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Digeo To Ship Full-Featured Linux-based PVR
Gentu writes "Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft, has embraced Linux in his latest product offering, Moxi. Moxi is a PVR system from Digeo with some additional cool features, like wireless ethernet support, internet/router/firewall/gateway capabilities, DVD playback and more media functionality in general. OSNews has the article, screenshots and more information. "
Why would I want my PVR to act as a router?
I am going to venture a wild guess and say that the licensing costs to run windows on this thing would be the #1 reason why Mr. Allen is using linux...
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
This article makes a big deal about the fact that Moxi is using Linux, but neglects the fact that TiVo has been out for a few years with a Linux-based PVR already.
Isn't TiVo's PVR based on *BSD or Linux?
Just adding "Linux" to the title doesn't make it newsworthy.
Sorry, but its just following the trend of TiVo.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
It's cool that this runs on linux, but it would be nice to see some of the higher layer software or tools provided in open source form.
I would love to get one of these and start writing collaboration apps that run on it, but if the development model is closed, how can I?
It's only going to be avail from your cable provider, you can't buy it at Circuit City, and they make a big deal of securing the content, which means I won't be able to "tape" SG-1 onto it and copy it to my burner. I'll pass.
Sold. I -love- my TiVo, but the lack of HDTV functionality is going to kill them if they don't rectify the situation quick. Several people I've talked to about getting TiVo are reluctant not because they have HDTV now, but because they want to be "ready" for it in the future. They don't want to invest in a technology that's near a dead-end.
Moxi will be available via cable providers or other Premium TV companies, and the hardware will be custom for each one of them.
IMO, that will be the biggest problem for them. Standalone TiVo is ubiquitous. It can be used with just about any source... anyone's cable box... any satellite system.
Of course, 90% of consumers (maybe more) are sheep. It might work out well for Moxi since the hardware will be coming from "their cable company" and not some third party. Do you think most cable consumers have any clue who makes their cable box and what features is has? To them this thing will be just another cable box with some cool stuff.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
"Another useful feature of Moxi is that the ROM and operating system can be completely upgraded on the fly from the cable operator via the included modem. This way any bugs or other problems on the customer's device can easily be fixed."
All those neat features you thought were too good to be true, that led you to buy the box? They were bugs. We fixed 'em. No need to thank us.
Lovingly yours forever,
The cable company.
I hope this thing is expandable, it would be cool then to have it be the wireless hub as well, serving out connections to laptops, etc around the house.
It will be interesting to see if they're as liberal is TiVo with the hacks though.
The article states that the unit will have MSN Messenger built in. This might be a stupid question, but how will they get a licensed MSN Messenger on the Linux box? Doesn't that mean Microsoft will have to create a Linux port?
Confucious says: Man who runs behind car gets exhausted.
// jeku.com
My Freevo box is Linux based, and can act as a firewall/gateway/router. Do I get a slashdot article too?
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
take a look to freevo ( http://freevo.sf.net ) & MMboX ( http://mmbox.tuxfamily.org ).
If the cable company can offer it for the cost im paying for my Tivo per month, then I might switch just for the extra features. But - they need to allow me to FF through commercials easily, and not bombard me with annoying banners or ads. And it has to be FAST. If they try and stick their fingers to far into the pie, it'll be ruined. They'll need to play it smart.
I know it's technically possible (I love Ogle myself) but how did they legally pull this off? Does this "Broadcom graphics chipset with dedicated video capabilities" have a DVDC licensed CSS decoder, is it included with the DVD extras package they're selling, is this all thanks to Jon Johansen, or has some company released a Linux version of a legal DVD player? Neither the article nor the company's website gives any details.
If this actually ships near the first of the year, like the article claims, it will be the first commercial HDTV PVR.
Of course, since they mention that it will be sold as a customized box for cable & satellite services, it's not clear what 'shipping' means. Does that mean that Moxi is done with the platform, or that DirecTV/Dish will be ready to ship a unit that I can buy?
If it's the former, it will be quite a while until we see these.
For five to six hundred dollars, if you're unscrupulous, you can buy a TiVo with lifetime subscription, and add a TiVo network card, and load software to download your shows to an existing computer.
You could also try a TiVo with lifetime sub, and a video capture USB device (like a Dazzle or Pinnacle), and add it to your existing computer.
Both will guarantee that you'll get a far better interface than one that you could build, plus an exceedingly rich featureset.
But rolling your own does have a "I want to figure out how this works" appeal, as well...
"My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
Moxi looks awesome. One of Digeo's partners is Scientific Atlanta. TimeWarner's digital cable boxes (most of them) are built by this company. In fact, the new "DVR" that TimeWarner is releasing soon is Scientific Atlanta's Explorer 8000. And from what I've read, it sucks (right now).
Which leads me to ask, why doesn't TimeWarner wait for ScientificAtlanta's Moxi-based device? I mean, TW is pushing HD in several markets, and yet the Explorer 8000 doesn't even support HD (even though the literature says it does... check the wiring diagrams, no HD).
Hopefully they will offer Moxi soon. I love my TiVo, but a sweet device like Moxi, integrated with my digital cable service, combined with HD support equals TV HEAVEN.
"And like that
*please* let this not be vaporware...
Sad to say it, if they sell a box with those features, thats as easy and convenient to use as my Tivo, my Tivo may be relegated to my bedroom instead of my living room...
This is only
If Bill Gates created a Linux-based vibrating buttplug, it'd be front page news on
(personally I'd use OpenBSD for that, less chance of a backdoor assault.)
:P
Trolling is a art,
Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft, has embraced Linux in his latest product offering, Moxi. Moxi is a PVR system from Digeo with some additional cool features
Uh oh....embrace and extend anyone?
I was loving it right up to the point where they explain that these will be available through the cable companies and enhanced tv providers. This means that it will be rented by and owned by companies that control what shows can be recorded, and can prosecute anyone caught 'tampering' with the device in any way.
If I could simply buy the hardware, great! But they know that they will make a more steady stream of money offering essentially a tivo like cable box to cable companies who can rent them to customers for $20/mo or more, who will gladly pay for them rather than $400 or more for a Tivo.
It's a great business idea, and I see them putting Tivo out of business in the larger markets. Tivo (and other pvr companies) will have to maneuver furiously to maintain their current customer base, nevermind a growing base.
But all is not so happy in geek land. You won't be able to record shows, or even pause shows, that providers don't want you to - and eventually that'll be most movies, lots of first run shows, etc. Skipping commercials may be disallowed at the providers descretion.
It's essentially a bid to take back TV, while providing customers with a facade of extra functionality. I bet they'll win, since eventually service providers will be required to use such devices if they want to carry certian premium channels - though that's a while away, it's coming.
-Adam
Ah yes, another epic battle is about to commence. Similar to how TiVo and ReplayTV started battling. The biggest problem I see with Moxi is that their business structure doesn't allow people to actually 'own' the boxes. The whole craze about TiVo is it's expandability and their functionality as a stand-alone product. I'm sure when they come out with the Series3 TiVo, they will have incorporated several of the features that the general public are crying for.
I think people are blowing this out of proportion. Moxi was an independent company until about 6 months ago, when they were bought by Digeo (Allen's company). So, there was a choice then to scrap all the Linux work and start from the ground up with WinCE or XP-embedded. Or, they could take the easier path and finish their Linux project.
I'm sure the costs or WinXX, and power of Linux were factors in that decision. But, it's not like he just snubbed MS, his cash cow, because Linux was too compelling.
Hell, it won "Best of Show" at CES in January and they still haven't shipped a product. Their claim to having a deal with Dish Network also turned out to be completely bogus. Then, they nearly went bankrupt, fired their founder/CEO and got sold to Digeo.
Don't get me wrong. The stuff Moxi demo'd at CES in January was incredible and if they can pull off even a fraction of it, they'll eat TiVo for lunch (assuming TiVo doesn't respond with similar features). However, their kitchen-sink approach is hugely ambitious and it'll be tough for them to ship all the cool stuff they demo'd at CES, such as wireless distribution. That, coupled with the fact that they're selling boxes only through cable companies and other TV service providers, rather than as standalone devices, will probably keep the feature set minimized.
So don't hold your breath about getting everything they're capable of delivering.
What is their business model. Does anybody know?
You would think that people would realize that it is difficult to make money selling hardware. Somebody will always try to sell it for less. Without a decent margin on your equipment, why bother?
And I think that Tivo has shown that there is not a huge market left of people who want to pay a $10/mo subscription for updated channel programming lists.
So how exactly do these guys expect to make money?
-S
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Paul: Bill, how's it hanging?
Bill: What's up?
Paul: I brought you my latest toy, man. It's a PVR and stuff.
Bill: Cool. What's it running, CE? XP?
Paul: Linux.
Bill: Linux? Linux? You frigging idiot, we're trying to crush Linux!
Paul: Since when?
Bill: I sent you an email, you retard.
Paul: Yeah? You'd better read your own freaking manual, bigshot genius, because you didn't copy me on that.
Bill: Crap. Oh, well. That's what I pay all those goddamn lawyers for. Look, I'll buy you out and go Chapter 6 or whatever it is these days.
Paul: But...but I don't want you to buy me out. This is my baby. Why don't you go think up something novel on your own? Oh, wait - you can't, can you, Mr. Innovation?
Bill: Piss up a stick, Allen. I want that Linux hellspawn dead asap.
Paul: Well, you can...what's that rumble?
Bill: Sounds like the plumbing.
Paul: Wait - don't tell me you turned the hoppers into smart devices.
Bill: Yep. Booted them up today, and they haven't been hacked yet.
Paul: What time this morning?
Bill: About ten minutes ago-
(Sounds of exploding geysers, shrill screams, porcelain shattering.)
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
It should be noted that the Replay TV 5000 supports USB 802.11b adaptors. I decided to pick one of these up since it can use the net instead of requiring a phone line like Tivo
Note to self: RTFA.
Here're the Big Questions:
Can the cable companies forbid us from modifying the source?
At least parts of it are going to be GPL. Will they still be able to resist giving us the source code?
Even if they do give us the source code, can they forbid us from patching it and modding the box?
Is there legal basis for charges based on "violating the spirit" of a contract?
What's this Submit thingy do?
Keep in mind that so-called "standalone Tivos" are *analog* recording devices- they work with all systems because they support the ubiquitous analog inputs and do all the digital encoding and compression on-board. But to do HDTV cost-effectively, you'll have to capture the streams *prior* to decompression, since components capable of compressing a full HDTV source in real-time probably aren't going to be cheap enough to use in mass-market consumer devices for quite a while.
It's like the DirectTivo, which stores the encrypted, compressed satellite feed on the disk directly, and only decompresses / decodes when you watch. This requires custom, DirecTV-specific hardware. For DRM reasons, I doubt that any satellite or cable operator is going to let you grab unencrypted, but still compressed HDTV data from their set-top box and make it available in form to an external "standalone" PVR.
Of course, traditional VHF/UHF broadcast is a different matter, but keep in mind that, unlike a standalone Tivo, a PVR that supports broadcast *won't* automatically work with a cable or satellite system for the reasons described above.
Part of the reason why this isn't exactly true is because Microsoft announced [techcentralstation.com] it is completely dropping UltimateTV
I noticed that when you said "Microsoft announced..." you pointed to a news article on another site, rather than a press release on UltimateTV's site. So I read that article, and sure enough, the author of that article says "Already, Microsoft has announced that they're discontinuing their UltimateTV set-top box,". So then I clicked his link to UltimateTV's site, and found absolutely no mention of any supposed discontinuation.
The Press Releases section bears no mention of any discontinuation. You can still buy it. If the company discontinued the product, it wouldn't make much sense that they'd still be promoting it.
This ZDNet article mentions some restructuring:
But UltimateTV didn't take off as Microsoft had hoped, and the company recently announced it was restructuring that division and laying off some workers.
So I found that article.
And then what may be the source of this rumor. A ZDNet "Story" by David Coursey entitled, "Why UltimateTV was an ultimate failure." From the piece: "If you call Microsoft, as I did, you will find the company disagrees will [sic] my assessment that it is getting out of the DVR business."
So as near as I can tell, some guy thinks Microsoft is getting out of the market because they cut their staff from 500 to 160. I dunno, maybe they are, but my point is that there was never a "Microsoft announced..." moment. At this point, it's still rumor. So let's keep the facts-to-speculation ratio as high as possible on slashdot. You too, moderators.
Paul may piss off the people working on the X-Box, but he's not going to affect UltimateTV one iota.
If your speculation is what you were basing your conclusion on, then I must disagree. I doubt Microsoft is really all that happy that a founder's company is using Linux on anything, regardless of their relative strength in that market.