Slashdot Mirror
More Switching Stories
serendigital writes "Unix guru Simon Cozens wrote about his "conversion" story in the UK Unix User Group Newsletter. He touts: OroborosX and XDarwin. This gives you a rootless X server and Aqua-like window manager. He also seems to like the libraries: the NeXT approach of separating libraries off into their own subdirectories and separating out library versions makes for a much tidier filesystem arrangement than simply bundling everything in /usr/lib. One of the more controversial "differences" in OSX." And on the other side of the switch, there's Wil Wheaton does Mandrake.
Mandrake has been very good to me. I have helped many people i know move from windows to linux and Mandrake is about twice as easy as anything else i have found. With the latest version 9.0 its even better and i would advise checking it out. As much as people like to flame Mandrake for not being a "hardcore" distro i say i dont care. It is distro's like Mandrake that bring in new people and it was what i used to switch over.
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Most users don't care whether you're running FreeBSD or Linux underneath. What they see is the shell and the GUI.
And, incidentally, no, I don't find it a problem having only one mouse button.
;)
:)
Well, now we know he's been paid off.
Seriously, the more I hear about OSX, the more interested I get in trying it out. Who knows - my next PC might be a Mac
Robots are everywhere, and they eat old people's medicine for fuel.
You don't have permission to access to this document on this server.
Apache Server at wilwheaton.net
Wrong button Ensign Crusher! :)
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
Apple will almost certainly never port to generic x86. Ignoring every other argument about whether or not it would be profitable for them to do so, Apple still needs Microsoft Office, and I promise you that the second that Mac OS X runs on generic x86 boxes is the second that Office development stops and the Mac's life support lines get pulled. (Don't get me wrong; the Mac's user base has been revitalized and the software lineup is infinitely better than four years ago when Office 98 was the rage, but if you think that the Mac would run without Office v.X in the business world, you've got another thing coming. As long as the Mac continues to have this dependancy, I will consider it on life support systems that are run by Microsoft.)
Meanwhile, if the idea of a very OS X-like environment on your box is highly appealing, stick your coding where you mouth is and go help the GNUstep project. They are improving every day, and ever little contribution that brings them more in line with OS X will help tremendously. Recently, two projects --LinuxStep and Simply GNUstep--were even spawned to create GNUstep-centric Linux distros. I am very hopeful that these will mature into a fully open-source desktop OS that is just as easy as OS X from a user standpoint and also returns the Mac's kickass development system to the Linux world. Go check them out, give them a hand if you can. And don't say, "It's not nearly complete enough"; it's a circular argument. The only solution to that is to go help.
Stuff like this makes me wonder what some of the names of 24th century operating systems.
Microsoft apparently gets more powerful over the years, and decides to name it and all the companies it acquires "The Federation." Galaxy Class Starships run Windows 2.35k Service Pack 4.
(FYI: Klingons run Linux 3.5.7 kernel. Not much work has been done on it since the 22nd century, where the kernel dev team finally went bonkers and decided to started growing ridges on their heads. The penguin has been replaced by a Targ, and every year there is a festival which commemorates the burning of plush penguins).
This is the true reason Wesley left. He got tired of all the Computer Lockouts and Copyright protection. So he travels back in time to try and push Mandrake, changing the course of history into something that looks more like Firefly.
Oh God, all this acid is making my head hurt. I'll stop now.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
Stop spreading FUD already :)
Apple's hardware is expensive.
;) While it is true that I could run Linux on my shiny new powerbook, I can also continue to do so on my shiny Thinkpad, which is just as solidly built.
It is understandable that they have to be a bit higher priced to support development costs, as their market is smaller, however the fact that I can buy a very capable product, often for half the cost of its mac counterpart is always the first problem I run across when considering the switch.
OSX is not free.
As much as Apple likes to tout their new position as open source loving folk, the fact remains that they will be charging for this OS. While I do not disagree with this business model, it feels as though Apple has taken a lot more than they have given back.
OSX is amusing.
Unfortunately, I think that after a few months with it I would long for a nice X server with WindowMaker. (more NeXT than OSX anyway
Steve Jobs scares me.
He does.
Wrong, on Darwin, NeXT STeP, OpenStep and Mac OS X, the /usr/lib/dyld (which is like /lib/ld.so) can find the libraries if there are in /System/Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX, /Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX, ~/Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX, and /Network/Library/Frameworks/XXX.framework/XXX (not in that order though), so the LD_LIBRARY_PATH (actually DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH on Darwin/Mac OSX) does not need to be touched at all.
read dyld(1) and ld(1) for more information on how this is done.
Any modern usb mouse/keyboard can work with a mac. Just plug it in. Scroll mouse and everything. I agree on mice. I go crazy if I use a computer without a scroll mouse. Just like a pc, if you do not like the default os then you can use linux. In the future when everything but drm-windows is outlawed, the mac might be your only hope for freedem. Linux will always be there. Instead of paying a ms tax, you just pay an apple tax. However with Darwin you can take off aqua and run a real unix if you like.
http://saveie6.com/
Wil linked this screenshot of GNOME, as an example of what the desktop in Mandrake looks like.
;-)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can see Alan Cox's fuzzy head over on the 'Projects' icon.. and prolific Linux hero or not, I can't see Mandrake coming with an Alan Cox icon.
mogorific carpentry experiments
There is no reason to use MS Word anymore, it is a dying project and good riddance.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Everyone who isn't a trained actor looks like an idiot when a camera is trained on them. That's the point. Real, goofy, quirky, neurotic, normal people, not paid actors.
Wil. Not because he switched to linux, but because his story included a pointer to pr0n. Get your head in the game, Apple, you're losing serious points here!
--Jim
My two favorites were: /Applications/Internet\ Explorer.app /Volumes/OS\ 9/Applications\ \(Mac\ OS\ 9\)/Microsoft*
.smi and a CD to install Appleworks and Mozilla. Nothing better than removing all traces of M$ from my system with the shiny new command line (this was when I first got OS X) and then getting to still use my lovely GUI to put on better, cheaper (or free) alternatives.
rm -rf
rm -rf
Then I just used an
Meanwhile, if the idea of a very OS X-like environment on your box is highly appealing, stick your coding where you mouth is and go help the GNUstep project.
Why? I want a Mac for the fact that it's a mac: A unix like system that lets me get my work done yet still has enough of a market share to coexist in the company groupware system and even the occasional game (if frequently delayed) and no Microsoft Tax.
I don't see how Yet Another Freaking Window Manager for Linux is going to give the benefits the Mac does. Other things will, but it will require increased market share and a large userbase defacto standardization on a single desktop and window manager (Which can only start with a distribution like RedHat doing what it has done with Gnome/KDE).
Pricewise, Mac desktops are not all that bad (Dual 867 for $1600) but could still do with some price cutting. However, the real value is in the laptops, and they are -across-the-board- at least $1k too expensive. A 800mhz powerpc laptop with a 40 gig drive a 512 meg memory is $3200. A comparable IBM Thinkpad (1.2 gig, 512meg, 40gig) will be about $1400, and the 1.8 gigs only $400 more.
That $1800 difference sure makes the Microsoft Tax less odious.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
Weird microkernel? Mach? It's older than NT.
NeXT stuff under the hood? You mean the assorted UNIX libraries that provide the GUI and such? How's that different from KDE or CDE?
DPS hasn't been used since 1999 or so. The only thing that makes it UNIX is that it runs some UNIX commands? How is anything else more UNIX? Linux is less UNIX than Mac OS X if you want to be a pedantic jerk, really.
Hate computers? I love computers. Switch from Linux? I did. I want to have apps. I want to have a UI that doesn't make me depressed just thinking about it. I don't want to have to deal with the PC hardware every day. I switched and I couldn't be happier.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
I hightly recommend that the KDE/Gnome guys get together and make a Linux "open" command, so we don't have to parse all their files just to figure out what a double-clicked file means. Even Windows does this (they call it "start") but for some reason the Linux guys, despite such familiarity with the command line, have not come up with this.
There is a stupid problem on Apple which is why you cannot just type the name of the program. All clickable applications are in ".app" directories, with the exectuable and support files all in one directory. This is a good idea but the implementation sucks:
First of all, if there are no support files they should allow a single exectuable rather than a .app directory, this is how Windows and KDE/Gnome handle files, on OS/X a compiled executable cannot be double-clicked from the finder, which is stupid. It also makes it a pain to write portable programs that can be run from the command line.
Second they should get rid of the ".app" suffix so that they don't have to special-case a "hide suffix" operation in the finder. If you rename any directory .app it screws up, this is probably a bad idea. They should also fix it so that exec can run these, right now to run such a command from the shell you have to type command.app/command to run the executable inside it. Again, pretty stoopid.
> The idea that one button is "easier" is stupid.
Never worked support, have we?
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
Ok... normally I use SuSE Linux with Gnome for everything. But we do schools and schools do MACs so here I am with OS-X on my (messy) desk. Right next to me is my LCD monitor which can show me my Linux GUI or my Windows GUI. I can compare all of them with little effort.
What do I like about OS-X?
1. I like the size and convenience of the iBook. It has Unix on it and that makes it useful for me to carry to clients' sites and check out their network. Normally I carry a Linux laptop for this but the P-120 laptop (my wife's old machine) is too slow for a useful GUI.
2. I like the GUI. Heck, I was laying in bed the other night playing games on this thing and it was damn fun. (Well, fun for me, my wife was annoyed at the bleeps and whistles... sheesh.)
3, I like that it's Unix... BSD rocks (although I generally prefer Linux).
What do I not like???
1. Yeah, the mouse. One button. I like to surf using new windows for links and then close 'em down to go back for more links. A single-button mouse doesn't do this and it's a pain in the butt to carry a mouse with me.
2. One desktop. Damn! How can I work with only one desktop? On my Linux box I have 4 desktops; one for email/calendar (Ximian Evolution), one for web browsers, and two for misc apps I pull up (Open Office, GAIM, etc.). How anyone can do useful work without having multiple desktops (accessible with alt-F keys) is beyond me. Is there a way to do this on the MAC. I dunno yet.
3. The keyboard on this iBook bounces... some letters in words appear twice in a row. This annoys me. Although, to be frank, it might be just my untrained fingers on a new keyboard.
Generally, however, I like the iBook and I like OS-X. I would recommend this product to any client as long as the apps they need are available. But I'm not switching yet.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
And why wait for it to take off? My latest Mac OS X app Gridlock was an easy port to GNUstep. The non-UI code worked perfectly with zero changes; there were a few UI issues but they were simple to work around.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Like many of the die hards in my office, I thought OS X was an improvment over Mac OS, but I stuck by my linux installation as my primary work station for quite some time. A couple of weeks ago- with the release of 10.2, I decided I would switch over on an experimental basis. With OroborOSX and XDarwin, as well as the Mac OS X developer tools, I'm pretty much sold at this point.
I now have a workstation that runs most (if not all) of the Unix ish apps I need to do my work, as well as the propritary applications I used to have to switch to windows for.
Sure, I still have three boxes on my desk (Linux WS, Mac g4 desktop, and cheesy little windows laptop) but I'm increasing using ONLY the OS X system. I'm pretty much sold - as are most of the other's on the engineering/it team I work with.
'course at home - I still run linux - but I don't need MS Office as much there. I'm still sold on Linux as a platform, all but a very few server installations I'm working with at this point are linux, and I'm not about to get rid of it all together - but the next machine I'll buy will be a tiBook (though if you're listening apple, we need a damed two button mouse)
\Drew National Data Director, John Edwards for President
Do NOT install MetamorphX or other theme-switching utilities with 10.2 I installed the BeOS MetamorphX theme on OSX, and it caused the OS to become unbootable! It would get to the login screen where I'd choose between users, then it would get snagged.
h tm l
Fortunately, there was this nice option in Install CD to install over the current OSX, but keep the users files and preferences. Nice, but still a pain in the ass.
The desire for alternate themes shows the deficiencies in OSX's current theme. OSX's Aqua effects make it look like a two-dollar whroe. I personally preferred the OLD OS 9 appearance much more; I also like the std. BeOS appearance and the NeXT appearance much better. A GUI is supposed to help me get things done quicker, not impress me or get in my way.
Apple has dropped the ball in a number of UI areas in OSX, though overall its an improvement.
1. No labels on dock icons unless you move mouse over them. Dock icons should be labelled with labels to the left/right if the dock is on the right/left side of the screen; if its ont he bottom, the labels should be tilted.
2. No separation of the grouping of running applications from favorites on the dock. All running applications should be in the same place on the dock, not mixed in with your favorites.
3. Lack of serious configurability. This has always been a problem with Mac. Jobs, get your head out of your ass. Everyone is different; different people will want it set up different ways. I find these Aqua-effects and transition effects, as well as animations, to be completely useless. I want instantaneous responses. Here in the real world, people want to get work done, not be distracted and annoyed by genie or scaling effects.
4. Ability to view folder as pop-up has been lost. That was a good feature w/c Apple got rid of.
5. Old Mac menu dismantled. The old mac menu with an application pull-down menu where you could list *all* of your applications and with a menu where you could list *all* of your control panel items is gone. Replaced by a new and inferior Apple menu. Jobs, the dock is great, but its more suitable as a complement for the desktop, not a complete replacement for the Apple menu.
6. Loss of old applications switcher menu.
7. Loss of ability to label different folders/files different colors. Another good feature thrown out the window for god-knows-why.
8. In the dock, if you place a folder there, you can only navigate 5 sublevels deep. You should be able to navigate the entire hard drive through a folder menu bought up from the dock.
9. Option clicking on a folder should allow you to navigate from that folder via a menu.
10. When is Apple going to realize that tabbed windowing is superior to other styles of maximization? Tabbed windows, as are used in Mozilla, effectively allow all windows to be maximized, but still allow you to see the other apps running.
12. Window management. Arranging windows in ANY OS by Apple is a bitch. You have to manually drag the windows to be a certain size. Hey, Apple, ever heard of tile horizontally/vertically or cascade? Give us predefined ways to arrange windows.
13. When is Apple going to give us the ability to make the universal menu at the top of hte screen hide-away? And when are they going to give us a universal tool-bar to go along with the universal menu? Why does every instance of Finder need its own tool-bar?
I have more suggestions for Apple and anyone else making a GUI here
http://home.rochester.rr.com/tweak/WM-features.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
If I can keep a 24 processor Sun busy for an hour, I can probably figure out how to keep a PC busy, eh?
Dude,
while (1) {
fork();
}
doesn't count.
The KDE equivalent of the open command is kfmclient. Unfortunately, it takes URLs as arguments, not filenames or urls with no protocol prefix. Here's a little script called 'k' that wraps kfmclient with a more friendly interface.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.