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Keeping Kids Interested in Math?
bcrowell asks: "As a geek, I always assumed my interest in math and science would just naturally rub off on my kids, and sure enough, my older daughter kept insisting that she wanted to be a physics teacher like me when she grew up. Now, starting first grade, she volunteers that math is 'ok,' but not as much fun as reading, and she no longer wants to be a physics teacher. Her math work at school apparently consists of 'addition packets.' What good stuff can I do to help her perceive math as fun and creative? Generations past had puzzles by Sam Lloyd. I learned a lot of science from science fiction books, but my old favorites are getting dated, and my daughter also rejects them because they have male protagonists -- she prefers Nancy Drew, although she'll read my Fantastic Four comics if Sue has a big enough part. What other things have Slashdotters found to do with their kids? Growing crystals? Baking together as a way to sneak in fractions?"
Give them a different sum to solve each week, the answer to which is the amount of cash they get.
That should sort the little terrors out.
All things in moderation; including moderation
Instead of wanting to mold your daughter into a math geek, why not just let her enjoy the things that she wants to do by herself? Instead of trying to turn her toward math, why don't you just continue to encourage her reading skills and just leave it at that?
Your Lucky enough to have a kid who actaully shows intrest in reading at all.
Objects in the blog are closer then they ap
And in my proofs class we go over different ways of looking at things. Some of the ideas are in the "oh, I could have figured that out on my own" but many are quite fantastic. And learning about this stuff can be rather inspiring.
What I'm saying is that teaching kids 1+2=3 is all well and good. But those are simple, and boring concepts. To spark their interest in math, first learning what can be done with it is better. I mean, I would have been happy to avoid learning the times tables a couple more years to explore what math is really about: patern recognition/analysis -- think puzzles, games, etc.
In mathematics, one does not understand things, one merely gets used to them.
--VonNeumann
The amount that a child enjoys math even all the way up through high school is not what matters. Many kids are finishing high school these days with one or two semesters of calculus under their belts.
However, I believe that even the kids that didnt do all that well in math can do just fine later because even though the math "builds on itself," it isnt like they are using a bunch of theorems from first grade to prove the fundamental theorem of calculus or any others.
I say let them enjoy what they want to enjoy and when they get to jr high and high school you can start seeing if they want to be in something more. In elementary school not many kids are taking "Advanced" classes, and most all kids learn the same math. As long as she is passing dont worry about it
Don't try make your kids cookie cutters of you! All parents seem to try to do this, and the extreme ones can have disasterous results like the kids feel like a failure, because they did not meet their folks expectations. Let your child grow up in their own way, if she likes reading, let her read. If she finds her own path through life, she is likely to be much happier than if she tries to follow Mom's or Dad's footsteps.
A happy geek who left engineering to do finance, and whose parents supported the whole way him even though one is an engineer.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
I applaud your efforts. I hope yuo get some good answers, because my first child, a daughter, is now 10 weeks old and I expect to be addressing the same issues you have in a few years. I'll admit that deep down I was heartbroken at the thought my daughter wouldn't simply follow in my geeky footsteps. However, I'm quite happy to imagine her following in the footsteps of my wife, who is in the medical field, and really has a whole different set of skills than I do.
In short, please don't try to force her, or naturally assume that if she doesn't like math, there's something you can do to change it. The opposite is actually true, I think -- if she *does* like math, then there's *nothing* you can do to *stop* it. (I *like* emphasizing things with *stars*.)
To anybody who's about to flame me for wanting to force my child in either my footsteps or my wife's, don't be ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with a parent having dreams for their children, and it is an honor to think that your children will want to be like you. I never said I'd force her to do anything.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Since she likes to read get her on word problems then you can combine the love of reading with math.
But since she is just starting first grade give her some time. My son is just starting 2nd grade and he is ingulfed in math. First Grade generally gets them reading and counting.
Now, starting first grade, she volunteers that math is 'ok,'
So how many of YOU GUYS knew exactly what you wanted to do when you started first grade? How many times did it change between then and college?
Hello, my name is Doctor Sbaitso. I am here to help you.
Baking together as a way to sneak in fractions?
Dude, you shouldn't do drugs with your daughter...
Oh, wait.
Actually, baking is great. Try to bake a cake using only one-thirds and one-quarter measuring cups. Learn more in 5 minutes than their teachers will ever teach them.
Teachers are half the problem (or two-thirds, can't recall right now.) Case in point, I had a Calculus prof who was brilliant. Had been teacing for 50 years and could teach Calc in his sleep. In college, it was like the profs were trying to confuse the students. There was no flow, logic or appreciation of the concepts.
What about spatial toys like Legos, Erector Sets and Lincoln Logs? It would seem to complement math learning.
Just make sure you don't push it too hard. Your duaghter is hitting an age where she's more inclined to do what you DON'T want, than in making Daddy happy. It's called puberty.
Good luck.
The opposite of progress is congress
You actually think math is fun. Luckily, your daughter knows better. Don't try share your delusion with her. :)
My god, man! If my daughter hits puberty in first grade I'm going to do a murder-suicide.
DOnt let hre read what she wants and find her own interests. Force her to learn math despite the fact that she hates it. Eventually, she will grow up highly intellegnt and very angry, and take over the world!!
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
While I appreciate your interest in mathematics and your desire for others to enjoy it also, I caution you against pressuring your children to learn it. You could easily sour them on the subject, which would be contrary to your goal. Don't push puzzles in their face and tell them it's fun.. they won't necessarily believe you.
The primary thing is that you must be excited about it and let your children see your doing math and enjoying it. If they see you having fun with it, they will be more likely to pick it up. Children often emulate their parents, but don't often do what their parents tell them.
Ouch! The truth hurts!
Dude, she's in first grade. Let her keep playing with crayons and Barbies a few more (say, 8-9) years, then worry about it. There isn't a lot that kids at that age can do with math just because they're still learning basics.
But seroiusly, my suggestion would be to go out and buy some fun physics experiment books. I had a bunch of experiment books when I was young that I would read and do stuff from on the weekends (stuff like putting ping pong balls in the updraft created by a hair dryer on low). Show her stuff that's "cool" (for boys this meant baking soda + vinegar blowing up a capped bottle...dry ice works for this as well, btw) to her that she's interested in, and mention that she'll get to do a lot more, cooler things in her physics class in high school.
--trb
http://www.sallyrideclub.com/d efestivals.com/
http://www.sallyri
The festivals are a great way of exposing girls to all the different fields of science. Professionals in all areas run hands-on workshops to get the kids involved.
My parents went through a similar scenario with me. I wanted to be an engineer like Dad, but somewhere along the way, I decided I really liked to read more than doing math. And I completely understand about your daughter blanching at reading science fiction with only guys as the protagonists--I did the same thing.
I really like your idea of cooking to sneak in fractions. That's really the best way to go about it--sneak it in. If you push--like my parents did to me for a short time--she might get surly and go from "math is okay" to "math sucks ass, get off my bad, Dad." That said, make sure it's still available. Have those old sci-fi books out just in case *she* wants to pick one up. Keep an old PC handy that she can tinker with if she wants (keep it old and crusty and leave a book for learning BASIC lying around--heehee). On car trips, keep a calculator around, and when she asks "how long until we get there?" you can suggest she figure it out--I became a master at the last one. "Check Dad's speedometer, check the mile marker...we'll be to Grandma's in 2 hours. 2 hours?!?! Let me do that again...."
Those sorts of things helped with my eventual turn around from detesting math. Word problems were a help (they were puzzles not just equations). Dad would also occasionally do "fun stuff" in the back yard (building rockets, that sort of thing--blowing things up is always appealing). The other help was when I got interested in Star Trek (TNG started when I was 7). Cheeze-Whiz as it is, my Dad watched it with me and would "casually" point out the math and science things. I had Dr. Crusher, so I could say, "cool, a girl, like me!" and I had Dad to point out the things "Dr. Crusher probably learned in school." I'm sure getting educational value from Trek was a pain for Dad. At some point it turned into lessons on why things on Trek weren't real.
In the end, I wound up majoring in Computer Science in college. I'll honestly say that math is not one of my favorite subjects, and I'd rather read a novel than deal with a page of integrals or something, but I don't hate it, and I know how to get some level of enjoyment from it.
Oh, and if her nitwit first grade teacher ever makes her take "timed tests" where she has to spit out addition tables from memory. Beat the teacher with a wet noodle.
Good luck!
On cartrips with my family, if my wife and I start discussing something sometimes one of my kids will interject with question which leads to some interesting conversations. One night we were talking about state lotteries which led to statistics and I was trying to explain to my kindergartner the basic concept of "chance" from a pool of people and what happens when there are a lot of people involved:
"Mrs. Souza is going to pick either you or Brenny and give you this new pencil....do you think you might get it?"
"um.....yes"
"Ok, now suppose She is going to pick only one person from the whole class, do you think you might get the pencil?"
"um...maybe"
"Ok, now suppose she is going to pick only one person from the whole school, do you think you might still get the pencil?"
"um...maybe...but...."
"but what?"
"whats so special about that pencil?"
I graduated with a degree in math last year and along the way took several education classes (I hope to one day teach at the high school level).
During this time I came to one possible conclusion for why a lot of kids find math hard, or just outright hate it - a good chunk of the people that go into elementary education hate math, or find it very difficult. Look into your local college, and inquire to see what the math requirements are for a degree in elementary education. I assure you that chances are it is not more difficult than a high school Algebra II class.
I could probably write an entire essay on causes for poor math skills among elementary education teachers, and here I will just list one - poor teacher pay means that most people with math or science ability are not going to look at education as a possible career. Those who do are frequently like myself, wanting to teach middle or high school level students.
Think about the results of having most elementary school teachers disliking math. Subconciously nor not, they are going to pass along the idea that "math is hard" and that "it is alright not to like math." Less time might be spent on math, and other subjects, such as reading and writing, might be taught with more enthusiasm.
Note that I am not saying all elementary education teachers dislike math. Indeed, I met a couple in classes with me that were genuinely interested in mathematics. Even they agreed with me, though, that most of their fellow students strongly disliked math.
I am also not suggesting that the cause of the original poster's problems are caused by his daughter's teacher. I would recommend that any parent concerned about thier child's education to sit in on his or her classes for a day.
I suppose my best suggestion is to igonore the people that are posting saying "Do not push your child in one direction." In elementary school, at least in math, there is a strong possibility that the teacher is subconciously pushing students *away* from math, so something might have to be done to counteract that push.
In elementary school, most kids are not going to resent parents for being active in their education. That is the time to do it, as opposed to during high school or college.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Read her the story of the MIT Math Wizards who turned the tables on the casinos in Las Vegas.
Visit this website!
Force her to learn math despite the fact that she hates it. Eventually, she will grow up highly intellegnt and very angry, and take over the world!!
Yeah, and make sure you force her to dress in very ugly, oversized clothes. That way when she does become a supervillaness she'll want to parade around in skin-tight spandex outfits like the ones in the comic books! Catwoman: rrawr!
Hey, you want your daughter to be successful, right? Every time the news reports about how she managed to steal some rare jewel you can get all teary-eyed and tell everyone "That's my little girl. She was always so clever."
GMD
watch this
The site is dedicated to making math fun for kids. There are sections that explore gemotry, interactive online games and projects.
There are zero of those do-these-ten-problems-and-then-play-a-little-game kind of activities. At mathcats kids do the activities because the activities are fun and interesting, not because of some stupid "hook." This means that kids acutally learn something and they want to come back for more.
I think you have to look at what makes math interesting to a person. I personally hated math even though I did OK in math class. To me it was always about some answer that was already known, and some menial task that I had to perform to get it. It was about as much fun as taking out the trash.
I think that some find the wonder in math and see right through to the infinite possibilities but most don't. I think that some find that they are, for whatever reason, better at math than others and enjoy it just because they good at it. There are some that just like the mechanics of math. There are people like me who don't realize how cool math is until they find a use for it. That's why I like your baking idea. "We do math because we get cookies from it." I know it sounds flakey but first impressions mean a lot. Maybe she'll be better at math because of it and like it better as a result. I know a number of kids who excelled in math through junior high simply because their parents helped them along through the early stuff. They had the basic mechanics down and were able to see the bigger picture more clearly than kids like me.
I think the best teachers are the ones that understand this and can introduce math from various perspectives. I think that what typically happens, however, is that kids get seperated into good and bad math students. The good ones go to the teacher that loves math and relates well to the good math students. The bad math students go to the teachers that also hate math and thus they continue to hate math forever.
Get her out of school and into a home-schooling system that you can involve yourself in. It's a hard answer but if you're really concerned, it's your only choice.
School is set up from top to bottom to make sure that you hate math. It is my opinion that this is accidental, but I believe it is true. With no ability to explore the topic (must do homework, effectively must not do anything else), with the word "math" associated with rote performance of addition problem after addition problem (something that should be called "arithmetic", as it doesn't make it to "math" IMHO), with the swift formation of hatred for math created in the social environment (how many fourth-graders would admit to liking math, even if they did), the deck is stacked against us (as both parents AND students) that it's a damn miracle when anybody manages to fight past this shit and realize how wonderful math is.
Now, that said, it is certainly not for everyone and shouldn't be; I'll agree to that extent with the posts already made. But I'd say that the expression of interest before entering school is an unusual case. Whatever she liked before about math, she is being daily taught that that wasn't math, that it's really boring addition and subtraction and carrying the one that's "real" math. By extension, she will believe that she hates everything called math.
If you leave her there, you will not be able to counter this. Not to be morbid, but it may even already be too late; it's hard to force anyone, let alone a child, to fairly re-examine something they've already passed judgement on.
Unfortunately, most home-schooling stuff is just public-school stuff, except you do it at home. Whether or not you could create a truly useful math cirriculum is an open question, IMHO not answered because everybody assumes they MUST work in current definitions of "math" in elem. education, even if it damages the student to do so. There are a depressing number of unexamined assumptions in current education doctrine.
One of my dreams that will probably never happen is to take a crack at this.
(Also, it's probably worth pointing out that there is some developmental psychology worth knowing when trying to teach math. The Pieget stages of development aren't perfect, but they contain a lot of truth. Some math is not possible to teach to a child until they hit formal operational, and you'll only frustrate everyone if you try.)
You are confusing Mathamatics and Arithmatic. Kids are not mentally ready for math until 5th grade at the earliest. Until then then need some facts (arithmatic) as a foundation.
Tell her those packets are boring, but sometimes life is borning, and she needs to know all that. Everyone knows that 9+7 is 16, but you need to know that without counting on your fingers, it makes the rest of what she learns possible. Just make her do it, and then let her get on with the other toys.
Don't worry about perfect grades, make sure she knows what is going on. Spend your time teaching her how to think. Teach her to question facts to make sure they are reasonable. The best way to teach is by example. If you kids see you sit in from of the TV watching Hard Copy for your news (or the equivelent) they will learn to watch, and likely belive and care about junk news. If they see you read the Wall Street Journel or other respected papers and then discuss what you read (with your spouse, neightbors, and kids) they will learn to do the same.
Don't be too cought up in what the kid wants to do now. Nobody is equiped to decide what to do with their life until at least 9th grade, and many switch carrers several times. The world needs Doctor, ditch diggers, and preachers. For now make sure she can do whichever one she wants to. (note that all of the above require some inborn ability that not everyone has - doctors need to deal with blood, ditch diggers need to be strong, and preachers need to understand both God and People - assuming they are not crooks, those just need to understand people)
<ducks>
I hated math in first grade, too. It was boring as all of heck. In college, I went out of my way to take some of the more advanced math courses offered, because by that time it was interesting. Just because your daughter doesn't like first grade math doesn't mean she won't like any math. In the meantime, just let her enjoy the first grade.
I really wouldn't worry too much about it, being first grade and all...
:) )
I didn't become interested in really geeky stuff until much later.
And anyway math isn't REALLY interesting untill you you get to a sufficiently high level. I guess that the early on the primary thing is to avoid becoming scared or getting too many knocks...
maybe teaching her some tricks, like Trachtenbergs methods would help her feel good at it. (this is the original book... i bet something better has cropped up since). The methods are amazingly fast though... (being able to add as fast as the bar code reader at the supermarket is really neat in a geeky kind a way
Feeling you're good at something certainly can't hurt.
"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." -George H.W. Bush
One of the big things that would make kids appreciate math more is tying it into practical engineering. I had zero interest in math in elementary school and High School because no one ever showed me it was good for things like flow in pipes and machining tolerances. Elementary vectors are not that hard and I would love to try teaching a kid that there are some neat things that happen when you push down on a chair. A lot of engineering can be done with basic algebra and I think it would make kids feel a lot better about this scary, overwhelming subject if they could see pictures and were taught practical applications based on mathematics principles. Even relatively young kids could probably understand that a vector has a number and a direction and the value of units like m/s distance etc. [-)
What would Richard Feynman do, if he were here right now? He'd do some math and he'd follow through!
Now, if you do do this, make sure you're still interacting! Ask your child if they're having fun and what type of game he or she would prefer. It's the only way to make sure it's not boring, to be honest.
... not to be quite so much of a faminazi.
There's nothing wrong with a male protagonist, and your daughter's unwillingness to read books with male protagonists suggests a rejection of male role models.
Looks to me like you're just another one of those whipped geeks who's let your wife walk all over you since you got married and now your daughter's picking up on it--why would she want to be whipped just like you? Why would she be interested in math when geeks like you like math?
It's not a question of steering kids toward something. It's just a question of keeping possibilities open, making sure that nothing is blocked or made inaccessible to them. Just make sure all doors are open, don't try to push them through any particular doorway.
If a girl grows up and never sees or hears about any female scientists, orchestra conductors, veterinarians, she may internalize the idea that "girls don't do that." That was a problem in the 1950's, but now now. And if you're interested in math, just let your geekish enthusiasm show. That will be enough.
That being said, I ONCE had a wonderful afternoon with my daughter. But only once. It was the only time we had fun doing a math-geekish thing together. She was much older than your daughter, seventh or eighth grade, and was given the opportunity to do a math project for extra credit and was allowed to suggest her own project. She came to me for ideas. I suggested something, she liked it, teacher approved it and approved my helping with it and supervising it.
The project was to estimate the value of pi five different ways.
I had her measure the circumference and diameter of a bicycle wheel with a metric measuring tape. Then I had her drop the most spherical rubber ball we could find into a metric measuring cup, see how much water it displaced, and solve for pi in four-thirds pi R cubed. Then we did the thing of pitching a needle onto a paper ruled with horizontal lines. And I set out a worksheet for her to calculate it with two different series, the one that converges VERY SLOWLY (1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7) and one that converges fairly quickly (the one with the 5's and the 239's in it).
She enjoyed doing it but was a little frustrated by the inaccuracies of first four methods. But when she got pi to six places by the third method (I had carefully laid out a worksheet with places for all the intermediate results) she was really quite pleased and excited.
As I say, it only happened once, but it was a great afternoon.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
There are several resources you can use, even at such a young age to involve your daughter in Math. While giving homage to the gods of commercialism, The Leal Pad is highly popular with kids and has several levels of introductory math modules. All my nieces and nephews love their Leap pads.
As your daughter progress through school look for schools that offer a program called IMP (interactive mathematics program) at www.keypress.com. This is only offered at the highschool level right now but hopefully will be developed for younger students soon. The program is innovative and is based around problem based learning. A few studies have been done to date and have shown that in most instances that it does a better job of preparing students for college level math as well as actually getting kids enthusiastic about math. If you find your daughters interest waning try and find this program in one of your local schools. And no, I don't own stock in either company I mentioned.
12 years ago, in first grade I wanted to be a rocket scientist. Now I'm writing this post from my dorm room at Carleton University where I'm taking Aerospace Engineering. Dreams do come true! *wipe away tear*
Most of the comments I have read focus on making arithmetic fun. Mathematics is such an enormous field, and many of those can be made fun.
Remember spirograph? Beautiful pictures, very simply done, based on mathematics. Draw some dots in a 'L' shape on a piece of paper and use a ruler to make curves with straight lines (you know what I mean). Bash some nails into a piece of wood and do the same thing with some coloured string. Draw up a pascals triangle and colour code the numbers (multiples of 2, 3, 4 etc in different colours).
Use a fibonacci sequence to draw boxes (1st box 1x1, 2nd box 2x1, 3rd box 3x2, etc using the long side of the previous box as the short side of the next), then draw quarter circles within the boxes to get a nice spiral effect. Check out the Sybase logo for an example.
Then you have graphs of 3D functions, and axial rotations of 2D functions. There are many more ideas. Young kids like pretty pictures with lots of colours.
She doesn't necessarily have to understand the mathematics right now, she'll just enjoy doing stuff with you, getting a nice picture out of it, and most importantly she'll associate "maths" with "fun".
Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust!
It depends how much it matters to you. She's at the age where arithmetic is the skill she needs to learn and learning it is unpleasant. If you are willing to make a more radical break you might want to try something like Waldorf. Their math follows human history so at her age they do rythmic math (i.e. song and dance related math) in 2nd grade math in the ancient world style later grades they use geometry to teach math -- i.e. a^2 - b^2 = (a+b)(a-b) is really expressed as the difference of two physical squares being a particular rectange. Trig is taught be doing stuff like construcing a mini pryamid.
Its pretty neat. In all fairness they focus a great deal more on fine art; but they leave behind a genuine interest in math and an understanding of how creative the subject really is.
Its worth checking out if your goal is to get her interested.
games like that are simple enough that kids can get the hang of them pretty quickly and they boil down to finding clever ways to arrange numbers. backgammon and probability. what's the likelihood of rolling a seven? and now what's the likelihood of rolling a seven with a five and two? also, do those things that make it clear that math is all about the real world. that math is everywhere. until this year my kids were homeschooled and it became apparent that things like stories on NPR were loaded with instances where math--and plenty of other basic concepts-- was inherent. in fact, i flunked calculus twice in college before i realized that it wasn't some stupid exercise. then one day, i and a couple housemates used calc to figure out how long the groove on a 12" lp would be if you stretched it out. i flunked calc twice more after that. but i knew how long the groove was.
Get her a video game for math. When my daughters were that age they wore MathBlaster out. In high school and college they always took and passed the hardest math courses available. In first grade kids just want to have fun and if they have learning, they retain it better.
When I was in college, I used to tutor Physics and math and based on informal surveys I used to do on people, I came up with a pretty decent (at least in my mind) theory. Being that math is a cumulative subject, most people stop learning math at some point in their academic careers when they encounter a teacher that can't communicate the concepts to them in a way they understand. All it takes is one bad teacher to screw it up for them for good (depending on their willingness to try to catch up). Most people I encountered had that bad teacher and stopped learning math at that point. It made it so much harder to catch up to everyone else and eventually they gave up until they got to college and had to take algebra to graduate with their major. I suggest making sure that they simply don't fall behind in math and they will be ok. They don't have to be math wizzes, just make sure they don't fall behind. They decide for sure what they want to do when they get older. One thing to remember is that many times your children will head exactly in the opposite direction of where it seems like they should head based on genetics/environment. I've always known that I wanted to be a scientist, but I'm a strange duck!