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New SecuROM Ties Protection to Physical Structure

Posted by CowboyNeal on from the warez-arms-race dept.

bernardos70 writes "I read a brief article describing how the new version of secuROM, which is already present in newer games, employs a new encryption method which 'tie[s] itself specifically to the physical structure and characteristics of each disk'. Apparently companies are even ordering specially designed media to implement this method. I think that all this will do is frustrate the average joe trying to make legit copies, as the various groups online distributing ISO's are sure to find a way to bypass yet this new technology."

30 of 372 comments (clear)

  1. "legit copies" by tomstdenis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    sure sure. Yeah, I was backing this up, my friends keep it for safe storage.

    Or how about you not buy them then?

    If the companies are so horrible, so evil, so mean, represent all that you loath, how about you *not* give them money?

    Duh....

    --
    Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    1. Re:"legit copies" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i DO by my own games.

      (faves: MOHAA, GTA3, half-life, thief.)

      the first thing i do is rip them to an .ISO, using "blindread".

      then the physical media goes in a large CD wallet thingy, archived.

      i can mount the ripped CD image using "daemon tools" virtual cdrom.

      hey, it even supports DVDs too! and even breaks them into multiple files to get around the 4GB
      file size limit, if necessary. (i run windoze 98 for games so that's real nice.)

      i don't like having to hunt down and swap physical media to play a game or watch a movie. with huge drives so cheap, why not have instant access to everything? that's the way i like it. one-click access to music, movies, games -- all of which i paid for.

      for ME, it's not about illegal copying. this is totally fair use.

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26612.htm l

    2. Re:"legit copies" by TRACK-YOUR-POSITION · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The problem is that companies aren't pure evil--there are good people making cool shit, then there are assholes who add SecureROM to fuck up everything. Boycotting is pointless--we want the right to use the product we bought, so avoiding the product just bites off your nose to spite your face. Fair use rights aren't any good if you aren't buying anything.

      Duh...

      Actually, this is all besides the point. SecureROM really sucks. Not because it takes away fair use--but because it stops people from playing games, period. They recently removed SecureROM checks from Neverwinter Nights because they just wouldn't work on some people's computers (the game would always crash when starting up). Reportedly similar problems exist with Unreal Tournament 2003. If you find yourself in such a situation, the only solution is either to wait a couple of weeks for the company to maybe release a patch to end SecureROM checks, or to download a crack for the game. Thank goodness for haxorz.

  2. Crypto, Schmypto by ccoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This won't work any better than the anti-CD copying methods RIAA has tried, nor keep people from copying the games any more than putting a piece of tape on a cookie jar will keep a hungry teenager from gettting in.

    With any encryption, any digital encoding method... if there is a way to play the game, there is a way to break the code. The question is who will be first? Wait and see.

    --

    --
    "During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" -- George Orwell
    1. Re:Crypto, Schmypto by iocat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The point isn't to forever prevent hackers from cracking the protection, the point is to *delay* ISOs going out on the net long enough (30 to 60 days is fine) so that you maximize sales, especially among consumers "on the bubble" between piracy and purchasing. While there are many people who will pirate the game but wouldn't ever but it, if something's too easy to pirate, you will lose sales.

      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    2. Re:Crypto, Schmypto by smblion · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And that would be fine, if it actually worked. SecuROM is notorious for causing slowdowns, crashes, etc. In fact, of all the copy protection schemes around, it's probably the most irritating for legal consumers.

      In addition, the new games using SecuROM have already been cracked. Roller Coaster Tycoon 2 isn't even supposed to be out on store shelves until Tuesday, and the ISO is posted all over the internet, crack and all.

      The thing is, if the companies didn't spend so much money on copy protection, perhaps they could lower the software price a bit? And perhaps that would promote more sales? Unless software companies are willing to look at, and research, that option, then I am not willing to give them credit for making good business decisions. Copy protection has _never_ worked. Since the very beginings of it, with key disks (credit to the other person who brought this up first) to the most complex dongle based systems. It never has worked, and never will work. One day, publishers will figure this out. The question is, how long? It's been 20 years already.

    3. Re:Crypto, Schmypto by jedrek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The ONLY thing this will do is prevent Joe Gamer from making a copy for his nephew. Pirate groups break copy protection, no matter if it's SecureRom, SafeDisc or whatever. It's a matter for honor for these guys to break the protection. The harder the protection, the bigger the challenge, the more 'fun' it is. If a crack is lacking someone will make a fix, either from the original group are a competitor.

      Generally, the competitive nature of scene makes sure that if something can get cracked and distributed, it will. And the quicker, the better. If these guys think that this will block more than casual and CloneCD piracy, then they need to wake up. Software publishers: stop fucking with your regular users investing truckloads of cash into copy protection, just make software worth buying.

  3. When will they learn?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The warez kiddies just hack up the code to remove the copy protection check. As soon as this is done (often within hours of release), the copy protection is worthless. The people behind Neverwinter Nights finally figured this out and disabled the check in one of the program updates.

  4. Copying ? by tmark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    which is already present in newer games...all this will do is frustrate the average joe trying to make legit copies

    You know, the claims that some music CD user owner will want to make a legit rip/copy of some CD he bought is plausible. But how many game owners make backup copies of his game CDs ? And do people really want to argue that the majority of game CDs burned are for legitimate reasons ?

    1. Re:Copying ? by Telastyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I make backups of my game cds. I buy them, and because of assinine copy protection schemes, I need to keep switching the cds in my drive. Oddly enough, all that handling (and coke spillage and dropping and...) puts a little wear on them. Silly me uses burnt copies so I don't have to rebuy a game I already own.

      Certainly it is not the majority, but it's foolish to think that this sort of protection won't be circumvented within a week or two of release.

    2. Re:Copying ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >But how many game owners make backup copies of his game CDs ?

      I do. I only buy a couple of games a year, so it's not a big hassle - I started doing this after losing two games (==$100) to scratched CDs.

      > And do people really want to argue that the majority of game CDs burned are for legitimate reasons?

      I don't want to argue anything - I don't care what the majority does or does not do. *I* am entitled *by law* to make a backup copy of *my* software.

    3. Re:Copying ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I *always* make copies of any games I purchase (and I don't pirate games). Most companies have some random, 8 week, $10-$20 replacement policy for defective media. 8 cents for a piece of blank media seems like a cheap bit of insurance against that stupidity.

      I put the games away in a safe, locked place.

      With a 2 year old in the house, this has paid off more than once.

      So, yes, some of us have a damned good reason for wanting to make a backup of some random game/software.

      All of this becomes a moot point with network games -- since you have to have a CD key to enable the game, that key can be used as part of the authentication with the network. If the company sees N logins coming from the same key, they can be assured the key has been distributed -- zap the key.

    4. Re:Copying ? by Jester99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The installation instructions for Doom ][ (v1.666 baby!) actually specifically stated "Step 1: Find five formatted diskettes. Create an archive copy of all five Doom ][ installation diskettes."

      And you know what? Two years later when on a whim I wanted to put Doom on my newer machine, one of id's disks had gone to the great bitbucket in the sky. But I had a second copy, right there. John Carmack, bless you.

      You don't have to argue that the majority of game CDs are burned for legitimate reasons. The point is that there are legitimate reasons. If my game CD is destroyed (they only have a 5-10 year life expectancy after all), then what do I do? Either use the archive CD (oops, don't have one), or search for it on KaZaA. (Hey, I legally bought it, I can download it right? Oh, wait, they made it uncopyable. So I suppose it wouldn't be available on KaZaA then, would it?)

  5. Score one for overzealous web filters! by gblues · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Anyone care to post a mirror for those of us who cannot view the site thanks to workplace filters?

    Nathan

  6. well by 2000+Britneys · · Score: 3, Insightful

    this copy protection seems to be pretty good, how ever how long till someone will come up with another magic permanent marker fix to get rid off it?

    and this bit of info:

    "I was also told that No-CD hacks are not something these folks care much about. A couple of folks told me that No-CD hacks are pretty benign and if it keeps a loyal customer happy, they are ok with it. It is the copy and dissemination of the originals that seems to be what they are worried about."

    semms to indicate that they are not worried about a casual copying of their media but rather want to prevent wide scale comercial copying by the "sham wham" industry giants out of Tiwan and China

  7. Re:"legit copies" and games by WinPimp2K · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, a "legit" copy can simply be a no-CD crack so you can keep the distribution CD safely in its jewel case rather than sitting in the drive. Of course, you are probably too young to remember the days of key disks (back in the days of 360K DSDD 5.25" floppies) and how big a pain in the butt they were then.

    Updating the key disk copy protection scam does continue to do more to inconvenience legitimate users than it does to prevent piracy. It was that way in 1982 and it is still that way today. And of course the newest version of this particular snake oil scam does require that the publishers buy special media - just like it did back then except that the snake oil peddlers have had 20 more years to refine their paranoia inducing sales pitches.

    So, the new snake oil costs more than the old snake oil, and the companies buying the stuff are now protected from "piracy". Pity they didn't think about protecting themselves from quackery.

    --

    You either believe in rational thought or you don't
  8. How are we supposed to make backups? by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This is getting crazy. How the hell am I suppoed to make a backup? I buy all my s/w but this crap might make me spend a little more time on P2P is you know what I mean.

    Dear HardAss Publishers,

    If you do this en-masse, you will force many honest people to hit P2P so they can avoid your draconian DRM and copy-restrictive, fair-use bashing tactics.

    Regards,

    Buying Public

  9. Re:Timeline by commonchaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh wait, today is the 10th...

  10. Re:How not to buy sight unseen? by athakur999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Probably the same way as you determine if nearly every other product out there is worth your dough. Read reviews, ask your friends, try a sample/demo, etc.

    If game makers don't provide some way for people to try out a game with demos, etc., that's their problem if they want to lose money. But that still doesn't give you the right to download the ISO freely off of Kazaa...

    --
    "People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
  11. Re:How not to buy sight unseen? by entrippy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Er, Demos?

    Like, those ones that almost every games company releases? That end up on magazine cover disks every month?

    Besides, the "casual player behind dial up" isn't downloading ISOs - they're the ones who buy retail.

    And further, just because you haven't tested it doesn't give you some "right" to pirate. If you want to pirate games, go for it. Knock yourself out. Just don't try and justify it with the "I was only trying it out" claptrap.

  12. Re:How not to buy sight unseen? by CaffeineAddict2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How do you know a football game is going to be any good before you pay for a one-seat license?

    You don't. You have to take risks for some rewards.

  13. Copies?? How about just playing? by Zygote-IC- · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that all this will do is frustrate the average joe trying to make legit copies, as the various groups online distributing ISO's are sure to find a way to bypass yet this new technology."

    This security software being used to thwart piracy of computer games has done nothing but force me to those sources in order to play the game at all.
    Three times in the last year I've bought software only to find that the "security software" on the CD is incompatible with my drive.
    I actually told the EA guy that the only thing this seemed to prevent was me from playing the game I bought legally. He said he was sorry and offered a refund but that still doesn't allow me to play the game.
    So I go to the dark side, download the crack, and play the game.
    My boxed copy sits on my bookshelf because I have to turn to the pirates to play a game that you want to keep out of the hands of pirates..oh the irony.
    And those bastards still have my money. I'm such a sucker.

  14. Other Methods ... by mustangdavis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Instead of doing lame ass physical security, try something like what the folks at Blizzard did with War Craft III.

    Yes, it doesn't stop people from pirating the game, but checking CD keys and such to see how often they are used when playing online (what fun is a game if you can't play it online?) seems to be a fairly good way to keep your "average" kiddie pirate from stealing your software.

    Besides, if you make your game/software good enough, people generally will want to support it. To all software companies: How about worrying more about the quality of your products and wasting less time figuring out how to prevent people from stealing them???

    --
    HallmarkOrnaments.Com
  15. How could this possibly work? by Trogre · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the physical structure can be determined by a CD reader, then surely that can be mimicked by a CD writer?

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  16. Devils Advocate by Syncdata · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let me first state that Safedisk Securerom, et all simply make the casual pirate a savvy pirate, while frustrating paying customers with no intention of stealing their product. They are not in any way effective. That having been said...

    I am frustrated reading the response here, with unplausable justifications about why these are bad, and justifications for copying disks in a legal sense.
    I'm as slovenly with my CD's as your average bear, and as of today, my CD drive can read any disk I own, regardless of damage, including Sam'n max, and god knows that disk is jacked.
    The main (99.44%) reason a person would make a copy of a disk, is not for archival, or any other such purpose, but to give/sell to a friend. Every high school in every city in this nation has a guy who sells burnt disks, and mods systems for a price. And I encourage that little entrepreneurial bastard. But do companies have every right to try and shut that kid down by protecting their media in whatever method they see fit? Yes. Is Secure-rom it? No. But apparently it's effective enough, because people are complaining.

    --
    "Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
  17. Don't buy the game / audio... by nuxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know... If you don't like the fact that certain vendors are using a certain type of protection, you could always not buy the game. I don't mean pirate it, I mean just plain old don't buy it, don't play it, don't do anything with it.

    It's not like your rights are being infringed on by someone choosing to copy protect their game. You don't HAVE to buy it. You don't HAVE to be a consumer. You can CHOOSE for yourself to skip that product because you don't like some aspect of it. That is truely voting with your dollars and your feet.

  18. Not even spyware by RatBastard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They don't even need to install spyware (a la Gator), all they need to do is put in "cracked" codes that tell the program to call home and rat you out, or send you to "special" servers, or cripple your ping.

    --
    Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
  19. This won't do that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once it's cracked, and that won't take long, a general purpose cracker will be written that will crack anything with this kind of protection. That has happened already for both SafeDisc v1 and v2, LaserLock, all prior version of SecureROM and so on. It's really not very hard for a skilled cracker to break these protections apparently, and one it's done, they can (and do) just write a utility that will break it.

  20. You know by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't have 160GB of harddisk space for no reason. Among other reasons, I have it so I can install everything to my HD and not have to worry about grabbing CDs when I want to use software. I want ot do a full install, and then be done with it. Put the CDs in the box and leave them there. Well, all my application software seems to be perfectly happy to let me do this. Office, Vegas, Visio, and so on were all perfectly happy to be installed and then just run of the harddisk. However almost all my game seem to want their CD, despite the fact that they have all the files on the harddrive. All they do is a stupid copy protection check. This is really annoying. I don't want to sort through a stack of disks to find the one for the game I want to play when it's already on the drive.

    It seems app makers are prefectly able to make money with out assinine copyprotections,. why are games so different?

    1. Re:You know by liquidsin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most apps are for productivity, and most companies are willing to pay for legal copies of software that they find useful. Most games, on the other hand, are played by teens and college students (not to say that there aren't older gamers, but a higher percentage of teens are gamers than are 40 yr olds) and most people who fit that age bracket don't have the money for all the new games and don't have any qualms using warezed copies. Not to say that it's justified, but that's how it is. App developers can rely on the honesty of their target customers more than game developers.

      --
      do not read this line twice.