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Palm Tungsten Models Reviewed
Jason Weill writes "MSNBC has a slightly premature review of Palm's brand-new Tungsten models. These models, currently (as of 11:10 PM EST Sunday) unavailable on Palm's own web site, are the Tungsten T and Tungsten W. The Tungsten T includes a fold-out Graffiti area, new cross-key keypad, 144 MHz ARM processor, Palm OS 5, a 320x320 full-color screen, and 16 MB of on-board RAM. At $499, it's more expensive than most handhelds currently on the market. The Tungsten W replaces the Graffiti area with a thumb keyboard and includes GSM/GPRS phone capabilities. Unlike the Handspring Treo devices, the Tungsten W only works with a handset -- you can't put it up to your ear. The Tungsten W will cost $549, although most American service providers will subsidize at least part of the cost. These models will officially be unveiled Monday, October 28."
Allen Wrench: "Help! They found me in a meteor! I need tungsten to live! TTUUUNNNGGGSSSTTEEENN!"
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
144mhz ARM with 16MB of RAM, along with a nice screen that fits in your hand -- that destroys the Gameboy Advance's 17mhz CPU and measly 256k of RAm.
If PC games took off with the gaming enthusiasts to replace consoles, handhelds should soon become a thriving gaming market to replace Gameboys.
With that much power, a GBA emulator could even be ported to it!
"When Palm talks, the industry listens. And users sometimes drool"
The industry then laughs, as their marketshare increase due do stupid palm decisions.
Users on the other hand are probably drooling because they are sleeping through palm's big announcement, having realized long ago, that palm has overpromised and underdelivered over and over.
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
I only paid $190 for my cell phone and it does everything the palm does, plus surfs the internet and receives full blown email without having to add a modem attachment. It also has a .3 MegaPixel digital camera in it. Why would anyone pay 3x as much for a heavier, less useful toy?
Just curious
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
This thing's more powerful than my old Pentium that I'm using as a router and small webserver right now.. =/ My router is running linux on a 120 MHz box with 32 MB RAM...
Here's another review from the folks at InfoSync: http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495.html.
Looks nice, but I don't see myself replacing my PalmIIIc yet (c'mon... someone make a non-Sony Palm that's as compelling!)
you can't put it up to your ear
I bet you can.
Must....Resist....New....Gadget....Must....Be Strong....
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Palm has had five years to get their act together when it comes to PDA functionality. I hate to say it, but the PocketPC devices are far superior to anything that Palm has had to date. The ability to play full-length color feature movies, MP3s, true wireless internet with a real web browser, document creation, PDF reading, chat, console emulators, and actual MULTITASKING has been available for over a year and a half now.
In short, there's no excuse for this device. Palm is dead in the water. For *LESS* than $499 I can get an 802.11b-equipped full color Toshiba E740 that will outrun, outgun, and outfeature any of Palm's new devices. Kiss your butts goodbye, Palm. This isn't 1997, this is almost 2003, and you just sat around on your market share. Watch Small-and-Flaccid(TM) eat the rest of your lunch now.
Also announced today was the Stowaway XT - AKA Palm Ultra Thin. If you're familier with PDAs you probably know of the Stowaway- the cool foldable keybaord for PDAs. Well they made a new one, just half as small. Seriously. Same full size keyboard- a preview of it is available here
I'm glad to see the new Tungsten series and Palm OS 5 finally come out. Now, only time will tell whether or not this device becomes successful.
I think Palm OS 5 will be a winner, as long as it does its mainstay well, while adding on some new features and doing those well too. In other words, it does all the organizing you need it to do and it puts that ARM to use.
The only problem I see with the T is the sliding mechanism. Anytime there's physical movement involved with a product like this, you have to wonder how long it'll last. If it's nice and durable, there goes my one complaint about the T. If it's really fragile, users won't like that much at all.
Myself, I hope to get one of these things after they come down in price.
Not what I want in a handheld device, at least.
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
The same people who paid that much for less than 2 shares of VA Linux?
Oh wait... It's not 1999 anymore. I dunno. NOBODY???
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
If Palm really was losing sales to PocketPC, then this is exactly what they need. But it doesn't make me want to run out and buy one.
What I have always liked best about Palm PDAs is that they run forever on their batteries. Palm is claiming the new device is good for a week of typical use, but how much is that? The InfoSync review notes that under a torture test, the battery life was a little under 3 hours.
I was pleased to read that the emulation mode runs current PalmOS programs fast enough. Recompiled applications should be very fast.
While in many ways it sounds tasty, I don't really want one right now. And the price is going to need to fall in half before I'll even consider it.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
With the way cell phones are advancing, why buy one? Cell phones already have games, messaging, logs, and other electronic accessories.
"Those Slashdot editors are right... If I had moderator points - bam!"
Your post is blatant flamebait. Cell phones are NOT PDAs for SEVERAL reasons:
Games and other applications are tightly controlled by the cell phone provider. While you may be able to find "cellphone Java" (the name of the Java variant they run escapes me) applications, good luck getting them to download to your phone. Cell phones ALREADY HAVE the worst of what we expect Palladium to be. If an app isn't signed and delivered (usually with a FEE) to your cell phone by your cell phone provider, you're not getting it on there. Another nice feature of some applications is that they expire or require you to be using Internet airtime minutes while they're running. Even if you want to download something as simple as images or ringtones to your phone, you're likely to be hit with a download fee and only able to download from your cell phone provider or a company that has an agreement with your provider.
Next comes the issue of getting data onto your phone... The screen is small and the entry interface (press each button over, and over, and over) is awful. You can't begin to compare it to the Palm or any other PDA at all.
Cell phones are designed to be a glorified phonebook and self-setting clock if you don't pay for service. The providers nickel and dime you for every feature you're used to getting for FREE with a PDA or portable PC device. If you want wireless communication - get a cell phone. If you want a personal digital assistant - get a Palm.
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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
The slide-open design is kind of nifty, but I have concerns about durability. Moving parts are typically the first things to go, but in the case of this, it's not like a flip-cover or something that can be easily replaced.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
First of all you need a *headset* not a handset. Who the heck is going to carry around a handset when they already have a cell phone inside the W? That doesn't make sense.
... just hold the thing to your head without any flip up plastic crap.
Secondly, they're just showing that no one gets the form factor yet. I don't want to have a headset sticking in my ear all the time, but I don't want to hold a big-ass product like the Treo up to my head either (talk about dorky-looking). The new RIM blackberry has a better idea
They still miss the mark though. I'm going to get my cheekmarks all over the screen and that's no good.
I don't know what the right formfactor is, but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe some kind of clamshell design where the keyboard's on the bottom and the screen's on the top. IT'll open 75% in phone mode, like a startac or whatever, or it'll open 100% in palm mode.
home page
This is the first Palm PDA that will have an Ogg player. It has enough horsepower under the hood to run a software MP3 decoder, so an Ogg player will be possible. Which in turn means that someone will write one!
I wonder how many hours of life you will get from one battery while playing Ogg or MP3 music, with the screen blanked.
You could carry some sort of emergency charger that uses AA cells or something. But that sort of defeats the smallness and convenience; you might as well carry some small player like the Diva.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
My Palm m505 already has video clips on it, thanks to MGI's PhotoSuite, which came *included* with the Palm m505. As for it being able to do wave files... so what? PCM Wave files are big. One song takes around 40mb. With 16mb, we'll only be getting maybe audio clips of thirty seconds. So what's the point of having it? And one last gripe... graphics-intensive games are also usually space intensive - Diablo 2 didn't come on 3 CD's because of it's story line, I can tell you that much!
The Raven
The Raven
Begging your pardon? Isn't this a GSM phone? Do the US carriers lock users in even on GSM networks? What's the point of having GSM then if you can't use whatever phone you like on whatever network you want and roam freely?
We may be behind the US on a lot of things here in Europe, but at least we got that right. My cellular carrier doesn't care, and it's none of their business, what kind of phone I use and where I bought it.
Speaking of my phone, I own a Nokia 7650. Can't see replacing it for the new Palm anytime soon, the Nokia does the same job in a smaller package.
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
However, the software isn't all that great. Basically, under PalmOS 5, your application code runs as interpreted 68k instructions. Only system calls and some specially written subroutines (which, presumably, cannot make system calls), run as native ARM code. Presumably, this will get fixed with PalmOS 6.
What apparently won't get fixed is the basic PalmOS architecture. PalmOS was designed as a very lightweight OS for simple PDA applications: calendaring, TODO lists, etc., on very simple devices. It was fine for that: small and memory efficient.
But $500 devices like the Tungsten are in a different class. With ARM processors, they are more powerful than many workstations of a few years ago. You don't need that kind of device for basic PDA functionality--just buy a $100 Zire instead.
The reason why people pay $500 for a PDA is either because they want an executive toy, or it is for running "enterprise applications", multimedia apps, scientific apps, speech recognition, etc. And for that, PalmOS just sucks: the window system and toolkit are resolution dependent and simplistic, the file system is a hack, the system lacks installers or package managers, multitasking is poor, image support is poor, and on and on.
So, what does it all mean? If you want a PDA, get a Sony SJ-30 or a Palm Zire, or a Palm m500--they are great PDAs with great built-in apps. If you want a handheld to develop custom apps for, to port software to, etc., get a Linux PDA (or a PocketPC if you must)--you'll pay less and get something that's a whole lot better for the purpose.
It was $334 when I bought it at Buy.com two months ago ($347.99 now) & I've fallen in love. Seriously, I thought they were kidding when I read the specs for the new Palms. Compare it to the Zaurus specs and decide for yourself...
The Tungsten T includes a fold-out Graffiti area, new cross-key keypad, 144 MHz ARM processor, Palm OS 5, a 320x320 full-color screen, and 16 MB of on-board RAM.
WHY do even the newest PDA's on the market still come with 16mb of memory?? I mean seriously, when I can get a 128mb CF card for ~$50, you'd think that a $500 palm with multimedia capabilities might have a little more room to work with than a fscking 386!
I'm a minister!
Yes.
Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
With Siemens M50 we have not been able to load any midlets by any means. We even set up a WAP-server, but the phone just hangs.
But I wouldn't say the applications are tightly controlled by the provider, I don't think they are actively trying to hinder people, I just think some are being stupid with how you can install them.
Well, I just purchased my second palm device this weekend. I would have stuck with the old one had it not commited suicide from the top of my gym locker. I'm not a particularly large palm fan. After all for the most part the problem with palm is that you can buy a device from 1997 today for exactly the same price. Ok, the processors are slightly faster and the new devices have more RAM (unless your talking about the zire). Other than that they are pretty much the same.
On the other hand I stuck with palm because its a useful device. I have a good graphing calculator for it, and I use it like a standard day planner with a book/news reader. My old palm IIIxe was great on batteries. They only required changing once ever few months. Combine that with the fact that the battery monitor accually seemed somewhat accurate meant that I had plenty of warning to change them. I don't want to have to carry a charging station for a week long trip. So, when I went looking for a new one I had a few things I wanted. Higher res, color screen, mp3 player, smaller, faster, more ram.
Well it turned out I bought a m500 not something with a higher res screen, color, mp3 player, or a device with more ram. I purchased it simply because it was the smallest palm I could find. My second choice was one of the little cli devices because of the higer res screen. The only problem is that for most applications the high res screen seems to be run in low res, the color isn't particularly useful, its nice to have... and its probably about 50% thicker than the m500. The m515 might have been a good choice if it had been the same size as the m500 (its about 30% thicker).
So in the end the deciding factor was size, my importance factors went something like.
Size most important, Useful battery life, high res display, ram, color, mp3 playback. In the end I came away from the whole market pretty discusted. The m500 isn't as small as I want (pcmcia card size), it has the same amount of ram(8 megs worked on the old device should contine to work) and the display is the same crappy low res greyscale.