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Palm Tungsten Models Reviewed
Jason Weill writes "MSNBC has a slightly premature review of Palm's brand-new Tungsten models. These models, currently (as of 11:10 PM EST Sunday) unavailable on Palm's own web site, are the Tungsten T and Tungsten W. The Tungsten T includes a fold-out Graffiti area, new cross-key keypad, 144 MHz ARM processor, Palm OS 5, a 320x320 full-color screen, and 16 MB of on-board RAM. At $499, it's more expensive than most handhelds currently on the market. The Tungsten W replaces the Graffiti area with a thumb keyboard and includes GSM/GPRS phone capabilities. Unlike the Handspring Treo devices, the Tungsten W only works with a handset -- you can't put it up to your ear. The Tungsten W will cost $549, although most American service providers will subsidize at least part of the cost. These models will officially be unveiled Monday, October 28."
Allen Wrench: "Help! They found me in a meteor! I need tungsten to live! TTUUUNNNGGGSSSTTEEENN!"
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
144mhz ARM with 16MB of RAM, along with a nice screen that fits in your hand -- that destroys the Gameboy Advance's 17mhz CPU and measly 256k of RAm.
If PC games took off with the gaming enthusiasts to replace consoles, handhelds should soon become a thriving gaming market to replace Gameboys.
With that much power, a GBA emulator could even be ported to it!
"When Palm talks, the industry listens. And users sometimes drool"
The industry then laughs, as their marketshare increase due do stupid palm decisions.
Users on the other hand are probably drooling because they are sleeping through palm's big announcement, having realized long ago, that palm has overpromised and underdelivered over and over.
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
I only paid $190 for my cell phone and it does everything the palm does, plus surfs the internet and receives full blown email without having to add a modem attachment. It also has a .3 MegaPixel digital camera in it. Why would anyone pay 3x as much for a heavier, less useful toy?
Just curious
I've dirtied my hands writing poetry, for the sake of seduction; that is, for the sake of a useful cause. --Dostoevsky
This thing's more powerful than my old Pentium that I'm using as a router and small webserver right now.. =/ My router is running linux on a 120 MHz box with 32 MB RAM...
Here's another review from the folks at InfoSync: http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2495.html.
Looks nice, but I don't see myself replacing my PalmIIIc yet (c'mon... someone make a non-Sony Palm that's as compelling!)
you can't put it up to your ear
I bet you can.
Must....Resist....New....Gadget....Must....Be Strong....
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
way cool.
But seriously, when is enough, enough?.
These are trying to fill a gap, somewhere between my mobile phone, and my laptop, but doesnt have enough functionality to do away with either.
With this in mind, it seems counter productive to carry yet another device around with me...
Just my 0.2c..
Palm has had five years to get their act together when it comes to PDA functionality. I hate to say it, but the PocketPC devices are far superior to anything that Palm has had to date. The ability to play full-length color feature movies, MP3s, true wireless internet with a real web browser, document creation, PDF reading, chat, console emulators, and actual MULTITASKING has been available for over a year and a half now.
In short, there's no excuse for this device. Palm is dead in the water. For *LESS* than $499 I can get an 802.11b-equipped full color Toshiba E740 that will outrun, outgun, and outfeature any of Palm's new devices. Kiss your butts goodbye, Palm. This isn't 1997, this is almost 2003, and you just sat around on your market share. Watch Small-and-Flaccid(TM) eat the rest of your lunch now.
Also announced today was the Stowaway XT - AKA Palm Ultra Thin. If you're familier with PDAs you probably know of the Stowaway- the cool foldable keybaord for PDAs. Well they made a new one, just half as small. Seriously. Same full size keyboard- a preview of it is available here
I'm glad to see the new Tungsten series and Palm OS 5 finally come out. Now, only time will tell whether or not this device becomes successful.
I think Palm OS 5 will be a winner, as long as it does its mainstay well, while adding on some new features and doing those well too. In other words, it does all the organizing you need it to do and it puts that ARM to use.
The only problem I see with the T is the sliding mechanism. Anytime there's physical movement involved with a product like this, you have to wonder how long it'll last. If it's nice and durable, there goes my one complaint about the T. If it's really fragile, users won't like that much at all.
Myself, I hope to get one of these things after they come down in price.
Not what I want in a handheld device, at least.
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
The same people who paid that much for less than 2 shares of VA Linux?
Oh wait... It's not 1999 anymore. I dunno. NOBODY???
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
For some reason the Tungsten W (Palm's answer to Handspring's Treo) is not featured on Palm's website, nor is it accessible from the products page.
/
However, the URL for Tungsten W is pretty easy to guess - http://www.palm.com/products/handhelds/tungsten-w
If Palm really was losing sales to PocketPC, then this is exactly what they need. But it doesn't make me want to run out and buy one.
What I have always liked best about Palm PDAs is that they run forever on their batteries. Palm is claiming the new device is good for a week of typical use, but how much is that? The InfoSync review notes that under a torture test, the battery life was a little under 3 hours.
I was pleased to read that the emulation mode runs current PalmOS programs fast enough. Recompiled applications should be very fast.
While in many ways it sounds tasty, I don't really want one right now. And the price is going to need to fall in half before I'll even consider it.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
With the way cell phones are advancing, why buy one? Cell phones already have games, messaging, logs, and other electronic accessories.
"Those Slashdot editors are right... If I had moderator points - bam!"
Your post is blatant flamebait. Cell phones are NOT PDAs for SEVERAL reasons:
Games and other applications are tightly controlled by the cell phone provider. While you may be able to find "cellphone Java" (the name of the Java variant they run escapes me) applications, good luck getting them to download to your phone. Cell phones ALREADY HAVE the worst of what we expect Palladium to be. If an app isn't signed and delivered (usually with a FEE) to your cell phone by your cell phone provider, you're not getting it on there. Another nice feature of some applications is that they expire or require you to be using Internet airtime minutes while they're running. Even if you want to download something as simple as images or ringtones to your phone, you're likely to be hit with a download fee and only able to download from your cell phone provider or a company that has an agreement with your provider.
Next comes the issue of getting data onto your phone... The screen is small and the entry interface (press each button over, and over, and over) is awful. You can't begin to compare it to the Palm or any other PDA at all.
Cell phones are designed to be a glorified phonebook and self-setting clock if you don't pay for service. The providers nickel and dime you for every feature you're used to getting for FREE with a PDA or portable PC device. If you want wireless communication - get a cell phone. If you want a personal digital assistant - get a Palm.
---
DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
The slide-open design is kind of nifty, but I have concerns about durability. Moving parts are typically the first things to go, but in the case of this, it's not like a flip-cover or something that can be easily replaced.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
First of all you need a *headset* not a handset. Who the heck is going to carry around a handset when they already have a cell phone inside the W? That doesn't make sense.
... just hold the thing to your head without any flip up plastic crap.
Secondly, they're just showing that no one gets the form factor yet. I don't want to have a headset sticking in my ear all the time, but I don't want to hold a big-ass product like the Treo up to my head either (talk about dorky-looking). The new RIM blackberry has a better idea
They still miss the mark though. I'm going to get my cheekmarks all over the screen and that's no good.
I don't know what the right formfactor is, but I haven't seen it yet. Maybe some kind of clamshell design where the keyboard's on the bottom and the screen's on the top. IT'll open 75% in phone mode, like a startac or whatever, or it'll open 100% in palm mode.
home page
This is the first Palm PDA that will have an Ogg player. It has enough horsepower under the hood to run a software MP3 decoder, so an Ogg player will be possible. Which in turn means that someone will write one!
I wonder how many hours of life you will get from one battery while playing Ogg or MP3 music, with the screen blanked.
You could carry some sort of emergency charger that uses AA cells or something. But that sort of defeats the smallness and convenience; you might as well carry some small player like the Diva.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
My Palm m505 already has video clips on it, thanks to MGI's PhotoSuite, which came *included* with the Palm m505. As for it being able to do wave files... so what? PCM Wave files are big. One song takes around 40mb. With 16mb, we'll only be getting maybe audio clips of thirty seconds. So what's the point of having it? And one last gripe... graphics-intensive games are also usually space intensive - Diablo 2 didn't come on 3 CD's because of it's story line, I can tell you that much!
The Raven
The Raven
Begging your pardon? Isn't this a GSM phone? Do the US carriers lock users in even on GSM networks? What's the point of having GSM then if you can't use whatever phone you like on whatever network you want and roam freely?
We may be behind the US on a lot of things here in Europe, but at least we got that right. My cellular carrier doesn't care, and it's none of their business, what kind of phone I use and where I bought it.
Speaking of my phone, I own a Nokia 7650. Can't see replacing it for the new Palm anytime soon, the Nokia does the same job in a smaller package.
And remember kids: Never trust a computer you can actually lift.
However, the software isn't all that great. Basically, under PalmOS 5, your application code runs as interpreted 68k instructions. Only system calls and some specially written subroutines (which, presumably, cannot make system calls), run as native ARM code. Presumably, this will get fixed with PalmOS 6.
What apparently won't get fixed is the basic PalmOS architecture. PalmOS was designed as a very lightweight OS for simple PDA applications: calendaring, TODO lists, etc., on very simple devices. It was fine for that: small and memory efficient.
But $500 devices like the Tungsten are in a different class. With ARM processors, they are more powerful than many workstations of a few years ago. You don't need that kind of device for basic PDA functionality--just buy a $100 Zire instead.
The reason why people pay $500 for a PDA is either because they want an executive toy, or it is for running "enterprise applications", multimedia apps, scientific apps, speech recognition, etc. And for that, PalmOS just sucks: the window system and toolkit are resolution dependent and simplistic, the file system is a hack, the system lacks installers or package managers, multitasking is poor, image support is poor, and on and on.
So, what does it all mean? If you want a PDA, get a Sony SJ-30 or a Palm Zire, or a Palm m500--they are great PDAs with great built-in apps. If you want a handheld to develop custom apps for, to port software to, etc., get a Linux PDA (or a PocketPC if you must)--you'll pay less and get something that's a whole lot better for the purpose.
Well, they are cool regardless but targeted at enterprise use:
The CD also includes BlueChat and BlueBoard. BlueBoard is a Bluetooth-based whiteboard-type image editing program. Users create an on-the-fly conference and can then all edit the same same on-screen image simultaneously. BlueChat is a Bluetooth-based chat program that allows users to create ad-hoc local IRC-like chatrooms with any users in range. We foresee a lot of employees talking about a presenter behind their backs this way.
I think the T sounds liek a great device. I like the features, the clever form factor (the telescoping stylus sounds great) and I love the idea of bluetooth support in a Palm and what can be done with it.
I also really like the idea of the web portal Palm provides to let you really browse the web without consuming a lot of bandwith. That is a perfect feature for a handheld meant to be networked. The only missing ingredient (which I assume will be around soon if it's not already here) is a bluetooth hub to give local bluetooth devices network connectivity (just like 802.11 hubs, but instead could act as a repeater to give bluetooth devices more range in an office).
Although an integrated phone/palm seems like a good idea, for my own needs I think I like better the idea of a really good PDA and a really good phone in two seperate devices.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It was $334 when I bought it at Buy.com two months ago ($347.99 now) & I've fallen in love. Seriously, I thought they were kidding when I read the specs for the new Palms. Compare it to the Zaurus specs and decide for yourself...
"Do something man. Right now."
The Tungsten T includes a fold-out Graffiti area, new cross-key keypad, 144 MHz ARM processor, Palm OS 5, a 320x320 full-color screen, and 16 MB of on-board RAM.
WHY do even the newest PDA's on the market still come with 16mb of memory?? I mean seriously, when I can get a 128mb CF card for ~$50, you'd think that a $500 palm with multimedia capabilities might have a little more room to work with than a fscking 386!
I'm a minister!
Was I the only one who saw the clockspeed and thought it would be a fun idea to take a directional and an amplifier and see what happens when one is inbetween you and the local repeater?
--Josh
There are exactly 42,935,718 letter sized sheets in a square mile.
With Siemens M50 we have not been able to load any midlets by any means. We even set up a WAP-server, but the phone just hangs.
But I wouldn't say the applications are tightly controlled by the provider, I don't think they are actively trying to hinder people, I just think some are being stupid with how you can install them.
more like, zaurus is sweeter with sweeter specs and cheaper.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Any ideas?
;).
Hmm... how about... moderate down?
"Tung sten" means literally "heavy rock" in Swedish. I wouldn't buy a hand computer called that.
Leveling up builds character.
This is complete FUD! You can also and very easily use a data cable to manage and transfer images, melodies and games if you have a data cable and it won't cost you anything. I do it all the time with my Siemens ME45. Also, I believe network operators aren't so keen on letting viruses/worms running wild on free downloads for freakin' mobile phones! Imagine the mayhem in countries with over 80% of the population having a mobile phone! Tech support hell! Most mobile phone owners aren't control-freak geeks, they just want to follow the instructions and get their game or whatever on their phone and have it running within a minute, period. Since most phones in circulation are under warranty, no wonder operators and manufacturers limit the kind of apps you can get, after all it'll cost *them* if *you* screw it up! If you really need a particular applet (you can even make yours!), use a data cable.
As to the download fee, it costs about the same than a couple of standard SMS to transfer a ringtone, logo or whatever you want and you may download from whatever source you want! As long as they support your phone, there shouldn't be any problem, no matter where they are. And if you want to transfer more, there are chances you'll use HSCSD or GPRS data transfer, in which case you shouldn't worry about the fractional costs of said games/ringtones/etc, given what you're already shelling monthly for all the services. I mean, you're not gonna have Kazaa running on it, right? There aren't *that many* games you can download yet and phones have limited memory.
Is it perhaps that you don't agree with paying for software or even paying for the data transfer? Wait for 3G or WiFi phones to pay a flat fee (hopefully) and stop bitching then!
Ever heard of T9? Works in my phone's agenda for data entry, damn quick. Sure it doesn't replace my real agenda (pen and paper, thank you) but is useful for setting alarms to important things. Oh, it also syncs Addressbook (complete Vcards) and agenda with Outlook (yuk) smoothly out of the box. May I suggest you try a better mobile phone before dismissing all of them?
Some cell phones, such as my Siemens, have decent enough PDA fuctionalities so that I don't feel the need for getting a new Palm (my IIIx being dead). The phone and a paper agenda do the trick perfectly and I only need a power outlet once a week to recharge the phone's battery. Also, I have one less worry about breaking the Palm and losing all my stuff, my phone is a ruggerised version which doesn't fear falling on concrete or in water. Try that with your Palm! As to the thin paper agenda, well...
You, sir, should open your eyes at what phone manufacturers produce nowadays, rather than basing your opinion on your 3 year-old Nokia. Heck, PDAs have already merged with cell phones, why not the opposite, to a limited level? Some manufacturers do it better than others. I suggest you visit the Siemens mobile phones site, their phones have much geekier functions than Nokia (except Communicator) and Sony/Ericsson ones.
Cheers,
max
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
Your post is correct, but the basic Premise of the origional poster is still correct...
There s nothing that these do that my old Palm III doesn't do other than the useless multimedia eye/ear candy. Palm made a HUGE mistake when they atarted making palm pilots.. they made them too good. I see many palm users still using their old devices and not buying new... I foolishly bought a Journada 420 back in 2000... I just gave it away to my ex-step-son last night It cost 3 times what my palm IIIx cost me, had a much faster processor, was color, etc... but completely and totally sucked compated to the palm pilot because of the instability of WinCE and how horibly slow it is compared to a palm device. (as well as the conduits and synch software really stinks/sucks/etc....)
I have tried many of the new palm and paml clone devices... the Treo 90 is really cool and the addition of a keyboard is plain awesome.... but I'm going to stay with my Palm IIIx until it dies or get's broken... as there is no other reason to buy another palm device....
Palm got it right the first time.... why should I replace a perfectly useable device that I am quite happy and comfortable with?
So you are right on the phones (I used to have a Qualicomm frankenstine that was phone+palm... it sucked!) but the other guys is also right.... no need whatsoever to buy a new one.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
The official press release,/a> can also be found at Palm Info Center.
Is 2MB shared for video or something like that? 2MB is a significant amount of space to be overlooking.
Also, did anyone else notice that the "T" logo they use is remarkably similar to the Japanese symbol for Post Office? Maybe it will be a point of confusion or ridicule in Japan.
Actually, yes, I can enter information into my computer and sync it to my phone. Wirelessly.
...
I have an Ericsson T68m and a Mac with a bluetooth adapter, and I use iSync to sync them. It also syncs my work and home Macs, and my old Palm V, and my iPod, so that a change made on one of them is updated on them all.
The T68m can also beam appointments and business cards to Palms via infrared.
Maybe this is what you're looking for? Wait, you're saying you don't use a Mac? Oh, well
I'm assuming since you said Qualcomm you meant the pdQ.
It seems like the pdQ got bashed by reviewers and by users, and overall just sucked. Didn't help that they were all single-band digital only.
The Kyocera 6035 (Essentially the pdQ version 2) had FAR better phone/Palm integration and is a VERY slick device. http://www.smartphonesource.com/ is the place to go for info and user comments on the phone.
Note that SMS won't even touch the pdQ. I think a total of 1 member used it and said it was a pretty crappy unit. Everyone LOVES their 6035s (including myself), and are drooling over the upcoming 7135.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Assuming the original poster is talking about the new Sidekick, 99% of all of the information is stored on the server, not your client device. Several people in a popular Sidekick forum have already mentioned that they put their SIM card into their replacment and all of the info is instantly there just as it was before.
The entire duration of the contract for the SideKick service (1 year) has unlimited data transfer.As to most of the other counterpoints in this thread, the SDK is coming soon...
Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
It has enough horsepower under the hood to run a software MP3 decoder, so an Ogg player will be possible. Which in turn means that someone will write one!
:) There are too many things I've wanted, and had to write myself, for me to ever feel that way.
Hate to break it to you but there are (hotly desired by someone) apps that could fit on older PalmOS models and yet they haven't been written yet. For example I have seen a number of people ask, over the past n years, "why hasn't anyone ported vi?" Heck, there might even be more people who think they want vi than people who think they want ogg.
Still I do admire your "no matter what I want, someone will code it up for me, for free" optimism.
"The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
Well, I just purchased my second palm device this weekend. I would have stuck with the old one had it not commited suicide from the top of my gym locker. I'm not a particularly large palm fan. After all for the most part the problem with palm is that you can buy a device from 1997 today for exactly the same price. Ok, the processors are slightly faster and the new devices have more RAM (unless your talking about the zire). Other than that they are pretty much the same.
On the other hand I stuck with palm because its a useful device. I have a good graphing calculator for it, and I use it like a standard day planner with a book/news reader. My old palm IIIxe was great on batteries. They only required changing once ever few months. Combine that with the fact that the battery monitor accually seemed somewhat accurate meant that I had plenty of warning to change them. I don't want to have to carry a charging station for a week long trip. So, when I went looking for a new one I had a few things I wanted. Higher res, color screen, mp3 player, smaller, faster, more ram.
Well it turned out I bought a m500 not something with a higher res screen, color, mp3 player, or a device with more ram. I purchased it simply because it was the smallest palm I could find. My second choice was one of the little cli devices because of the higer res screen. The only problem is that for most applications the high res screen seems to be run in low res, the color isn't particularly useful, its nice to have... and its probably about 50% thicker than the m500. The m515 might have been a good choice if it had been the same size as the m500 (its about 30% thicker).
So in the end the deciding factor was size, my importance factors went something like.
Size most important, Useful battery life, high res display, ram, color, mp3 playback. In the end I came away from the whole market pretty discusted. The m500 isn't as small as I want (pcmcia card size), it has the same amount of ram(8 megs worked on the old device should contine to work) and the display is the same crappy low res greyscale.
USB.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Franklin Covey has them in their brick & mortar stores.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.