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Japan Takes A Look At Open Source Software
irish_spic writes " Accorting to this AP story (in yahoo news), the public management ministry is setting up a panel of scholars and computer experts, including Microsoft officials in order to study the use of Open Source software in the government. The article cites concerns about costs and security as the reason for the study. Me wonders if they are serious or just trying to get discounts from MS."
Japan finds linux zealots, looks at slashdot. Japan gets scared.
Japan calls Microsoft instead.
The end.
The ultimate closed source society ponders adopting open source technology..
Oops. :)
Me wonders if they are serious or just trying to get discounts from MS.
Does it really matter? The end result is more press, more mindshare and for them to come right out and say that they are concerned about security is just... excellent. Soon the rest of the worlds governments will all be running Linux and the US will become a technological backwater. I guess if I want to stay employed here, I should start working on that law degree.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.
I think that's the point. The panel would be pretty useless if it was only composed of OSS advocates, as they'd only hear and consider one side of the story. The closed source side needs to be there to give them the pros and cons of closed source, allowing them to make a better decision. That's the theory, anyway.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Just some observation I have since I am in Japan and everything.
Microsoft (or BSA, anyhow) seem to be spending a lot (i mean a LOT) more money here on "anti-piracy" campains than in the US.
Trains are usually littered with BSA (piracy is crime) posters, and they have a HUGE (like maybe 40 feet across) sign in front of Shinjuku station (you know, downtown tokyo and all).
At the same time, I havn't seen free-software related stuff at all since I have been here. It might be the language barrier, but ancedotally speaking, I don't think I am seeing the same % of shelf space devoted to linux than in the US.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
My understanding is that BSD is fairly popular in some Japanese companies right now. A college friend of mine was the guy who translated the FreeBSD docs into Japanese. Linux might be a bit too political, but BSD OS's seem to take the conservative, stable approach. --gary
Shhh!
I get all my karma by reposting all the (Score:5) comments on repeat stories.
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
Anyone who has read that cursed SP3 EULA, and is concerned with MS's continually increasing use of force over their User Base (read: DRM, activation, etc) can't be too surprised by this. Yes, MS products are expensive and for 15yrs+ have become a constantly increasing % of an overall system cost. Big surprise. It's no wonder that slowly, country after country is starting to either re-evaluate their stance, or altogether shift away from MS products.
pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
[...] the public management ministry is setting up a panel of scholars and computer experts, including Microsoft officials..."
In other news, the farmer has invited a group of forest critters, including some foxes, to guard his hen-house.
Finally, someone doing it right.
/rant off.
For years companies have been pitting competitor against competitor until in the end, the customer gets the right bang for the right buck.
Too many times I see Slashdot going on about how evil Microsoft and how great open source is, now thanks to Japan, we have a Showcase for PROOF POSITIVE what the world at large wants to know.
Microsoft or Open Source?
You don't think this is a testbed for something better?
Committee Meeting, Day 1 9:00am
MS: OpenSource Bad
OS: Microsoft Bad
Japan: Why?
MS&OS: Shit good question.
Justification is the key, and when spending money the way the Government does, getting 3, 4, 10 different companies via'ing for the business all leads to better justification.
OS or MS: We Won the Bid/Implementation because Japan wanted this this and this, we proved we had it, they didn't.
You get the picture
Yo Grark
-Canadian Bred with American Buttering
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
As opposed to the open source advocates being biased? On one hand I agree with you, but on the other I think to myself that if open source feels threatened by or can't compete with Microsoft when playing on a level field with equal opportunities for representation, then I think there's more to worry about here than just Microsoft being present.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
I'm a major fan of open-source and all that, (using Gentoo as I type this) but there are still bad parts of OSS, like a lack of a really good Office clone, which is very important for businesses. It would be remiss for any organisation to choose OSS over MS based without looking at the (few) things they'll lose by chosing OSS.
is it just me, or is this one of those really, really american things to say? just that when something goes wrong, it's not "What went wrong and how can we fix it so it doesnt happen again" but "It went wrong, sue the fuckers!" (Insert rant about responisbility, parents, and Columbine here). Why is it that people cant possibly say, "oh, I fucked up, because i didnt read the freely accessible instructions, but instead have to blame someone else? just my $0.02.....
"Good night, good work, sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning." - Dread Pirate Roberts
Microsoft: expensive, slow development for fixes, laughed-at-by-main-stream-media security, closed source - which further stifles development, foreign, you support a monopoly
Linux: cheap or free, rapid and constant development and bug fixes, industry reknowned security, open source, it is "yours" once you embrace it, you support a grass roots movement of heart felt computer users and developers
It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.
It seems that a lot of people are wondering why MS is on this evaluation board. I am by no means a fan of Microsoft, but has the very name come to immediately spawn that much distrust in anyone who even hears them out?
The reason MS is on the board is simple. As it says in the article, Japan doesn't want to base their (potential) migration on hearsay. Simply put, they want to hear both sides of the story. I know a lot of us have heard the MS side of the story and dismissed it as garbage, but not everyone has.
Why do so many of us critisize somebody for trying to objectively attack a subject like this?
I wish there was some there was some way that I could be outside playing basketball, in the rain, and not get wet.
http://www.asahi.com/business/update/1116/005.html For those of you than can read Japanese.
This same person?
To answer and continue your analogy: Yes, we give the enemy the plans to the castle, but we also give a whole shitload of castle designers and defense experts the plans, and they go over them with a fine-tooth comb and make sure our castle is well designed. While this is more true in the BSD world than the linux world, the same applies top both. Programmers can't build trojans into major software because anyone looking at the source, who has the right experience, will see it and it will be removed. This is the basis on which OS works.
Also note how quickly trojans slipped into major OS software are discovered, usually very quickly (matter of hours?) of the trojaned software being posted. Specifically, compare that to the (lack of [days, weeks, never]) speed with which M$ updates major security holes in thier products.
And, no, I should not have used the goddamn Preview mode first.
Did you notice the finish date for the study? March 2004, yes 2004 not 2003! It is not as if it is a big study - only $410,000.
Governments when faced with something that they don't like often make it go away by commissioning a study, by the time that it comes out the fuss has died down and everyone has forgotten about it. I hope that that is not what is happening here. If that is the case, this is one 'fuss' where events will overtake the report.
Somebody set us up the penguin.
Japan checks open source
Japan calls microsoft in
Microsoft gets raped.
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Would you rather they simply post an "Ask Slashdot?". Would you want a group considering adopting DRM technologies to only hear speakers advocating DRM, or would you want anti-DRM speakers to be heard as well?
When you study things, you find pros and cons. Is there any better way to see two sides of a story than invite both advocates and opponents of a given issue? If Open Source is indeed superior, it will be shown through discussions from both sides. If the presence of MS representatives is sufficient to show disuade Japan from adopting Open Source, then there are obviously faults that need to be fixed.
You don't study technology by gathering together a bunch of advocates: you study technology by pitting advocates against opponents.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
This is a risk regardless (as opposed to irregardless, which is not a word) of the openness of the source. Which MS product shipped with the "Netscapeengineers are weenies" backdoor password?
I assume you mean "Regardless" (without regard or without regarding) instead of "Irregardless". (It's not a real word, but it would mean the opposotie of the sense youwere trying for if it was a real word.)
OpenSource will almost definately get you faster patches (at least compared to MicroSoft's security-though-denial strategy). Also, remember when MS shipped a CD with a virus-infected product? (Does someone want to find me the /. story or another link?) You can manuallycheck for all known types of flaws/malicious modifications with OpenSource. With closed source you can run virus checks, but it's usually infeasable to decompile and look for back doors.
Who do you give thr death penalty after a suicide attack? If you fall back on the legal system or the prison system, you've got problems. When was the last time a customer sucessfully sued MS for damages due to faulty products or neglegent design/coding practices? Spotty scurity is usually better than rock-steady-awful security. There's also a lot to be said for being about to do your own audts instead of having to trust the vendor.
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
Many proponents of Open Source are employed by companies who support their ideology. Examples of this were Bruce Perens (formerly at HP) and Linus (employed by transmeta, but most of his work is still focused on the kernel).
Yes, even OSS advocates can have economic factors driving their beliefs.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Of course Japan like OSS software. With names like "Mozilla" who can blame them?
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
I'd say that this is much better than MS being given an opportunity to respond to the report directly to the politicians and in the absense of of those same OS-knowledgeable experts.
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
I can't believe how many posts I've seen that go along the lines of:
Micro$oft on the PANEL? ROFLMAO. It's not Objective! They'll never pick OSS! Who puts Micro$oft on a panel about OSS?!?!
Meanwhile, all the posts poiting out how dumb this is havent risen above a 3.
Newsflash zealots, to be "objective" you have to have viewpoints from ALL the sides, not just the one you want to win. The Japanese are doing the perfectly correct, and intelligent thing by including Microsoft on the panel.
Why not fork?
My only hope is that the committee will be savvy enough to know when M$ (or is it M¥?) is being disingenuous.
Of course here in the US we can easily discern whether this is the case: Just check to see if their lips are moving.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Ya'll do NOT get it. The panel shouldn't contain OSS partisans NOR M$ lackeys. It should contain ONLY individuals capable of running an OBJECTIVE study one way or another. All you get with this nonsense are two opposing sides calling each other names (metaphorically speaking). It is a foregone conclusion that the OSS people will push the great benefits of OSS while the M$ clown will spout how great M$-crap is, blah, blah. No objectivity anywhere to be seen.
An objective panel made up of objective individuals who run a faithful study on total costs, and benefits, top to bottom, money-wise and moral/political/freedom-wise.
Anything else is bullcrap.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
I was thinking that for non-US governments TCO is not as much as an argument as MS would have them believe. If using linux or any other open source solution requires staff to be paid more, then those staff will come from the same country. Therefore this will keep that money in the local economy rather than pouring it into MS coffers. I you were a foreign government would you rather give money to a) your citizens or b) foreign megacorp ?
There is a Japanese study, simply called the Linux white paper 2003, that studies current use of Linux in Japan. If you don't read Japanese, a summary of the material is available in Why OSS/FS? Look at the Numbers! in the market share section. Look for the point that starts with "A Japanese survey found widespread use and support for GNU/Linux; overall use of GNU/Linux jumped from 35.5% in 2001 to 64.3% in 2002 of Japanese corporations, and GNU/Linux was the most popular platform for small projects." Note that this is the percentage of corporations using it at all, not the number of total machines, but it certainly suggests interest by the Japanese corporate world. Various other statistics are quoted as well.
- David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)