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The Rise and Fall of the Geek

chilled writes "Tom Steinberg has posted this guest editorial on The Register bemoaning the decline of the Geek. He suggests that geeks in their alignment against for example RIP and Microsoft are losing their voice. I think he's right but the emergence of a common set of goals should be recognised as a very good thing. The geeks amongst us should use this commonality to rise up and use our voice for progress and not petty squabbling."

20 of 358 comments (clear)

  1. A Counter Opinion by gowen · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is already a counter opinion posted at The Reg.

    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    1. Re:A Counter Opinion by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Both articles are arguing from the faulty premise that there is such a thing as a geek political agenda.

      There are plenty of geeks out there who want nothing to do with Linux, prefering the tools of Sun, Apple and even (gasp!) Microsoft. The first article seems to make the case that all geeks demand open source exclusively, because if you don't make such demands, you're not a geek. (A classic falacy of logic).

      I would even go so far as to say that the majority of geeks that I have known are aware of open source & Linux, and use both at least some of the time (particularilly some of the better GNU tools), but are not married to the Stalmanist ideology that all software should be free, and spend most of their time working with various closed applications. There are those who fit the description of these articles, but I don't believe they don't even represent the majority of geekdom, let alone a consensus.

      The whole debate is downright Katzian, in that it assumes a cultural development that isn't actually happening.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    2. Re:A Counter Opinion by glh · · Score: 5, Funny


      I would even go so far as to say that the majority of geeks that I have known are aware of open source & Linux, and use both at least some of the time (particularilly some of the better GNU tools), but are not married to the Stalmanist ideology that all software should be free, and spend most of their time working with various closed applications. There are those who fit the description of these articles, but I don't believe they don't even represent the majority of geekdom, let alone a consensus.


      I think the register is so closely tied to slashdot (at least in some way, probably not officially) that it assumes that the slashdot collective = how to define the way a geek should be. In fact, a lot of sites are looking at slashdot as the source of what geeks/nerds think is important (look at google news!)

      Sadly, the term geek is becoming a pop-culture phenomenon. Dare I say it, but slashdot itself IS becoming pop culture (if it's not already).

      That's the media for you. What really gets me is, once they get something they run with it. So what about all us poor geeks who don't fit the slashdot collective? A year from now if I go around calling myself a geek, people will automatically think they know what I stand for. Stereotypes, blech.

      So I propose a new term to avoid this confusion. I henceforth will no longer call myself a "geek". Those of you who feel the same way can join with me and start using the term "gump". Similar to geek, it once had a negative connotation to it. However, it's time to break away from the soon-to-be-stereotypical geek term and embrace this new one.

      Then, when "gump" gets to be a stereotype in a few years, we can change it again to something like "gork" or "gonk" which is a made up word that sounds very silly. :)

      Let's get "gumpy". Kind of has a nice ring to it, huh?

    3. Re:A Counter Opinion by grumpygrodyguy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Both articles are arguing from the faulty premise that there is such a thing as a geek political agenda.

      This is the most absurd thing I've read in a mod 5 post yet.

      The first article seems to make the case that all geeks demand open source exclusively, because if you don't make such demands, you're not a geek

      The author is a good journalist, and he's very impartial...but he doesn't understand the basis of the problem.
      This article is a warning about a dangerous monoculture of beliefs I see starting to form in the world of geeks, and a plea for more variety.

      He started the article by saying that in the "good ol days" like the 1980's geeks disagreed on many things, but they all had one common characteristic...a love, a fascination with technology. The author seems to think that we've fallen from our true cause...and now are just a bunch of whining 2nd rate hippies.

      My response to the author is this: There is no way to have a geek world with DRM. It is fundamentally impossible. There is no happy median, there is no compromise, it is impossible. Why? Because being a geek is about taking a general purpose set of tools(wires, capacitors, an instruction set, a programming language, etc) and casting those tools into something new. Show me one good classical geek "hack" that wasn't about doing something new and creative with ordinary hardware? That's the whole point; that was always the whole point.

      DRM will only be effective by removing this capabilty from all technologies...not just computers, but all of them. There is no such thing as 99% DRM, or 50% DRM. If I find a way to hack my toaster's MPU to resonate the heating coils at sonic frequencies, and then play MP3's with it, then the DMCA has failed. What that means is that every microchip must be crippled into a "special purpose" device. There is no longer any need for a programming language...just hardwires "allowing" the appropriate functionality for the consumer. And ultimately excluding any other function.

      If this happens, everything any of us have ever loved about technology will be finished...done. Sure you can still microwave your popcorn, check your e-mail, and order your pay-per-view...but that is all you will ever be able to do(and it's all your grandchildren will ever be able to do). It's the end of technological progress, period.

      There is no middle ground on this issue.
      --
      The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
  2. This is just not true. by Kenja · · Score: 5, Funny

    Geeks have a long and rich heritage they should be proud of. The Geek is and always will be an important part of the circus sideshow. Without them biting the heads off live chickens, the red neck circus patron will have no one to compare themselves favorably to before the beer kicks in.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  3. evolution by Raiford · · Score: 5, Interesting
    What a geek is today is very different from what a geek was 20 years ago. Geeks of old (I guess we were called nerds back then) focused strictly on technology and science and stayed as far away from politics of any kind as you could possible get. Geeks of today seem to love the political scene and enjoy engaging in the fray. This is a big distinction from the aboriginal geek (or geek derived from the nerd). I say stick with the science and engineering. Life is too short to get caught up in politics.

    --
    "player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
    1. Re:evolution by alcmena · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Back then geeks stayed away from politics because politicians stayed away from technology. That's no longer the case.

  4. Of course geeks will decline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    No date => no girlfriend => no wife => no geek kids.

  5. "geeks" are being defined. by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who is this guy to define what *I* am like. Yes, I do disagree w/the DMCA, the RIAA, and Microsoft. I don't like the fact that the US is becoming more and more government controlled. I don't like the fact that the PEOPLE of the US are allowing this to happen w/o a fight.

    I don't like the fact this this person believes we had strict boundaries. I don't like the fact that he calls us "pasty, long haired, UN*X t-shirt wearing" individuals.

    I am against things that are wrong. Microsoft, the DMCA, and recent US policies are WRONG.

    I don't have a pasty complexion, I don't have long hair, I don't live on pizza and Mountain Dew, and I certainly don't wear Unix related t-shirts.

    He is the one setting boundaries on us, not the group.

    Geeks stand up for what they believe in. We are typically young and brash and want to see change made. We are the protesters of the new millenium. We use a different medium than was used before. We are who we are, not what someone labels us as.

    Please forgive the rant. He was just wrong for creating a false label for the "geek".

    1. Re:"geeks" are being defined. by Reckless+Visionary · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Geeks stand up for what they believe in.

      No they don't. They stand up and bitch to each other on geek-only websites about how no one else will stand up for them.

      --
      I think I'll stop here.
    2. Re:"geeks" are being defined. by WinterSolstice · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I see your point here, but I think what you are missing the real problem.

      Geeks have become a clique

      That is the problem. Just like some people who don't ride skateboards are called Skateboarders, and people who are into Anne Rice are called Goths, Geeks are now a "culture". This is the fundamental problem.

      I don't know about you, but I AM NOT A GEEK. I am a highly paid, moderately liberal computer professional. I do not have a ponytail, I do not wear t-shirts with political slogans (most of my shirts are free vendor handouts with software or hardware logos), and I most certainly am not going to say that I belong to any particular cultural group.

      However, I might be classed (by another individual) as a geek, since I can program in dozens of languages, configure routers, wire hubs, build servers, manage workstations, hand-edit the Windows Registry, and still remember the PET. I am against the DMCA, against harsh limits on fair use (while being for reasonable limits), and against an Orwellian future.

      Does that make me a geek? Do I care? No. I think that is the problem. Geeks used to be just about anyone who was technical (in anything from Art to Circuitry), and had "fallen out of society" at some point. I have miserable social skills, for example.

      Perhaps those of us who seem to be the former geeks should just go back to ignoring these morons, and especially anyone who claims to have geek pride. Or, perhaps we should just be more assertive in saying "F@#K You!" when people try to classify us.

      My views probably don't agree with your views in lots of ways. Good. Keep it that way. Be yourself, and to hell with anyone else. Just don't forget that "Geek" apparently is now a culture that was built around the people, not the other way around.

      /Rant

      -WS

      --
      An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
  6. Get on with the real issues by Target+Drone · · Score: 5, Funny
    use our voice for progress and not petty squabbling

    The sooner we can put our petty squabbling aside the sooner we can get move on to the real issue.

    Which is better Star Trek or Star Wars?

  7. Re:Uhhh... by unicron · · Score: 5, Funny

    First of all, it's a Miata, and it's in your dad's name, so get it right. Second, she can be anyone's girlfriend provided they've managed to save up the 50 bucks. And third, she told me you don't do much "rising" of any type, which I think is pretty disrespectful of her considering how much your're paying.

    And no, the itching wasn't there before, no matter how much you wanna believe it was.

    --
    Finally, math books without any of that base 6 crap in them.
  8. Did he proofread? by back_pages · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I didn't bother with the counterargument, but I don't exactly feel compelled.

    He says geeks used to argue over the standard stuff, vi vs. emacs, keyboard vs. mouse, X vs. console, PC vs. microcomputer. Fair enough. Now he says that nobody argues against DRM, the DMCA, and invasions of privacy.

    I suppose Soviet Communists in the olden days would argue about whether rubber or leather boots were better in springtime, but nobody felt justified saying, "Those capitalists aren't that bad!" Likewise, these days in America, there is plenty of talk about whether N'Bizkit is better than Limp Korn, or whatever retarded ear-shit people listen to. Yet nobody stands up and says, "You know, we really should let the state run all of our industry."

    So big surprise, we're all in agreement about things that threaten the foundation and definition of the group. What an insight, you might as well go write an internet editorial about it and get Michael to post on Slashdot.

    Ya know, it really is telling when I got halfway through this post and thought to myself, "Well goddamn, this must have been another piece of drivel that Micheal thought was really clever, like that time he shared with us the story about adjusting your TVs brightness control to play PS2." What crap.

  9. The larger problem is the new crowd. by TellarHK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've always been kinda fringe geek. Not really a great programmer, more an observer, plotter, and wannabe administrator. Not nearly as geek as many I know, but still geek enough to be considered by people who aren't geeky at all. Unfortunately, we've got one thing making "geekdom" feel polluted, and that's the cram-away certification crowd.

    High school kids coming out with MCSE's, places you can get a CCNA quick, or A+ certification that just seems like a joke to any old-school type. These people are the "new geek chic" and they're anything but.

  10. RIP by Ctrl-Z · · Score: 5, Funny


    Just what exactly do geeks have against the Routing Information Protocol?

    --
    www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
    1. Re:RIP by Plutor · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just what exactly do geeks have against the Routing Information Protocol?

      Let's start with the usual.

      1) True distance routing protocols, like RIP, are inherently flawed. It requires a table of the entire network to be stored on each router, requiring precious hard drive or flash memory space.

      2) RIP broadcasts its entire table every thirty seconds.

      3) The maximum size of a RIP packet is 512 bytes, so any reasonably sized network will have RIP updates sent as multiple packets. This, combined with 2, can add up to a lot of data transfer FAST.

      4) Extremely slow convergence

      5) Lack of VLSM support in RIP1 (which too many campuses are still using).

      6) Lack of configurability where route summarization is concerned.

      Oh wait.. were you joking?

  11. He still doesn't get it... by Archfeld · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Conformity : Proudly serving painfully boring people since time began....

    geeks are misfits, not some social group you can mobilize, the more mainstream the issue the more support you will lose and the more fragmentation you will see. The authors' failure to understand, just highlights the fact that he's not a geek but a suit trying to be cool. The sub-culture WAS NEVER tied together by commonality but by opposition of the homogenization of culture. Here this 'guest' editor is bemoaning the lack of just such a thing....
    The counter culture is STILL there they've just shunned the icons proposed for them by the 'man' and those that would make a buck of them.

    TGIF, and rant off......

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  12. Sorry, I don't buy it. by Wraithlyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Others, such as the hatred of Microsoft and the loathing of Spam come from a quite reverse philosophy - a principled distain of the side-effects of capitalism, betraying socialist ancestry."

    Yeah, whatever. My hatred of Microsoft comes from the lack of stability in their operating systems, and their predatory, monopolistic practices (which have been confirmed in a court of law, thank you very much)

    And Spam? Do I even have to address this point? I hate it because it wastes my time, it wastes internet bandwidth and storage space, and the people sending it don't even really have to pay very much to inconvenience the entire email reading planet. It's unbalanced.

    "If none of this is making sense to you, try the following mental exercise. Could you sit in a pub with a group of geeks, defend the RIP Act, and convince them that you were still one of them?"

    Yes I could. Perhaps I have more open minded friends than you, who are willing to entertain an argument without ostracizing someone with an alternative viewpoint.

    I'm a geek because I've loved fooling with computers my entire life, have a profound desire to see technology used to improve the world, and have developed quite a bit of hardware, software, and programming expertise. My political affiliations don't enter into it. Neither do my race, sex, nationality, or religous beliefs.

    --
    "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
  13. Pet Peeve by Lizard_King · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is a popular misconception in today's culture that all geeks use and endorse Linux.

    "Geeks may argue about which Linux distro is best ..."

    I would classify myself as a geek and I never felt terribly comfortable using Linux. I've dabbled here and there, kept Linux boxen lying around, but have never used any as my primary machine. I've been a devout BSD fan...until OS X came along.

    "...but they all know that a Good OS Has to Be Free. "

    bullshit. A good OS has to be good. I'll pay for an operating system that I think is solid. I had no problems paying $129 for Jaguar a few weeks ago.

    Geeks are people who are curious about technology and make a living and a hobby out of utilizing technology different ways. Oh wait.... I forgot what site I was posting on. Long live Linux and down with those imperial Microsuck bastards

    --
    "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson