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Moving Your Kids to Linux?
"My real motivation to do this is to save money and to teach my children that sometimes the best isn't always the most expensive. Also, being the cheap bastard that I am, I'm looking at all the money we've spent on Windows XP, Office and all the games over the years, and I'm wondering if there isn't a way to slowly supplant Linux into the mix and not sacrifice my children's computer experience but at the same time save some money and teach them something new.
My requirements are simple: I would like them to run their CD-ROM based games (which are mostly Director based games from Hasbro), and I would still like them to chat with their friends and also be able to play online Flash and Shockwave based games from Yahoo and Shockwave.
I believe I'm looking at an OpenOffice situation to replace Office, I suppose that would be fine and I think would work out (they aren't required to have perfect Word compatibility, its basically type a paper, and print it). For chat we're probably OK too, because something like GAIM would be fine -- Jabber based things would also be cool.
But my real concern is the CD-ROM games and Windows based games. I can't see my 3 year-old putting a CD-ROM into the drive and expecting it to auto-load and run like it does on XP -- without issues -- even with a perfect installation of WINE, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a way to have it work as good as windows?
I've thought about loading up Mandrake and getting WINE working to see if it'll work out, but I'm not sure that I should waste my time, so I thought I'd ask some readers here if they're run into this situation and if I'm just crazy for thinking that this would be the wise thing to do at the expense of my children's computing experience."
http://www.linuxforkids.org/
Mats
I assure you that old games should not be able to crash Windows XP.
If it is crashing then it's either bad drivers or a hardware problem. If you are using the default Windows XP drivers then it's almost certainly hardware related in which case Linux would be just as unstable.
Why not set the machine to dual-boot or try out one of the many CD-based Linux distro's to see how they get on for now without all the associated hassle if they have to revert back.
If they are happy with Linux and still wish to use Windows for the odd game then take a look at VMWare - yes it's more outlay but it will keep them happy for those games/apps they really want.
[)amien
[)amien
I tried this myself, but found I didn't have the patience or determination to get everything working smoothly. Shockwave just doesn't jive well with some web browsers on Linux. WINE is a work in progress and not sure to work. (Though, admittedly, even running games on WinXP that were designed for Win98 is iffy.) End result, a dual-boot system using LILO. Office-type software in Linux, games in Windows 2000, messenger in Linux, browser in Windows 2000. This works much better. I keep checking new stuff out -- so eventually more will move to Linux, but I refuse to spend weeks trying to get shockwave to move.
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
Disconnect the wiring on the reset and power switch. My 18 Month old has become a savvy button pusher. His ability to sneak in there and hit that power switch is uncanny. I tried locking my computer in an desk encloser which works, but now He knows how to climb up to my desk using a bar stool type chair and use his toes to hit the buttons. Well as far as useful advice I switched to windows 2000, It allowed me to have much control over who can use what programs it's stable and allows the auditing I desire. In reality linux wasn't practical because many of the games my 11 year old daughter would like to play dont work. If you like me had fantasies of your child loving programing as you did as a geeky kid forget it. They lost interest after the " hello world
Kids sites tend to use a lot of Flash, from what I've seen. My 3 year old spends a lot of time playing games on the Disney and Noggin sites.
Unfortunately, the Flash player for Linux is still at version 5. Not a huge problem, as most Flash apps are still compatible with 5, but it does mean that you will run into problems until they release an update.
Wine has issues with practically every problem it runs. Even pinball is flickering and slow. I don't think you can rely on it for more stability than XP. If anything, running them under Win98, the original system they were written for, should be more help.
No I don't mean get a copy of MAME, I mean use software like VMware or Plex86 to emulate any of the less resource demanding games. Also, bear in mind Linux has a plethora of FREE games available, many of which I find more mentally stimulating than their win32 based counterparts. And about worrying if it will be user friendly for your kids, computers weren't too user friendly when I was a kid, but I lernt em anyways :) Seriously, just stick your kids on a Linux box and they'll 0wn your root in no time
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
I mean, if you already have a copy of Windows for some reason or another and a dedicated system, is there value in moving them to Linux? Will they come to appreciate any of the features Linux has to offer if their administrator (the father) hides all the differences from them? XP/2000 are relatively stable (about as stable as a kid would really need), and it is what the edutainment/games companies develop for. Sure you could rig something with magicdev and wine to do autorun stuff, but what is the gain?
Now there are many applications where Linux has some incredible advantage over Windows. Professional workstation use, server, power user desktop, multimedia playback (freevo/mplayer is very HTPC friendly...), but I'm not sure edutainment works in this area *if* you already have a licensed copy of Windows. There is no reason compelling you to upgrade to the latest and greatest MS, if Win98 worked fine, why buy XP? I think you'll find a lot of problems encountered during a three year old's use of a computer will happen regardless of the OS, and Wine will not likely meet your expectations as a full Windows replacement.
You can use free software with your Win98 (or XP, or 2000). OpenOffice doesn't require linux, and a lot of free applications now run under Windows.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The first thing anyone should learn with a computer is how to code using a very, very simple language. I used MS QuickBASIC.
If you first use the computer to use applications, then you will forever think the computer is a device for word processing, viewing web pages, and the like. As you learn more applications, you will think that the computer can do more, say allow you to layout pages, but you will miss the main point of the computer.
The computer is a tool. If the first thing you learn to do is code, you will see that the computer is a tool for processing input, and generating output. That's all it does, but it does it very, very well.
I have been in a classroom environment where we were told to make a change to a single spot in an entire web site (~70 pages). Out of 20 people in the room, 19 of them opened FrontPage, made the change, and repeated. I wrote a script and finished in 5% of the time. They used the computer for what they thought it was for, applications, and I used it for its real purpose, processing data.
-twb
It is apparent that you don't know what you are doing... say it with me... compatiblity mode. I have yet to have ONE program out of thousands going through my hands fail to work using it.
If your XP box is BSODing or needing a reboot five times a week, your problem is much deeper than XP. It's either PEBCAK or crappy old 1980s hardware. I run over 100 boxes with WinXP Pro and easily that many more lappies with XP Home... not one crashes... ever. Not one. And it's a good mix of bleeding edge and older hardware systems.
My suggestion is that your kids get a new dad, one that knows how to buy decent hardware and load an OS properly. If you move your kids to Linux, you can trash 99% of the software you own, and limit your kids to second rate citizenship status in the cyber and electronic world as they won't be able to enjoy any modern learning or fun titles nor the internet. WINE is not a good solution for emu-ing your edusoftware either.
Learn to run your compter friend.
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashplayer/spe cial/beta/
It works great!
As for Shockwave, it works great if you install the Windows version with CodeWeavers CrossOver plugin.
Kids dont have the freak-out factor that the brain-dead adults have when moving from one interface to another... the move to linux is braindead for them, and Open Office will work just fine for them.
Here's the problem... The schools TEACH windows and MS-Office.. the teachers do not care about abilities but Rote-memorization.. like "what menu is used to create a table in word" if you dont exactly follow what the teacher wants.. to get it wrong... doesn't matter if you were sucessful. add to this that sites like NICK.com and cartoonnetwork use alot of shockwave for the games.. that break under linux.
also, if your kids's friends use MSN chat or the other non friendly chat systems then those also break.. Yahoochat works fine for me under linux, but then I eliminate any chat apps for my daughter... there is no reason for her to get sucked into the chat addiction.. she can use the phone... and as for filtering... I blatently use Squid and a good blocker file. It's a transparent proxy, you cant get around it unless you hack it or hack my login on it.. and it is there to keep the HTML porn emails from forcing their way in front of my daughter's eyes on her email account. her account has only been used by friends of hers and as a login information for nick.com and cartoon network.. so one of those companies sold her email address to a spam list that was bought by some aisan porn sites.. nice... a blocking proxy is required, even when you supervise... porn adverts force themselves into our lives. and squid keeps them from being visible... at least the pictures...
The kids can translate to linux easily... It's just the education aspect and possible breaking of shockwave games that really keep my daughter from loving linux.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Guess what: IT'S NOT THE OS!...I'm fulling willing to say that 95% of the time it's YOUR OWN DAMNED FAULT!
Sometimes, it IS the OS' fault. And that says everything you need to know about Windows. If your Win98 computer isn't crashing, count yourself lucky instead of counting yourself skilled.
Here's an example. A few years ago I built a new machine. Installed Win98SE on it. The machine crashed constantly. I mean CONSTANTLY. I could boot it up, go to the bathroom, 2 minutes later find it frozen ON THE LOGIN SCREEN. I could open a document in Word, and it would freeze. This was true on a machine with the bare minimum install too, and this same machine was running Linux, NT, and Windows 95 without the same problems, so I don't think you could chalk it up to the hardware. So whose fault was that ? Finally, because my Win95 had no USB support and my games won't run under NT, I installed Windows ME, and my problems seemed to go away.
But the whole experience clearly shows how fragile is the Windows family. When someone tells ME their Windows (esp 95/98/Me) horror stories, I believe them, because I've used all of them to know they're very likely true.
I have a kid and the first thing (she/he) will find on your computer is the reset button.
It is extremely important to buy a child proof case for your computer, especially if your child can reach it (which should be the case if your computer is on the floor).
My daughter started playing with the keyboard at 3 months. Buy yourself a spare keyboard your child can play with. PCjr chicklet keyboards are great for that (and easy to clean).
Don't leave your laptop on the floor, unless your company can afford to replace it.
No flat pannel monitors and always clean your monitor!
That reminds me, I have to buy two new computers for my unborn twins. I have until february...
I saw an earlier post for linuxforkids, but I thought gcompris deserved it's own mention even though it is on the linuxforkids.org site. Gcompris is a nice suite of educational games for Linux. All GPL of course.
Bammkkkk
www.sguil.net
The Analyst Console for NSM
I'd like to know why it is you think moving to Linux is such a good idea when it seems that you're incapeable of administering a Windows XP box. And I quote...
I would like to move them off Windows XP and introduce them to something less expensive (free) and more reliable. I'm rebooting this machine probably four and five times a week, not to mention the forever problem of lockups and hangs which seem to happen during the times where the 3 year-old is using the machine. I know the crashes are mainly due to the older games that the kids play which are not totally compatible with XP, but hey, they USED to run just fine under Windows98.
I don't mean for this to be flamebait, but a good Win XP setup does not crash 5 times a week. There are really two likely scenarios: one is that you have a faulty driver for some of your hardware, the other, and perhaps more likely, is that you have software written for Win 98 that is trying to force itself into parts of the OS where it doesn't belong. Do yourself a favor, decide between 98 and XP and do a clean install of one or the other, then be very selective about what you install and allow your kids to run.
But my real concern is the CD-ROM games and Windows based games. I can't see my 3 year-old putting a CD-ROM into the drive and expecting it to auto-load and run like it does on XP -- without issues -- even with a perfect installation of WINE, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a way to have it work as good as windows?
No. Let me elaborate: No. If you want to run Windows CD ROM games, and a slew of other Windows programs then just run Windows. If you want to start introducing them to other less expensive alternatives, try Open Office, Mozilla, GNU Chess/Winboard, and others of the like. Then be prepared to deal with the complaints that at school they have Office XP and MS Word has features A, B, C and D, and why don't we? As they show an interest, get them their own PC and let them have at it.
bance.net
- http://www.ofset.org/gcompris/index.html
There are probably other projects well worth investigating."I know the crashes are mainly due to the older games that the kids play which are not totally compatible with XP, but hey, they USED to run just fine under Windows98."
This comment is late in the discussion, and I know it probably won't get modded up because of that, but Windows XP has a great built-in solution to that problem. It's called Compatibility Mode.
If you right-click on the program icon, click properties, and click the Compatibility tab, you can tell Windows XP to run a program under "Windows 95 mode" or "Windows 98 mode." This makes the program think that it's running under an older version of Windows, so it (presumably) won't crash because of the new 2000/XP APIs.
Also, it sounds like you've made little effort to diagnose the crashes. Hey, if you want to learn Linux, and have your kids learn Linux, reading system logs is going to become necessary. Start with the syslog for XP. It's in Control Panel -> Administrative Tools -> Event Viewer. Look for any events in the System log around the time your computer was crashing.
I had a friend who was having major problems with XP. XP really doesn't crash that much on a good system. However, he was getting several BSODs a day. I asked him to look in his System log. Guess what it said?
"The driver has detected that device \Device\Harddisk0\DR0 has predicted that it will fail. Immediately back up your data and replace your hard disk drive. A failure may be imminent."
Um. Whoops.
System logs and Compatbility mode are your friends! I'm not trying to discourage you from running Linux, which I think you should at least check out, but you need to fix the problems you have with XP before you move to Linux. Don't go to Linux because "XP crashes" (it shouldn't crash unless you have a problem, which might show up in Linux as well) -- go with Linux because you like it better or it does what you need. In the meantime, troubleshot your XP box and try out compatibility mode -- they will make you a much happier camper.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
I am 61 and I've been hammering the keyboard since grad school in 1968 and have been programming professionally since 1980. I have never had problems with my wrists or fingers, except that I type faster than I ever have, and sometimes my mind thinks one thing and my fingers type (accurately) another, usually because I think, while I type, in terms of words and phrases, not letters.
About 10-12 years ago I had the symptoms of a heart attack while setting at the keyboard: numbing jaw and left arm, pain in the chest, and a clammy feeling with mild persperation. Alarmed I rushed to the doctor, who put me on a treadmill and gave my heart a clean bill of health. His next question was "do you spend a lot of time using a computer keyboard?" "Yes, why?" "Adjust the height of your chair & keyboard so you are not using your shoulder muscles to keep your arms elevated." Problem solved.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
Here are the current statistics for the Flash Player adoption for each version: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/f lashplayer/version_penetration.html. Flash 5 is about 92% and Flash 6 is about 53%.
cpeterso
Technically, I would repartition, keep a dual boot for a while, and start buying games for Linux. This will help them have a smooth transition. You can read a lot about the cons in other posts, but to me the big picture is: your kids can do their stuff in Linux. They just won't be able to use every possible game. But then again, if they are hardcore gamers, maybe a games console will do the job. For most other tasks, you should be golden with linux. And the legaci win* partition will help you in the few remaining cases. And by buying Linux stuff you will help it become more popular and in the end your family will be making a difference.