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Europe Goes To Venus; Mars Comes to Us
JamesO writes "The BBC says that the ESA is going to Venus, reusing the Mars Express design.
Also here. Launch seems to be expected in 2005." And knownsense writes "Space.com is reporting that Mars is coming to closer to Earth. It will be closer by around 191 million miles and will end up 85 times brighter about August next year. This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals."
ps. 1 mile = 1.6 km
transmission_err
The US doesn't have any faked landing of Venus that we're covering up, I hope. If that's the case, Venus express will never make it.
But will any geek actually get off his/her ass and look outside?
Also, now that Life may exist on venus, will this lead to more interest in the oft' forgotten planet?
This is very welcome news!
Just the other day I was talking to a friend about why there is so much more interest in Mars than there is in Venus. There are plenty of difficult questions that more missions to Venus could answer.
I'm very interested in what the results of this mission well be, there is after all so much to learn.
Of course, we need an obligatory Simpsons quote here:
"mmmmmmm..... gummie Venus"
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
appear more than six times larger and shine some 85 times brighter than it appears now...
Does that mean we can play Holst's "The Planets" 6 times louder and have a valid reason for when the neighbours complain?
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Aren't we sending people there?!? If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space? I've gotten to the point where I seriously doubt the intent of NASA to ever send a manned mission further than the moon. They've become so addicted to safe, academic research in orbit or from afar that they've forgotten how to take that leap into the unknown which was (in my opinion) what made the early space program (Murcury, Gemini, and Apollo) truly great.
Narrative
Is it just me or does that figure seem a little high?
"Auggh, my eyes! Damn you, Mars, damn you right to hell!"
Astronomy is my passion, tech and computers always second. Although planetary exploration is not my forte, I have been paying close attention to all the recent probes/satellites/additions to ISS. Seems to me space agencies are pretty good at getting stuff done even though they're one of the first budgets cut. Cassini will soon arrive at Saturn and I am anxiously awaiting the flood of images from said sattellite.
cool, a spacecraft with a fiat engine!
seriously though, this article seems biased... why is focus on italy; e.g., quote "the italian problem"? doesn't that kind of thing (one nation not contributing as much as everyone else) happen all the time?
[joke]
Well it must be because NASA are waiting for the current schlock of Hollywood movies to wrap, so they can hire some of the biggest sound stages ;)
[/joke]
Are you local? There's nothing for you here!
Actually, it got much closer in 1951...
Seriously, though, I hope NASA and ESA and the Chinese and private firms have planned well in advance to take advantage of this situation.
Get off my launchpad!
And just think, just in time for a Neanderthal's party to win in the U.S. midterm elections!
Coincidence? I don't think so!
-----
Paid for by "The Committee to Elect Edward D Wood Jr, Posthumously"
Yeah, and look what happened to them!
The article states that next August, when mars gets the closest to it has ever been, it will be 34.6 million miles away from earth. The article later goes on to say that in 1988, Mars went through a similar (though less extreme) event that closed the distance to earth to 36.5 million miles.
;)
Now I know the 2 million miles is still a huge distance when you think about it, but that's barely a 6% difference. All the numbers about the planet being 6 times larger or 85 times brighter, when you get down to it, won't be perceptible by the average joe unless he's shown two pictures pointing out the difference.
Unless mars starts to compete with the moon for being the brightest object in the sky, who really cares beyond some numbers geek being impressed at winning a celestial lottery?
You gota love Nasa's Moto... If you don't succeed the first time, spend millions more in another attempt.... :)
We can kind of imagine ourselves living on Mars -- not that it will happen anytime soon -- while Venus really is a hellhole. They've had trouble getting spaceships to withstand the pressure, never mind the temperature, and the atmosphere has lots of nasty stuff in it.
But Mars -- we can send cute little rovers to Mars, and it's that cool color.
Well, there's not much point in sending humans to Venus right now.
What would humans do in orbit around Venus that can't be done from a remote station here on earth?
"Hello Mission Control, the Venesian atmosphere is cloudy, and I cannot see a thing. I am about to launch the Venus probe with it's IR/UV/Radio-scannerthingamagig. BTW, I am still stuck in this tin can. I haven't experienced gravity in over a year, and my bones are disintigrating. The air is stale, the food is boring and I am about to go crazy."
Before you even start thinking about sending someone to another planet, there's a zillion other things to think about first. How to build a ship, how to feed the crew, what are the long term effects of space travel, etc. We still have a ways to go. A Satellite could go there now.
Remove satellites can do it far cheaper then a manned mission. If we're going to send humans anywhere, let send them someplace where they could acually walk.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
One, it's not that much closer than usual. It's not a big enough deal to merit immediately sending humans. (But, the two sweet Mars rovers the US is sending next year, and probes from Europe and Japan, will take advantage of the close proximity of Mars to Earth on this orbit to increase data rates slightly.)
:) (I'll settle for routine travel to Mars, though. :)
Second, NASA doesn't set the priorities for what it does. It doesn't have much flexibility in how it uses its budget. Its missions and expenditures are determined by Congress in each year's budget. I assure you that there are many people inside NASA who are chomping at the bit to break humans out of Earth orbit (including many very high-ranking people inside the agency). But, Congress has to unleash NASA, and fund any mandate it approves.
I'm with you, though, man. I want Americans to have the capability to go whereever the hell we want in the Solar System.
I hereby make a request that Slashdot should prohibit linking of any sites in a front page story which use popup or popunder ads.
All those in favour, say "I".
(Note to moderator: a little leeway, please)
If we're so close, then wouldn't this be an opertune time to take the next step in human exploration of space
Actually, orbital mechanics are a bit more complicated than just being 'close'. Going to mars is not a straight-line shot, as it might seem. It involves more of a elliptical shape originating at the earth. Remeber, when you want to go to mars, you have to aim at where the planet will be in 18 months when you get there, not aim at where it is when you leave. If your in a moving car with a pumpkin and happen to be coming upon your ex's mailbox, do you throw the pumpkin at where the mailbox is when you release it, or where the mailbox will be when the pumpkin gets there.
No, Im not a professor or anything, and no I have no links to prove my point, and Im sure a little googling would turn up a better answer, with some pretty pics too. Maybe I just watched Mechanical Universe too much as a child
-SiliconFoolI don't remember the Neanderthals being that close to us... well evolutionarily, of course, i'll give you that.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
You don't know? Ever read the book "Men are from mars, Women are fom Venus"? Well, let's just say it translated poorly over here in Europe... and you know what happens when you get an Italian hooked on an scheme to get a woman.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
If you are a Martian, than this will be the best time to order Earth pizza delivery for a good while. Better get your order in now in case there is a rush.
It will also be a good time to give back all that junk that NASA keeps crashing on your planet.
Table-ized A.I.
"Hey! That looks like a giant flaming meteor headed straight for earth!"
"No no, that's just mars. Mars is supposed to be extra bright this year. See how red it is?"
"Are you sure? It looks like a life-exterminating meteor to me."
"Nope, just mars. Definately mars. Nothing to worry about here. By the way, we'll be heading off to venus for awhile."
"Venus? Why? What's over there?"
"Oh nothing, nothing. Incredibly boring place actually, just clouds and all. Don't worry, the earth is perfectly safe, we'll be back later."
"Are you sure about that whole not being a meteor thing?"
"Of course. Got to be going now, want to have a good view."
"View?"
"Er I meant I'll be seeing you. After I'm back... from venus.... later."
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
I believe our reluctance to go to Mars is proof of NASA being filled with geeks. I mean, when was it last that a self-respecting geek stepped out of his geekroom?
More than mere navel gazing.
The Neanderthals went belly up about 35,000 years ago. The article says that Mars hasn't been this close in 70,000 years. Therefor, Mars hasn't been this close since *two* Neanderthals ago.
Neanderthal: the new unit of measure.
If only Orson Welles were alive to see this ;-)
On a side note, whoever put the monolith up on the grassy knoll in Seattle on new years' 2001 has a priceless sense of humor. And they say Americans are no fun...
Wah!
slashdot moderator michael actually manages correct use of a semicolon.
This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals.
So that's the best time for the martians to launch their invasion fleet?
True warriors use the Klingon Google
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Woah cowboy!
If you are using a traditional rocket, not a Star Trek warp drive, the route from Earth to Mars is not a straight line.
Draw two concentric circles on a piece of paper, representing the orbits of the Earth and Mars. Now imagine an ellipse, with one foci the same as the focus of the two concentric circles. If you adjust the size of that ellipse so that it is tangent to the inner circle at one end, and tangent to the outer circle at the other end, I believe that ellipse would represent the minimum fuel path to Mars orbit.
If you follow this route you won't travel 35 million miles, you will travel something like a bit more than 300 million miles. How long will it take? There are 365 days in an Earth year, and IIRC about 650 Earth days in a Martian year. An object following that elliptical route from the Earth's orbit to Mars's orbit would take something like 500 days to complete its own orbit around the Sun. So about 250 days, which is close to your guess, but only coincidentally.
Of course arriving at Mars orbit isn't enough. You have to schedule your launch from the Earth so you arrive there at the point where you are tangent to Mars's orbit when Mars is at that point in its orbit.
This is further complicated by the orbit of the Earth and Mars not being circular. They are ellipses too. The Earth's distance from the Sun varies by 2 or 3 percent throughout the year. I don't know whether the bulges in their respective orbits are close to one another, or on opposite sides of their orbits.
250 days? So if the bulges in orbits lined up, your ideal launch window would be when the Earth was at its farthest distance from the sun, and Mars was 250 days away from its closest distance from the Sun. The probe should arrive not when we are at our closest approach to Mars, but when the Earth has travelled about 60 degrees past the point where Mars meets the probe -- about 100 million miles.
If the bulges don't line up, it gets even more complicated. Which orbit is less circular matters. And the greater gravitational attraction the probe will experience when it is closer to the Sun also plays a factor.
If you want to send people on the most fuel-efficient path to Mars possible (which is almost necessary just to get them there at all, unless you're using a rocket better than anything we've ever built), you use a Hohmann transfer orbit, an ellipse which is tangent to the inner circular orbit (Earth's) at one end and to the outer orbit (Mars') at the other end. Even with a nuclear or better propulsion system, you wouldn't just point the rocket towards Mars and fire, you'd take advantage of your existing velocity in Earth's orbit to cut a sort of diagonal path between the two.
Either way, an extra-close approach of Mars wouldn't cut very much time off the trip.
They've become so addicted to safe, academic research in orbit or from afar that they've forgotten how to take that leap into the unknown which was (in my opinion) what made the early space program (Murcury, Gemini, and Apollo) truly great.
Although I agree that NASA isn't what it used to be, I think you're missing the most important difference between 1960s' NASA and today's NASA: funding with blank checks.
Let's see, Mars (God of war) is due to make its closest approach within a year and Bush is determined to start a war in the middle east also within a year. Coincidence? Maybe we should rethink this astrology thing.
When all else fails, run.
Submitters think up the titles; Michael had nothing to do with it.
How does a post get modded overrated as the first mod?? Why are people with mod points so willing to mod down but not up?
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
This apparently is the first time it's been this close since the Neanderthals.
... And we will be the Neanderthals this time ...
Now they can come back again
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Good enough reason to send a mission there....
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.