Amateur Rocket Launch a Failure; NASA Debuts Shuttle-cam

Anonymous Coward writes "CNN has posted the story of the failure of the amateur rocket launch that was reported in a previous Slashdot story. 'The launch was spectacular and the rocket was performing as planned. However, the rocket experienced motor failure during the flight and the flight was terminated," said Eric Knight, co-leader of the CSXT mission.' NASA is planning to mount a camera on the external fuel tank and broadcast an October 2nd shuttle launch.

Comments

fp

[Frothy Walrus]

Peri-rectal abscess
Also known as: Anal Abscess, Ischio-Rectal Abscess

One gay man - who feared being outed - was too afraid to see a doctor for the severe pain and swelling he felt in his lower rectum. He waited until the infection ruptured up into his abdomen and he collapsed at home with peritonitis.

Intro

A perirectal abscess is an infection that most often begins in your anal or rectal canal and spreads to the fatty tissue surrounding it. The abscess can burrow toward your skin where - if untreated - it can rupture.

What is it?

A perirectal abscess is a bacterial infection that most often begins in the small glands inside your anus. Your pain worsens as the infection grows and spreads to the area around your rectum. A cavity filled with pus (yuck) develops and the skin over it becomes red and swollen. The infection can become so severe that you develop high fevers and other signs of infection.

Diagnosis

Your doctor can usually diagnose the infection just by seeing the swollen, red skin beside your anus. If the abscess is early or burrowing away from your skin (up along your rectum toward your abdomen) your doctor may need to get a CT scan to see the infection.

Symptoms

Early on you may only notice a feeling of pressure in your rectum. As the infection progresses, you will probably feel a tender, hot to the touch, lump under the skin beside your anus.

How is it acquired?
Although it can develop from an injury during sex, this is very rare. By far, the most common cause is a piece of stool that gets caught in your anal glands and starts a small infection that grows and grows. The infection is caused by bacteria in your stool.

How to treat it?

If the infection is caught very early (before a true cavity filled with pus develops), antibiotics and warm soaks might do the trick. But when an abscess has fully developed, you need to have the pus drained. This usually requires surgery to fully eradicate the infection. Antibiotics alone are not sufficient.

If your abscess is large, your doctor may suggest that you have the surgery in an operating room with full anesthesia. This is a good suggestion because draining a large abscess can be quite painful.

If your abscess bursts on its own, you might think that you don't have to go to a doctor because it is already drained. WRONG! When an abscess ruptures on its own, it does not drain enough to heal the infection. A surgeon needs to open the skin wide enough to get out all of the pus.

Once the abscess is drained, you will need to keep it clean and open. This often requires soaking in sitz baths. If the skin closes before the abscess heals from the inside out, another infection will develop. Occassionaly, an abscess does not fully heal after it is drained and a fistula-in-ano develops. You will then need another operation to cure the fistula.

Myths dispelled

Here are some facts to clear up some common misconceptions.

A perirectal abscess is rarely (and I mean rarely) caused by rough sex or toys. And even if a perirectal abscess bursts on its own, it still needs to be evaluated by a doctor.

Prevention

There is no way to prevent it. If you have severe pain in your anus or rectum, your doctor might give you antibiotics to cure the infection before the abscess has a chance to develop. It is, however, very rare to catch the infection at this early stage.

Incubation period

An abscess begins as a tiny infection that gradually grows. Most patients experience increasing pain and swelling for almost a week before going to the doctor.

Sex

A peri-rectal abscess is rarely caused by an injury during sex or an STD.

by Stephen E. Goldstone, M.D., F.A.C.S.

rocket launchers suck

[Anonymous Coward]

what about the amateur BFG launch??

Re:rocket launchers suck

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

resulted in a bad foot injury.

This guy sounds really pissed

[kingkade]

"It won't be for at least another year. We're going to regroup and take a break, but people haven't heard the last from us," CSXT founder Ky Michaelson said.

I feel bad for them, but he sounds like he should be sitting in a large black leather chair penting his fingers or petting a persian cat while saying this :)

Re:This guy sounds really pissed

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagen a beowulf cluster of these!!

Re:This guy sounds really pissed

[Anonymous Coward]

As Nelson would say: *points finger at Michaelson, "Ha ha!"

MOD PARENT UP!!!!!

[News For Turds]

homo

Space tourism setback?

[csmorris]

I suppose, then, that it will be a while before they can beat the Russians by offering space rides for the low, low price of $19,999,999.95.

(yeah yeah karma-- but I just couldn't resist)

In Cae You Were Distracted by "War"

[Anonymous Coward]

Earnings Worries Push Stocks Down for 5th Week in a Row

fter a two-day respite, stocks plunged today as investors were served up more earnings disappointments and more weak economic data. The only good news, if it could be called that, was that the three major stock gauges did not fall far enough to reach new lows.

All three gauges are now down for the fifth consecutive week and it appears that when the month ends on Monday, the Dow and the Nasdaq will be down for the sixth consecutive month, while the S.& P. 500 will be off for five of the last six months. As for the end of the quarter, the S.& P. 500 and the Nasdaq are heading for their third consecutive quarterly decline, while the Dow is poised for its second.

Stand back, I am an engineer.

[Buck2]

Allow me to be the first to say:

SONOFABITCH!!

GODDAMMIT!!

fuck

crap

*sigh*

Re:Stand back, I am an engineer.

[Buck2]

It _is_ "ontopic", moderator.

I am an engineer. Ferreal. I have seen many things fall apart at some critical stage that I, and others, worked on. There is nothing more that you can do other than say the things I have said in the parent post. I attempted to do so in a humorous fashion that might be interesting to other readers with similar experiences or who might be able to empathize, unlike you.

Re:Stand back, I am an engineer.

[Anonymous Coward]

you';ve been moderated by a SlashFaggot, as we like to call them.

See, CmdrTaco has a little army of boy toy faggots at his disposal for this sort of thing.

Re:Stand back, I am an engineer.

[libertarian]

Definitely overheard!

(even from here, a loooonnnng way away)

needed a camera on this flight!

[Anonymous Coward]

how cool would that be? a first hand view of the range officer "terminating" the flight...

So... 'terminated' eh?

[Spazntwich]

Is that what they call 'just letting the fucking thing crash into the ground' nowadays?

Re:So... 'terminated' eh?

[Buck2]

Hah!

Re:So... 'terminated' eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

In rocket launches, "terminated" means the Range Safety Officer sent a command to detonate the rocket.

If a rocket starts to behave poorly, it is ordered to self-destruct instead of "just letting the fucking thing crash into the ground."

Re:So... 'terminated' eh?

[Alsee]

No, "flight was terminated" is rocket scientist jargon for "boom".

-

Re:So... 'terminated' eh?

[Detritus]

The purpose of a flight termination system is to terminate powered flight, so that the rocket, or pieces thereof, land in a safe impact area, instead of Cocoa Beach. A flight termination system can do this by using shaped explosive charges to "unzip" fuel/oxidizer tanks and solid rocket motors. Despite appearances, the goal is not to "blow up" the rocket.

Self-Destruct?

[GigsVT]

motor failure during the flight and the flight was terminated,

I think it's pretty cool if this was some sort of self-destruct mechanism. The article doesn't really say if it self-destructed by itself, or if it was triggered from the ground.

I just wonder if they had to recite "Picard four-seven-alpha-tango" to activate it. :)

Re:Self-Destruct?

[kingkade]

"Thank you for pressing the self-destruct button, the ship will self-destruct in 7 minutes..."

Re:Self-Destruct?

[foolish]

Actually, it probably was.

AFAIK, for flights such as these, even when the flight path has a low population index, you STILL need to have a "remote detonation" capability to keep it for veering off course and crashing into important things/people.

With rockets, since the fuel is itself reactive/explosive, they can usually keep the explosives package fairly small and secure against false authorizations (your "Picard four-seven-alpha-tango).

I'm more bummed that all the instrumentation was destroyed, so it's going to be *very* difficult for them to figure out why the motor barfed. I wonder what they were collecting from ground sensors... It would definitely be neat to see how their avionics package compares to say Carmack's http://www.armadilloaerospace.com lander...

Re:Self-Destruct?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I think you are correct. As far as I know, self destruct mechanisms on rockets are standard fair - the last thing they want is a 500 lb missile (with a range of 50 miles) heading off in a random direction out of control.

Re:Self-Destruct?

[Amazing Quantum Man]

I just wonder if they had to recite "Picard four-seven-alpha-tango" to activate it.

Nah, it was Zero-Zero-Zero-Destruct-Zero.

Of course, they also had to get two other launch crew officers to concur.

Re:Self-Destruct?

[Paul Komarek]

Hey, that's the same combination I use for my luggage!

-Paul Komarek

Re:Self-Destruct?

[ActiveSX]

Where'd you find a lock with "destruct" on it?

Re:Self-Destruct?

[JT27278]

No, I have it on good authority that the motor catoed (exploded, in rocket speak) about 3 seconds into the flight. The rocket did not have any sort of built in self destruct mechanism.

Re:Self-Destruct?

[Anonymous Coward]

secure against false authorizations (your "Picard four-seven-alpha-tango).

Hmmm ... I could have sworn it was Foxtrot-Uniform-Charlie-Kilo ...

But then again I could have been wrong ...

In Case You Were Distracted by "War"

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry, only an idiot would vote for George Bush in the 2004 election.

Re:In Case You Were Distracted by "War"

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello!? What country do you think he's running for president in?

Awesome

[Shadow Wrought]

All I have to say is that I cannot wait for the NASA Shuttle Video on the 2nd. I think its the little things like this that will help to revive popular interest in the space program.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

surely this is why they are doing it...no?

Re:Awesome

[Amazing Quantum Man]

What's the scheduled launch time (EDT)?

Re:Awesome

[Shadow Wrought]

According to Space.com it is scheduled to launch betwixt 1400 and 1800 EDT. the countdown timer is here: http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/launches/next _launch.html

Re:Awesome

[IdahoEv]

If you want to see some other videos taken by this camera, visit our RocketCam Gallery. They're not of the shuttle, but they're pretty inspiring nonetheless.

Too Bad

[ShawnDoc]

Its too bad really, I'd have liked to see a private alternative to NASA. They've grown so bloated and unfocused they couldn't even pull off the space station properly.

Just look at the original proposal and plans, and look what they've cut it back to. All it is a big jobs project. And the Space Shuttle technology is so old they are having to scrounge eBay for old computer parts.

I'm sorry, but it just makes me sick. And we actually think NASA some day will send someone to Mars. Yeah right. We need someone to come along and either replace NASA entirely, or at the very least scare them into cutting back the beaurocracy and actually performing again.

Re:Too Bad

[Verteiron]

It's not entirely NASA's fault. Their budget gets cut more every year. It was Congress that decided not to fund the planned further development of the space station. In doing so, they crippled the station. Fixing this problem involves bitching at congresscritters, not bitching at NASA...

And is it just me, or do most of CNN's stories not display properly under Mozilla?

Re:Too Bad

[Betelgeuse]

And is it just me, or do most of CNN's stories not display properly under Mozilla?

I think it's just you. Works fine for me (using Mozilla 1.1 in KDE).

Re:Too Bad

[csmorris]

They've grown so bloated and unfocused

This is the kind of thing discussed in Space by James Michener. Given the state of our corporate-sponsored democracy, they simply have too many people to please, and too many backs to scratch. The public wants sci-fi extravagance (but not to pay for it), vendors want their equipment used, and plenty of other industries (aerospace, technology, chemical engineering) all want their slice of the pie. All this with an ever-shrinking budget and increasing political micromanagement. Politics as usual in the U.S. government :/

Re:Too Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the state of our corporate-sponsored democracy, they simply have too many people to please, and too many backs to scratch. The public wants sci-fi extravagance (but not to pay for it), vendors want their equipment used, and plenty of other industries (aerospace, technology, chemical engineering) all want their slice of the pie. All this with an ever-shrinking budget and increasing political micromanagement. Politics as usual in the U.S. government :/

A private corporation can cut through all the political BS and get it done using cutting-edge and competative techniques such as paying overeducated but desparate Indian engineers $2.50 an hour and then taking all the credit themselves.

Re:Too Bad

[foolish]

To be fair, it IS partially NASA's fault. One, for having such bad accounting practices that they can't even tell how much they've spent in a given year (amongst other accounting sanfus). Two, for sole sourcing (excuse me, preferred vendors) the the three "Big Three", instead of smaller more efficent companies. ..Three for not having the gumption to actually stand up to Congress/the President and say "Quickly Made, Well Built or Cheap, pick any two" or to privatize the infrastructure and stick to science requirements.

But, I do definitely agree, the porkbarrelling of each of the individual Centers and the requisite Congressional non-tech savvy rulings have caused a majority of the current NASA issues. That and a decade+ of Dan Goldin.

Check out http://www.nasawatch.com
Great site, always interesting scoops.

Re:Too Bad

[pVoid]

That's kind of harsh. It's not like there's someone else out there (anywhere in the world), that's just sending daily shuttles to the moon.

Look at Russia's space program.

Everything is about money these days, and nobody cares about putting up flags on the sea of tranquility... People only care about themselves and launching their Moft sattelites.

Re:Too Bad

[ActiveSX]

I sure hope it works in the browser from the same damn company.

Re:Too Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I have that problem with mozilla under windows. The page renders properly at first, then all of the line wraps disappear and the page suddenly gets very wiiiiide.

Re:Too Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

"
Its too bad really, I'd have liked to see a private alternative to NASA
"

Aw, poor widdle wibertawian saw a pwivate sector failure.

"
They've grown so bloated and unfocused they couldn't even pull off the space station properly.
"

At least they can make rockets that don't die mid flight.

"
And we actually think NASA some day will send someone to Mars. Yeah right.
"

Thanks to conservatives/libertarians such as yourself, nasa has no budget. When we sent men to the moon, democrats were in control, and nasa had a budget. See the correlation? Of course not. You and your libertarian buddies will find some way to blame this on 'the monopoly of state power'.

Re:Too Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

A private corporation can cut through all the political BS and get it done using cutting-edge and competative techniques such as paying overeducated but desparate Indian engineers $2.50 an hour and then taking all the credit themselves.

As much as I hate to say it, there's no profit in launching private space vehicles. It's not like some private company is going to come along and launch a shuttle any cheaper than NASA is doing it now. They ALREADY cut costs and use the lowest bids they can find. How would Boeing or any of the other big aerospace companies do it any cheaper? They're the ones already running that shit.

Re:Too Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Launching rockets into orbit is hard. This amateur failure proves that if nothing else. These people were piggybacking on almost 50 years of technology, but didn't have the budget/talent necessary to pull off even a simple suborbital shot. It's not because they're losers, it's just damn hard and damn expensive.

Building a space station requires dozens of orbital space shots and lots of EVAs, coordinated engineering, etc. Also, the politics constraining NASA are huge, and the compromises that have to be made frustrate the engineers who work there every day (no, I'm not one, but I know some of them).

Other countries have the opportunity to step up to the plate and humiliate the US if it were that easy. China? Nope. ESA? Nope. Russia? (Bankrupt, but still richer than any private or amateur concern and with a very good record of achievement in space) Nope.

So we should scrap the best space program in the world and rebuild over 10-20 years ... why?

Here's a thought. Cut NASA's budget 20%, remove 90% of the oversight, and let them create miracles.

Terminated?

[WankersRevenge]

I love how they say the rocket test was terminated, sort of implying that the rocket packed its bags and went home to collect unemployment when in reality it was a burning metal tube of death, screaming through the atmosphere at the speed of sound looking for some poor schmuck to land on.

Re:Terminated?

[Oggust]

"burning metal tube of death" is actually not a bad name for a rocket! Or maybe "fiberglass tube".

"burning metal tube of death, screaming through the atmosphere at the speed of sound looking for some poor schmuck to land on" isn't bad either, but a bit long winded.

I'll keep it in mind...

There's been a few of names in the same vein lately. "Flying pyramid of death" was a well known one, and at the last LDRS there was one called something like "purple rocket of extremely painful indigestion".

/August.

Question: Fund for Cheney-Rumsfeld Dictatorship

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we set up a fund to buy one-way tickets
to the Moon for the Cheney-Rumsfeld dictatorship
currently residing in the:

The White House?

Michael comes clean

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello. My name is Michael. You might know me as the censor at a Geek news site where we pretend to offer news that matters. Or perhaps you remember me as the guy who hijacked an anti-censorship website. Whatever.

Now is your chance to really know me. I'm going to let you in on my personal life, and the secret of how Jamie, Rob, Jeff, and I all "came" together.

I remember that autumn day so well. It was in our dorm room at Hope College, in Holland, Michigan. Jamie stood there by the bathroom sink, totally naked and shaving his face. He didn't recoil when I went into the bathroom which we also shared with Rob and Jeff--the guys next door.

Jamie and I had been roommates for almost three months now and gotten used to seeing each other strip down, dress, and even "hard".

"Hey, Michael" he said.

I had gotten the chance to look Jamie over a few times. But for some reason that evening I just stood there looking at his scraggly unkempt hair, his bare back, his flabby back muscles flowing down into the lumpy mounds of cellulite which composed his saggy buttocks and thick thighs.

Despite his flab, the sexy swastika tattoo on Jamie's right butt cheek gave him an air of hunky manliness.

"Oh I'm sorry, Jamie" I said without him saying anything despite the fact I had been standing there looking at him.

"I was just ..." he turned and smiled through the shaving cream. "it's OK ... I look at you too, Michael" he said.

I didn't know what to say then. I just moved next to him at the sink and stripped off my shirt to wash.

"Got a hot night tonight, Michael?" he asked.

"Naw just thought I'd go for a swim and pizza later. How 'bout you, Jamie?"

"You keep swimming, Michael, and that hot ass of yours will be the talk of the dorm" he said as he patted my butt. He left his hand there and stroked one ass-cheek a bit.

"You keep doing that and you won't be going anywhere, Jamie" I said half joking. My cock had already began to turn my boxer shorts into a small tent.

He didn't move his hand at all. In fact his fingers moved under the boxers and he stroked bare skin.

Jamie said, "Shit, Michael, I'm getting you hard".

"Yea you get it too hard and you'll have to find a way to get it down again" I said spreading the shaving cream on my face.

His fingers moved between my ass-cheeks and stroked. It felt good ... and then he suddenly stopped.

"Can't now ... maybe when I get back. Will you still be up then, Mikey?"

His hand had moved to my tented crotch and he gently felt my boner when he asked.

"Not if you keep doing that, Jamie"

We joked around like that often of course. But that evening his attention was more then the usual goosing or ass grabbing.

I swam hard laps so my effort and the water would make my cock shrink. But my head was full of the memories of his petting as well as his naked body.

I knew that after my pizza and maybe a beer, I'd be in my bed jacking off as many times as I could before he got back to the room.

I was mid-way through my second go round when the door opened. He looked at me and smiled.

"I hoped you'd be waiting, Michael" he said as he stripped off his shirt and jeans. We didn't speak. Jamie moved to my bed and pulled my covers off.

Jamie pushed my hands over my head and to the bed pipe. I held them as he lifted my legs and curled my body over so his fingers, lips and tongue could take total control of my body.

I closed my eyes and swooned as the sensations I had only fantasized about made me shiver and shake. Jamie's fingers stroked the lips of my ass then moved inside to find my prostate and stroked that bringing me to the point of orgasm. The sperm splattered on my face, chest, and stomach.

But he wasn't through and his cock moved into my ass before it could recover and close tight after the orgasm. It hurt and made me beg him to stop. "Shut up Michael. You're my bitch", growled Jamie.

Jamie ignored my pleas as he moved on top and pounded down into me, sliding his thick cock against the walls of my guts ... and turned me slowly into his bitch. My begging for him to stop became moans and pleas for him to fuck me harder.

I had lost control to his will. He fucked me, turned me over and fucked me some more. Jamie brought me to my hands and knees and fucked me even more, his cock didn't want to stop ... and I didn't want him to stop!

I felt the hands on me as the two guys next door--Rob and Jeff--had moved from the bathroom door where they were watching to join us. He pulled out long enough to allow Rob and Jeff each take their turns.

I was on my back with my legs spread and curled to let each of them move inside. Rob's fingers tortured my nipples, while Jeff abused my cock and balls. My lips encircled their cocks, cocks which wanted to be there.

Jeff, Rob, and Jamie kept using me again and again. Eventually I collapsed in exhausted ecstasy. Somehow I slept, and awoke midday the next day.

Jamie was asleep and our two neighbors--Rob and Jeff--were gone. My ass was sore, but deep inside me I felt a calm peace that I hadn't felt in a very long long time, not since the weekend where as a frosh I was introduced to male on male sex by Timothy, our "dorm daddy". That was the last time I could remember such peace.

Suddenly there was the noise of Jamie jumping from his bed. "You ready, Mikey?" he asked. I turned to see he had gotten out of bed and his cock was rock hard. "We decided to let you rest awhile", Jamie purred. My roommate smiled and then went to the bathroom door. He went inside and returned with the Rob and Jeff. They too still had erections, rock solid erections.

"What the fuh ...", I mumbled to myself.

"It's called Viagra, Michael," said Jamie, "and you are our Viagra bitch". Jeff and Rob stood at attention, casually stroking each others cock. They were like soldiers polishing Viagra hardened gun barrels before battle. They were preparing to jump my bones.

I didn't move away. I wanted to see if it was true what they said about Viagra, and I wanted to find out if it was as wonderful as it was the night before.

All three moved to my bed and resumed to use me again and again until finally I was covered in their sperm. The man-smell of Rob, Jeff, and Jamie, mingled with my own sticky musk. Their cocks, ever hard, kept fucking me until my own body had shot three loads of cum.

It took hours but at the end I was as exhausted, calm, peaceful and satisfied as I had been the night before.

My nickname is now "VB" and you know what that stands for. Several of the guys on our dorm floor knew and when others asked, more found out. Yes, I was, and still am, Michael, the Viagra Bitch.

Secret??

[Anonymous Coward]

How "secret" can this location be if there's a picture of the place right at the beggining of the article?

Re:Secret??

[Anonymous Coward]

As soon as I saw that photo, I immediately began photographing all points from all perspectives in the Nevada desert, and I am sad to announce that there are at least 2^64 possible locations that perfectly fit the provided image. It'll take distributed.net at least four years to brute force the launch site.

New business plan?

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Fail in attempt to set rocketry record.
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[GoatPigSheep]

I personally have a problem with the recent amateur rocket craze. What would happen if a launch failed because Joe Blow failed physics and got the angle of his rocket wrong and it hit a building somewhere and killed a bunch of people? It won't be long before this happens.

Nasa employs some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world and I would not trust anyone else to be launching rockets in to the sky. I believe NASA should have a monopoly on space travel as they are the only ones who seem to get it right.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[RatBastard]

That's why you launch these things from remote locations! As for NASA, you do remember the Metric-English Standard conversion debacle that resulted in the crashing of a orbital mars probe, don't you?

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[SquadBoy]

Don't feed the trolls. :)

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

Launching things into SPACE isnt helped dramatically by moving the launch into a remote place. The rocket is going to orbit around the planet, and an error at a later time could cause a crash anywhere. Nasa does a good job (so far?) of calculating where these things land.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[RealAlaskan]

Nasa employs some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world ...

That's the same bunch who screwed up metric --> english conversion and crashed a martian lander, right?

I believe NASA should have a monopoly on space travel as they are the only ones who seem to get it right.

I hope that was a joke, but it didn't look like one. Maybe your irony and sarcasm was too subtle for me.

If enough of the intellect-impared were to take that seriously, we'd outlaw commercial aviation because someone might might fly a plane into a building. We'd outlaw driving cars for the same reason. We'd outlaw cooking because you might burn down the neighborhood.

``We'd outlaw commercial aviation ...'' Hmmm. Well, maybe you weren't joking. There are a lot of intellect-impared people about nowadays.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[macdaddy357]

Don't believe that hoax excuse. Martians shot down Mars Climate Orbiter. It's on a news website. They couldn't print it if it wasn't true!

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't feed the trolls.

I guess his sig ( if you mod me up I will introduce you to my sister ) should have been a tipoff, huh?

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[kindbud]

Pretty much the same thing that would happen if an aged driver had a heart attack and crashed his car into a Department of Motor Vehicles service facility.

Or if a restaurant exploded because of a faulty natural gas valve.

Or if an airliner had a mechanical problem that caused it to crash into a suburban neighborhood.

Or if a cosmetic medical device caused unforseen side effects later on.

Liability insurance, my man. Liability insurance.

Guess who doesn't have to have it: NASA
Guess who doesn't have to pay if they fuck up: NASA
Guess who picks up the tab if they do: you and me

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Vellmont]

That's exactly why they do this in the black rock desert. The playa is the main part, and is 27 miles long, and 12 miles wide of flat dry lake bed that's completely baren. It's nearly surrounded by mountains. There's no buildings to hit for quite a distance. The area surrounding it is very sparsely populated. I guess there's a small chance a rocket would hit a building on re-entry. I wouldn't know how to calculate it, but given the large baren area it has to be almost nill.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[foolish]

You do understand that there are strict limitations to where/when/how these tests are performed? That you need literally TONS of FAA waivers, claims, insurance, etc. and sometimes years of buck-passing before the larger rockets can even get an attempt at a launch date?

Do you think that being at NASA is the only way people can learn about modern aerospace engineering, that somehow they are magically endowed with special knowledge that hasn't been in the public domain for at least 50 years?

And the ESA, RSA, the Australians, the Indian space ministry and the Chinese seem to all be doing pretty good jobs as well... not to mention the countless other enthusiasts and engineers who've been studying rockets for a few decades.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

You are right. Rocket accidents cause horrible injuries.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[jmoriarty]

Nasa employs some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world and I would not trust anyone else to be launching rockets in to the sky. I believe NASA should have a monopoly on space travel as they are the only ones who seem to get it right.

Oh? Feet != Meters

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Derleth]

I believe NASA should have a monopoly on space travel as they are the only ones who seem to get it right.

So, Challenger didn't blow up a little ways above the Atlantic, then? It didn't shower bits of debris over the ocean? The entire crew, including a schoolteacher, didn't die in that eminently preventable accident? The Challenger Disaster was due, plain and simple, to the gross incompetence of those in charge. They shouldn't have launched when it was so cold, they shouldn't have failed to make sure the O-Rings would hold, and they damn well should have listened to the people who told them these things beforehand.

I won't even mention the Polar Lander. A fucking faliure to convert to metric is not excusable!

NASA deserves what it gets. Give me amateur rocketry, because NASA couldn't do it to save their asses.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[RebelTycoon]

Back under your bridge Troll!

20 seconds....

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[JordoCrouse]

Nasa employs some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world ...

That's the same bunch who screwed up metric --> english conversion and crashed a martian lander, right?

Boeing employs some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world....

Thats the same bunch who had a hydraulic system fail and a plane crashed right?

NASA has launched more missions than anybody else, and they have had more successful missions that any body else. They have also had more failures than anyone else, but thats thanks to a little thing called the law of averages.

Face it, NASA has been sending things in the sky for 40 straight years now. In all that time, they landed on the moon, helped fly four craft to the farthest reaches of the solar system, landed 3 successful missions on Mars, and have helped run two successful space stations.

All this, with only 7 astronauts lost. How many people do you spposed died in the first 40 years of aviation? How about the first 40 years of automobiles?

So don't give me any of this "NASA can't even even get metric conversion right" crap. For the last four decades, NASA has regularly pulled off shit that other countries only dream of.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

You are user #949 and still can't spot a troll?

slow learner, very slow.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[hoytt]

If you know all variables and I'm sure NASA does than it's fairly simply Physics. Since the speed of the rocket goes no where towards c, you can keep using Newtonian Mechanics. I remember an exercise in my Physics book where we had to calculate where stages 1,2,3 of a rocket would fall.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[dougmc]

All this, with only 7 astronauts lost.

NASA has lost more than seven astronauts. Seven died in Challenger, and I'm not aware of any others actually dying in a spacecraft in flight, but three died in Apollo 1, for example. And I suspect that more have died in plane crashes and the like while doing testing and such.

Still, a remarkably good safety record.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[dchamp]

Um... That's why they launched, or attempted to launch it in the middle of a dry lake bed in the desert.

The rocket is designed to travel 50 or 60 miles straight up (more or less). Even if it went haywire and flew 60 mile horizontally, it would probably just smash into a cactus. I mean, how many people live within 60 miles of a dry lake bed?

-dc

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

I won't even mention the Polar Lander. A fucking faliure to convert to metric is not excusable!

Buddy, have you every landed a spacecraft on Mars?

If not, don't be so fucking glib about the mistakes of people who have.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[JordoCrouse]

but three died in Apollo 1 [nasa.gov]

Doh - forgot about that one. Thanks.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

You bloody American! Europe has a superior presence in space.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Oggust]

True in principle, but this was not an orbital attempt, it was just going to go up into space (About 62 miles IIRC), and then come down again. And land in the same desert.

But in general, I know(*) the hardships Ky had to go thru to get all the numerous permits he needed to get to launch, and it's a crying shame that this kind of thing is so hard to do. And in America of all places. It's just weird that an amateur rocketeer, doing cool, new things, need to demonstrate having taken so many safety measures, when any shmoe can drive a car or fly an aircraft which is way more (potentially) destructive with impunity.

Now, I can certainly see that the FAA (or whomever) may want to limit "any yahoo" do to this, but that's just not the case here. Ky and many other serious amateurs have been doing this for a long time, and they've done a pretty good job. The bar is just at the wrong level.

Damn shame it failed, good luck next time, Ky!

(*) Not really, but I've heard him talk about it over a couple of beers, and it sounded pretty bad.

/August.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[John Carmack]

> NASA has launched more missions than anybody else

NASA has launched more manned missions than anybody else, but the Russians have launched nearly TEN TIMES as many space mission.

This is when someone adds "Yeah they had to, because their electronics suck, so they need to replace their sats more often", but that doesn't change the point about launches.

John Carmack

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Alsee]

Well obviously we need to outlaw cars, restaurants, airliners, and medical devices.

not collecting stamps is a hobby

Yes! I finnaly completed my collection! I don't have ANY of them!

-

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Alsee]

Feet != Meters

Well duhhh! Everyone knows a meter equals a yard, not a foot!

-

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

That *is* a rather unexcusable mistake no matter how many people participated in that vast effort.
The entire project should have been in metric.

For that matter, the american school system should have converted to metric years ago, but that's an entirely different problem.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

"
I personally have a problem with the recent amateur rocket craze. What would happen if a launch failed because Joe Blow failed physics and got the angle of his rocket wrong and it hit a building somewhere and killed a bunch of people? It won't be long before this happens.
"

The sad part is, Libertarians actually look forward to this!

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

"Yes! I finnaly completed my collection! I don't have ANY of them!"

How do you mail things, then?

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you don't get it. Going all metric wouldn't necessarily have prevented it. The same mistake could have occured if solely metric units were used. The problem wasn't the choice of units.

That *is* a rather unexcusable mistake...

Do you even know what the "unexcusable" mistake was?

The problem with Mars Polar Lander occured because Lockheed Martin send a file containing a table of information to NASA in which, basically, the units weren't labeled. (This is unfortunately actually not a rare practice among programmers, because handling units in computer codes is usually a pain in the ass.) Lockheed used imperial units, and someone at NASA assumed they were in metric.

The problem wasn't that someone at NASA was too dumb to convert between pounds and newtons. The problem was that someone at Lockheed didn't appropriately label units, and someone else made an incorrect assumption about what the units were.
The same thing could have happened if Lockheed had listed the forces in the file in milli-newtons, and the guy at NASA assumed in was in newtons. The use of Imperial unots was not the problem.

The miscalculation was by a very small amount. It couldn't be detected until the spacecraft was deep within Mar's gravity well. It was too late to correect for.

The deep reason for the problem, though, was severe underfunding. The project did not have enough people to do proper testing, and corners got cut. The level of testing is much better for the rovers flying to Mars next year.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you mail things, then?

I already mailed everything I had, got nothing left.
How else do you think I managed to complete my collection?

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Dirtside]

All this, with only 7 astronauts lost.

I'm sure that astronauts Roger Chafee, Charles Bassett, Gus Grissom, Elliot See, Edward White, Clifton Williams, David Griggs, and Robert Overmyr would be glad to know that you're so ignorant of our space program's history, the only fatalities you know of are the Challenger explosion.

Re:amateur rocketetry is irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Challenger blew up. Other stuff messed up too.

What about the other 112 shuttle missions that succeeded without a hitch? What about the recons with just about every planet in the solar system that worked?

What about the Chinese and Indian rockets that have repeatedly blown up on the launchpad?

If you were going to launch something tomorrow, who would you go with? Personally I'd have ESA and NASA on my shortlist and to hell with everybody else.

Calling John Carmack!

[RatBastard]

John! When is Armadillo Aerospace going to show these n00bs how it's done? Screw Doom 3, get your ass to Mars!

Re:Calling John Carmack!

[Longinus]

Or better yet, how about the Experimental Rocket Propulsion Society, a bunch of Linux users who's entire project (unlike Carmack's extremely pricey endevours) are open source. You can check out their OpenVTVL software for "in-flight control of vertical takeoff vertical landing (VTVL) model aircraft using propellers or rocket motors in a differential-thrust configuration" at SourceForge as well as several cool videos of their launches at their homepage.

These guys doing what Carmack is with a fraction of the money.

Re:Calling John Carmack!

[Anonymous Coward]

how about the Experimental Rocket Propulsion Society [erps.org], a bunch of Linux users who's entire project (unlike Carmack's extremely pricey endevours) are open source.

Wow! It's open source! That must mean it'll be on it's way to proxima centauri in a year or two. Open source is the best for everything.

Re:Calling John Carmack!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah and also a fraction of the quality and a fraction of the documentation.

Re:Calling John Carmack!

[Oggust]

From what I've seen these guys (Armadillo Aerospace (Carmack et al.) and ERPS) are nowhere near the kind of adversaries you kind of make it sound like. A lot of info is routinely shared and they seem to be getting along really well.

/August.

Re:Calling John Carmack!

[Longinus]

Absolutely correct. In fact, Carmack is listed as a dev on their SourceForge project and uses the ERPS's mailing list.

Re:Calling John Carmack!

[Dirtside]

Screw Doom 3, get your ass to Mars!

Man, what do you think Doom 3 is ABOUT? That's why Carmack is doing this rocketry stuff -- he needs to have firsthand research about Martian military installations, so that Doom 3 will be realistic!

Cameras Lie

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I have seen UFO's on NASA TV!

Don't let the man lie to you.

ALIENS ARE REAL!

they are here to eat our brains!

have a good weekend!

Summer dampness, summer heat

[Anonymous Coward]

Hemos and I, CmdrTaco, were still teens. We were just getting ready for the end of summer. We had started out the week with a campout down by the pond. It was a warm night and we seldom slept early. Hemos and I had played all the young boy games and discovered jerking off together last summer. Now we seldom lost a chance to take a squirt.

Hemos was telling me, CmdrTaco, a story of how his older brother Michael had let a kid we both knew give him a blowjob. Michael said he gave JonKatz a ride home from school and was really horny. He said JonKatz could not stop looking at the bulge in his shorts. Michael said it took some real convincing but he got him to take his cock in his mouth and suck it exactly like his other bitch Jamie did.

I told Hemos he was full of shit that I knew JonKatz and that he didn't look queer. Hemos said his brother said you could never tell who had queer genes in them, but guys who are willing to suck usually who do it. I didn't believe him but the story made me real hard. Hemos had been constantly horny for the last year.

"CmdrTaco, you want to suck my dick?" Hemos asked, me. "No way, asshole, that thing would not fit in my mouth." said. "Why not?" he asked. "I'm not gonna put a cock in my mouth and be known as a queer like JonKatz," I told him. "You would," he assured me. "You might have the queer genes. And I promise I won't cum in your mouth," he added quickly.

I just looked at him, not believing what he wanted me to do. I just shook my head, "You are crazy, dude." He looked at me and said, " You can't tell me you don't want to find out what its like." I said quickly, "Not me, you want one go find JonKatz." He smiled as he looked down at his naked hard cock and then up at me, "Maybe I might find JonKatz for a blowjob, but he's not here and you are, CmdrTaco."

He pumped his cock a few strokes and paused, "Why don't you just try it? I'll put my jockeys back on and you can just put it in your mouth and jerk me off. Any cum will go in my jockeys and your lips won't touch any skin." he added, arguing like he always did.

"Since you won't really be sucking a cock, it won't be queer, and if you don't like it, we can stop," he pleaded. I looked down at Hemos's cock and my face turned red as I realized he had me thinking about sucking his cock. Both of us knew that sucking dick was sucking dick. I knew that if I took his cock in my mouth even covered with his jockey shorts that he would have me do it again.

I looked at Hemos's hard dick. I crossed the line when I said, "put your shorts on it." He quickly grabbed his shorts and pulled them over his rigid cock, "Shit yea, I can't wait. Go for it CmdrTaco." I knelt down between his legs as he sat on the ground cloth. I put my mouth over the head of his cock through his shorts. Hemos said, "Wait I want to know what a blow job feels like and he started taking his shorts back off.

I watched his four-inch cock plop back against his plump stomach as he removed his shorts. I said, "No way, unless you put them on I'm not gonna touch your cock." Hemos started looking around in the tent and came out with a sheer clothe bandana. "How bout this? It will be more like a blowjob and it still will be as if you're not." He wanted me to actually put a bandana covered cock in my mouth yet he was telling me it would not be queer. I had seen Hemos hard before, but this was different. His cock was rock hard and strained in the bandana. I didn't look at Hemos's face as I knelt between his legs again. I became acutely aware of the wetness where precum had soaked through the thin cloth as my mouth covered the place at the tip of his cock. Hemos was waiting, so I lowered my mouth, and I raised my eyes to Hemos's face and I felt his cock twitching and jumping in anticipation.

I turned my attention to his cock and I felt the wetness as I forced out more precum from the cock head in my mouth. I grasped his shaft and started to jerk him off with just the cloth-covered head in my mouth. I held his cock at the base as I continued bobbing my head and sucking on his cock. The slow sucking rhythm caused him to reach the edge. He was shooting and his cum was going into my mouth. The cloth was so wet that it did not slow down the spurts of cum in my mouth I never had time to think about or to turn away before a volley of jism shot through the cloth. Cum just flowed into my mouth and I don't know why I continued to pump his cock.

Hemos was silent as I release his cock from my mouth. He said, "See, CmdrTaco, the cloth did the job and all the cum was captured." There was no way to describe how it felt to suck his dick, but it had been unbelievable. "Well do you have the queer gene? Do you like to suck dick? Want to try it like JonKatz did without the cloth?" Hemos asked. I actually got kind of a thrill and yet was embarrassed that I must have swallowed his cum. I never remember spitting it out.

I told him that the experience had been unbelievable but that I would not do it again. I was glad that I had gone down on Hemos and I knew I would do it again, though I couldn't tell him that. It was less than an hour when he started begging me to do it again. That was fine by me. I think he knew that I was willing. I guess my reluctance was gone, because I didn't have any trouble going down on Hemos again. The second time sucking his dick was easier for me. Hemos started asking me what it felt like while I sucked him. While I was bobbing up and down, with a little more action, Hemos asked me if I wanted to remove the cloth. He said that it was just he and I and he would never tell anyone. He said it was just two dudes experimenting and that he was just joking about the queer genes. I actually wanted to do it yet I was not prepared to go that far. Hemos knew that I liked to suck his cock, yet he knew that it would mean admitting that I was queer if I admitted it and he knew that I wouldn't do that. He had just completed what it took to persuade me to go down on him that night.

The next week Hemos was busy all the time and he didn't talk about what we had done. I thought he was ashamed and I even noticed that he would get hard sometimes while we hung out together. But would always say he had better leave. I thought that he did not want to be embarrassed around me. It was about a week later when I found why he would leave. He told me that he had come home from our trip and that JonKatz was at his house with his brother. He said that he watched him give Michael a blowjob. He said that JonKatz was always trying to get Michael to let him suck him off again, so he said he let him. Now he sucks Michael off all the time. Hemos said after he saw JonKatz go down on his older brother. He looked at me and said "Shit JonKatz sucked me too. Boy it felt good." He smiled and said, "Almost as good as you suck." Hemos was good at getting me to do whatever he wanted. There was no denying I got off on sucking him and I knew what he wanted me, CmdrTaco, to do next.

Fuel and funds?

[phorm]

I myself am wondering how these people are funded. I imaging that building a 511lb space-capable (supposedly, not today though) rocket probably takes quite a fair bit of money

Would also be interesting to know how they got rocket fuel. I'd assume that NASA or somebody is contributing (is it still amature if they do), as this stuff isn't really available at your nearest Esso station, although at one time Jet fuel was more publicly available.

Preparing funds for next year: "Sir, have you got any bottles for recycling?" - phorm

Re:Fuel and funds?

[JohnFluxx]

Take some wax candles, break up the hydrocarbons into small pieces until you get rocket fuel...

Re:Fuel and funds?

[Amazing Quantum Man]

Would also be interesting to know how they got rocket fuel. I'd assume that NASA or somebody is contributing (is it still amature if they do), as this stuff isn't really available at your nearest Esso station, although at one time Jet fuel was more publicly available.


RTFA. They used solids. The mixture isn't that difficult, curing them is the hard part.

Re:Fuel and funds?

[JT27278]

Solid rocket propellant was used for CSXT's space shot and is not difficult for the amateur to make (well maybe a little harder than CSXT thought..) The required chemicals are availble to the general public, though a federal explosives user permit from the is required in most cases. The CSXT team did have some corporate sponsorship, though I'm guessing that the bulk of the money came right out of the team's pockets. I don't know the details for this particular attempt, but similar attempts in the past have cost about $20,000.

Re:Fuel and funds?

[John Carmack]

> but similar attempts in the past have cost about $20,000

Ky has said it cost over $250,000. Just building the rocket and motor probably cost $20k, but everything else adds up.

John Carmack

Re:Fuel and funds?

[Anonymous Coward]

"
Take some wax candles,
_break up the hydrocarbons into small pieces until you get rocket fuel..._
"

Hmm. There was an anecdote like this I heard on CarTalk once... 3 easy steps to increase fuel efficiency; Step 1: open hood. Step 2: remove engine

you are a dumbass

[Anonymous Coward]

read subj, dumbass

How could an amateur rocket fail?

[intermodal]

I mean, it's not rocket science...oh, wait...

Re:How could an amateur rocket fail?

[Syncdata]

I mean, it's not rocket science...oh, wait... I hereby propose an immediate moratorium on all "It's not rocket science" jokes when posting to articles involving NASA, spaceflight, or space itself.
It's too easy people.

Re:How could an amateur rocket fail?

[isorox]

How could an amateur rocket fail?

Maybe they confused feet and metres?

Secret Nevada location?

[sulli]

From the picture it appears that they launched not far from where Black Rock City was a few short weeks ago.

Who else wonders about sabotage?

[burgburgburg]

While I realize that rocket science is ... rocket science, I still wonder if anyone else finds the raft of unsuccessful launches by the non-majors to be suspicious. That perhaps one or more of the successful launchers, wanting to protect their market, defend the upper atmosphere, hide something or all of the above, would take some direct action to ensure failure.

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can have this little tin hat. Give to those more needy than you, I say.

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[Paul Komarek]

"Rockets" are hard to get right. If they weren't, everyone would have ICBMs by now.

-Paul

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[Anne_Nonymous]

Perhaps this alleged "atmosphere" doesn't exist at all, and they simply crashed into the big blue ceiling.

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[TheAwfulTruth]

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, it is a little more complicated to get a large rocket make it into space than just scaling up an Estes Big Bertha by strapping 3 D engines on it.

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[dirkdidit]

I do not recommend that anyone try strapping 3-D sized engines on to a Big Bertha rocket. I was in the same science class a few years ago with a kid who thought it'd be funny to see how high it went with 3 D engines. It went about 10 feet up, started to fall and then took off again going horizontal and not vertical. Well about 300 feet later it hit a parked car, which happened to belong to my science teacher. Needless to say my teacher wasn't too happy after that incident.

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[Anonymous Coward]

aw, poor little libertarian can't fathom how the magical market could not succeed at all things, so he starts imagining conspiracies where nasa sabotages private rockets.

you make me sick!

Re:Who else wonders about sabotage?

[Anonymous Coward]

heh

Whaddya mean "failure"?

[Tablizer]

The Darwin Awards Club is calling it a "promising success".

Motto: "To boldly die like no man has died before" :-)

Dr. Claw

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember the Inspector Gadget cartoon?

nasa tv only

[(startx)]

From the article, it looks like this is going to be nasa tv only. Does anyone want to record/webcast this for those of us w/o all the extra channels?

Re:nasa tv only

[Niles_Stonne]

When I submitted the article (yeah, little bit of bitterness), I added the following link:

Web Sources for NASA TV, or http://www.nasa.gov/ntv/ntvweb.html for the link-fearing.

By this same argument...

[amstrad]

...open source software is bound to fail and we should all use Microsoft software since they employ some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world and I would not trust anyone else to be writing operating systems to control my servers.

Re:By this same argument...

[Anonymous Coward]

yes thats true.

Re:By this same argument...

[Anonymous Coward]

" ...open source software is bound to fail and we should all use Microsoft software since they employ some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world and I would not trust anyone else to be writing operating systems to control my servers."

You've got it backward. The private (like microsoft) rocket crashed. The public (like open source) rockets actually do what they are supposed to. most of the time.

Yet another NASA sabotage?

[wackybrit]

In 1964, John F Kennedy stood upon the podium near to the Washington monument and made a promise that the United States would land the first man on the moon. He established NASA by royal charter and proclaimed 'Americans have held out against all odds to be as powerful as we are today. We will do it again. No matter what we have to do, we will land on the moon.' And so a nation was charged up, ready to reach the stars. NASA was the group to do it.

Unfortunately JFK wasn't joking. NASA was covered under similar laws to the federal police, in that they could enact 'emergency laws' giving them special legal powers in special situations. These included sabotage, or the ability to murder those who stood in the way of a moon landing.

NASA is now less powerful and receives less funding, but the laws are still in place. Even Bush is aware that NASA often sabotages its own missions, including the 1993 Mars Observer mission.

NASA knows what's going on on Mars, the documentary 'Mission To Mars' proves it. They don't want anyone getting there first.

Don't bother trying any more, amateurs.. NASA will keep your feet on the ground.

Re:Yet another NASA sabotage?

[imnoteddy]

In 1964, John F Kennedy stood upon the podium...

Neat trick, considering he died in 1963.

Re:Yet another NASA sabotage?

[mesocyclone]

I'm impressed, since JFK was killed Nov 22, 1963! I remember that day well - I was in high school at the time.

Re:Yet another NASA sabotage?

[CyberDave]

I sure hope you mean 1960, and not 1964. Wasn't Kennedy assassinated in 1963?

CyberDave

Re:Yet another NASA sabotage?

[aardvarkjoe]

When people as get as old as you, it's common for them to forget dates. Don't worry too much about it. Have your grandchildren put you in a home where you can longer interject your log^H^H^H misconceptions into intelligent conversation.

Re:Yet another NASA sabotage?

[mesocyclone]

Hey aardvark...

It appears that young people like you don't read too well. Us old folks screwed up the school systems, ya know.

I had the date right: Nov 22, 1963. The original poster was wrong.

What they need is a PR expert

[Tablizer]

"Our experiment to study the smoke and debri dissapation patterns of atmospheric explosions has been a complete success!"

it's still damn fast

[morcheeba]

not to nitpick, but it's annoying when media messes up simple numbers because it makes me wonder if either (a) they just believe everything they're told without checking it or (b) they're getting sloppy with their facts...

The Civilian Space eXploration Team (CSXT) had designed the unmanned Primera rocket to reach a height of more than 60 miles. ... The Primera was expected to reach its lofty goal within 90 seconds, which would have broken CSXT's previous world record for amateur rocket speed of 3,205 mph.

Simple math says 60 miles in 90 seconds is 2400 mph, and 2400 mph is less than 3205 mph.

Re:it's still damn fast

[A. Pemsel (FreEPOC)]

Argh!
And I say 2400 mph is the average speed, 3205 the claimed max speed.

Re:it's still damn fast

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called acceleration. Read a physics book sometime.

Re:it's still damn fast

[morcheeba]

Argh! You're right. Keyboard in fast forward, brain in reverse. I forgot the rather major fact that, at maximum altitude, the speed is zero. (otherwise, it wouldn't be maximum altitude!). Sorry; didn't mean it as a troll. And, yes, I was literally a rocket scientist (scary!)

Re:it's still damn fast

[Anonymous Coward]

that's 60 miles perpendicular to the surface of the earth. because of wind resistance, the rocket takes a slightly angled vertical trajectory.

Re:it's still damn fast

[Osty]

The Civilian Space eXploration Team (CSXT) had designed the unmanned Primera rocket to reach a height of more than 60 miles. ... The Primera was expected to reach its lofty goal within 90 seconds, which would have broken CSXT's previous world record for amateur rocket speed of 3,205 mph.

Simple math says 60 miles in 90 seconds is 2400 mph, and 2400 mph is less than 3205 mph.

Several things:

1. Notice they say the goal is more than 60 miles. 60 miles would be the lower limit, but it sounds like they're aiming for higher.
2. The speed of 3,205 mph is their previous record.
3. There's no mention of the flight time or distance that set the previous record, only that it was measured at a maximum of 3,205 mph.
4. 90 seconds is an upper bound on the flight time. With a goal of 60 miles at 3,205mph, that means a flight time of roughly 67.4 seconds.
5. Most importantly, the rocket will not start at 3,205 mph. It has to accelerate up to that, probably only reaching it near the very end of its flight. Without knowing the acceleration rate of the rocket (which itself may not even be constant), there's nothing more you can do here.

In short, there's not enough information here to do the proper math. Your "simple" math is just that -- "simple", and not applicable.

Re:it's still damn fast

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to pick nits, but isn't it at a speed of zero at minimum altitude (when it's on the ground) and maximum speed at maximum altitude (when it's hurtling around the earth)?

Re:it's still damn fast

[Dr. JJJ]

There are two factors to consider here:

1. The space boundary is defined to be 60 nautical miles. One nautical mile = 1.15 statute miles.
2. Your math assumes that the rocket keeps a constant speed throughout the journey; this is not the case. The CSXT rocket motor was to burn entirely out in a mere 15 seconds. From thence onward it merely coasts to space!

I'm slow.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was back a-ways trolling in the BSD Unix story for a couple minutes. I came back to slashdot.org's front page and saw this rocket story and noticed it had only 2 trolls. I entered and instead saw over 60 trolls. Great job, trolls.

One ring to bind them, one ring to rule them, one ring to fuck them in the ass! We are the Trolls of Slashdot! Hur-Rah!

Whitey on the Moon...

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't resist.. Gil Scott-Heron

Whitey on the moon

Re:Whitey on the Moon...

[Anonymous Coward]

Send 'em back to Africa.

Setbacks are only to be expected ...

[dzym]

NASA had their share of setbacks ... Apollo 1, Apollo 13, Challenger, recent Mars probes ... hell the Boeing Delta 3 rocket that blew up on a launch back in 1998.

To accomplish something major like this setbacks (sometimes expensive) are inevitable.

Re:Setbacks are only to be expected ...

[Anonymous Coward]

And there was also Liberty Bell 7 and NASA's many failed rocket tests at first. And of course, in the case of Apollo I, the setback was loss of human life. And the case of Apollo I never would've happened if they had known that the Soviets unfortunately had a similar incident happen to them. But this of course was all information that was kept behind the iron curtain. This emphasizes the inportance of not only learning from your mistakes in such cases, but the importance of sharing information. It's important to consider these when loss of life and much money can happen. Setbacks can occur, but it is highly imporatant to prevent them from happening.

First Strong Bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean...come on, fhqhwgads! It's not rocket science.

A Moon landing conspiracy theorist speaks out!

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally NASA is installing cameras on their Shuttle so we have proof it actually goes into space!

If they only had done that for Apollo!

Wait! I'm an idiot! I'm a no-Moon landing moron!!

False Alarm

[Netw0rkAssh0liates]

Dear users of Network Associates's Internet,

Over the past couple months, Network Associates has been designing and testing it's latest network security technology with the help of Amateur Rocketeer John Carmack. We are pleased to announce the correction in our latest rocket launch has been successful and we are now ready to install our Cracker-counter-attack-anti-terrorist-technology into your local City Hall with Power Of Attorney and Power Of Death By Rocket Granted to your District Attorney. We have chosen this measure of defense due to the overwhelming success of approval of our latest poll on www.msdn.com. Any individual or any person observed or otherwise detected with our without "probable cause" and not limited to any probable cause, using any un-regulated operating system including, but not limited to Linux and any such un-regulated software application in violation of or in direct competition with the DMCA shall be sacked off Network Associates's Internet Connection(see clause 179.562, "Fair Use Privileges of DataLink Networks). This new measure has been adoped by all States with exception to Montana and Arizona. I thankyou for your time and participation in the benefit of our country, our people, and our freedom.

Sincerily,
Bob Grover (RBGceqT, 1968).

So you're saying...

[Fortyseven]

...nobody can be as good as NASA therefore nobody but NASA should be allowed to launch. But someone can't get as good as NASA because they can't launch...because they aren't as good as NASA...

Great plan, Mr. Heller, but even NASA had to start fresh at one point, and even today they fuck up now and then.

A far better plan would be to assign a voluntary 'chaperone' in the form of an experienced NASA representive work with these people and look things over until he's certain they'd be fine on their own.

Its not space... but close

[Brandon30X]

They havnt made it to space yet, but at least their rockets dont explode. Check out this amatuer rocket effort. They have some great videos from outside of their LV1 rocket. PSAS

Re:Its not space... but close

[OpalMirror]

Us folks on the PSAS team just launch-tested our next airframe, LV2. We have one silly video of this launch where the camera gets blown over at http://psas.pdx.edu . In April we hope to have video from onboard our next planned flight. This will feature the new avionics package.

Failure: is it an option?

[DA_MAN_DA_MYTH]

I wonder if this has any affect on Rocket Guy's, AKA Brian Walker, thinking... Bad things can happen.

It'll be too obvious.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll get strait to the point...

I know many people don't like much of Bush's Administration. We all have our likes and dis-likes. You, however, don't want them to reach the moon in a competitive spectacle as did our late John F. Kennedy. I can't over-look the point that you want to fly to the moon. James Trafficant always asked Congress to "BEAM ME UP!" Yeah, some people in the United States LLC's "Congress" know of alternative and more effective and economical travel. I just think you will not get realy far in trying to reach the moon, before Cheney and Rumsfeld, because you are a complete and utter dork and are going to barter with NASA or some other rocketeering group whether they have any tickets cheeper than one-way; implying your attempt to destroy the moon. They'll figure it out...

External camera.

[Mindjiver]

I remember seeing a videoclip from an external camera launch of a rocket into space. It was one of the coolest things I have ever seen on TV. Anyone else remeber this? Maybe someone could point to a link containing the video.

Re:External camera.

[mijok]

The Mars Odyssey had one. I saw it live on BBC and it was awesome but they were stupid enough to most of the time fill 2/3 of the screen with pictures from the studio where they iterviewed some expert at the same time. I did find it on the web later as well but can't remember where but try google now that you know the name of the mission.

Re:External camera.

[Mindjiver]

Thanks.. I'll try to find a clip of it..

According to plan?

[ndogg]

The launch was spectacular and the rocket was performing as planned. However, the rocket experienced motor failure during the flight and the flight was terminated

Ah, yes, it performed according to plan just like my motherboard's IDE controller when it died on me and I had to get a new motherboard, and turn this one into a network computer. Yup, all according to plan...

Who's that guy skulking off to the side?

[Syncdata]

You know, the one smoking a cigarette. Is he even supposed to be here?

The Power of Open Source

[Anonymous Coward]

Since it is Free Software you can fix it yourself! You have no reason to complain -- get to work!

*** Announcement ***

[Anonymous Coward]

The United States Government, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Israel, has announced new holding cells for 'domestic terrorists' on Moon Colony Alpha. Inmates will not be provided with oxygen, so it is recommended that they hold their breath. Thank you, The President.

I Was There

[Dr. JJJ]

I helped out at this launch attempt as part of the recovery team and I can tell you the following:

Amateur rocketry, like all rocketry, is used to failure

If you've met or heard of Ky, you'd realize that he has had plenty of successes and failures to deal with. And Ky is just the CEO of sorts to what amounts to a massively talented technical team. Having gotten the rocket off the ground was an accomplishment itself; the FAA puts enormous safety restrictions on the launch, of which very few are satisfied at any given moment.

The failure itself wasn't that dangerous either. The rocket did not explode like a fireball. It just made a sort of "pop" sound and broke into pieces. The selection of the launch site has a lot to do with ensuring that such pieces don't come down and harm anyone.

PR for NASA...

[singularity]

Strapping a camera for a shuttle launch is not going to cost NASA too much in the grand scheme of things.

For an agency that is in desperate need of government funding, however, I think it is a wonderful idea.

Little things like the camera will only get people interested in space and science and bring public support for NASA.

I cannot wait to see the video. The animation was great as it was.

Now I just need to find a friend with a true satellite dish. A web-cast days later will not be the same.

Re:PR for NASA...

[adolf]

Why wait until "days later" for a webcast?

You can watch NASA TV live every day, for free.

Though you'll get -much- better quality from a nice C-band feed, at least you can get Realvideo of the event live.

Assuming their servers aren't full.

Which, especially after this posting, they most certainly will be...

That just goes to show their power

[Pac]

Think of the extend of the powers an agency had to have to erase so many History records in order to have him officially delivering them those same powers an year after he was killed.

Re:rocket launchers suck, useless technology !

[geekster_2000]

propellant mass propulsion is dead !! this is the the 21st century and if there is to be a 22nd we had better develop something new.

[detrolling]

[Gorimek]

Darn, happened to moderate this "troll" by mistake. So I post to erase it.

Re:[detrolling]

[phorm]

Thank you kind sir (or madam, made that mistake once before), I was somewhat curious at the troll marking. I'm always trolling for answers of course, but mainly because I generally want to hear solutions from individuals better educated than I.

The rocket was destroyed, yes...

[PD]

But thank goodness they rescued the pussy

Not the first...

[LittleGuy]

Allow me to be the first to say:

SONOFABITCH!!
GODDAMMIT!!
fuck
crap

*sigh*


I believe those terms were also used by American engineers working on the post-Sputnik failures.

And I wouldn't be surprised if one of the Wright brothers made the same comments pre-Kitty Hawk.

Re:Fuel and funds? (correction)

[John Carmack]

The number I saw quoted was $150k, not $250k.

John Carmack

Gee.

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee. a 'private' rocket fails to reach space. Can we say 'metaphor'?

Libertarians: leave space to the big boys.

asshole!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't care if your retarded ass is trying to be funny, you make me sick!

check your history

[Jetson]

What would happen if a launch failed because Joe Blow failed physics and got the angle of his rocket wrong and it hit a building somewhere and killed a bunch of people?

That's why they do this a gazillion miles out in the salt flats. The rocket was expected to fly to a height of 60 miles. If it was aimed incorrectly the rocket would spend much more time in lower (denser) air and would presumably have a reduced lateral range.

Nasa employs some of the smartest and most experienced people in the world and I would not trust anyone else to be launching rockets in to the sky.

NASA didn't start out with experience-- they gained it along the way. Most of NASA's early "rocket scientists" were Avro Aerospace employees who fled Canada in disgust after we canned the Arrow program. These guys brought lots of experience, but practically none of it directly applicable to the task of putting a man on the moon.

I believe NASA should have a monopoly on space travel as they are the only ones who seem to get it right.

Puh-lease. NASA's record is hardly stellar. They have had more success than others only because they've had more attempts. If you lift up the corner of the carpet you'll see lots of dirt under there...

Dropping the tank?

[gerardrj]

I've always wondered this:

Why drop the tank? I know it's empty but imagine leaving the external tank connected to the shuttle. Dock the shuttle to the ISS. Send the shuttle crew home on a fre Soiuze(sp?) return vehicles.
Using the next few shuttle missions and dedicated American and Russian supply rockets, re-fuel the external tank on the docked shuttle with hydrogen and oxygen.

During this refuel, resupply stage a dedicated, unstaffed rocket is launched with a lunar lander module. The module is sent in to lunar orbit. The module would be launched with minimal fuel to get it to the moon and in orbit.

Finally, with one last shuttle mission load the stored shuttle with the space hab unit (not used much recently). Install a crew and send the shuttle to the moon for an extended stay. They meet up with the lander module, dock and fuel the module from the external tank. Then send down 3-4 people. to rove the moon. On return, the lander is left in lunar orbit, again fuel-less. The crew return to the ISS.

If they could get three people there for a two weeks or so with those small Apollo capsules, imagine what kind of crew we could send like this, and the science they could do. This mission idea also extends the ISS in to being the first interplanetary space dock (well, sort of).

We could then have two sets of on-going shuttle missions: One set from Earth to ISS. One set from ISS to the Moon.

"Rocket Science"

[libertarian]

Gives the expression "Actually, it IS rocket science" some added meaning. ...or not, depending on how sarcastic you are.

sssuper!

[Anonymous Coward]

did anyone listen to the audio narrtion on the rocket cam website?

"it gave me goosebumps.."

silly..

Last Post!

[alpg]

A manager was about to be fired, but a programmer who worked for him
invented a new program that became popular and sold well. As a result, the
manager retained his job.
The manager tried to give the programmer a bonus, but the programmer
refused it, saying, "I wrote the program because I though it was an interesting
concept, and thus I expect no reward."
The manager, upon hearing this, remarked, "This programmer, though he
holds a position of small esteem, understands well the proper duty of an
employee. Lets promote him to the exalted position of management consultant!"
But when told this, the programmer once more refused, saying, "I exist
so that I can program. If I were promoted, I would do nothing but waste
everyone's time. Can I go now? I have a program that I'm working on."
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao of Programming"

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