Slashdot Mirror
The Nation of Macintosh?
Devon Avenger writes "A new short British film has been released according to this article at Wired depicting a cult of Macintosh fanatics who are organised in a manner reminiscent of the Nation of Islam."
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
First thought: This is stupid, but lets keep reading.
So now I get to this little gem: It's about that whole religious fervor that grabs Mac users the way it doesn't with users of other platforms," said writer/director Jake Barnes, who described himself as a "recovering Mac addict."
Has Jake Barnes every met a linux user? Or a BSD user? Or a VMS user? Or hell, a BeOS or OS/2 user? He probably just looked at windows and thought "well 90% of the known universe uses it, so how excited can Hip Bob be when booting it up". He has failed to see the amount of umm... love some non-microsoft and non-apple people have for their computers. I mean come on... linux... what is there not to love. Hell even IBM spraypaints "Peace. Love. Linux." on stuff. Oh well... need coffee.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
As a long time mac advocate, forced windows user and linux sysadmin . . . explain to me how mac advocates are significantly different than linux geeks who insist that Linux is the one true un*x, the one to rule them all . . .
Its not enough that Microsoft has the vast majority of the desktop.
Its not enough that the macintosh has been derided for the past 20 years as a toy, as inferior, and as the machine that is more style than substance.
Its not enough that we had a good solid ten years of the tech media announcing that apple was going out of business- never mind that when they first started making that claim, apple had more sales revenue than Microsoft!
Its not enough that most half educated self-styled geeks think macs are slow.
Or that theirs a cult of mac hatred, mac bashing, and downright viciousness directed at anyone who dares to buy the computer that is not the one ordained by the powers that be as the be all, end all, "how dare you want something else".
Its not enough that despite better economics of mac software, we've had 20 years of idiot marketing types canceling mac products to focus on windows (And then losing to microsoft in the end.)
Its not enough that bigotry and hatred towards mac users is wide spread among computer enthusiasts- and is not only tolerated but encouraged.
No, none of these are enough.
Now we need to start comparing mac users to terrorists?
Its continually amazing how threatened so many people are that some segment of the population buys the computer that works best for them.
How can you be so threatened at people thinking for themselves? Oh yeah, that's right, this is a nation that worships conformity.
This is a sad state of affairs. And some of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
These users is the reason to why Apple has been able to survive the late 80s and early 90s when the x86 ran away from then performance wise.
It is fun to notice all these little fanatic communities for all old computers: Atari, Amiga, ABC80, Spectrum, C64...
It is nice to see that some of us aren't here just for performance and the latest games!
Why is it ANYONE who does not use Microsoft products is considered a religious zealout? I'm serious. This has been going on for over 13 years now.
Way back when there WAS computer diversity, it was no different. If you used an Amiga, you were a zealot. If you liked OS/2, you were a zealot. But if you used Windows, you were the bastion of sanity and reason! (never mind the crashing, the unreliability, etc). And this was in an era when Windows did NOT have the majority (yet). And this was primarily a North American attitude, as well.
So now we have Mac users AGAIN being branded as fantics and zealots. What has changed? The smarmy attitude of Windows drones is more like a dominant religion, in my opinion. The Cult of Bill is far more repugnant than a few stalwarts who want to compute differently.
I have to say that I think that the Cult of Macintosh is pretty much dead.
Yeah, there are still Mac fanatics, but just like the suffragettes, the Cult of Macintosh faded when it won.
The Macintosh successfully delivered the GUI desktop paradigm to the masses. After that, well, anyone applauding Windows 95+ was also supporting the ideals that the Macintosh was successfully promoting into the marketplace - like it or not.
Sure, the Mac had some really really dark days... mostly in the late 80's, early 90's when that Pepsi guy was pretending to run the place.
But again Apple has taken the industry to a new level, with computers that push design and function, and with a real, extendable, fairly open, standards-friendly OS behind it.
In any case, the war is over. Maybe Apple didn't win all the love and money. But it propelled the industry forward on many, many fronts.
Thank goodness for comapies like Apple pushing innovation into the marketplace. Maybe someday Microsoft will be able to do the same.
Nah, they have no incentive to do that.
"...who are organised in a manner reminiscent of the Nation of Islam."
I'm muslim, and I don't want to be associated with idiots who use the religion as a scapegoat, don't comment on the religion as a whole, that's a underhanded comment that shows your narrow mind, your lack of understanding is appauling, the religion is not far different from christianity or judaism (excuse the spelling), as it is a derivative of sorts (just like christianity being a derivative of judaism), we don't believe in ridiculous things as religious sucide giving you 6 virgins or some other shit, far from it, in fact according to our religion, suicide is one of the unforgiveable sins that damns you to an eternity in hell. I have to dispel these myths, and I hope you will get over the stereotype.
What difference does it make? You obviously understood what was implied, are you some kind of prepubescent spelling Nazi?
Get back in your cage, and don't come out till you have something constructive to say.
I'm convinced the reason behind it is that the typical Mac user is someone who is not very technical and was perhaps intimidated by using a computer, so when they figured out how to use their Mac they get a certain sense of pride and accomplishment which they in turn morph into zealotry.
Common misconception. Most Mac users are creative professionals that have no NEED to learn the inner workings of computers and the technical details of their machines. It has nothing to do w/ "pride" in figuring out how to use it. It has to do with the perceived ability of the Mac to facilitate their creativity.
Like you said, this is changing. With many *nix heads coming over to the Mac camp, the average tech savvy-ness of the Mac user IS going up. However, please remember that a great majority of Wintel users can't even figure out how to use AOL by themselves, let alone use Final Cut Pro to create a full-length movie w/out a manual.
And there are PLENTY of tech savvy mac users. I happen to be one of them. I've been building x86 boxes since the 286, worked on every flavor of windows, use linux regularly, and have ALWAYS preferred Macs.
People with no vision are always the first to deride those with style. People with style are always the first to help out those with no vision.
I noticed that the dev guys were very calm and rational people, pretty much just the opposite of the Mac user
Maybe that's because instead of having to crunch their brains fixing problems (which, trust me, the high-level OS engineers at Apple would behave the same way as your BSD dev team) with a kernel, most Mac END-users are EXCITED that they have enough free time after getting all their work done cuz their machines don't crash freeze ask for money or otherwise hinder functional use.
Just a thought.
no the loss was mostly due to the stock market falling and affecting the value of the stock apple holds (or something), before that was taken into account they made a slim profit
why not get an old Mac for a few quid off Ebay or something? the Mac cult accepts all owners
Interesting indeed.
;)
Speaking as an old Amiga user who's now a Mac user, I'd have to say you're way off base here.
The comment about 'typical' Mac users not being very technical doesn't hold (after all what percentage of Windows users do you know qualify as remotely tech-savy?) and whifs somewhat of intellectual/technical snobbery when you stop and think about it.
My theory is that the reason users on both platforms tend/tended to be enthuisasts is that we derive a lot of pleasure from using well designed machines/OSes (OK so there's a flaw in my argument there with pre-OS X Mac-users
I just upgraded to FC Pro so I could do some stuff with a project I can't do with iMovie. The elegance of the product is really astounding. It's well thought-out - it scales down to my incredible level of ignorance well, and it produces a beautiful product. When I wanted to make the movie, here's what I needed: Mac, FCPro, video cam w/ Firewire.
Now I suppose Adobe Premiere on a beefy Windows machine could do the same, but I'm getting nervous just thinking about it. I use Windows every day and consider myself a very proficient user. (blech)
So what do I need to do the same project? I suppose:
Premiere, Beefy Windows-based Machine (XP? 98? 2000?) - I'm guessing 2000, but that's just a guess - So I have to downgrade. And the right video card - Oh my gosh! Which one shall I get? Hmm.. And I forgot: I need a FIREWIRE card b/c they aren't standard on most PCs. Oh crap. Firewire drivers, Oh yeah - video card drivers. What, there's a conflict (IRQ?) between my add-on FW card and my add-on HD. CRAP! See what I mean?
Before you write "Dude, you're stupid" I'll concede the point. I'm stupid. You got me.
But I am smart enough to figure out how to run FC Pro in some fashion or another, produce multimedia, etc. etc.. and I'm pretty sure I'm smart enough to puzzle out all the Windows crap, BUT I DON'T WANT TO. I'm smart enough to get my work done, and that's all I care about. I don't like "computers" and I don't want to spend half my life figuring out why they don't work.
Yes, it's a blog. Sorry if that offends you.
You know what it is about Mac users? People who 'discover' the Mac (or Linux/*nix for that matter) and like it more than Windows feel like they've made this major leap. They know 90% of the planet isn't aware of any other OSes because they used to be one of those people, not too long ago.... so it's hard not to feel smug.
Look at the reaction of any newly converted users. They are flabbergasted at the difference. Again, goes for both Linux and Mac... really, it's not hard to see why. Not for the people in here.
This actually goes with my larger theory that only 90% of the planet even cares, or can objectively see the difference between a good UI and a bad one. Hence, Apple remains at 5~10% (don't give me the 4% figure, I've never believed that).
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
There are Windows zealots, they're just lost in the crowd of point-and-drool Windows users that have no idea that "computer" doesn't necissarily mean "Wintel".
I mean, what about the scores of MCSE monkeys that think every other operating system outside of Windows is a toy? Isn't that a type of zealotry? They're not going out and actively preaching Windows but they're passively dissmissing any other platform. There's plenty of Kool-aid to be drunk that's coming out of Redmond.
If the movie's any good, they'll have a confrontation between a mac zealot and an MCSE monkey that tells him "Macs can't network." I'm picturing a Steve Martin type reaction from the movie "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" when somebody mentions "cleaning woman".
"smack[ing] the Mac on the back and attack"...
He probably said Mack, which means pimp.
Now, if Apple used Malcolm in a "Think Different" ad, that would be different. I myself get pretty pissed at the use of Gandhi, Cesar Chavez, etc. to sell computers. Frank Sinatra, not so much... :)
stripShow - Where WordPress meets webcomics
Slashdot spends *a lot* of time talking about Apple. I'm not entirely sure how Uncle Steve built his company to attact so much attention, but it just seems that we talk about it a lot.
:)
As far as the Cult of Steve, I am a member, having recently returned from exile in the PC wilderness. Ah, how nice it is to return to the warmth of the Reality Distortion Field, where all benchmarks are Photoshop and all the UI components are lickably delicious.
Macs aren't the only products that inspire fanatical devotion (see comments re Linux, BSD, etc.). Not even just computers (shocking, isn't it?). Have you ever met people who drive Saturns? We're rather fanatical about our friendly dealerships and polymer side panels (dent resistant *and* rust proof
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, its too dark to read.
I think I'm missing something...where are we talking about religious suicide holy war? Not in the article we're not. We're talking about the Nation of Islam - as in the organization currently headed by Louis Farrakan - who's mission is (off the top of my head) a seperate all-black state, not the Nation of all Islamic people (as in the geopolitical sense). It's not a particularly Muslim organization; it's mostly about black empowrement.
I don't like stereotyping, but this is exactly what the above is: somone read it, saw the word 'Islam' and instantly thought "terrorism blaming! terrorism blaming!" without seeing the context.
More power to you for defending your faith. But try and read what the context and the article is before you go calling everyone racist. Unless you're actually Nation yourself, in which case you're allowed to be offended.
Cue The Sun...
I think that is what Microsoft capitalizes upon is a sense of conformity and 'normalcy' as much as they can promote. Anything but safe Windows seems strange and unusual, making most uncomfortable at the prospect of adopting alternatives.
It keeps people in line by their own natural reaction to strange and unknown things.
Kalen D'arrie
I'd wager that most Windows users aren't that technical either. I think your logic is flawed.
Kalen D'arrie
Nation of Islam <> Islam
Parodies of Nation of Islam (the racist political organization) usually aren't saying much about Islam (the religion).
All non-windows users are not considered zealot. Perhaps you should look up the definition of the word. If you use a Mac and like, good for you, you're a computer user. If you use a Mac and take every opportunity to point ot aupposed flaws in my system of choice and to bray about your system of choice, you are a Zealot.
I see the Macsterbators have lots of moderator points today!
Blar.
They tried, but exposing them to Alan Cox kept shattering the expensive DV equipment. Then uploaded the video to their Linux boxes to edit it and forgot that it wasn't worth the effort. (For all of those with your panties in a knot, that's a joke. It's perfectly legitimate to poke fun at people.)
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
And thus, I leave slashdot.
You need to get out of the house more, kid. I'm sick and tired of hearing the incessant bitching and whining about the slashdot moderation system. This is slashdot - your comments and views are being thrown into the mix with 12 year olds, the janitor from Radio Shack, legit geeks, and bored out of work guys.
By looking at your profile, you've been around long enough and certainly posted more than enough to be an occasional moderator yourself. Put up or shut up - the only worthwhile thing you can do is moderate responsibly. Whining about it is a waste of your time, my time, and any other poor schmuck who bothered to read your post.
If someone mods you down, remember, this is just slashdot! I swear some people need to go into therapy just because their shitty post got modded down by a thirteen year old.
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
... you've been using a computer operating system that crashes all of the time, destroys your data, gets infected with virii, acts as a Graphical User In-Your-Face, getting in your way and making you stumble and thrash around, then finding out there is a better way that works for you!
I think using Windows is like running with cement blocks on my feet! It gets in my way and slows me down. After purchasing and using a Mac for a few weeks, I've really started to notice how badly Windows is slowing me down in my daily tasks. In particular, the multi-tasking on Windows seems extremely sluggish now, whereas I very rarely even see the "Beach Ball" on Jaguar.
Someone above mentioned that it isn't just Mac fans who can get fanatical, but also Linux, Be/OS, Amiga, OS/2, etc. And that is because they see so many folks who think that computers are supposed to be big, bulky albatrosses tied around our necks instead of productivity tools. I hate to see people who think they are stupid just because Windows crashes or gives them trouble, and they don't understand why! I always want to try and help those people see that there are better O/S's out there that they could use.
However, to be labeled a fanatic nowadays, all you have to do is try to explain to someone stuck in the herd that there might be a different, better way.
dochood
The problem isn't wanting to be different. The problem is some Mac users (and you are one of them) seem to think they are superior to everyone else. It gets even more pedantic and more ridiculous when you start talking about things you don't understand (such as hardware architecture) and caliming that somehow a Mac is faster than, say, an Athlon XP 2600+, or a Pentium 4 @ 2.8GHz, when all evidence in the real world (both real software benchmarks and actual computer use) shows the exact opposite. So when the facts are against you, you (I mean you personally) play the victim.
Macs are home computers. They have an historical presence in some areas (sound editing, design) but that presence is diminishing every day. Just like most people don't ride horses anymore.
Even Apple admits that all they do is think different(ly). They don't say they're better or faster or cheaper. They're not. Better is a subjective concept, and Macs are slower than more epxensive than PCs. For some people, the benefits make up for those factors.
It doesn't mean intelligent people can't like Macs, but it doesn't mean everyone who likes Macs is intelligent. And you are a very good example of that.
It's back up to five. I see only rare examples of good on-topic posts that stay down for long, even if they go to -1.
People who complain about the moderation here have too small a sample rate.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
At least, that's what this /. poll says as of 12:57 EST on 17 October 2002.
Sure, the poll is not scientific, but even its fuzzy numbers (Bushism disavowed) tell us something, and that something is that a full 15% of the ultra-geek crowd totes Apple hardware, and this not even 2 years into Apple's targeting that crowd with OS X
Complain all you want about "small" market share, but my sense is that this is not the last you'll see of this turning tide.
Apple have *always* offered better consumer machines (if you don't count 1995-1997) and now that they have the OS of OS's to boot, the geeks are noticing. The Reality Distortion Field works two ways, it can prevent you from seeing reality and it can also change your reality.
Reality used to be an all-Windows world. Well, it still sort of is, but not where it counts, deep down inside, among some of us nerds and artists and . . . well, some of us.
blog
People don't "love" Linux or Mac OS or OS/2. They think they do, and they like them, but they don't "love" them. They just bitterly hate being forced to pay large sums of money to use the sluggish, buggy, oddly not-fun Windows.
I realized this after I'd used a number of non-Windows operating systems and realized that I actually enjoyed using them -- the operating system itself, not the games or whatever written for the OS. All of them. Mac OS was elegant and had some amazing concepts. Lots of people doing binary hacks for it, and tons of good spirit and fun among the community. Linux is the same way, but with source instead of binary hacks, and a more techie community.
Windows has this bland feeling to it. You'd use it for work, but simply using and poking at the machine isn't really enjoyable.
Oh, and you can get *annoyed* with a non-Windows operating system -- like not having the GNU utils on Solaris...but I wouldn't really call that the same thing. There's no fundamental dislike in place.
May we never see th
I'm going to get modded to death for this, but someone has to say it...
/that/ bad as a product. For a huge chunk of the user population (not just the usual BS "Word and E-mail" comparisons) it's a damn good choice. If you want to play the majority of new games, you pretty well need Windows, if you want to use some classes of applications (3d software is the one that affects me) then you need Windows, if you want to use the majority of off-the-shelf hardware easily, then you need Windows. It's also nowhere near as unstable as /.'ers claim, and pre-XP, the licensing isn't that evil.
Windows isn't
I'm not going to buy XP, because I loathe M$ as a company. So at some point I'm going to be moving, but I doubt it'll be towards proprietry hardware or pretty translucent cases where I can't even change the video card.
You think this shit is whack? Take a look at the cycling world. I know people who won't ride bikes because of the material the frame is made out of. "Steel is the only material for a frame," or "I won't ever buy a bike that's not titanium."
Everyone has their toys. Some people need to think they have the best toys, tho.
I am a believer of momentum and curves.
Funny how so many people find it hard to believe that a black rapper would use a computer to assist in composing his music. How is it more plausible that he juices his creativity by using a machine gun or by hanging with a pimp?
If you are a professional musician that is in the forefront of using samples, mixes and impossible bass, wouldn't you assume that he used software to achieve much of his sound? I guess that's too much of a stretch for some to believe.