are* jaguars in the USA. In Florida & Colorado at least. Hint: a Mountain Lion isn't a lion.

Jaysyn

rotten jag games

[British]

I owned a jaguar once it went on clearence.

Checkered Flag was a disappointing race game. Seemed like a stripped down VR Racing, with no real excitement factor.

Iron Soldier was a disappointment too. I just couldn't get used to the controls, and eventually just got bored and smashed buildings.

Among one of the worst games was a MK-ripoff called Kasumi Ninja. I remember seeing a review, and one of the fighers was in a kilt. His special move? He lifted up his kilt and a fireball came out.

I swear the lack of licensing killed it. You dind't get Mortal Kombat, but really bad ripoffs like the ones mentioned above.

Then there was the whole battlemorph fiasco, which has got to have Duke Nukem beaten in terms of vaporware. It's sad if you lose the docs to a console's encryption scheme, delaying a game for years until after the console's achieved "Classic" status.

I should have listened to your Dad...

[Mulletproof]

Yah, your Pop was right and now I'm jaded into not being an early adopter of consoles, which was probably the prudent course of action to begin with. And Night Trap. Can't forget Night Trap and Sewer Shark ;)

It's only vapor until it's been released...

[Keeper]

And battlesphere WAS released (albiet in limited quantities).

Yup. And why does he have a Zero mod?

[Mulletproof]

First, I have to agree. AvP Jaguar was in some strange and twisted way better than the PC versions I've played. Oh, sure the graphics are way better now, but it almost seems like the PC AvP can't get the mood right (though bursting out of somebodies stomache is a step in the right direction). Beats me. Tempest and AvP are the only games I'll vouch for on an otherwise piece of shit system. Vid Grid would also be nice on a modern system these days. It was fun rearranging the video before it completed.

And finally, if your gonna mod this guy a zero, at least give a reason why, you chump. His comment is on-topic, It's not supremely offensive. It's not a loaded troll. Damn, somebody has got a serious case of brain hemmeroids....