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Panasonic Combined DVD-R & PVR Device
Raetsel writes "Caught a commercial the other day hawking the device I've been waiting for. TIVO is a great idea, but what if you want to keep something more permanently? Enter the Panasonic DMR-series. The top-of-the-line DMR-HS2 ($1000 US) has a 40 GB hard drive, offers "Time Slip Playback" (TIVO's "pause live TV" function), and allows you to move shows off the hard drive onto DVD. Heck, you can even record straight to DVD-R or DVD-RAM discs (which is what the $700 DMR-E30(K/S) does). There's also a IEEE-1394 input, so you can record from sources that have a FireWire output. Oh, yeah... it's a progressive-scan DVD player, too."
So what formats will it recognize over Firewire ? I wonder whether a S-Video In would be more useful than firewire....does it have that ?
...but, this is Slashdot, where $1000 is the average yearly salary for most people. Is there a way to build something that does what this thing does, albeit poorly, using Linux and our old spare 486s?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
It's great to hear that it's a progressive-scan player. My current DVD player is a Christian conservative-scan model, and it refuses to play a sizeable proportion of my video collection.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
The top-of-the-line DMR-HS2 ($1000 US) has a 40 GB hard drive
Er, or they could do a 60Gb one for $1040?
If you have a spare $1000, just make your own unix box, setup your own implementation and you dont have to worry about "service" fees later. You don't have time?? then why are you watching TV!?!?!?
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them. Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992)
From the article:
*Recording from the hard disk to a DVD-RAM or DVD-R disc cannot be done with images for which only single-generation recording is allowed. When recording these images to a DVD-RAM disc, the original image on the hard disk is erased.
I suppose we should be grateful that it supports any type of fair use.
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered. My life is my own.
How did the industry let this happen?
I've heard it said that companies make way more on hardware than they ever could on entertainment. I don't really have any numbers on that, but it doesn't sound unreasonable.
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
The biggest reason I would want this is very specific: tell it to record every Simpsons episode which airs (including syndication repeats) and burn them onto a DVD when there are enough of them. Ideally it wouldn't re-record episodes it had already recorded (though I don't know how it would be able to compare them) and put tables-of-content as DVD menus and printed labels (or DVD liner notes) telling me what episodes are on the discs.
I suppose you could use this for shows other than the Simpsons...but why?
Isn't this a violation to the DMCA... By playing back a DVD in a player encoded for one region and burning it down in another I break the copyright! Go out and arrest some engineers, see if you can get a CEO too...
This makes me wounder when TV broadcasts will come with a signal saying that the show can only be seen once, then the recording will be deleted.
Except from my fears of stupid politicians, I think that this is great progress. If I wait for half an hour before watching the movies on TV, I can fast forward past all the ads... hmm, I like that!
The only I don't like about TiVO and the rest of the DVR's is that they don't work well with Digital Cable settop boxes. I have AT&T Broadband, and you can only record the channel that the cable box is set to. This kinda removes all functionality of the TiVO, since it can't change channels when a show is on, and it can't record one and watch another.
I heard that the TiVO for DirectTV can do this stuff? Anyone have one and is it true?
Anyone know of a future release where the TiVO and the set-top boxes work together?
The DVR's are cool, but until they get this functionality, they are limited in use.
-A
This sounds great, but I really don't think combination devices like these are going to take off until the price comes down a lot (say, about half of what it is now). DVD recordable drives themselves are just beginning to get down to affordable levels.
"I may be quite wrong." - Socrates
Jack Valenti sees press release, has massive breakdown and is committed to a mental institution, rocking back and forth, muttering softly to himself.
Seriously though, how long will it be before this thing ends up on the wrong end of a protracted legal battle? If the networks, MPAA and whoever else controls the content don't like the mere PVR, imagine the controversy that this little box should cause.
The lawyers rejoice yet again.
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
Perhaps it's this little "feature" -- (from the Panasonic site):
- "Recording from the hard disk to a DVD-RAM or DVD-R disc cannot be done with images for which only single-generation recording is allowed. When recording these images to a DVD-RAM disc, the original image on the hard disk is erased.
"
There you go -- only one copy of a 'restricted work' can exist thanks to this device. But you can have it on reasonably durable media.So it's got some sort of restriction ability built-in. Bad that you can only make one copy (but then burn more from your computer?), but good that you could save, say, the Angels winning the World Series for posterity.
"...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
The consumer technology industry is moving so much faster than the media giants brains it is amazing. I bet the RIAA would nuke the factories making these devices if they had the ability.
Archeaologists have been able to recover sounds from pottery spun thousands of years ago. The recording industry (AKA the people that charge $ for recordings) is going to have to adapt to the fact that once something is transmitted broadcast, acted or spoken out, it is released into the collective state of existance and is available to all.
Why no ethernet port? Or even just a usb port that'd let it work like an excess hard disk for an external PC. It seems like it runs most of the race well, but gives up on the last lap.
"If the good lord had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." -Willy Wonka
It doesn't have daily updates of program guide data to select shows to record, subscriptions, actor/director lists, no on guide info while watching. No thumbs up or down.. Basically everything that makes TIVO awesome is NOT on this. They're getting there, but I suspect the only people releasing something of what we want is TIVO themselves.
I had a Replay hooked up to AT&T Broadband for a year. You use the included IR Blaster, which sticks to the IR Receiver and changes the box's signal. Now that I have DirecTV, my Replay connects via Serial cable, I just bought an older receiver that works with it.
I'm waitting on an HD Tivo Series 2 DirecTivo, which I expect to come out within the year. Then I can timeshift my HDTV programming. In the mean time, the 100GB drive I installed in the Replay should suffice.
I was tempted to grab this, as I could drop-in replace my Progressive Scan DVD player and get archiving capability. However, I really don't want to buy any more gear until the HD Tivo comes out.
Dish has an HD PVR in the works, I can't imagine DirecTV won't get one out soon, given that Tivo has gone on record stating that the Series 2 COULD handle it.
Alex
To see if amazon sells this product. They do. Check out the used products you can get it for around $800.
It's got that IEEE-1394 port (they call it "DV in"). I wonder exactly how much function that port allows... I mean, you can get info to the internal hard drive via it, so what will happen if you attach a Mac or one of those nice little Shuttle SS-51s instead of a camcorder?
- (Here's hoping it - like the iPod - shows up as a hard drive!)
Guess I'll have to buy an SS-51 when I buy one of these."...America's great minds of today, teaching America's great minds of tomorrow. Poor bastards." -- A Beautiful Min
Here's a review
When I though about trying to do this a while back, it didn't look like it was a no-brainer. There were some groups trying to put the pieces together, but it would be nice to have some definitive information about just what is required to make this work. It's got to be better and more flexible than a dedicated box like this, or it has to run on older hardware so I can use an old PII or something. If its not cheaper, it has to be better.
I don't think the series 2 units are hackable like the series 1 tivos were. There is some sort of cryptographic signature check on the config files, so it's not just a quick edit to the files to give yourself telnet and ftp.
a y. php?forumid=8
:)
Somebdy will figure something out though-- in the meantime, check out the tivo forums here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdispl
When I peeked just now, the very first thread was titled "No, you cannot hack a series 2 box (yet)" and had quite a bit of good info. Be patient, though-- somebody will figure it out.
I've seen a few complaints in these posts about the fact that it acts like an old-fashioned VCR, and needs to be told when to record by time, rather than the Tivo-like functionality of downloading programme schedules. Thats a cool thing to have, but currently these devices charge a monthly contract fee for that, while this device is just a pay once and you're done box. Personally, I don't actually want a box that I have to pay a monthly subscription on, and doesn't dial home to let them know that I recorded last night's Scrapheap onto DVD to watch again later.
/. hive-mind, but these people complaining they want programme guides are different ones to those that bang on about privacy rights, aren't they?
I know better than to think that there is a single
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..so that Joe Average user might start actually to see these in Best Buy ASAP. If combination PVR and DVD recorders begin to combine the benefits of VCRs (removable, permanent recordable storage), DVD players (high-quality video), and PVRs (instant random access, freeze, content searches, etc.), then I think that these could be huge. As demand kicks up, watch the price plummet.
/. geeks to be up in arms over this, its quite another when a bunch of people start getting used to their "new VCR thingy", and some new laws come down which says that they'll never be able to buy another ever again!
If these things get market penetration quickly, then we will be able to more effectively deflect the **AA's various fair-use restriction attempts. It's one thing for
Market penetration is what is needed, though. The industry can afford to piss off the early adopters of analog HDTV sets (that may be obsoleted by embedded permission tags in transmissions) because there just aren't very many HDTV sets out there. And of those, a bunch don't use it to its fullest advantage (ie. won't miss 1080i broadcast quality 'cause they never saw it to start with). For these PVR/DVD-R's, we need people literally replacing their VCRs and DVD players and using the features as they were designed to be used!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
these people complaining they want programme guides are different ones to those that bang on about privacy rights, aren't they?
Nope. I want a program guide and I care about my privacy. That's why I have a Tivo. They have a comprehensive privacy policy that the software actually adheres to (as verified by independant parties.. aka hackers). The data it sends back by default really and truly is anonymous. You can opt-out thru their phone number, and they send a command to the box itself to stop sending data back (also verified independantly). Or, if you like, you can opt-in to identify your data and let it be used for more useful things, although there's not much point in that as of yet.
And that is one of the aspects, of this device, that I like, indeed prefer over Tivo. No subscriptions, no unknown software updates that could possible reduce functionality and no Tivo phone home.
The Panasonic machine is like a VCR, you push the button and it does what you want. But, it does so in a modern format and has a few more features than today's VCR. Unlike Tivo, which I feel is severely threatened by the RIAA, this device could indeed be the next VCR.
I don't want a device that can do anything/everything for my television, I already have a few computers. I like this specific function device and when the price hits $500, probably after Christmas, I'll get one. By then, hopefully the price of the media will also have dropped.
Dunno where you're shopping, but I got my ReplayTV for 250$ retail. The HD upgrade IS easier. My commerical skip works like a champ on anything not Big 5 network. On those its 50/50, on cable shows its so close to 100% right that we don't reach for the remote anymore. The program that streams/records video from/to the ReplayTV can also automate tasks. You set up an hourly task for the Replay to chek the website while you're out of town and it gets the shows you want it to. TiVo is so very much the MAC of this competition. People seem to think its far superior without any grounding in fact.
First a DiVX ;) compatible DVD player... Now a PVR that burns DVDs.
This is gonna be a bad season for "media companies" which can't learn how to take advantage of new media formats...
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
I like this thing, but, as a professional DVD author, I have to warn you that not all encoders produce equal quality video streams.
You only have to look as far as QuickTime's encoder. Yeah, it's a software encoder that works at 2X, but it does not produce anywhere near the quality most people want, especially at low bit rate.
Of course, this could have hardware encoding, but the real quality, either software or hardware, comes from multiple passes. If this is recording to DVD in real time, it has no chance of doing VBR.
On pass VBR is worse that CBR.
So, I guess you could record, but only at VHS quality.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
I did some more digging to followup on my previos post about TimeWarner's integrated DVR/Digital Cable box. They are testing it in Rochester, NY, and they have a page up here. There is a movie (infomercial) about the service where you can see what the UI looks like... does not resemble TiVo at all, so I doubt they are using TiVo. Probably custom software from Scientific-Atlanta, the people that make their digital cable box. It's called the Explorer 8000.
It will have an 80GB drive. It will allow for PIP, watching live TV while recording another show, or recording two shows at once.
There is no cost for the device from TW, you pay around $10 a month for the service. No installation charge if you already have TW service.
"And like that
I believe the AT&T TiVo is now going for $200. There are vendors that sell plug & play replacement TiVo hard drives, which is about as easy as you can get.
People seem to think its far superior without any grounding in fact.
I think my TiVo is superior because I paid $150 for it over 3 years ago. It took ReplayTV too long to get it right. Their early versions were crap. In the time it took them to make it worthwhile, lots of people already bought TiVo. What you have already is better than what you can buy for more money.
Well, it's no match for TiVo yet. I'd like to have some kind of TiVo-like service, at least as an option. I find the most useful aspect of TiVo is that it will autosearch for programs and construct a recording schedule based on a defined set of priorities. And having to entire the titles myself would be a real pain. Still, if the TiVo folks are smart, they are thinking about a DVD-recorder equipped version or DVD-recorder peripheral, because I expect that these things will ultimately take over as an archival medium.
On the other hand it's a big step up from a VCR. The media is a bit pricey--the hours per disk they quote are of course for the lowest recording quality, which if my experience with TiVo is any guide, means horribly artifacted for anything other than talking heads. But I'm sure the blank disks will get cheaper in time.
I'm surprised the TV Studios and MPAA don't give up on TV and film entirely, and devote all their efforts into producing live theatre.
Actually, if they stopped releasing things on home video or TV and essentially forced people to go to movie theaters to watch movies, they could possibly make more money (i.e., $50 for taking your family to a movie versus $5 for renting the video at blockbuster). The theater companies would be happy; consumers most likely would not.
My other first post is car post.
Although I haven't heard more than rumors, this sounds a lot like a PVR device that I would expect Apple to produce--down to the pricetag being 2.5x the competition ($400 for a TiVo vs. $1K for this.) Hm, lets' see: SuperDrive, FireWire. Figure that Apple throws in a better show finder than TiVo, and connects it to
--
$tar -xvf
But can you get ReplayTV in the UK?
...because if you did, you could legally claim to be allowed to break CSS as the copyright holder, provided you could get your own recordings CSSed.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I have digital cable and it has a great guide with it. Program details, run times, etc etc. It's included with my cable service.
Tivo would give me a better recording-oriented guide, but I can't see it being all that much better for watching.
Plus, Tivo can't decode digital cable internally anyway, so I end up with multiple guides. The extra money for the Tivo service doesn't seem worth it.
I can't say that I particularly care if they retrieve my info, but if I hear that they are making money from selling it, I'm going to be asking for a cut.
By the way, there exists a broadcast medium for program info. I have a device called Starsight, which controls my VCR. It doesn't have a phone connection, but picks up program info that is apparently co-broadcast on PBS channels. The device itself is decidedly inferior to Tivo, however, because it won't do searches.
I used to have an even better program guide/VCR control device--nearly as good as Tivo, in fact--that used the pager network to deliver the info. Unfortunately, they got bought up by the company that owns Starsight, who discontinued the service.
So it's got some sort of restriction ability built-in. Bad that you can only make one copy (but then burn more from your computer?), but good that you could save, say, the Angels winning the World Series for posterity.
Yeah, cause, God knows, that kind of thing won't happen twice. I just feel bad for all the Red Sox fans thinking of buying a PVR for "next season, which will be OUR YEAR!"
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"