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Laptop Fuel Cells Approved For Air Carriage
gilgsn writes "According to reports in BusinessWeek, the US Department of Transportation has ruled that a new fuel cell developed by US company Polyfuel can be taken on airplanes. The announcement clears the way for the commercialisation of fuel cells as an alternative to batteries in notebook computers. The use of direct methanol fuel cells on aeroplanes has been questioned as they contain methanol, which is flammable. According to Jim Balcom, Polyfuel's CEO, the US DOT said that a fuel cell designed by his company could be taken into aircraft cabins when it goes on sale because it contains a relatively low concentration of methanol. Fuel cells are viewed as a promising power source in notebook comptuers as they are instantly refuellable (using fuel cartridges) and will power laptops two to three times longer than standard batteries. Full Story." This will be more exciting news when the fuel cells are actually available.
A Wired article touched on this previously.
The neat thing are the carbon nanotubes used to drive these things. NEC is working on fuel cells for phones.
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Interview with GoDaddy President Bob Parsons
Jim Balcom, Polyfuel's CEO, the US DOT said that a fuel cell designed by his company could be taken into aircraft cabins when it goes on sale because it contains a relatively low concentration of methanol.
Just one might have a small amount, but what about the person who carries a bag full of them? Initial excuse being that there will be only a few places to get these when they first hit the market.
Jesus saves souls and redeems them for valuable cash prizes
Maybe they can be refueled at the lavatory.
33 years old and still making potty jokes. It's sad, really.
Li-ion isn't the safest technology, When Lithium Ion batteries were first released 4 years ago(Sic!) they were actually banned from transportation on aircraft. Unsolved problems with batteries exploding violently resulted in the ban. [transair.com] Let's hope that some lessons has been learned and this won't happen this time around. Though, Li-ion batteries are still used today because of better safety regulations [nec-tokin.net] and even built in microprocessors to protect from overcharging. Lithium will still explode or overheat if charged at a too high voltage and if it catches fire, don't try to put it out with water!
The advantages of Li-ion obviously outweight the hazards and since fuel-cells don't seem any worse they will probably get accepted too. Apart from
better performance they might find a niche already because of normal batteries abysmal heat specifications. My laptop battery is not to be operated at temperatures higher than 35 degrees celcius, which really is impossible to achieve if you are using the computer standing on a desk. Not considering people in hotter countries or scientists at the southpole...
Look here for a more balanced story on battery technology [extremetech.com]
I'll buy a laptop that has a methanol fuel cell in it when I can plug my laptop into any wall socket to recharge my methanol supply. Sure methanol may last way longer, but the readily availiable supply of electricity far outweighs the benefits of the longer lasting fuel cell.
Bork!
I can see it now - all those busines-class air travelers sitting with their laptops open, little puffs of steam bubbling out every few minutes...
That being said:
This could be a boon to the more adventurous computer users. Instead of having to drag a solar pack around, and a bag of spare batteries, a jug of methanol and you'll be set for weeks!
What will the new measurement be - MIPS/liter?
One thing to ask is, how much do these suckers weigh, and how big are they? If they're huge and huge they're not going to embraced by laptop users. The PDF file has a picture of a fuel cell (p8) that's the length of laptop. Some laptops still use big ones like that but many have made more compact batteries. Another page shows an external-type cell (p14), which might be nice for airlines, etc, but at the size given isn't anything hugely innovative.
The article also states that they power laptops 2-3 times longer than standard batteries. So what's standard? Between different laptops, and depending on activity, there can be a significant difference how long batteries last. A hard estimate of how long they last under normal conditions (no CD's etc running all the time) would be a lot nicer. Call me suspicious but they also say 2-3 times longer than standard batties. My laptop doesn't run very long at all on a few AA's (insert smiles here).
Lastly, just a poke at the article because I hate lazy editors:
also -notebook comptuers- it would be nice if the reporter could spell
Why the heck are they worried about flammable alcohol in my computer when the stewardess will give me two shots of 100 proof vodka that burns quite nicely?
First cars are going to electrical motors, now laptops are using fuel cells. Why not a diesel powered cell phone ?
Next thing you'll tell me is that there is like a tenth planet or something.
Damn slashdot. I used to be a normal person.
"One for you, one for me. One for you..."
One way or another, today's young go-getters are going to end up high on meths. Oh the canadian irony.
-- Proud descendant of semi-nomadic cattle-herders.
Screw the airplane--what about my lap? I mean seriously, an airplane is a lot harder to set aflame than my cordurouys.
---- El diablo esta en mis pantalones! Mire, mire!
As much as I'd like to run my laptop on fuel cells, this sounds like a potential loophole for carrying far more-flammable fuels onto airplanes. Not that there are people who would go to the trouble of implementing something like that when they could just fill their shoes...
O.M.G -- To think that for all these years, I've been flying in airplanes accompanied by dozens of little 1-ounce TICKING TIME BOMBS in the beverage cart -- each one filled with a FLAMMABLE ethanol mixture!
I'm not stepping onto an airplane again until this situation is fixed!!!
(Hmm... I could offer to dispose of these dangerous articles at no charge to the arlines.)
... but this post doesn't excite me as much as it might have a year ago. The problem is that I fear laptops will sooner or later be banned from airplanes due to wireless interference concerns.
I've been looking at laptops lately, a lot of them have built in 802.11 and bluetooth. Problem is: how do you know if they are on or off? The average business user who has no idea what his/her laptop is capable of is expected to know to turn the wireless stuff off. Because of this there has been chatter about banning laptops all together.
It seems to me that air-travel should be a larger concern for mobile devices these days. My cell phone that has all these organizer and game features doesn't have an 'airplane' profile that shuts down the transmitters on it. Should laptops have 'Airplane' profiles too?
In any case, I know it's a little off topic. It's nice to see a company saying "we'll get this approved for use in the air", but arguably air travel is their target market. Personally, I wouldn't invest in them until I knew more about what the future holds for computing devices in the air.
"Derp de derp."
For more on the clinical side of methanol click here.
For the person that replied saying that methanol was in alcoholic drinks, there are some trace amounts of methanol in alchoholic beverages, as well as several household products, but the primary alcohol present is ethanol. While still technically a poison, it is not nearly as toxic as its chemical siblings and is easily metabalized into harmless byproducts.
FYI: Ethanol in labs is "denatured" with methanol to made it so it is too toxic to drink. (We couldn't have highschoolers hangin in the supply room drinking 199 proof now could we? ;) )
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
And also the normal components inside of your computer are very carcinogenic, the recycled air in the cabin can be harmful, etc, etc.
A mildly poisonous (compared to, for example, household bleach) chemical like methanol won't do you any harm in a sealed container in quantities of less than an ounce, as in a laptop fuel cell.
May I also remind you that the ethanol you buy at the store is denatured with methanol anyway. You probably already have a good amout of this toxic stuff already sitting in your medicine cabinet. We deal with extremely toxic stuff all the time. For example, aspirin is much more toxic than methanol. Try eating 1 cup of aspirin. You'd die of liver failure.
We can't just let all of these irrational fears get in the way of advancement.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
Geek 2
Geek 3
Geek 2
Geek 1
Geek 3
*** Sound of several minutes of apparent use of tools ***
Geek 1
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*** Static (or various moans and cries with a dark voice rambling "Liberate Tuteme Ex Infernus"(sp?) if you're in a marcabre mood.) ***
Hate me!
However, if tehy do not last long, and users are having to swap them out constantly, doesn't that pose a fire hazard? (having 2 fuel cells per lap top toting passenger?)
When you think about it, the methanol is encapsulated and is a fairly small amount (50 mL maybe?)
When you order your shot of scotch on the plane, you have a flammable liquid which is not encapsulated at all, and is slightly more volatile than methanol.
If you don't understand any of my sayings, come to me in private and I shall take you in my German mouth.
I can't see direct-methanol fuel cells not making it to production and widespread use in all sorts of things from laptops to cars. They have all the positive qualities of regular (hydrogen) fuel cells, but they have a few more really significant advantages:
1. They're easily rechargable. Anyone can pour a weak methanol solution from a bottle into a fuel cell's reservoir, but not everyone has the equipment (or desire) to store compressed hydrogen in their home or car.
2. They're stigma-free. Mention hydrogen and the first thing many people think of is the hindenburg. While it's true that hydrogen was _not_ the cause of the disaster (entire thing was covered in flammable paint), many people think it is and will shy away from hydrogen-powered cars and appliances for that reason. As far as I know, there have been no significant disasters for which methanol has been blamed. (Disclaimer: I may be wrong.)
3. A weak methanol solution really is safe - it's not going to hurt you unless you drink it. (Methanol isn't drinkable alcohol, that's ethanol. Methanol is converted by the body into formaldehyde, the stuff you use to preserve dead things.)
If you're talking about "rubbing alcohol," that's not ethanol...it's usually isopropanol. If you're talking about Everclear, it had better not be denatured.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Some laptops use as much as 70 watts of power. That's not much less than a human being uses at rest (such as sitting in an airline seat). Airlines barely circulate enough air into the cabin now to keep people from passing out. With fuel cells sucking up more of the available oxygens, airlines may have to provide more air--and they might not get around real soon to doing that. I hope it doesn't cause anyone serious breathing problems.
This is not nearly as disturbing as something I heard the other day.
.
.
The actually sell these little wooden sticks that are tipped with chemicals such that when rubbed against the box the chemicals ignite and, in turn, ignite the wood.
If you think that is bad, they even have special ones that will ignite when rubbed against any number of common items, such as the "zipper" on so-called "Levi's." (Which, I understand, are allowed on aircraft.)
The really amazing part is that these things will slip right past even the most astute airport screener and can be purchased at any grocery store without a special license!
I have heard rumors about a secret type of these things, which I hear are called "matches," though I don't know what it is they are supposed to "match," that are made from chemically treated paper. This type supposedly comes in "books" that are so small they can be easily hidden in the palm of one's hand, and are essentially undetectable.
We live in ghastly days . .
-Peter
PS: Rubbing alcohol doesn't explode, nitwit. Oh, and I don't know where you are from, but where I live "boosting" a car and "jumping" a car are two totally different things.
I'm starting to see how this is all going to pan out. Apologies to those who already figured it out.
so HP makes most of its money off of proprietary inkjet refill carts. It's the disposable razor model, where you get the printer for a song, but the supplies suck you dry. now with fuel cells, for the sake of 'safe transferrance' of fuel to the cell, the fuel cell supplier will sell you fuel packs in proprietary cases (probably with microchips (ala Epson ink carts) to deter 'piracy' (ie third parties)). The batteries will go for a song, and at $10 each the refills won't seem prohibitively expensive. heck, you could get a 10-pack for $70 at costco, most likely.
But use them day after day for your commute to work, use them on planes, on vacation so you don't have to lug a power supply (since you'll be able to buy them on demand all over the world, like film) and suddenly a huge new industry emerges, because we're too clumsy to put methanol into a compartment without NASA-level safeguards.
Yeah, I'm bitter, but this is how the world works. Things don't come to market because they're better; things come to market when people figure out how to get rich off it.
Kevin Fox
I wonder if you could do an emergencey ethanol refill using an airline vodka bottle?
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
Try take a 1.5v D cell and run steel wool accross the terminals. We used to start campfires that way back in my scouting days.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!