Slashdot Mirror
Turn-key Mesh Routing Access Point
IPSection writes "LocustWorld announces the release of MeshAP-05. This is a test release of a bootable CD which turns a single board computer or laptop into a mesh node and access point. Clients can sign on to the network, cells communicate to form a robust, dynamic, compressed and encrypted mesh network. This is a prototype release intended for the widest possible test. Feedback is encouraged." There are several interesting things on this site, actually -- check out the Swarm Chip.
This couldn't have any practical use, considering it uses its own bootable OS, uses a strange new form of network, and is generally incompatible with everything.
It is just a test of theory, and Slashdot has done more harm to its use by posting it on the front page and obliterating all bandwidth from the site.
First of all, here's the full text, since it already seems to be Slashdotted:
"Version 5 of the mesh-AP is a bootable CD which is designed for either SBC systems like the "seahorse" and "starfish" but will work in many laptops and desktop systems. Simply boot the CD and place a wi-fi card in the machine. Driver support for multiple ethernet cards and multiple wi-fi cards. The system contains multiple protocols, assigning dhcp addresses to standard wifi clients at each "cell" cells communicate via mesh routing and form a robust self organising, compressed and encrypted network. There is a DNS proxy and HTTP proxy on each cell and IP is also gatewayed using NAT. See the enclosed word document on the CD for more information. This is a testing release, not suitable for production use, feedback is welcomed and development is ongoing. Requires 64mb of ram, zero harddisk space required. (UPDATED: Several fixes + full gateway discovery and repair)"
Now, for those of us who don't work with wireless networking on a daily basis, does someone care to explain the potential applications of this? Why is it useful? What can someone do with this?
And, finally, a note to the LocustWorld admins: The fact that your site is Slashdotted already should be a good indication of why not to use PHP-Nuke, eh? At first glance, I can't even tell whether this is a Slashdot-like news site or a corporate site. And if it's a corporate site, why do you have a poll on your front page? Since the site crashed, I can't even hit the mission statement.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
already slashdotted so I can't read it, but I assume that this means that I don't have to buy one of those fancy pants bridges to get a very large wireless network. I have wanted to build this with my friends to canvass an area around our university campus
this sig is deprecated
usually you have to buy "specialized equipment" that can go from access point to access point and still provide a cell coverage for an area. Traditionally access points are just added to a physicall network every so often, but with this you could canvass an etire area quickly using only wireless...very cool.
this sig is deprecated
Perhaps /. should warn those they link with PHP/mysql pages, or just wimpy servers, to up their threshhold for high traffic before making the post visible?
: www.locustworld.com/+%2B%22locustworld.com%22&hl=e n&ie=UTF-8
w ww.locustworld.com/print.php%3Fsid%3D6+%2B%22locus tworld.com%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Slashdot, chewing up servers faster than a swarm of locusts - phorm
Usually I let somebody else put this up and then scoff at them, but this time there was only 1 post about the article (yay slashdot) before it fried.
I was going to post the google cache, but even this is loading slowly as heck for some reason?
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:NApeNz5jiiEC
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:jeReKQ-XMO4C:
too many words, i'll make it simple
BORG!
anyways, if you are a php developer, go here
WE ARE HIRING A DEVELOPER IN SUNNYVALE
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
Can you just imagine 300 Dorm students with their own ad-hoc p2p network? It's too bad that the site's /.-ed, but I think a working application for this would be p2p networking within close proximity like a large University where the majority of the 'web' would be located around dorms, but several 'access points' on the outside of the larger hubs could connect local residents. Possible extending the network across town.
I'd hate to be the only sap between two large dorms - you'd be the gateway and could say good-bye to any bandwidth for yourself.
Damnit! Get that site back on-line. I'd love to test ths sucker out.
HURD - Hurd's Under Research & Development
Log on to ICQ or AIM -- I just grabbed your account numbers. Let's chat. :)
--SlashChick
Basically this product turns an old computer you might have sitting around into a Wi-Fi access point like something LinkSys or D-Link or whomever sells. All you do is connect the computer to your network and add in an 802.11B card and Presto!, your own wireless network.
Proof that in cyberspace, you can't hear your webmaster scream....
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
The reason this is useful is that it allows a group of (perhaps constantly changing) network nodes to form a big cohesive network. It sounds like it creates isolated layer 2 cells and builds a single layer 3 network out of the cells, which I believe is what the Linksys WET11 does.
Compare this to the coherent layer 2 network which can be created with Spanning Tree Protocol by using OpenAP like these guys do.
Most WiFi access points do not support a mesh topology, but only support hub and spoke. With hub and spoke, you can only connect to the network if you have line of sight to a hub, but with a mesh network, you can connect via any other network node. Mmmmmmm. . .
Perhaps someone who actually got through the slashdotting can comment on the other features (compression, encryption, proxying, etc.)
Why is this useful? The current state of affairs in the 802.11 world is that there are dozens of devices that have vague analogs in the wired networking world, but none of those analogies are perfect. Basically, you have the following classes of device:
- WLAN cards. Oronoco cards and the like. You one in a desktop box and it gets wireless ethernet capability. Can either talk to other WLAN cards (in what's called an ad-hoc network) or to a wireless access point. Basically like a NIC, except NICs don't try to plug themselves into hubs or other NICs. And the situation of connecting directly to another box using a crossover cable is usually viewed as a degenerate case; ad-hoc networks are completely legit and workable.
- Wireless Access Points are devices designed to allow WLAN cards to talk to a wired network. If there's an AP available, WLAN cards will break out of ad-hoc mode (where everyone talks to everyone) and switch to an associated mode, where they only talk to their AP. Ideally this is the AP with the best signal strength - but not always.
- Wireless Bridges are designed to allow a wired network participate in a wireless network.
Anyone who need this explaination probably just went "What!? But there's already a device to connect wireless networks to wired networks!" Ah, would that it were so. As much as AP's resemble wired switches, they're not.Wired networks are true undirected graphs. Wireless networks are heirarchal and difficult. Repeaters exist, but they're usually a bad idea, because you take huge hits to throughput.
Now, mesh wireless takes care of all that. Got a spot that's a little dim? Plop down a mesh point, it integrates into the network and you're nice and bright there now. Couldn't be easier, and is a whole lot more like a wired ethernet with the wires taken away, as opposed to the completely different animal that non-mesh wireless is.
Short form: wireless is obnoxious even if the results are cool. Mesh wireless is gorgeous, and the results are cooler.
IP is just rude.
Is there any torture so subl
Trying to locustworld.com on netcraft to see what their server is running reveals 0 sites found.
Perhaps slashdot warned them and they ran for covers taking their servers with them?
Or is it a conspiracy to measure interest in wireless p2p applications? Wait... Don't click on that link... Aarrghh!!
Yes, the server has been slashdotted. But should be back up with some tuned parameters in the next few minutes.
Because it came out yesterday? Just a guess.
There are a number of other interesting wireless projects which provide some cool / usefull features to 802.11 wifi networks:
NoCat Networks which implement QoS controls on user traffic giving priority to authenticated users.
Janus Wireless is working to improve mobile IP connectivity and integrated peer network services
IRIS which was mentioned recently and is perfectly suited for integration itno wireless networks for large amounts of reliable, distributed data storage.
MIT's GRID routing project which is probably the most similar.
The really cool uses will come when the integrated peer network / wireless network applications become popular an tandem with pervasive 802.11 deployment in homes and offices.
Although I can see it being overshadowed, if wireless hardware makers build into their access points the ability to multi-bridge and still accept client connections. That would take care of dim spots, too, and would be easier and smaller.
imagine a beawulf cluster of these!
Mesh05b-test
Server goes up in flames.
Film at 11.....
The problem is that the nodes seem to need to be in contact with each other, eg, one NIC per node, and you must be on the same channel as all the other nodes. While certainly useful, it seems to require a relatively high density.
http://www.houstonwireless.org/ and http://www.seattlewireless.org/ appear to be working on systems that work better in multihomed intelligently routed (well, assigned by a person and not guessed at by a machine - which is better may be up for debate) environments. Much less density is required in these types of situations, but near-universal is definately not guaranteed.
I'd like to see first, if this system can support multiple wireless nics, and second, how it behaves in a large scale setting. Second B, how does it work if you have a few directional antennae pointed at each other? The way most meshes appear to get around this is to set client-serving nodes in AP mode, and use ad-hoc for directional (routing) links.
This definately has promise.
funny munging
Where can I get a Red Hat 8 ISO really quick? All the mirrors are flooded or they haven't been updated yet.
Damn, I've been living in the country for too long...
Then perhaps it might recombine once communication between the independent networks was re-established (here assuming that neither mutates during isolation to be incompatible with the other).
This starts sounding like an organism.
Cause everybody already knows about it but, no body can get logged on to a decent mirror.
Why Slashdot a Slashdotted mirror?
I wish there was a way I could mod you down for your post being "untrue". Whether your post was a bold faced lie or a servere misinterpretation of the article could be for someone browsing at -1 to decide. Assuming the latter, if you would bother to read the article you would see that this by no means turns an old computer into a "Wif-Fi access point like something LinkSys or D-Link or whomever sells." Rather it turns it into something fundamentally different than your standard access point: the key word, as seen in the title of the slashdot article is MESH.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Php-Nuke isn't that bad, it all depends on the speed of the database server you have connected to it. And its a great web portal.. I found it much easier to setup and use than slashcode.
The REALLY cool use will be when people pack one of these in their car.
"Funny...I don't remember Ventura Highway having Wireless access..."
And I'd hate to be those Secret Service guys sniffing out insecure networks in D.C. <shudder>
What's this Submit thingy do?
Just realized: Anyone know how quickly 802.11 devices can connect, authenticate, route and transfer? (in that order...authentication optional.)
Can it be done without loosing running TCP/IP streams, or will we start seeing a prevalence of UDP/IP embedded protocols with connection-owner-tracking methods built in?
And without the UDP/IP embedded protocols, DHCP would/will be a real PITA.
What's this Submit thingy do?
What is the cheapest turnkey hardware configuration that can operate this software (including CD-ROM drive and wireless card)?
Seastead this.
Why the hell would this get modded as a troll? Laugh, it's funny.
The server capacity has been increased and it is handling the slashdotting pretty well now.
--I dunno. I gettin' mine as soon as cheapbytes has it, and they don't as of an hour ago I looked. I'm on a modem so the only thing I ever download is programs and updates. Snailmail broadband werkes for me. Anywho.....Perhaps if you really want the download, support redhat and buy a one year contract and get the secret password into the better servers they have? It's 16.4 cents a day for the contract I believe, if you look at it that way
Try scoop. Even the developers of PHP hate php-nuke... when I was an op on efnet's #php we would ban people who even said phpnuke...
http://24.199.20.178/mesh05.zip
I, Cringley(pbs.org) talked about home networks and WiFi and meshes and wotnot in August. Sounds really cool to me.
Etc, etc, ad nauseam, and so on and so forth.
My wish: slim down the memory requirements. Before anyone flames me with "memory is cheap", consider this:
I've got a few idle P100 laptops sitting around. I don't know if the cpu is fast enough, but if it is, this would be a perfect application (especially since most people consider these things useless these days). My only limitation: older laptops like this one have limited RAM. If we could get this to run on 8mb, or even 16mb, I'd be a much happier person.
I suspect a chunk of this RAM is setup for a RAM disk. Perhaps a hard drive install could be an option?
Jeff
This is really cool. I'm the installer for a rural ISP in NE Washington state, and often times when I go out to do a site survey, a mountian or a bunch of trees will be in my way.
You can kinda see the view from our tower #2 in colville here. Pictures that I took while I was up replacing an antenna. Kodak DC280 for those interested.
Anyway, we have 2 towers in Colville, which covers most of the town. Although there are a few areas that we can't reach. If we were to put in several inexpensive (a major plus) micro-cells of these things to kinda float around large obstacles, then this is could be a good thing.
I'm going to play with this, although can't exactly use it in production...
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
http://www.meshnetworks.com
really, i dont work for them(or anyone else ;0/). There are many vying to use this same tech - mostly for the purpose of delivering bandwidth with wireless none line tech (as opposed to line of site that has had some success already)- but there are other reasons.
I remember way back when people liked the internet there were more than one 'visionary' wantabe entrapeneur proposing highly efficient planes (or even balloons) basically hovering over urbania and reflecting fat bandwith to all. Think of it as a flying high gain antenna - 24/7(pairs or quads i think). Really, i'm not making this up.
At the risk of ridicule and flame anybody ever power-chute? (stick with me I'm going somewhere with this), then picture a miniature sized, radio powered, highly efficient 802.11 WAP baring airplane (did you know there have been radio planes[not powered-chutes] that stayed up for as much as 30 hours or for trans - atlantic flights), with a panning camera ...a kind of 802.11 distibution machine with eyes and limited brains. Swarm like even or autonomous drones or singular and remote controlled. In pairs, comunal even, slow, methodical but highly efficient INSTANTLY DEPLOYABLE ROAMING NETWORK.
Want an applicaton for meshnetworks?
-boats with bandwidth and beer
-live bikinis at high rez and beer
-instantly deployable roaming netowork
Back to the fridge....
my other sig sucks less
Essentially all nodes that have an internet connection on eth0 broadcast the fact that they are a gateway into the real internet. This model extends by hops, out into the WIFI mesh network.
So all the system does, is route you to the internet via a path with the fewest hops. It does not provide interconnectivity between WIFI nodes themselves at all (they are all NATed). It does not provide a handover from one cell to the next as you move, so it just works for stationary nodes. It just offers a multi-hop VPN to the nearest AP with a "real" internet connection, adding a NAT layer with every hop out.
This is pretty cool, but still a far cry away from spontaneous self-organizing WIFI-only networks, where there is no "root gateway" and no hierarchy as in this case (which is one of the problems).
A short excerpt from the doc before it gets slashdotted:
The software provided, the "Mesh AP", is designed to be run on a node, eg a system designed to serve others. It has the dual purpose of also connecting in to the network. So even if you are just a repeater and using the software to reach the Internet, you are also providing an extension to the mesh and a standard DHCP cell for any non-mesh clients which wish to sign on.
The software boots, it then allocates itself an address, typically in the 10.x.x.x range. Initially the allocated address is random.
Then, it attempts to find an internet gateway, first probing 192.168.1.1/255.255.128.0 and then using a DHCP client on the Ethernet interface to try to sign on to a gateway. If no gateway can be found, the software considers that it has only wireless links and is a repeater-cell.
The cell starts an internal dns server and transparent web proxy on port 80 and 8080, a dhcp server is also started an a random class C network is picked in the range 192.168.128.0/255.255.128.0
Clients connecting to the dhcp cell are pointed to the wireless interface for default gateway and dns server. The dns server running on the repeater always returns the address of the gateway, no matter what domain name is resolved.
At this point, the node still cannot serve clients, but it will sign them on.
Meanwhile, the kernel AODV(11) module is loaded and the node then finds neighbour cells in its local range by sending/receiving UDP packets to the broadcast address.
Any cells within the mesh which are gateways, periodically broadcast a route to a bogus address which implies an internet gateway. This route is repeated outwards in a "ring" fashion as per the AODV protocol.
Any cell without a gateway receiving this address then attempts to establish a compressed encrypted IP-tunnel VPN via the "vtund" package. Compression uses LZO and encryption is blowfish. (ip ranges 172.16.x.x)
This IP tunnel could be over multiple hops to the destination gateway, AODV handles the optimised routing between linked cells. Eg, multi-hop routes eg.
The cell then switches all its outbound dns and ip traffic to go via this VPN gateway link. The DHCP configuration is also updated to now serve the remote gateway address as a dns server (gateway nodes run a real dns proxy) - Any clients who signed on before the link was found will forward traffic to the local cell which will proxy it via http proxy etc, any clients signing on after a gateway is found will receive the remote gateway details and will have full IP routing.
Any client signing directly on to a cell which has a local internet gateway will go directly via that gateway.
Idempotent operation: Like MS software, wether you run it once or often, that doesn't make it any better.
why not just make a rom upgrade that you can upload into an existing access point? that would be so cool!
I think there's no compression or encryption, but you can layer that on top if you want, but if I've understood it correctly the mesh nodes can dhcp normal wireless nodes to hang off them. I'm not sure that compression or encryption is particularly important anyway- in most cases the main reason that other people are connecting to your network would be to access the internet and you can protect that with VPN software if necessary.
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"We've been looking for a software solution similar to MeshNetworks' application but haven't seen anything on the market except for the hardware-based gear like Nokia's RoofTop. MeshNetworks is promising but they're very slow to implement and have been spewing teaser press releases for almost a year now.
:-)
We've been working on a semi-mesh initiative by engineering gear from the Orinoco line for a 1,700 home subdivision but the Locust software may allow us to create a full-mesh deployment.
Thx much for the excellent submittal!
We're already out of addresses - why add more in wireless space? IPv6 has many features that allow for efficient autodiscovery of other nodes, transition mechanisms to move easily from IPv4, multicasting capabilities, etc.
Let's drop this 192.168.x.x and 10.x.x.x stuff and just give everybody their own address. Multiple addresses can easily be used on a single interface as well.
Just something to think about when you want to design something yourself. If you don't want it to make itself extinct in the next few years, think about integrating IPv6 at the outset. It _is_ widespread technology just waiting to happen.
Links:
IPv6.org
hs247.com
freenet6.net
6bone.net
For more reasons on why IPv6 is so cool, and some of the neat things it can do (especially in the field of mesh-wireless, check out some of the technical details here.
A good intro to IPv6 can be found here.
One thing they don't tell you about doing experimental physics is that
sometimes you must work under adverse conditions... like a state of sheer
terror.
-- W.K. Hartmann
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