Lik-Sang To Take On The Big 3?

kableh writes "According to a press release on Lik-Sang's website, the gaming accessory company has new management, and is prepared to mount a strong defense in their upcoming lawsuit against Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony. "Just a few days after having received High Court Orders not allowing us to sell Mod Chip products for the Playstation 2 and Flash Linker products for the Nintendo Gameboy Advance, Lik Sang realized that the powers of those three multi-billion dollar corporations are simply infinite compared to the budgets and resources businesses like Lik Sang have available. Their legal actions have been hurting our customers and our business a lot in the last couple of weeks, so that we have finally decided to let somebody else take over Lik-Sang.com and solely concentrate on the lawsuit", says Alex Kampl, Director of Lik Sang International Limited."

Comments

Customers First

[Doomrat]

"Their legal actions have been hurting our customers and our business a lot"

That's something you don't see often - they mentioned customers first. Lik-Sang really are great, and I'm personally glad to see them sticking it to the man.

Re:Customers First

[Hunterdvs]

Hrrrm yes they want to put customers first. I don't think so. I bought a flash linker a number of days before the lawsuit hit. A month later I get a form email telling me I will recieve a refund the first day of november. Well it's november 22, and i still havn't recieved a refund for an item i should have recieved in september.
Lucky for me my credit card company issued me a refund (credit card policy, not lik sang) and as far as i know they have not had any luck with lik sang either.

I'm not alone in this situation, just search google groups for a large list of people who made off a whole lot worse that I did, especially the ones who sent them money orders and paypal orders.

If lik sang really wanted to put the customers first they would answer our emails and/or issue refunds that are months overdue. Lik sang is in it for the cash, nuff said.

Re:Customers First

[neostorm]

I ordered a flash linker kit around the same time you did and received my refund on the 15th this month.

Hope it gets cleared up. These guys really do give me the best experience as far as customer support and satisfaction goes.

Re:Customers First

[Doomrat]

Heh, sorta waiving your anonymity by adding the URL to your site, there.

I didn't realise that so many other people had been shafted by lik-sang. From what I'd heard, my own experiences, friend's experiences etc., lik-sang have been nothing but helpful. Though I expect as with any company, it only takes a single bad rep, customer service guy or lost order to give a bad impression.

...difficult

[sheean.nl]

Sueing only Microsoft is virtualy impossible, sueing Nintendo, Sony AND Microsoft is going to be quite a suicidal task... how much money do they have to burn?

Re:...difficult

[cryptor3]

Just for the record, Lik Sang isn't doing the suing, it's doing the defending.

More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[Guppy06]

Watch some video game commercials on TV. You'll notice that the games are published for GameCube, Playstation 2, Game Boy Advance, PC... and a distinct lack of Xbox support. The only games I see advertized for Xbox are only for Xbox (which suggests poor third-party support), and they've now resorted to the marketing gimmick of giving away free games with the console.

Mod me down all you want, but I can't escape the impression that Xbox is floundering. Software houses that stressed they were going to be hardware agnostic a year ago now... aren't. Barring any miracles, I forsee the Xbox going the way of 3DO in less than a year. They just don't have the first- and second-party support to keep their heads above water.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[Maul]

Interesting observations.

Sega was tried to give away free games with the Saturn to try to sell it... and we all know what happened with that.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[gss]

I wouldn't count out M$ just yet, they still have plenty of cash to throw at XBox. We all know that when Microsoft wants to dominate a market segment they are usually pretty relentless until they get what they want. They have bought exclusive rights to some titles just to boost Box sales.

Also I think Xbox live might make them more of a viable competitor, from what I've heard it's a better user experience compared to Nintendo and Sony's online offerings, albeit a pay service. I know several people who have bought Xboxes recently just for Xbox live. So who knows, it will be interesting to see where these console wars go.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[ScottKin]

Hmmmm...

Splinter Cell Hitman 2 Madden NFL 2002 Madden NFL 2003 (along with most of the EA Sports franchise) Tony Hawk Pro Skater 4 (for that fact, most of the entire Activision franchise)

Now, the Xbox has been out for how long now? Just barely a year, and they have quite an impressive stable of games:

Xbox Games Catalog

Give Microsoft and the Xbox the ammount of time it took Sony to gather their collection of PS2 games (I won't even acknowledge the PSOne catalog, since the Xbox is *significantly* superior to the original PS/PSOne), and you'll see them being on-par with where the PS2 Catalog is now.

Game Development houses have repeatedly stated that developing products on the Xbox is also *significantly* easier than for PS/2 products.

It just goes to show you that people will take any opportunity to poke the most sucessfull Software company in history in the eye, even if it is just for spite!

ScottKin

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[Guppy06]

"Now, the Xbox has been out for how long now? Just barely a year, and they have quite an impressive stable of games"

So? GameCube has been out for an almost identical amount of time, and yet they seem to be more supported than Xbox. I've seen plenty of advertisements everywhere for games for everything but Xbox. And I don't mean "one game for PS2, one game for GCN, one for PC," I mean "three games, all playable on PS2, GCN, PC, and not Xbox."

"It just goes to show you that people will take any opportunity to poke the most sucessfull Software company in history in the eye, even if it is just for spite!"

I'm not making this up. Next time you're watching TV, keep an eye out for game commercials. There are a few Nintendo-only commercials, fewer Xbox-only commercials, and the rest advertise support for every hardware platform under the sun except Xbox. You're more likely to see "Available for PS2, GCN and GBA" than "Available for PS2, GCN and Xbox."

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[brain159]

What's worse about the free bundled games is that they're packed OEM-style both on to one disc with a heap of trailler vids, and you don't even get a proper game case for that disc, just a paper+plastic sleeve!

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[drasfr]

One thing to think about...

Microsoft is not Sega, Microsoft has _DEEP_ pockets and they clearly said it, they are willing to loose money for some time to gain market share. Microsoft can afford to loose $1B on one product for its launch, sega wasn't able too.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[imr]

Yes, but for the first time, redmond is not in a position to succeed because:
1/ the consumers are aware. Everybody and his grand mother know of the monopolistic behavior of redmond, even windows die hard fans.
(the other day i saw a comedy on tv on prime time, where they put a show showing microsoft eggs in the supermarket:
to buy your eggs you must first pay and subscribe a contract through an undecypherable eula which gives you the right to buy eggs.
Then you can buy your box.
At home in the box you see locks on the eggs, you must phone microsoft to obtain the lock to open and use each egg. The phone call is billed.)
2/ the market is aware. This time, they re not going after a sleeping giant like ibm, It's Sony which is also a huge company but can't be caught off guard. And other smaller compagnies won't give them any support since they know they'll get swallowed or destroyed if Sony loses. Smaller compagny like Nintendo are serious actors not to be dispised. Its management is wise, expert and the console sell well in Japan).
3/ The place is already fillen with ps2. Every kid I know, and through my kid they re numerous, who likes consoles has a ps2. The few who havent want a ps2. The rest wants a game cube by the way, out of "nintendo does great games" attitudes (mario and zelda fans for example).

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[Guppy06]

"Give Microsoft and the Xbox the ammount of time it took Sony to gather their collection of PS2 games"

Do they have that time? The PlayStation 2 didn't have any real competition until the Xbox and GameCube come out. They had to fight the Dreamcast. Microsoft, on the other hand, has to do all that while trying to fight against Sony.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[Guppy06]

"I wouldn't count out M$ just yet, they still have plenty of cash to throw at XBox."

How much money you throw at a game generally doesn't affect how good the game is, one way or the other. They're like movies like that.

"We all know that when Microsoft wants to dominate a market segment they are usually pretty relentless until they get what they want."

But in just about everything else Microsoft had the ability to leverage their operating system monopoly in order to get what they want. But, just like the DVR market, Microsoft doesn't have any such tricks up its sleeves in the console market.

"They have bought exclusive rights to some titles just to boost Box sales."

Nintendo is the only video game company that has show the ability to consistently make exclusive games good enough to drive up hardware sales. If exclusive Sega titles were enough to keep the Xbox competitive, they would have been good enough to have kept the Dreamcast, Saturn, Game Gear, etc. competitive.

"Also I think Xbox live might make them more of a viable competitor, from what I've heard it's a better user experience compared to Nintendo and Sony's online offerings,"

But nobody knows how well console gamers will take to what has originally been a PC-only gimmick. PC gamers and console gamers are apples and oranges.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[scrain]

Wrong.

The GameCube came out a few days before the Xbox, officially, but was not actually seen in most stores until the weekend after the Xbox had launched.

Nintendo made a weak announcement to stores that they should "Go ahead and sell the Gamecubes you already have", when most stores had none yet.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half

[imr]

I'd like their games available for anyone but I wouldnt wish their hardware to disappear, as much as i hated to see the dreamcast go away.
The dreamcast was the best(and still is) of its generation.
And the gamecube is a much more impressive piece of technology than the ps2 or (haha!) the xbox.
Tell me about components integration!
But that's not the point. The point is: "a monopoly is a bad thing. period"

I think it's great...

[ThogScully]

...to see people really stick up for what they think is right, especially when so many people aren't willing to play ball with such big corporate identities. This seems to be a a pattern lately.

Hopefully, it can become a huge PR boost to take on a big powerful company and let the common people know more about these sort of conflicts. That can act as extra incentive for small companies to stick up for their rights and further bring attention to these problems.
-N

Re:I think it's great...

[Tofuhead]

It's very easy and comforting to romanticize Lik-Sang's reasons for being so adamant in their own defense, but you have to realize that, above all, they are protecting their bottom line. Their clientele is largely composed of mod-chippers, and if they can't please these people, business will suffer.

It's similar to how Apple caters so well to their Mac customers. It's an effective means towards an ultimate goal (PROFIT!!!), not proof of Steve Jobs' undying love for the unwashed masses.

That being said, I also admire Lik-Sang for what they are doing. But I admire them for the balls that it takes to stand up to the big console manufacturers, not for their virtuous behavior in defense of the little guy.

< tofuhead >

Re:I think it's great...

[drinkypoo]

It's very easy and comforting to romanticize Lik-Sang's reasons for being so adamant in their own defense, but you have to realize that, above all, they are protecting their bottom line. Their clientele is largely composed of mod-chippers, and if they can't please these people, business will suffer.

As far as I can tell, their clientele is entirely mod-chippers, or at least gamers. Everything else on their site is perpetually out of stock.

And as we know, a dramatic number of gamers are chippers. I actually bought a chip for my PSOne from modchipinc.com but they didn't provide me installation instructions for my model of PSOne (I can't find them anywhere else either) so I haven't managed to install it.

MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[Samir Gupta]

We had developed a special proprietary media for the GameCube, which makes piracy all but impossible. There is also no internal hard drive to act as storage, either. Therefore, you don't see much GameCube warez or modchips floating about, compared to the PS2 and Xbox scene.

MS and Sony, with their resources, should have invested time and money to develop proprietary media as well.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[neonstz]

I am the (proud?) owner of a PS2 (not modded), GC, X-Box (modded) and a GBA (with Flash Linker).

First, what I really hate is the region system all systems (except GBA) use. I live in Europe, and I feel it is sad that I have to wait several months for some titles (like Metroid Prime and Super Monkey Ball 2). I'm really looking forward to the Freeloader for GC (if it ever ships).

The reason Sony and Microsoft didn't use a proprietary media is because both PS2 and X-Box are supposed to be more than a game console. I'm not sure if that was a wise move, but the X-Box do at least have a potential as a home entertainment system (although not exactly the way Microsoft wanted it :).

What I really wonder is why Nintendo joined Sony and Microsoft suing Lik-Sang. The flashlinker is not just for copying games, but for developing too. I have written some GBA demos, and I the GBA is a really nice piece of hardware. I never use my GBA for games anyway, as I only own one (original) game. (I'm really considering buying Super Monkey Ball Jr, that game is just incredible!)

And... is this a hoax or is this for real?

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[ymgve]

We had developed a special proprietary media for the GameCube, which makes piracy all but impossible. There is also no internal hard drive to act as storage, either. Therefore, you don't see much GameCube warez or modchips floating about, compared to the PS2 and Xbox scene.

Fine. So, can you now lower the price of your games, since you're obviously not affected by picary anymore?

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[MrWa]

MS and Sony, with their resources, should have invested time and money to develop proprietary media as well.

A better idea would be to let me play a game that I buy anywhere in the world on the system that I already own. That's the problem - proprietary systems may be nice for the manufacturer that wants to limit my ability to play legally purchases games without buying second system; for the enduser they are nothing but frustrating.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[kenthorvath]

In regards to this proprietary media, I have heard that it is just DVD media that is mini-CD sized and spins backwards. First, can anyone else substantiate this rumor. And secondly, how hard would it be to modify a DVD-Burner to spin the other way around?

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[Phil Wilkins]

The Dreamcast could also boot off of a vanilla CDR, leaving the door open for the modless console.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[0x0d0a]

It would be a bad idea from a financial standpoint -- people are willing to pay current prices.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[The Cydonian]

I will let you in a dirty secret -- off the record, Nintendo, et al. aren't too concerned about importing of games (and DVDs, etc), compared to piracy.

I'm assuming you are new to the Slashdot scene, but if you're telling dirty secrets off the record about your company, don't identify yourself. The "Post Anonymously" tickbox is available for a reason.

But yes, you've raised a very valid point on region hacks. A very reasonable take.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[Guppy06]

"The reason Sony and Microsoft didn't use a proprietary media is because both PS2 and X-Box are supposed to be more than a game console."

So? The Panasonic GameQ plays both prorpietary GameCube games and DVDs.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[whm]

What I really wonder is why Nintendo joined Sony and Microsoft suing Lik-Sang. The flashlinker is not just for copying games, but for developing too.

Actually, I think you've just answered your own question. Nintendo definitely charges for the GBA development kit. They don't want you to be able to make games on their system without you paying them, even if you're not distributing the game.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[Torgo's Pizza]

Oh puleeeze! Don't try to pull that crap on us. We game developers know good and well the only reason why a proprietary media was chosen was to capitalize on licensing.

Those who have never made a Nintendo game have to realize that you have to fork over some huge percentages to the Big N just to get on their platform. That's why so many developers dropped the N64 and went to the Playstation. Either you let Big N make the cartridges or you didn't make a game for the platform. That's why so many developers stopped making games for Nintendo and went to the Playstation.

The reason why Sony and MS didn't go the proprietary media route is because they didn't want to spend the infrastructure to develop the factories to make it, not to mention the fact they saw how pissed off Nintendo made game developers. DVD works just fine and is cheaper to develop for. The Dreamcast got away with it because it didn't require any specialized CD manufacturing equipment using their compression scheme.

Nintendo may not have a GameCube warez problem (yet), but it doesn't have nearly the sales or the titles the other two platforms have. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Re:MS and Sony should follow Nintendo's example

[kesuki]

It is real, but it requires modification to the gamecube with a bios swapper + modchip And a mod to the drive, to enable it to read industry standard DVD-r.
Not an easy feat. And at nearly $9 (retail) a blank for mini-DVD-r it's not nearly as cheap.
If all three had chosen mini-DVD style media then the pricing and availability would drop, but not by much. DVD-r blanks are made using the same process as CD-r, and yet they're nowhere near as cheap. Although they've finally hit the $1 and below prices, depending on where you buy it (and the quality of the media).
But you don't see nearly as much about GC mods, even though both were released at the same time.
Either there is more demand for the X-box mod, or else the it really is that much harder to make a working mod for the GC.

Legal standing...

[BSOD from above]

if they continue to make and distribute the mod chips without implying that they be used to modify a proprietary system, on what grounds can they be sued?

Put a big disclaimer on the side that says:

DO NOT USE THIS CHIP IN PLACE OF U19 IN THE SONY PLAYSTATION 2 MAIN BOARD VER. 1.3, DOING SO WILL VOID THE WARRANTY AND MAY BE A VIOLATION OF APPLICABLE LAW ...then tell the big three were to stick it...

Re:Cry me a river

[mangu]

manufacturing or selling mod chips is obviously against the spirit of the law

Which law, the law that says once you bought something it's yours to do whatever you like to it? It's this transformation from purchase to "licensing" that's very obviously against the spirit, not only of the law, but also the spirit of capitalism as well.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[Evil Adrian]

American ingenuity did not create the Playstation 2 or the Gamecube...

And what happened to making an honest living? Is charging $200 for an American operating system honest?

Meanwhile in Dayton, Ohio ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Librarian: May I help you, young man?

Frustrated kid on computer: I want to get to Lik-Sang, but I can't.

Librarian: Why, you rude young man - leave at once!

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[nattt]

Mod Chip != Piracy.

Piracy is wrong, but so is not letting you make backups.

Remember when it was "so you've lost your dongle - pay full price for a new copy..."

Now its "Your dog scratched the delicate DVD and level 3 no longer loads - tough, buy a new copy" - or "You broke the disc but you made a backup - now you're a criminal"

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[Maul]

Yes, Nintendo is a fine example of an American company. Red blooded Americans like Shigeru Miyamoto and Hiroshi Yamauchi have created many quality, American games from their headquarters in Tokyo, USA.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[wolfgang_spangler]

Hmm, while I do not own a playstation, xbox, or anything newer than my "classic" nintendo. I don't see anything wrong with a company producing a chip that I can put into something I purchased. If I purchased the ps2 or something, I would expect to be able to open it up and plug whatever damn piece of electronics into it that I want.

It could be that I am missing some grand point here since I haven't been following all of this very well. It just seems to me that some company is creating a product that allows me to void my warranty on a piece of hardware that *I* own. If I buy a Toasmaster brand toaster and a company makes a Toastmaster hack that connects my toaster to the internet I expect to be able to mod my own toaster.

Am I missing something?

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[ekrout]

Is charging $200 for an American operating system honest?

Yes it is. When you consider the years and years of research, planning, development, testing, documentation, and support that comes along with that pricetag, it seems very fair to me.

Microsoft products all have a similar look and feel and the interfaces are intuitive. That's much more than one can say for competing products. The cost of user training alone to use three dozen different GNU-ish applications would far outweight the licensing costs to obtain Windows. Teaching a secretary how to download, configure, and compile the latest version of OpenOffice via a command line interface would probably take a good 3 or 4 weeks (months?) of training.

If you don't wish to use the best product of its type on the market, that's your prerogative. But doing so would be shunning capitalism.

Re:Power corrupts

[brain159]

power corrupts, but surely absolute power - that is, abs(power) (yeah, it's vb syntax, so sue me) - can only be a positive thing? how the hell does that work out? :-)

with great power comes great responsibility

[DragonTHC]

MS, Sony and whomever else(never cared for nintendo) have great power.
This was never about protecting their revenues.
They have chosen to use their power to destroy a small business in hong kong that actually sells usefull products that they didn't think of.

Lik Sang is right about this hurting their customers. Their website was punted like a girl from #bearcave
MS has used their power to disrupt a company from selling legitimate products. I was going to buy a 7" LCD screen from liksang at one point and couldn't. I had to get it elsewhere. Oh Wait, no one else sells such usefull products.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[mangu]

If I smash up my car, am I entitled to a free "backup"?

If you made a copy of it beforehand, and had it stored in a safe place, then yes, you are entitled to a free backup.

However, your analogy isn't very good. A better one would be, if car companies behaved like the media and software industry, you wouldn't be allowed to make copies of your car keys. Lose your key and you have to buy a new car, at full price.

You are full of it

[Dan Guisinger]

Have you stepped out of your house? You are completely full of **** not to mention extreamly biased. Go to best buy, funco land, gamestop, ANY PLACE THAT SELLS GAMES.

They have almost as many games and space dedicated to Xbox as PS2. What about Game Cube? About half the space. I am tired of the fact no body cares about facts on Slashdot. Xbox may not be on the top of the charts, or even close in Japan, but its clearly #2 in the United States and analists are predicting XBox will jump even further ahead of the Game Cube this holiday season.

Let me ask you this. Did you know 150,000 people bought XBox Live in the first week? Did you know there are over 200,000 XBox Live users as we speak (With friends/family logging in as guest, plus the 30,000 beta testers).

XBox is definately selling well in the US right now, and its picking up steam. PS/2 is still selling strong. Game Cube.....I don't know all of the facts, but I only know one person who owns one, and the games just aren't in the stores.....atleast the Game Stop and Best Buy near me have very few Game Cube games.

--

Re:You are full of it

[Drakonite]

They have almost as many games and space dedicated to Xbox as PS2. What about Game Cube?

My local best buy has about 3/4ths of a side of an isle dedicated to XBOX games, the other 1/4 being mostly xbox accessories. The Gamecube has roughly the same space. The PS2 games occupy 2 full isles.

XBox is easily out numbered at my local Best Buy, and it is even more so in other local stores.

Re:You are full of it

[bstadil]

Did you know 150,000 people bought XBox Live in the first week?

Did you know PS2 adapter sold out 450,000 units at launch? MS only made 150k units as they needed the good press of "SOLD OUT".

They claim to have sold 2.5Mu in US and each unit has a build in ethernet adapter so why only make 150k?

Second: MS / Sony et al is breaking international trade law by imposing Area restrictions. I hope Lik Sanfg make that a cornerstone of their defense.

Re:You are full of it

[Guppy06]

"They have almost as many games and space dedicated to Xbox as PS2."

Think about how much shelf space was still dedicated to the Dreamcast this time two years ago. Then think back to what happened during the following year.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[mOdQuArK!]

People, before you reply stating how utterly evil the Microsofts, Nintendos, and other large corporations are, ask yourself this: "What happened to making an honest living?"

Yeah, I keep wondering about that too. I wonder why people think they deserve to make money indefinitely off something that was written down somewhere and has left their control.

Unlike, for instance, people who _really_ make an honest living by receiving compensation for providing goods & services.

monopoly?

[ryochiji]

This probably isn't the case right now, but shouldn't it be considered a monopoly if one corporation (or an alliance of a few corporations) has so much power that they can simply sue competitors out of business?

I mean, shouldn't all corporations (and people) be equal in the court of law, even if they aren't in the real world. What the heck do they call it "justice" for?

Re:monopoly?

[error0x100]

The condition is called an oligopoly (when deliberate and purposeful, a http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cartel">c artel), and it is just one more fairly commonly used method to avoid having to deal with "free-market forces" (i.e, to unfairly eliminate healthy competition). If two large companies (who would normally be in competition) wield considerable control over a market, then they will often just "agree not to compete". In other words, the CEOs realise that they can BOTH make tonnes of money this way, which makes it, in some cases, a much more logical and easy choice than entering into aggressive/risky competition.

There are some well-known of these, such as the RIAA, as well as Visa/Mastercard. Or here in South Africa, there was until recently the Vodacom/MTN cartel that entirely controlled the cellphone market.

Does the Sherman act say anything about oligopolies? Are there are equivalent laws?

One of the tricky things is usually trying to prove that companies have "agreed not to compete".. when a company obviously has a monopoly, thats pretty clear. But if the CEOs and CFOs etc of two large companies have made deals with one another not to compete, its usually fairly easy to hide any evidence of this.

The public often don't seem to be bothered either, because the illusion of competition is usually enough to fool them, and they may not realise that they're being price-gouged because 'for all they know, thats what product XYZ should cost'. (In fact, some companies actually CREATE additional "brands" in order to deliberately *manufacture* the illusion of competition in the market by having two separate brands next to one another on the shelf in the store, and will even do things like have "price wars" with themselves between the brands, to drive up sales. IIRC, the Liqui Fruit and Ceres boxed fruit juice companies ("company") are an example of this. This is a separate issue though)

Incidentally, just like monopolies, the mere existence of a competitor does NOT magically NULLify the condition, since the mono/oligopolies still have "unnatural" powers to control prices or block market entry points (e.g. the existence of BeOS did not imply that MS did not have a monopoly, since MS could still control the major market entry points (the OEMs). In the same way, the existence of small record labels or credit card companies does not "negate" the cartel (and power that comes with it) that the RIAA or that Visa/Mastercard have. With monopolies, the "monopoly condition" may be defined in terms of the percentage of a market that a company controls. I think over here it is 75%, but I may be remembering wrong.

There are many many "sneaky" ways to establish and retain success in a market that have absolutely nothing to do with quality of product, which is why I find the pure-capitalism (unregulated) approach rather naive. People think its all about "building a better mousetrap". I think anyone who thinks this has probably never actually tried to produce and sell a new product. Rhere are many ways to be successful with only a mediocre, overpriced mousetrap, especially if you can block the market entry points of others who might actually have a better mousetrap. "Buying shelf space" is another commonly established practice, in fact, with many retailers, the only way to get onto their shelves is to buy the shelf space. I remember years ago Microsoft used to do "buy shelf space" of software retailers (essentially pay them off) in exchange for keeping Mac and other competing software off the shelves. Microsoft Press made various "exclusionary deals" with a major local bookseller.

Re:monopoly?

[error0x100]

when deliberate and purposeful, a http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cartel">c artel)

Damn, that'll teach me to use "preview" next time. c artel

What a horribly long post. I went on a bit of a tangent there :/

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[kscguru]

If I lose my keys, do I need to pay for a new car?

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[iopha]

Umm, would that be the same American ingenuity that eschewed strong copyright laws for the first, oh, 200 years of its existence? That used protectionist trade barriers to develop its own industries and then denies them to third world countries now that they're strong enough to crush upstarts?

Beyond that, if I buy a product, I think I have a right to modify it if I choose to do so. I own the bloody thing. Imagine the uproar is Ford decided you couldn't change the mags on their cars anymore.

iopha

Napster all over again...

[Bullseye_blam]

Here's my take...

In the Napster case, we saw the defendants argue for their software as a means to distributed free/independent/other music. I think that's what Lik-Sang has to argue here; the ability to play foreign games.

However, in both cases we see another, huge aspect: the ability to distributed copyrighted music (Napster) and the ability to play pirated games (mod-chips).

Do we really have to wonder how this one will turn out? Yeah, Lik-Sang might have a minor issue here, but when the product is being used by so many people to do much illegality, I don't see how any logical person can permit its existence.

Re:Napster all over again...

[Tetsujin28]

...when the product is being used by so many people to do much illegality, I don't see how any logical person can permit its existence.

Sounds like Jack Valenti talking about VCRs, circa 1980.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[Ektanoor]

And have you thought how evil are Microsofts, Nintendos and other large corporations before stating: "What happened to making an honest living?"

Your patriotism is raw as you didn't think about this...

As if you would take some care about how certain corporations came into these megapredatory enterprises, you would just put your patriotism in first place and ask when someone would be able to make an honest living again.

It is not necessary to leave the US to see what certain large corporations did to Amrican ingenuity and innovation. Where are all those small companies that rised the M$ DOS world into the main trend in computing? Where is the shareware world? Where is the chance to rise a profit from a brilliant idea? What happened to Stack, old Borland, Novell and other major palyers in the market? What happened to the ancient Evil Empire of Big Blue which was a menace but still was full of innovation?

There is one thing. Ten years ago we had lots of major players: Microsoft, IBM, AMD, Intel, Novell, Symantec, Oracle, Borland, Lotus and several others. Today we have two sides: the *NIX world vs Micro$oft domination. Some may say this is natural, that there should be some congragation. However it is well known that this was achieved not by natural events and free market but rather by predatory politics. And US courts showed that this was a fact, no matter the half agreements that, for more than 10 years, US governments had with Redmond.

Before looking at Asian expertises, look at your own country and your own countrymen who cannot no longer make an honest living as before. Because you have no worser experts on stealing, distributing and profiting from hard American's work.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[mickwd]

If I smash up my car, am I entitled to a free "backup"?

I don't understand the analogy with mod chips.

What about: "If I buy a car, am I allowed to fit whatever components I like to it to make it perform better? Or can Ford/GM/whoever prevent me from doing so, and force me only to use their components ?"

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[mangu]

Teaching a secretary how to download, configure, and compile the latest version of OpenOffice via a command line interface would probably take a good 3 or 4 weeks (months?) of training.

What is so hard about typing "apt-get upgrade"? For those who cannot learn how to type that simple command, there is also synaptic, which offers a GUI for software installation and updating.

I think secretaries in particular would have no problem at all in using command line interfaces. After all, they already are profficient touch-typists, aren't they?

But that's not the point, secretaries shouldn't do software maintenance, that's not their job. For the professionals whose job it is, competing products offer far more flexibility and ease of use than microsoft products. Try reading the text files in the /etc directory in a typical Unix system:

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Device "Card0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Depth 4
Modes "1280x1024" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480"
EndSubSection

and then try to decode the binary registry file in a microsoft system:

CLSID {4315D437-5B8C-11D0-BD3B-00A0C911CEB6}

Which is the more intuitive interface, again?

This isn't a software issue, dammit

[forkboy]

The thing that kills me about MS, Sony, and Nintendo flexing their corporate might here is that this isn't software we're talking about. This isn't a licensed product...when you buy a PS2, you OWN it, and whatever you choose to do to it once you own, wether that is playing with it, smashing it to bits, reselling it, or fucking around with the hardware, that's YOUR choice. They have no legal say into the matter, so they should have no sway over Lik-Sang for selling a chip that modifies said hardware.

It really chaps my ass that this should even need to GO to court.

Re:This isn't a software issue, dammit

[Erich]

It's NOT yours. You license it.

No, you license the software that runs on it. The hardware is your property, and you (should be able to) do with it as you please.

Re:This isn't a software issue, dammit

[cooldev]

I never cease to be amazed by how greedy and shortsighted people are.

What people seem to be forgetting is that mod chips hurt the smaller guys--the game developers--far more than they hurt Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo. By using mod chips and pirating games* you're not screwing the big three, you're screwing the game developers out of existance.

Developing software is a gamble. The bulk of the cost is up front, and if you're lucky enough to even complete it, and if you're lucky enough that it sells well you might recoup the development costs. If you're really lucky you might even make a profit.

Mod chips diminish the ability for game developers to ever make a profit, decreasing incentive. I don't know about you, but I think that sucks, and I'm all for companies clamping down HARD on people that make and sell illegal products which have the sole purpose of leeching off the success of those who actually do the legitimate, hard, creative work.

*Yes, I know that some people use mod chips for other reasons which are semi-legit, but they are the vast minority.

Re:This isn't a software issue, dammit

[forkboy]

It's actually the publishers, not the developers, that are hurt by piracy. So, unless a company is publishing their own game, piracy doesn't make a lick of difference to them, they still get paid.

Such a small percentage of console games even use mod chips that I doubt the percentage revenue loss by pirates has even hit a mark higher than a fraction of a percent.

Piracy may be wrong, but so is going after after someone who makes a product that is used just as often for legitimate reasons. (especially with no legal basis for doing so)

Re:This isn't a software issue, dammit

[drinkypoo]

The sale of modchips is easily prosecutable under the DMCA, as it is a product designed to circumvent copy protection which has been reverse engineered. The right to reverse engineer things for compatibility purposes was guaranteed to us (I don't remember where, I'm a bad geek) but that guarantee has been revoked by the DMCA.

Lik-Sang is selling illegal devices (under the DMCA) and therefore is violating the law. The law may very well be found to be unconstitutional or at least in conflict with other laws, which of course is what we all (including Lik-Sang) hope for.

Re:This isn't a software issue, dammit

[shepd]

>I'm all for companies clamping down HARD on people that make and sell illegal products which have the sole purpose of leeching off the success of those who actually do the legitimate, hard, creative work.

After reading what you've said, I still fail to see where these products should be illegal.

Suggesting modchips should be illegal because they may be used to pirate is silly. Turning it around you're saying that someone with the skill to reverse-engineer a system and make money doing it doesn't deserve to do it because a coder might get discouraged in making software. Funny thing is, this might be a good thing. Pressure needs to be put on what is clearly a broken system (the current model of software sales) to change it into a system that can generate money without limiting the rights of others to make money (hey, I'm not an economist, just a realist, I don't know how to fix the problem).

You know what, this happens in a lot of other industries. Example: 3rd party car parts. Guess what, when you buy one of these, your car company "loses" a sale, even though they originally put the effort in to develop the product. But you don't see anyone whining about that, however the effects of these third party parts is identical to the effects of a 3rd party modchip being used to pirate software: The original developer of a product (may) make less money.

Fortunately, we don't have laws that give people a right to make money in any capitalist country (beats me about China, though).

I'm all for companies making it easier for smart people to make a living by designing products that benefit the consumer.

Oh, here's an interesting fact: Chips that break console security actually _increase_ the diversity in software. Look up info about Tengen and their clone lockout chip. And, of course, the break Tengen had allowed all sorts of cool things. Camerica's Game Genie being one of them, IIRC, and another being cool things like clone Nintendos (pushing the price of the "real thing" back down to earth, and adding cool addons, like keyboards), and "1e6 in 1" game cartridges with 16 of each game using different colour palettes (all stupid, crappy games that totally sucked, for which the developers were the ones originally ripping off the consumers).

But, alas, people usually only think in the small, short term, which is developers getting the squeeze, and not the long term, which is competition and overall coolness.

Just my 2 cents.

Usages other than piracy?

[xenocide2]

We both that nintendo isn't involved in this suit for the modchips, but rather for the gba flash carts (and gbc). Just how much does developer hardware cost that developers prefer the piracy hardware to your own custom tools? Apparently the pirate hardware is more efficient for them to run as its A) cheaper and B) faster. I've heard stories of testing multiplayer games on illegal flashcarts because they "burn" faster. Hell, on an interview on TechTV or ZDTV or whatever with Iguana soft, there's a clip of Turok 2 running on n64 copier.

Is this really a problem nintendo wants to solve by litigation?

nice, but what motivation?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always like to see the big boys get sued if they are trying to stomp on their little guys to impose their own will. BUT, what I do not understand is why this other company is taking over Lik Sang.

Don't get me wrong -- I do welcome it. But it is an awefully strange business decision from that company's point of view. What they're doing is taking over a company that

• owes refunds to many pissed-off customers
• may not be able to sell some of its products due to legal restrictions
• is going to have a large legal bill, even if it wins
• may very well lose the lawsuit and be liable for some kind of monetary damages

So, what I want to know is what this new company's motivation is. Is the rest of Lik Sang's product line so valuable that it's worth all that? It seems unlikely given the risk, but maybe so. Or, is that other company taking a true selfless action in order to establish a good legal precedent? Or, is there something else I don't see?

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[0x0d0a]

Given that your resolutions are listed backwards from what one would normally want (in yours, + decreases the resolution, - increases the resolution), and you have to hand-edit the XF86Config file to fix this, whereas most people (even admins) never see their monitor identifier...

In related news...

[Alsee]

Microsoft has aquired Pacific Game Technology (Holding) Limited.

P.S.
It was sort of glossed over in the story, but it was Pacific Game Technology (Holding) Limited that took over Lik-Sang.

-

Re:In related news...

[drinkypoo]

So what you're saying is that Microsoft will now remove xbox mod chips from the site and drop out of the legal battle, then pump money into the lawsuit so that they can continue to sell modchips for everyone else's systems?

Re:In related news...

[Alsee]

So what you're saying is that Microsoft will now remove xbox mod chips from the site and drop out of the legal battle

No, I was making a joke that Microsoft could guarantee that they'd win the case by buying out the opponent and having them drop their defense and withdraw all the mod-chips.

While I have a pretty low oppinion of Microsoft tactics, I don't think they would be stupid enough to pull Xbox mod chips and promote mod chips for their competition. It's just too important for them to make sure ALL mod chips are illegal.

-

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half (off topic)

[13Echo]

As much as we like to bash Microsoft, they did well with X-box live. It has finally taken the online PC gaming experience and brought it over to consoles.

Let me remind you that SEGA was the first to take the PC online gaming experience to the consoles. They did it with the Saturn's Netlink, and the Dreamcast was pretty successful at bringing games online (for how many Dreamcast units were in homes).

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[karnal]

No, you'd have to buy a new key. And that may or may not be more expensive than going to sears etc and getting a copy made.

Granted, making a backup is much much less expensive (in the long run) (of a game) than buying another if your copy gets scratched/eaten/set in a microwave. But the car analogy isn't good......

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[Babbster]

"Try reading the text files in the /etc directory in a typical Unix system:"

blah, blah - look at parent.

"and then try to decode the binary registry file in a microsoft system:"

Though shorter, still blah

"Which is the more intuitive interface, again?"

I would say the "more intuitive interface" is the one where I right-click on the desktop, click settings and see those settings more clearly than either of your two examples - why would anyone with Windows be poking around in the registry for resolution/color depth information?

To be blunt, the "more intuitive interface" is the one which I am used to using.

You don't understand how gaming works.

[Inoshiro]

"The only games I see advertized for Xbox are only for Xbox (which suggests poor third-party support),"

Do you know how exclusive titles work? It sure doesn't sound like you have half a clue.

To drive up sales of the Xbox is why the release them! If a game is just for the Xbox, I know that the development team will have had more time to make it work brilliantly on the Xbox.

Also, if the exclusive game is something I really, really want (like Shenmue 2x, Jet Set Radio Future, etc), I am more likely to buy the Xbox to get the access to those exclusive games. I bought an Xbox for JSRF, for example. Platform exclusive games boost sales a lot (the N64 lived and died only for Mario Party, the Zeldas, and Mario 64 for me).

As for multiplatform games, if I have the choice between a game which runs on the PS2, GameCube, and Xbox, I know that the Xbox one will look better than the PS2 or GameCube version, but that it won't have any of the features of the Xbox taken advantage of. It's a bit of a mixed bag that way, but you'd still be foolish to buy the PS2 or GameCube version over the Xbox version (unless you like jaggy-ass graphics, or prefer to limit yourself in terms on online play).

"and they've now resorted to the marketing gimmick of giving away free games with the console."

Maybe you live in a cave, and have no impression of time. But this is the Giftmas shopping season. Sony's not making any deals, but Microsoft has put out its value added package, and Nintendo has cut the price on its GameCube again in order to drive lucrative sales. The largest percentage of console sales happen in the next 4 weeks, and they're looking to load up their consumer base. It's not a gimmick, it's plain sense!

"They just don't have the first- and second-party support to keep their heads above water."

Do you even know what that means? First-party would be Microsoft itself. How is the (potential) failure of the Xbox going to harm them, when they make the licence fee + 3rd-party fee on each Microsof game they sell? Second-party would be someone like Rare, who has a deal which lets them get a little lower licence cost for making Xbox games, because they will only produce Xbox games ever (which is helped since Microsoft owns the majority of the company). Maybe you are thinking of third-party (unaffiliated developer) titles. Third-parties like Sega are sure as hell keeping the Xbox going, with many great sequels to Dreamcast titles that sold millions of copies being kept Xbox exclusive (they get a better licence negotiation this way).

You seem like you have no idea how the console indurstry works. Hopefully this clears things up for you. If you don't like Microsoft, just say it. Don't make up stuff about how the industry works inside your mind, when it's way out of tough with reality.

I'd say it's real.

[Inoshiro]

But moding a GameCube to be all region is less than the pre-done bundle they offer.

The gamebackups themselves are illegal because there is no method they use to verify if someone owns a copy or not.

Re:I'd say it's real.

[haggar]

What media, for the Gamecube backups??? It should be some mini DVD, but there is no such recordable media on the market, neither a writer, as far as I know.

Re:I'd say it's real.

[Russ Steffen]

Not on the market? What about this. Don't know if it's actually GameCube compatible (they say it is), but it is a 3" DVD-R blank.

Re:I'd say it's real.

[haggar]

Well, I admit I didn't know about it. Thanks.

They did lower prices.

[Inoshiro]

I don't know about you, but most of the games in the GameCube section at EB are 59$ to 69$, while the Xbox and PS2 sections are 74$ to 79$ for most games. A new PS2 or Xbox is 300$, while the GameCube is 200$. When you consider the 14% tax I pay in my province on purchases, the GameCube really is the least expensive console.

Capcom is really good at aggresively pricing the Resident Evil series on the GameCube. I'm ready to sell all my Dreamcast Resident Evil games to offset costs :)

Funny...

[HungWeiLo]

Upon reading the headline, I couldn't help but remember the Onion's 1970's headline (from their Our Dumb Century collection)- Japanese Amuse GM Engineers With Attempt To Build Car

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[nathanh]

Teaching a secretary how to download, configure, and compile the latest version of OpenOffice via a command line interface would probably take a good 3 or 4 weeks (months?) of training.

That's a goddamn stupid analogy. Do you train your secretaries to install Service Packs? Add users and reset passwords with User Administrator? Configure your Active Directory domain controllers with replication and redundancy?

I wouldn't expect the damn secretary to figure anything out in the Windows world, yet you'd expect secretaries using Linux to become C programmers. How about you argue honestly instead of acting like some kind of anti-Linux bigot.

Not about piracy

[Froobly]

Within the next year and a half, what percentage of computer users and gamers do you expect to own DVD burners? Of these people, how many are willing to spend the money and effort necessary to obtain media for these devices just to play pirated video games? The few people I know of who own DVD burners use them for backing up large amounts of data, not for copying DVDs. The DVD piracy war will hardly even scratch the current generation of game systems. It probably won't even come into being until the X-Box 2, Playstation 3 and the Nintendo SmallerMoreColorfulExpensiveThing are already out.

With the PS2, it may be different, simply because the console actually can play CDs, which can be burned fairly easily, but with the X-Box and Gamecube, it's highly impractical, even with a mod chip, to pirate games. Gamecube mods, which consist of a switch and a couple of wires, are about region coding. The X-Box mods are all about running unlicensed software, like Linux and MPlayer.

The way Lik-Sang is being attacked is not about piracy, but about control. Microsoft doesn't want to lose $250 per console (I've heard it takes ten game sales to recoup the loss from a sold X-Box), and Nintendo doesn't want people to break their market segmentation. Whether you believe these companies should lose money this way is irrelevant; do you really think we ought to be left holding the bag for their flawed business models? I want my X-Theater-Box, and if Microsoft really thinks it's a good idea to sell a $550 console for $250, then they need a reality check.

Re:Before you pick sides...

[Antos700]

Well, it depends where it is located. IANAL, but from what I understand in Australia, they'd have one leg (Sony lost a case on the de-region chips). In hong kong I believe they don't even acknoledge copyright law, and in the US it will probably get DCMAed (and I imagine they would try that even for the de-regioning chips). So in other words, if they fight it out in the US, bye bye Lik-Sang.

Actually..

[TyrranzzX]

The real reason all 3 companies are sueing Lik-sang is becuase they want to keep their regional game monopolies regional. They sell more expensive in the US than in europe, or vice versa, or they may sell then in japan for 3x as much as in amercia. It's mostly statistics and how they can extract the optimum amount of money. As we all know the lower the price of an item, the more it well sell and vice versa, the more expensive an item is the less it will sell. Throwing all other factors aside, you'll notice that when you plot a graph of this you get a nice curve. Find the optimum point ont he curve, and estemate for those other factors, do some tricky math, and you find metroid prime should be selling at $49.99 in europe and $59.99 in the USA to make the maximum amount of money, even though they are the same game. So, they regionalize their systems, which is inexpensive, and they increase their profits by fixing the market price of their units. Illegally, mind you. Then, some guy comes along with a soddering iron, figures out how to bypass it. Some company starts selling chips becuase the guy figured he can save $20-40 a game by buying it in europe, or some european can get a game 5 months in advance of it's european release, and you start having problems with those statistics. In short, shops would literally spring up overnight to do this kind of thing if retailers didn't think they'd get the full wraith of hades forced upon them. Another thing. The system is designed to play the game while the disk is in. They don't make nay fancy carrieing cases or fancy protective gear for the game when it's on CD. So, over time, the CD will become damaged to the point where it has to be rebaught. By making sure the person can't play the game in the future, and by making sure that you can force people to buy a new game when the original breaks, you can further increase your profit margins. Then when someone questions them, they pay off the reporter or person, or tell them that they do it to ward off piracy then deny the fact that, statistically, they are completly incorrect. They then release the statistics at the end of the year, round off to some big number, and then publish it for joe-smoe's kid to use in his report. So no, it's not hard work anymore. It's the fact that one guy is good at something, and another guy who isn't as good decided to take legal action so he can compete. Game designers, on the other hand, I have a certain respect for. They do work hard and I bet they enjoy every moment of it.

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[Guppy06]

"American games from their headquarters in Tokyo, USA."

Everybody knows that Japan is nothing more than the largest aircraft carrier in the US fleet! :)

Scary factoid: Japan is the only country with foreign military bases in its capital.

That is a good question.

[Inoshiro]

But I suspect that they'd be able to get some mini-DVs. They can make mini-CDs for promotional purposes, why not order a run of 10,000 mini-DVDs? The Nintendo smaller size was just to discourage casual piracy.

Not having developed for it..

[Inoshiro]

I have no experience that way :) I've heard that the GameCube situation is similar, with the custom dev kit having a rich library for audio and video. The PL2 used in some games comes from using a separate DK that can be bought from another company (Factor 5's MusyX development tool, as it's know, is what added PL2 to Rogue Leader, and other games).

I just wish Nintendo had enforced PL2 on all games, like Microsoft mandates 5.1 on all Xbox games (which outputs through either DD or DTS modes).

The PS2, while capable of PL2 now thanks to a recent development kit released for it, only has 2 or 3 games out which support it.

Money to Burn

[Bios_Hakr]

I wonder how far you'd get by getting a cheap-assed lawyer to defend you.

OK, incorperate a company with NO fundage whatsoever. Then have your cheap assed lawyer answer all the legal bull until you get to trial. Once you are in trial, do things like asking Steve Balmer if it'd be ok if you smash an XBOX you just bought. Then proceed to smash it. 2 days later, make him come back and ask him if it'd be ok if you unscrew the XBOX. Let him go back to Seattle. 2 days later, call him back and ask him if you can put a baseball card inside your XBOX.

Basicly, keep the CEOs of the companies there for the entire trial. Make it expensive for the company to defend itself. Call everyone from the guy that thought about the XBOX the first time all the way up to the very top of MS. And keep these hundreds of witnesses there the whole time. Call them to the stand and ask a question. Then just waste as much time as possible.

I wonder what the MS response would be to having hundreds of employees called away to trial would be? Couple that with their expensive assed lawyers, and you just made the trial painful to MS.

Re:Money to Burn

[Bios_Hakr]

If it's a criminal court, you have to answer the summons. Otherwise, you'd be in contempt of court. The judge would issue a bench warrant, and you'd be arrested. Stand-ins wouldn't work.

I would say the Dreamcast is a special case.

[Inoshiro]

Unlike the GameGear (which had no decent games), and the Saturn (which was hard to develop for, leading to fewer games), the Dreamcast had a lot of great titles. However, Sony's FUD about the PS2 kept adoption lower than it otherwise would've been. Once the PS2 finally released, people started to buy it because it could do PS1 games and DVD movies, with the expectation that good PS2 games would also come out. My opinion is that no such good games ever did come out. The Dreamcast used a better graphics card that was easier to program for, and produced a better quality image (IMO).

You're right stating that inferior systems can win, assuming they have a larger array of titles available (NES, PSX), but whenever you have the situation where you have competition between alternate platforms, people tend towards the console with the highest quality. I firmly believe that if every game put out was put out for all 3 consoles, everyone would migrate towards the Xbox based on the strength of the Xbox specs over everything else, and the built-in harddrive (no more memory card issues :)). That's why console makers know to try and woo third-party developers with lucrative contracts, so they can get a comparative advantage for their library.

I'm not sure why you don't see a price cut. Wal-mart (not Wal*mart, as I'm in Canada) has Platinum GameCubes for 195$ CDN. This works out to ~125$ USD. I'm selling my Jet GameCube to get a Platinum one :) (I keep my eye on prices)

"Final Fantasy VII and VIII were better looking on the PC than the PSX. So why didn't they sell as many copies for the PC as they did with the PSX?"

Maybe you've never looked in to it, but PC gaming is very tiny. Because of the troubles of keeping systems updated, patched, and upgraded hardware wise -- in addition to the games -- most people just buy consoles instead. The PC gaming market is about 10-15% of all gaming in general. In addition to that, FF7 required some very specific configurations to work correctly. It often would not run on most PCs because the DX version was newer than what they developed for, or because the 3D card driver didn't conform to a certain behaviour. FF8 was never as popular as FF7 (I bought it for 20$, played it for 5 minutes, and have never touched it since).

"... Sony feels their current market position is good enough that taking such a risk isn't needed."
Sony cut the price of the PS2 in Japan by 3000 Yen, even though they've sold the most units there this year (3 million units PS2, 900,000 units GameCube, 250,000 units Xbox). Is that a risk? No, I think they just want to boost console + game sales over the holidays. Ditto for MS, as they are pushing their packages more aggresively since they now have some games to justify the system as a holiday purchase.

Microsoft sales are not "neck and neck" with Nintendo overall. Each region has its own stats. In Australia, for example, both the PS2 and Xbox sold 10,000 units in the last week. The GameCube sold 1,000 units over the same week. However, in Japan, the stats are 30k for the PS2, 16k for the GameCube, and 1,300 for the Xbox. These numbers are again different for North America.

As for MS' situation, I think you're overstating it. It's still too soon to make such judgements. The PS2 is showing its age, and Microsoft has just started to lever their online service. Nintendo, unlike Microsoft and Sony, has a strong history of first-party games that rock (it's how they brought gaming back to life in the early 1980s, and the major flaw of Sony and MS -- no strong game branding exists on those platforms that is first-party).

Homebrew and region locks

[yerricde]

off the record, Nintendo, et al. aren't too concerned about importing of games (and DVDs, etc), compared to piracy.

What about homebrew software development for Nintendo consoles such as the GBA? Here's what I've gathered about Nintendo's behavior in practice:

• Devices designed for region modding, such as NES, SNES, and N64 region adapters and GCN modchips: Blind eye.
• Devices that make piracy easy, such as flash carts with the same memory map as official carts: Lawsuit.
• Devices designed only for homebrew development, such as the MBV2 cable produced by Lik Sang Manufacturing: Blind eye.

We just have the region locks to keep the suits happy

Specifically, 1) to distinguish 50 Hz (Europe/Australia) and 60 Hz (Japan/America) consoles, and 2) to solve the "Peter Pan problem", where different entities own a particular franchise in different markets. (Barrie's Peter Pan is in PD in >=1923 USA and life+50 Japan but not in life+70 EU.) So why did Nintendo put Japan vs. America region locks on the NES, Super NES, N64, and GCN consoles, but not on the GBA system?

Microsoft's plan for PROFIT!

[yerricde]

If Microsoft buys a mod chip vendor:

1. Remove Xbox mod chips from the vendor's catalog
2. Sell mod chips for Nintendo and Sony consoles
3. Sell Windows for Nintendo and Sony consoles
4. Sell Office and Age of Empires for Nintendo and Sony consoles
5. PROFIT!

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[cpt kangarooski]

Software piracy is a way to make an honest living. Piracy isn't inherently wrong. The US only granted copyrights to US authors for an exceptionally long time -- thus we wound up pirating the works of Dickens, who was really pissed off about this state of affairs.

Copyrights should only be granted if the country granting them, or recognizing those granted elsewhere, finds it to be in the best interests of THAT country.

Thus there is a very strong argument that developing nations should not have copyrights or patents -- it allows them to rapidly improve their state of living to the point where they can afford such luxuries as IP law.

Why should someone in Asia give a rat's ass about Americans? What's in it for _them_?

Hell, that's the fundemental copyright question right there -- why should the public of any country give a rat's ass about even their local authors and inventors? What's in it for the _public_?

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[mangu]

why would anyone with Windows be poking around in the registry for resolution/color depth information?

Because the new scanner driver fucked up everything and right-clicking doesn't work anymore?

Re:What happened to making an honest living?

[error0x100]

Microsoft products all have a similar look and feel and the interfaces are intuitive

If these conditions are what made Microsoft successful (essentially you're making the "MS brought computing to the masses by making it friendly" argument), then we'd all be using Macs today. Mac in the mid-80s was already better than Windows in the first half of the 90s ever was at these things.

Re:More like the Big Two-and-a-Half (off topic)

[13Echo]

Alien Front Online featured voice chat over modem, and it had no lag at all. Their was also a broadband adapter that was available in very limited supply. Unfortunately, it didn't work with all games.

Yeah, well, read the DMCA

[Tom7]

Well, you should read the DMCA (search for 17 USC 1201). That law essentially exists to outlaw mod chips, cable descramblers, etc. It's written with hardware in mind; that's why they're always talking about "circumvention devices" and not circumvention programs!

Now, I don't like the DMCA (especially after my own run-in ) but what you say in your post is simply wrong; they have a fairly strong case against Lik-Sang. Here are the reasons I can think of that the case isn't completely clear-cut:

- The DMCA might be unconstitutional
- Lik Sang is in another country (China?) and is probably not really under the jurisdiction of the DMCA
- Mod chips have other non-circumvention uses: playing import games, hobbyist development

Made in USA, Japan

[Pseudonymus Bosch]

This reminds me of that story about a city in Japan named USA. Thus, they could sell their products as "Made in USA".

Re:Cry me a river

[blair1q]

You aren't buying a product, you're buying a service. The service is a license. If you don't want it so much because you rent it instead of owning it, don't pay so much for it. If you don't want it at the price they're charging, don't buy it at all.

I don't see what's anti-capitalist, anti-free-market, or anti-consumer about that.

Not quite..

[Inoshiro]

"FWIW, Square is effectively a first-party for Sony and they have the extremely lucrative Final Fantasy franchise. Sony also has GTA and Metal Gear Solid."

Square lost ~120 million on their movie. The result: Tactics Advance, Crystal Chronicles, and more for Nintendo platforms. Not exactly 1st or 2nd party anymore.

Mech Assault is just a Live! game to play. It's not very deep, especially compared to Steel Battalion (which I also own and enjoy).

"Of course, none of these are a big as Mario or Zelda, but they're beginning to lose their shine a bit.

Mario's shines were good, but it was just Mario64++. I think Zelda will be a great hit, though. Especially with the preorder disc in Japan, rumoured to also be coming to North America. 3 games for the price of 1! Nintendo is really pulling out the stops to make up for the N64.

I guess Sony likes Enix.

[Inoshiro]

Since Square and Enix are merging. I still see the friendlyness of Square and Nintendo to be more money-motivated than anything else.

Mech Assault is ok. It's fun. But I haven't really had the chance to play past the first 5 or so levels. RE0, Metroid Prime, and Metroid Fusion are much more addicting. And everyone has to see Steel Battalion in action when they visit :)