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Japan Considers Moving Away From Windows

dm24_99 writes "According to this article at Japan Today, the Japanese government is considering abandoning Microsft Windows in a plan to boost computer security within the government. The government is very interested in alternatives, especially Linux." Of course, like the bank reform being proposed, who knows when this will actually happen.

16 of 323 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Why asian contries in particular? by vivIsel · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's not just asian countries. A north american only needs look so far as...south america. While I can't find the article, there has been more than one south american country considering the switch to open source or actually doing it.

  2. If the Japanese do change.... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...First, they'll have to figure out the cost of changeover and supporting Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Software may be extremely cheap but supporting it could consume quite a lot of IT man-hours.

    Besides, the Japanese are already heavily invested in commercial UNIX systems. I believe many Japanese government ministries are running minicomputers and mainframes built in Japan using UNIX.

    Anyway, the Japanese should check with IBM Japan on this. After all, the biggest commercial supporter of Linux is IBM, and IBM definitely has the resources to do Linux installations from department servers all the way up to supercomputers.

    1. Re:If the Japanese do change.... by FreeUser · · Score: 4, Informative

      ..First, they'll have to figure out the cost of changeover and supporting Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Software may be extremely cheap but supporting it could consume quite a lot of IT man-hours.

      Stop parrotting the Microsoft line about cost of use. As one who has worked in IT a very long time, and has administered large Windows networks, UNIX networks, GNU/Linux and FreeBSD networks, I can unequivocably say that the line you are spewing is both deceptive and wrong.

      The cost of maintaining and supporting UNIX systems in general, and GNU/Linux systems in particular, is a tiny fraction of the cost to maintain and support the equivelent number of Windows systems. A tiny fraction. Maintaining 20 Windows NT/2k systems requires one full-time employee (one who is competent ... if you're hiring new MSCEs off the street, double the number ... at least ... and hope for the best, because it is going to be a rocky ride). OTOH a single, competent person can easilly administer two hundred or more GNU/Linux systems in the same number of man-hours.

      The only real cost is the changeover itself ... retraining people on the new system, which costs time and money [a real cost, but one that is in generaly much lower than the propoganda from Redmond would have you believe. Again, they have an agenda, and it isn't your best interests they are concerned with]. Once the changeover is complete, the cost savings in every respect: time (user and administrator man-hours), cost (costs due to downtime are much lower, cost of software is negligable, cost of support is lower, etc.), and deployment logistics (no chasing proprietary, moving targets, no forced upgrades according to the vendor's schedule, not yours, etc.) are immense.

      When Microsoft, or those who parrot them, start talking about how much it is going to cost to support open systems vs. their ever-changing, buggy, insecure, and downright shoddy wares, grab ahold of your wallet and back away, carefully, for they are lying to you outright, almost certainly as a prelude to taking more of your time and money. In any other business it would be called fraud.

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  3. Re:Shure it will happen... by halftrack · · Score: 3, Informative

    Err ... do you know what a fiscal year is. A fiscal year beginning April 1. may very well begin April 1. 2003.

    A fiscal year is a twelve month periode, but not bound to the gregorian year. The term is usually used in economics.

    --
    Look a monkey!
  4. consider the source by nikko · · Score: 1, Informative

    You people are taking something written by Japan Today seriously?

    It's a faaarr left wing, marginal paper dominated by Western expats. The Japanese don't read it.

    Wait until you hear it from Yomiuri or Asahi shimbun-- then bother to burn some brain cells.

    1. Re:consider the source by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 5, Informative
      Wait until you hear it from Yomiuri or Asahi shimbun-- then bother to burn some brain cells.

      According to the article, the original source of the news is Asahi Shimbun...

      --
      Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
    2. Re:consider the source by rseuhs · · Score: 5, Informative
      Wait until you hear it from Yomiuri or Asahi shimbun-- then bother to burn some brain cells.

      Would it make any difference for an illiterate like you?

      From the article, the first paragraph:

      The Japanese government is reviewing the possibility of no longer using Microsoft Corp's Windows operating system as part of its plans to boost computer security within the government, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported Saturday.

  5. Re:Security. by miffo.swe · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bear in mind that linux has a strong tradition of unveiling every security risk found no matter how small. Most holes found recently have been found by audits, not by intrusions in linux boxens. The more holes found and fixed the better. We have no idea of just how many holes there are in windows because we cant quip about it if we buy access to the code. An independant audit of windows is impossible. In linux whoever has the time and care can do an audit. Security should be discussed, bashed and nagged about constantly.

    If you look at how many holes that have been found in the core of linux and GNU tools the numbers are in favour for linux by far. Its mostly addons and applications that have holes in them.

    Dont forget that a serious admin can choose secure parts for his server and thus build an pretty much idiot proof server if he has the knowledge relatively easy. In windows thats impossible because "this is what you get, live with it".

    The existence of theese linux boxens with different ftpd, httpd, sshd etc etc gives a diversified net, just like in nature. If you find a hole in an application there is less chance of someone else having the axact same config.

    That said there are a lot to be done in linux security but i still think its a better choice for a server since you have the power yourself and you dont have to wait for someone else to do the job. If its important you can do it yourself and that is worth more than money if your data is sensitive.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  6. Re:Japansese Language Support is needed the most by BigWhale · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is something (ok, better there was at least two years ago) called UniCon and UniKey. Which had support for japanese/korean/china simplified/china traditional characters. I'm not sure who developed this little piece of code, it might be that someone from TurboLinux, not sure tho, but it worked like a charm (for someone that doesn't know anything about this writings... ;> )

    You simply booted kernel in frambuffer, modprobed unicon and you had the ability to display the double-byte characters on your screen. Then for keyboard input you loaded unikey module and there was status line on the bottom where you could by pressing shift-space or ctrl-space or something like that, enter all syllables and the thing also checked if they are valid. You couldn't just write some nonsense...

    So the support looked pretty much ok.. At least for me... :))

    --
    The Sig, the sig
  7. Re:Unicode, unicode, unicode... by MtViewGuy · · Score: 5, Informative

    There may be thousands of kanji characters, but those beyond the 1,980 characters that the Ministry of Education requires for passing the final high school exams in Japan are rapidly falling into disuse.

    Newspapers, periodicals and manga (the Japanese equivalent of comic books) published in Japan usually conform with the Ministry of Education standard for ease of printing reasons. In fact, there are articles in Japanese newspapers and periodicals on kanji that are falling into disuse.

  8. Re:Why asian contries in particular? by dazdaz · · Score: 4, Informative

    The answer is very simple. Money. The asian business community's simply cannot afford the Western licensing costs charged by Microsoft so many don't pay. Now that there is increasing Governmental software licensing enforcement, it's pushing company's towards a legalised solution, and Open Source is a good investment.

  9. Re:Getting some industry back? by The+Cydonian · · Score: 5, Informative
    Why do you suppose the countries have the same railway gauge, the same electrical outlet voltage, the same basic design for telephones and kitchen sinks?

    I actually thought you were sarcastic until I read till the end. Presuming you're a Brit, but surely,

    • ... you've heard of that 110 V thing they have in US, as opposed to the 220V you have out there in Britain and most Commonwealth countries?
    • ...seen that the rest of Europe (and indeed US) drives on the left?
    • ... noticed that US uses NTSC while Europe uses PAL?
    • ... you haven't travelled by train from Mongolia to Russia. Apparently, there's this border station where they lift the cars above the ground with cranes and manually compress the wheels to fit the narrower Russian gauge.
    The whole business world is Western-oriented. English is the global language, global corporations stock is listed in Tokyo, New York and London. You can bet that if an Indian businessman and a Japanese sit down to do business, they'll do it in English.

    I agree here with your thesis, but a small nitpick; English is definitely the global business language, but if my experience with my Chinese friends is any indication, Asian (ie Korean, Japanese and Chinese) users certainly seem to prefer an interface in their mother tongue rather than a generic English one, even if they read and write okay-ish English. So yes, Microsoft spends quite a lot on internationalisation, but no, this is despite English emerging as the de-facto business language for the world.

    They aren't an American company any more than Sony is a Japanese country: they both take a global view.

    Interesting typo. ;-)

  10. Re:Shure it will happen... by jawtheshark · · Score: 2, Informative

    Japanes fiscal years always start on 1 April. It's not an April fools thing at all. I work for a Japanese company, so I know.
    As far as I'm informed even raising classes in school is around that period. They do not change like we do at the end of the summer. They raise in class "in the middle of the year". I might be wrong about this, but I'm sure about the fiscal year.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  11. Oshiri kara hanashimasuka? by wirefarm · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's 1945 kanji known as Joyu (sp?) that are the bare minimum needed for literacy - those are the ones you learn through high school and the ones that they pretty much stick to in newspapers and official documents. Plus in Manga, of course, where they have a larger percentage of 'semi-literate' and younger readers. Believe it or not, Japanese literature actually does get a bit deeper than this - they have books and magazines that use lots of difficult characters that must be supported in the fonts and character sets.
    After the initial 1945, there's another 18,000 or so that, while less common, are certainly not 'falling into disuse' - some percentage are only used for names and such nowadays, buy that pretty much makes them a requirement. After all, how do you sell someone a computer incapable of displaying his name or the name of a polititian? Sure, you could spell it out in katakana, but that's just lame.

    It gets trickier, because there are several encodings in common usage, such as JIS, Shift-JIS and EUC, all which must be supported in any viable operating system. As far as I know, Unicode is a latecomer and not really an important player yet in Japan. It does show promise, though. Until then, systems will have to transparently guess which encoding to use. One of the first words you learn in Japanese when dealing with DBCS information systems is Mojibake - garbage rendering of text.

    The good news is that Linux does a great job of handling all of the encoding issues. I use it daily for this stuff and it certainly surpasses anything I've seen on Windows, though IMHO, Mac is a bit slicker. (No surprise there.)

    As an aside, I was once venting frustration to a friend while studying kanji - "When are the Japanese going to give up this crap and just use roman letters like the rest of the world??"
    "Never!" she replied, "Because once you've learned kanji, it's too fscking convenient!"

    If you're really interested in this stuff, do a Google for 'Jim Breen', the professor from Monash who is possibly the leading expert in the field - he's also a hell of a nice guy.

    --
    -- My Weblog.
  12. Re:Asian countries except Japan are Microsoft-cent by sheldon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Internet exposed web servers make up perhaps 10% of the total server market.

    I don't see how you can reasonably make any conclusions based on the statistics you just posted.

  13. Re:Asian countries except Japan are Microsoft-cent by schon · · Score: 3, Informative

    Most of the "other" webservers are Roxen server which was open-sourced recently.

    Recently? Roxen (and Caudium, which was forked from it a couple of years ago) has always been released under the GPL.