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Moving Your Kids to Linux?
"My real motivation to do this is to save money and to teach my children that sometimes the best isn't always the most expensive. Also, being the cheap bastard that I am, I'm looking at all the money we've spent on Windows XP, Office and all the games over the years, and I'm wondering if there isn't a way to slowly supplant Linux into the mix and not sacrifice my children's computer experience but at the same time save some money and teach them something new.
My requirements are simple: I would like them to run their CD-ROM based games (which are mostly Director based games from Hasbro), and I would still like them to chat with their friends and also be able to play online Flash and Shockwave based games from Yahoo and Shockwave.
I believe I'm looking at an OpenOffice situation to replace Office, I suppose that would be fine and I think would work out (they aren't required to have perfect Word compatibility, its basically type a paper, and print it). For chat we're probably OK too, because something like GAIM would be fine -- Jabber based things would also be cool.
But my real concern is the CD-ROM games and Windows based games. I can't see my 3 year-old putting a CD-ROM into the drive and expecting it to auto-load and run like it does on XP -- without issues -- even with a perfect installation of WINE, hey, maybe I'm wrong, but is there a way to have it work as good as windows?
I've thought about loading up Mandrake and getting WINE working to see if it'll work out, but I'm not sure that I should waste my time, so I thought I'd ask some readers here if they're run into this situation and if I'm just crazy for thinking that this would be the wise thing to do at the expense of my children's computing experience."
I have 3 kids of my own and work for home doing some consulting while my husband is off at work. Slowly I've been teaching them how to use Linux Mandrake hoping they will grow up to be Linux Kernel programmers or something ;)
;)
The oldest one (8) is getting good at loading Mozilla and is learning how to type using emacs. The younger two just like all the nifty xscreensavers
They're so cute!
Something else is wrong if you're rebooting 4 or 5 times a week. MS has a bad track record, but so far I've heard XP doesn't crash that often.
Taking your kids towards linux has two benefits here. It can cost you as a consumer less and it will give your kids (with good guidance) a good start in learning about computers and what they are truly capable of.
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
I would want a choice of what I was using. When I was about 8 or so I made sure my parents knew I wanted a commodore. If your kids care they will tell you. If they don't then maybe they're not ready yet.
The poster didn't say the kids spend all their free time "on the screen". He seems concerned about them, watches what they do, etc. It doesn't seem to me like he's letting his computer babysit.
Computers are a necessary part of the educational process. Not only are they gaining popularity in the classroom, but they're a fantastic research and learning device. They're more interactive than television, and can be a great secondary source to books (reviews, discussions, etc.) and toys (lego programming languages and the like).
I think it's more likely than not that these kids have toys, games and educational materials beyond the computer. Don't let the fact that you weren't 4 or 7 when you started using the box stop other people from teaching their kids early.
I'm in a similar position. When my son was 3 I started letting him use the computer (mainly because he exhibited the ability to mimic what he saw me doing). While I did pick up a few children's titles that were games and 'educational software' (YMMV) I also put an shortcut to a chess game on his desktop. He played chess as often as the 'child' titles without me prompting either way.
In other words, your kids will live without their windows based software if you can't get it to run on Linux.
I'm about to set up my first Linux based machine. I have many of the same motivations to do so, plus I just want to play with it. If things go well, my existing Windows based PC will likely be my last. Even though that means that I have to give up some of the games near and dear to my heart. It'll be worth it in the long run, I hope.
Grimwell - old, cranky, mean, obsessive
while I'd like to convert my daughter to Linux, she's only 2, so we need all of the games that work in Win98 to work perfectly on her next computer.
my solution? a Blueberry 350Mhz iMac running OS X bought on eBay for 401$ with shipping. it will run all of her games in 'classic' OS 9 mode, and she'll have a CLI below her in the OS for when she's older. once she's off the games in a few years we can look at buying her a box for Linux, install Linux on the iMac, or just stick with OS X. by then she'll be able to choose herself.
I can't wait til xmas morning!
P
My kids actually prefer my linux machine to mom's 2000 machine. Something about all the cool games that install out of the box when you select "Debian Jr" during tasksel. :) My two oldest kids actually like this text based math quizzer, and try to out do each other on it all the time. I have them defaulted to KDE for the desktop, and most the stuff they do would be flash sites like Nick, bob builder, etc. I find it interesting that the kids go for the linux desktop vs the 2k box when they have all these games on both. For more on what's available for kids under linux goto the Linux For Kids website. Good luck, and just let the kids choose.
I've got my brother on redhat linux, and it's a pain in the ass for me. He's 13, but all the time he wants me to get something else working - and with linux it all takes so long. besides that i'm a bafoon when it comes to RH (deb rocks).
I don't think he's learning anything, because he just uses mozilla to check his mail and such. He still doesn't know how to do anything with linux.
It doesn't seem like this person wants his kids to learn about an OS (or deal with it). It sounds like he simply wants to move to linux and hope that the switch doesn't affect what his kids already do on the computer.
I agree with the fact that they should be participating in other activities than just computing, but the more they know now the more prepared they'll be in the future. Because it sounds like they're pretty saavy already (a 3 yr. old chatting? wow.).
If water were beans, I'd be 70% beans.
Let the child decide
..and I've never talked about windows and microsoft with him like we do here on slashdot. Given that, he is able to use both OSes fairly well for his level. Once when I was out i had left my computer on Win2k running and when I came back he typed up a letter for me and drew a picture using Adobe Illustrator..which kinda amazed me b/c I only showed him Illustrator once a long time ago. On the Linux side, he likes the Gnome games as well as Tux Racer and Chromium B.S.U.
I have an 8 yr old bro and although he doesn't use a computer much, I always maintain one in his room for his use. I used to dual boot win98 and linux on his computer like mine (except mine dual boots w2k) so he can choose what he needs for the games he plays. Turns out, he used linux more often than the windows.
Eventually my "support" for his win9x became a nightmare and I just asked him point blank "do you need windows?" and his response was "no, I mostly use Linux".
$cat
Last update: January 2002. /rollseyes
I don't think your joking at ALL.
*I* was one of those kids!
He can piss off the teachers all he wants, so long as he's RIGHT. I used to get in trouble all the time in school because I knew more than the teachers. I'd get sent to the principal's office, my parents would come down and the first thing my dad would is "was my son right?". The pissed-off teacher would reluctantly have to admit I was, and that was the end of it.
Now, when he's wrong, he'll get his ass kicked, just like I did.
If a teacher can't take the time to be computer-literate themselves, and if further they are going to be angry because a child knows more than them, say it with me: THEY SHOULD NOT BE A TEACHER, and they will not be a teacher of MY child for long because one way or another the teacher will be gone or my child will be out of the class or the school entirely. Fortunately I can afford to send my children to private school if that becomes necassery, and I'll just keep trying different ones until we find teachers that are worth a shit, which means they won't be offended or threatened by a child who knows more than them.
That DOES NOT mean my child shouldn't be suspended for hacking as in your example... he has to follow the rules same as anyone else and if he breaks them he has to face the consequences, even when the rules are stupid. Being smarter than everyone else doesn't excuse you from having to follow the rules, but that's a separate issue from a teacher being made because he can change his monitor's refresh rate while the rest of the kids in the class have to get headaches because theirs is set to 60Hz.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
Maybe you can set up the Win-box like suggested and then require them to pay for the privilege. Some small token payment of $0.25 per hour may be enough to remind them of the cost just to use windows!
Of course this is all assuming that you wish to drive home the cost/benefit of non-free OSes.
http://www.ofset.org/gcompris/
;) :)
My 2 kids (2 and 4), my wife and mom (65yrs
old).... have been run linux for 2+ years now
and don't know or care what OS they use........
I know they are using the right one....
use redhat, icewm, mozilla, openoffice, guncash,
and gcompris.....works very nice for all....
My baby loves to listen to music and watch the visualizations in iTunes.. it calms him down when he's screaming and puts him to sleep when he's tired. Also all babies like to look at pictures of themselves and other babies... so the iPhoto slide show also works to calm him down.
Seriously, my iMac is the easiest way to put my baby to sleep... making it a wonderful investment!
Of course, he likes the light on the optical mouse and is always reaching for it and trying to chew on it... which is not a good thing.
I think it would be nice to have a simple rugged PDA type computer to use as a baby toy... it could play music with bright colors.. and run simple little games for toddlers.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Starting them early gives them an advantage. I was editing autoexec.bat when I was 7 and 8 years old, building machines when I was 13. Now I pay for university tuition and books by having programming and hardware jobs. (Debt free student.) Learning early pays.
my dad got our first pc in 1978. when i was born (in 1983) we had gotten a commie 64. i simply can't remember when i first used a computer, because it's been my whole life. i don't know what you're doing with the computer, but my hands feel fine. i think i evolved past carpal tunnel syndrome somehow. the first "OS" i remember using was Power Panel which was really just a DOS gui (and pretty slick, free with a Mouse Systems mouse). then we put in a BNC network and got Windows For Workgroups since dad wasn't actually a tech-head, he was a mechanic. now i use XP primarily with linux on a box i don't actually use for anything except uptime (currently about 2 years i think). so that's what having a child being raised on technology from birth is. not a mozart of computing, just a geek.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
I suggest letting them continue to use Windows XP. If it keeps crashing, they'll complain. When they ask you, "Dad, why does it crash?", tell them honestly that it's because some of the software doesn't have 100% compatibility with the OS. "What can we do to fix it?", they'll ask.
As others have pointed out, the truthful answer is to revert to Windows 98. So why even mention Linux?
What if you asked if they wanted to try out a different OS with different games? Then, install a copy of RH or Mandrake and all of the free games that come with it. Then, set up KDE/Gnome with the right age-appropriate menu for each kid. In this way, you will be using Linux's flexibility to give your kids a better user experience.
Also, what about investing in a bigger HD and copying the CDs to the drive so that your 3 y/o doesn't have to swap CDs and rely on autoload. You could even consider installing VMWare (or maybe Wine, if it turns out to work) so that your kids can go into Windows when/if they want.
Over time, each of your kids will develop preferences on which OS they like.
One caveat, however: One of the best ways to learn about computers is when they're not quite working 100%. Let your kids learn from this on their own. Sometimes, it may take a few hundred program crashes to motivate a kid to read a few HOWTOs.
Amazing magic tricks
A little warning from someone who's been down this road: Carpel tunnel syndrome, thoracic outlet syndrome, and other supposed repetitive strain injuries are all psychosomatic (the physical symptoms are real, but are caused by the mind). When I was 22, I experienced this myself as TOS that I thought I had for over a year, but it turned out to be something called TMS, and once I realized this it went away. To learn more, Google search for: sarno tms. You don't have to have pain, and even more important, you don't have to fear screwing up your hands either (which was my original mistake). Argue this all you want, but I've already been there.
:) Ah well, I can understand them not wanting to put up with the noise.
I used computers since I was 8 (I'm 24 now). I am very happy that I did so because it made my career. In any case, I am very glad my parents provided me with access to computers. I pursued learning computers by my own choice, but they gave me the opportunity. So if a child exhibits interest in computers, by all means give him/her the opportunity, but don't force anything. A little guidance can help, but again don't force anything, only if the child is interested. Do the same with any other interests, be it sports or music. I am still upset that my parents didn't buy me a drum kit when I was 9, despite my constant begging. I would've been a pro by now
Although XP may be better from a technical standpoint, the license agreement that comes with it is horrifying. I recently bought a laptop with XP (which I absolutely didn't want), and I decided to boot it up. I was presented with the EULA. It said, among other things, that Microsoft is allowed to collect any information about you with or without your knowledge (think spyware) and sell it to 3rd parties. It also said that they and certain other companies (acting under MS's DRM) can install software and delete files from your system, again, with or without your knowledge. You are also required to register the machine online or the OS will stop working after 30 days. If you change your hardware or re-install the OS, you have to re-register. You are only allowed to re-register something like 10 times before you're required to buy another copy (at $300 a pop). And all this was just in the first 20% or so of the agreement. I didn't have the stomach to read the rest of it, so I blew away the partition and installed Linux.
The point is that if you click "I agree", you're saying that it's okay for anyone to walk all over you, Microsoft or otherwise. That's just not something I could ever agree to. The scary part is that most people don't even read the EULA.
For every post, there is an equal and opposite re-post.
We have a 12 y/o girl here and we've been dual-booting for about 6 months. When it was up to her linux almost never got booted up. We wanted her to use linux more, mostly because you have to know more than "click next" to change anything. Now linux is used almost 100% of the time. We did it by forbidding internet access from Windows.
Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
No way! They'll be so far ahead that the teacher will just hand all the teaching over to them, and let them get the school over on Linux.
When we got our first computer, it was a really big and horrendous computer. But, contrary to what all my friends had, it couldn't play games. So, I started to program instead. The story was pretty much the same with the other geek in my class. Allthough most kids in my class quite soon would have the same equipment at home as they did at school, they would never catch up with the two of us who had to use harder equipment. Nor could the teachers.
The basic point here is that kids adapt and learn very fast, and few games, well, find something else that's cool, programming for example. And once they've learned some essential concepts, they can very well use any other system, including MS Windows. Like I did, they're just going to find it frustrating to use dumber systems.
Actually, my advice to this parent would be just to drop MS Windows. The kids will figure out cool things to do on Linux, you can bet on it. It may not be the same things they do now, but they'll be more creative.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
If you want you kids to learn how to use any OS and/or PC hardware, here is what you do:
1) Show them the latest and greatest games, apps or chat-programs, etc.
2) Let them use it for few days.
3) Erase the OS and dismantle the computer in front of their teary eyes.
4) Tell them if they can't use it until they put it back together and re-install the OS.*Tough Love*
Nowadays used PC parts are so cheap who cares if the hard drive falls down the stairs or a if mouse is destroyed.
people always ask me how i know so much about computers and OS's. My answer is simple, GAMES. How else would I have ever figured out TCP, IPX, OPEN GL, video card secrets and what the heck DMA is for.
There has to be something seriously wrong with your machine. I have 4 XP machines at home. The one I use almost every day I have rebooted for... well I can't really remember the last time but it had to be more than a month or two ago. The computer my kids and wife use the most gets rebooted maybe once a month. I would seriously look at your setup if you have to reboot multiple times a week.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Young kids don't understand the value of a dollar nor the importance of freedom and until they do it's silly to force it on them.
Young kids understand what they are given the opportunity to learn. My 2-year-old knows what money is, and she knows that we have to buy things before we can take them out of the store. She knows where to put the item on the checkers counter, and at which point she will be able to handle the item again. That these things are bought with money shouldn't be difficult for her to understand, and if she hasn't figured it out already it's only because I prefer to be cashless.
Likewise, any kid that has been grounded or put in time-out knows the value of freedom. Relating it to software may not be a simple thing, but they already understand the basic concepts.
The whole "kid friendly software" thing is a straw-man. How many of us had kid friendly software when we were kids? Even the games I loved and played all the time would be considered kid hostile by todays standards, and yet I, a kid, had no problem using them.
Retraining is an adult issue, not a kid issue. Kids adapt quickly and easily, they have to; the bulk of their first 20 years is largely training and retraining.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Agreed. Let them use a computer, play an instrument, etc. if they want. If they don't want though, don't force it. (And do get them to do other stuff.)
Bring your kids up with what you believe in. When they're young, they'll follow along and soak it up.
:-)
Absolutely correct. This is the only way religion can survive.
I soaked up my mother's atheism until I was 16, looked at the universe and realised there might be a God after all. Then I met Him.
The slashtrolls will probably ridicule my belief.
That's okay, my sig ridicules yours
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Exactly. I was just talking to a friend who's wrists and arms have to be supported. I explained that I've been typing for 22 years (Commodore - age 10) and I don't have any such feelings in my fingers, wrists and certainly not "burning elbows" like she has. Maybe the 18 year-old poster has split his time between a keyboard and one of those new-fangled joysticks with 50 buttons on it -- something I've never touched. I've got another 30 years in my hands and wrists the way they feel today.
Intelligent Life on Earth
I suspect my story is the same as many others here. My Windows PC has alot of good educational software and games available for my daughter and does an okay job. But I use and prefer Linux for just about everything else. So when I started looking for alternatives in Linux for my daughter's usage, I found the selection quiet lacking in comparison. Futhermore, as I researched more on the Internet, I found posts from people asking the same questions several years back. It really looks like very little progress has been made. The same questions keep resurfacing. So I hope that the Kid's Linux web site becomes a repository for knowledge gained by the community.
If you check out the site, please do not be disappointed by the lack of content. I'm just getting started really. As time progresses and more members of the community get involved and make suggestions, I think that we will have a nice little site.
I don't you you can really say there's a direct correlation. You can say that there's a positive trend between time spent on music and grades, but the studies so far have been conflicting. There's really too many factors to consider.
It might mean that people who are good at math will choose to play musical instruments; the reverse not necessarily being true.
It might mean that people with good grades are more motivated and confident, and thus take music.
It might mean that people with good fingers play music and punch numbers into calculators faster.
Who knows?