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Phoenix To Change Name
e8johan writes "Phoenix, the Mozilla-based web browser, is forced to change name. The new name has not yet been decided, but it is being
discussed
. The reason is that the BIOS manufacturer
Phoenix Technologies
dislikes the trademark infrigment. Next week version 0.5 will be released, with a new name."
It's important to note that this has been debated on and off in the Phoenix community for quite some time. Many of the users and theme developers are quite opposed to Phoenix changing its name, but the developers insist that it's a necessary evil. A proposal for the name change on the MozillaZine board spanned into a 20-page discussion.
Whatever they finally decide upon, it's going to take quite a while to win the approval of the users.
I'm sure the browser has many more users than BIOS, since I've NEVER seen a computer with Phoenix bios.
How about "Internet Browsing Masterpiece"? Call it IBM for short.
... as the only thing that can rise out of the ashes of a phoenix is another phoenix!
AnotherPhoenix(tm) just doesn't have quite the same ring however...
It has to be Mozuki. Mozilla, Mozilla....and Mozuki.
Stick Men
people are accidentally wandering onto their website, and they're afraid people might actually recognize their name again *grin*
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
Maybe Arizona should sue Phoenix Technologies for using the Phoenix name. Of course then we'll have the Greeks suing Arizona for stealing the name and then maybe Egypt will sue Greece, Arizona, and Phoenix Technologies in an effort to claim what is rightfully theirs.
We can only hope an actual Phoenix doesn't show up to claim what belongs to him/her/it.
How about "Award"? Hmm, maybe not... "AMI"! Nah, that won't work either...
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Next week version 0.5 will be released, with a new name
Like "Version 0.6"?
Personally I would go for "Feenicks"
I am a Karma Library.
How about "The browser formerly known as Phoenix"?
naah sig schmig
For example, I recently wanted to use a Camel on a Perl website (not completed yet) and I had to consult O'Reilly, since they have a trademark on associating a camel with Perl. Other people can use camels for whaterver they want, it's just that they have a trademark when using it in conjunction with Perl. See the FAQ for more info.
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
"The reason is that the BIOS manufacturer Phoenix Technologies dislikes the trademark infrigment[sic]."
That should say that Phoenix Technologies dislikes the perceived trademark infringement. Whether or not there is actual trademark infringement in this case is very disputable.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Mozilla: I shall call him Mini-me!
I sincerely doubt you'd get away with naming a program that got relatively popular 'Apple' without legal proceedings being brought against you, no.
Trademarking has got ludicrous, especially in the USA, and ANYTHING which is a noun in the dictionary should *not be allowed to be trademarked* IMHO. Fine, allow a custom name to be trademarked, like perhaps Hoover, but not Phoenix or Apple.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
and yes, it is a dupe.
I've NEVER seen a computer with Phoenix bios.
Heard of the "Award Modular BIOS"? That's a Phoenix BIOS as well.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Minotaur
Leprechaun
Kirin
Unicorn
Gelatinous Cube
Rust Monster
Jabberwocky
C'thulu (doesn't count but who wouldn't love a browser named C'thulu?)
Type IV Demon
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Hate to tell you this, but trademarks are allowed to be _real words_, y'know. Just because stones have rolled for millennia doesn't mean you can expect to call the browser Rolling Stone.
BZZT! Wrong! You can call the browser Rolling Stone. You cannot however, start a band called rolling stone, or sell music under a label called rolling stone. When will people learn that a trademark is a narrow thing? Phoenix bios is a software product, like the-browser-formally-known-as-phoenix, so it's fair enough they complained.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
It outdates the browser by quite a bit, and has worked hard to built a reputable brand for itself. Everyone I know has at least heard of Phoenix bios, and it would be a huge disaster for them if the Phoenix name in association with computers would intuitively refer to a browser instead of their BIOS.
Bottomline is that they should have thought about this before they named their browser phoenix.
'nuff said.
Oh ha ha, very phoeni.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" whilst looking for a rock
I think it should be called...
Microsoft Internet Explorer 7
then people will not only understand what it is, but they will go ahead and download it.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
This isn't a duplicate story but rather a follow-up, announcing that the Ph??n?x project is no longer "considering" a name change but has, in fact, decided to change its name. Should have been a Slashback.
Moral: Always do a first level trademark search before you decide on a name for your software package.
Will I retire or break 10K?
What's the relation between this browser and the products of that company? How can they force the name change?
:-P
I think Phoenix Technologies are most know for their Phoenix BIOS, but they also develop Phoenix FirstView Connect. After reading the product description, it takes no genius to see they're related in functionality:
"Phoenix FirstView Connect 3.0 is a powerful, complete software platform that enables digital device OEMs to introduce robust, interactive Internet functionality- as a primary or secondary function- into their consumer electronics devices quickly and affordably. Providing industry-leading, standards-based support such as HTML 4.0, CSS 2.0, DOM 2,0, Javascript 1.4 and Flash 4 with a small code size, FirstView Connect was designed specifically for the emerging Information Appliance market and is ideally-suited for adding new value to both traditional and next-generation digital devices. Having delivered value at the core of digital devices for the past 20+ years, Phoenix provides a flexible and extensible software solution that you can depend on now and in the future."
So you could say they also have a browser.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Legally, the Phoenix browser does not infringe on Phoenix Technologies' trademark any more than the University of Phoenix, the City of Phoenix (or even the City of Phoenix). However, notice they said "The kind folks over at phoenix.com" - Phoenix Technologies has every right to be unhappy about about the Phoenix browser, and if they have politely asked the name to be changed, then this really isn't a legal issue. The Phoenix browser can be renamed simply to be nice.
:-)
IANAL, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is Slashdot after all.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Salamander is a very good name. It's a mythological creature related to fire, like Phoenix, and it's a lizard, like Mozilla.
I hope that, if they change the name, they use this one.
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
Kirin: A mythological beast from China and Japan similar to a Dragon (sort of a cross between a unicorn and a dragon). This is the only decent reference I could find. Fits in with the theme (grand mythical beasts with supernatural powers) of Mozilla and Phoenix. One legend has it that a Kirin was the father of Confucious ...
...)
(It's also a beer from Japan - but presumably they can't claim copyright since it's a common word and there isn't too much link between software and beer
...PNP?
or: 'Phoenix's Not The Other Phoenix' PNTOP?
or: Phoenix Ain't Phoenix (PAP)?
or even better: Phoenix Ain't Phoenix So Moveon Electronic Assembler Representatives! (PAP SMEAR)?
Okay. I'm going back to making turkey now. (Instead of corn.)
How's this for a precedent:
"Whether a mark is sufficiently distinctive to be capable of being diluted is a similarly open-ended question, and a mark's position on the "spectrum" of distinctiveness will not be dispositive.81 Even well-known, inherently distinctive marks may be incapable of being diluted if there is extensive third-party use. Under this theory, Domino's Pizza, Inc., successfully argued that its mark DOMINO'S for pizza delivery services did not dilute Amstar's arbitrary and famous mark DOMINO for sugar.82"
Google turned up 6,190,000 matches for "Phoenix", btw.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Phoenix *BIOS* has nothing to do with Phoenix *browser*.
n ne ct/default.htm
Check out this link:
http://www.phoenix.com/en/products/firstview+co
Like:
MNM - MNM is Not Mozilla.
TBFKAP
I like that
A sig is redundant.
Well, at least they're both lightweight...
How about we call it: - "The Browser formally Known as Phoenix".
I would say sorry to those who can't see that character, but you are actually the more fortunate.
tourettes
I propose:
"Phoenix the web browser, not PhoenixBios who are a bunch of fsckers"
- The unexamined life is not worth leading -
Phoenix (the company) also make a web browser that runs on your BIOS. So there really would be two Phoenix web browsers, which would be confusing.
You're bound to be unhappy if you optimize everything. --Donald Knuth
But we can come up with other names that make sense too. How about something that harkens to the Netscape name (not so obviously that it presents a trademark issue of course). Example: Lightscape (or Litescape). Maybe that's too similar, and we should expand the search to related themes. Galeon used this approach for its name, which is a decent name. Some other cool ship name?
Something like K-meleon, on the other hand is a shitty name (if for no other reason than it's not only hard to spell and thus hard to search for and find on the web).
If you can find a mythological name that seems appropriate (has some associated imagery) and sounds decent rolling off the tongue then fine. Otherwise, we shouldn't limit ourselves to the mythological figures/Phoenix-alike names. I don't want this to end up as another open source project rendered inaccessible to a wide audience by a shitty name (think: Ogg Vorbis). I'll never be able to download and install something on my mother's computer if I have to tell her it's an Ogg Vorbis player.
Neither is Ford, Cheverolet or R.J. Reynolds. These are all just people's names.
General Electric isn't a "custom" name in the tradition of Exxon and Acura either and both words are dictionary words.
"Bob's Hoover Repair Shop" wouldn't be a custom name either, being a combination of a common proper noun and ordinary dictionary words.
Perhaps more to the point would be the name of an actual veterinary clinic not far from my home: "Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop."
I'd wager there isn't another Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop anywhere in the world. This phrase, made up of nothing more than a common name and common dictionary words is a legitimate trademark.
Historically there has been no problem with this concept. The problem has only arisen recently when rich and litigously agressive companies seek to claim *ownership* of a word due the their holding of a trademark.
This is pure bunk. Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop does NOT have the exclusive right to the use of the word "pet" or "shop" or "Bob's," even with regard to other veterinary clinics. Nothing in either trademark law itself or the history of litigation over trademarks implies that right.
The trademark is for "Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop" * as a whole.* As a whole it is a "custom" name.
To complicate matters using particular art may be a mark. That is, in fact, why it's called a trade*mark* rather than tradename. A common lawyer trick is to trademark a particular word displayed in a particular *way.* This appears to be what Phoenix Technologies has done. They have invented a "custom" font for the word Phoenix and trademarked it. Such a mark does *NOT* confer exclusive rights to the *word,* only the graphic in the abstract sense.
That doesn't stop the lawyers from waving around their trademark registration on the graphic and claiming exclusive rights to the word the graphic contains. Have YOU got the $20,000 and 5 years it would take to fight them? They do. In their case it's their job.
In your case it's your life ruined. Guess who wins?
Trust me, the lawyers ( at least the good ones, there are crappy lawyers who actually haven't a clue about legal philosophy. Go figure) are perfectly aware of all of this. They know they don't necessarily have a case ( in this instance they might because both companies deal with computer software) but take these threatening tactics anyway. Their company hired them to trample the opposition and that's what they do.
It isn't the fault of trademark law.
If anything it's the fault of the damned Judges, part of whose job is to throw out obviously bullshit complaints, or at least deal with them in a fairly summary fashion. Nowadays pretty much every doofey complaint gets the full dog and pony show and just the pretrial fillings alone in such a case are enough to break the average Joe.
KFG
I guess you've never heard of Phoenix FirstView Connect.
This sounds like a strong case of infingement to me against the Phoenix (as in, Phoenix, the gecko based browser) developers.
That's right. It's called "firstview connect", and it actually runs an embedded Linux kernel (that's what the page says, anyway).
What are the chances of Phoenix (the embedded browser) to be actually based on Mozilla? I think Phoenix (the company) is right asking Phoenix (the project) for the name change, but they should do it very, very politely. Like an open letter asking to please change the name. Otherwise they'll look like a bunch of hypocrites when they go ahead and use Phoenix (the really good browser) in Phoenix (the BIOS).
You know, the name does get confusing when talking about this...
...The reason is that the BIOS manufacturer Phoenix Technologies dislikes the trademark infrigment.
Phew!
I've lost track of the times I've restarted my machine, held down the delete key and tried to load up slashdot using the BIOS instead of the web browser by mistake. Now I can surf again without fear of making this foolish mistake!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Another lizard monster of mythology is the Basilisk. This bad fucker will turn its prey to stone with a gaze, like the Medusa. There's also a quite cool similarly named real-life lizard, which is capable of running across a water surface without sinking. Other fun mythological monsters that could perhaps make good browser names include the Roc (a gigantic bird, like a Phoenix), Fenris (the wolf monster of Norse mythology), or Jormangund. The latter might in fact be appropriate (although unfortunately long and difficult to pronounce), since Jormangund (also called "Midgaardsormen", the Midgaard Serpent) is a gigantic dragonlike serpent which encircles the realm of humans (Midgaard / Earth). I somehow like the association of a web browser with a creature that encircles the world.
Six sick
Wasn't Killustrator an obvious case of infringement?
Where Adobe has a vector based graphics program called Illustrator.
Where Killustrator is an open source vector based graphics program.
They could have called it Kill, and there would be no case for infringement.
Or they could have called it KVector. Or KPotato. Or Kantor. But they chose to call it Killustrator, which, remove the K, is a *trademarked* name. Now, if Killustrator was an open sourced Ogg Vorbis jukebox, there wouldn't be a problem because there's no way to confuse Killustrator Jukebox with Adobe Illustrator...
It's as if the browser was named PInternet Pexplorer. Hmmm.
Or if Microsoft made a game console called the Microsoft XPlayStation.
Hmmm.
GPL Deconstructed
Why not take the same approach? Call it "Project Phoenix" or "The Phoenix Project" and call the browser something bland? IIRC, a trademark only applies to exact wording - i.e. "The Phoenix Project(TM)" does not infringe on "Phoenix(TM)", even if they both are vaguely software-related in some way. At least it puts you in a defensible position. Just an idea anyway. Let me know if I am completely wrong. Obviously, Phoenix can still sue and argue trademark dilution if they really want, but they would have to prove that there's a reasonable chance for confusion. That seems difficult no matter what. And frankly, Phoenix can sue them anyway if they want, even if they've ceased the offending usage (they can still argue damage has been done to their brand recognition - hah!) - no reason to run scared from a lawsuit, it just encourages more frivolous suits.
Ahhh, glasshoppa. You young and idealistic. Jesi-chan tell you how it is...
It no matta pliah aht.
It no matta dictionary wuhd.
It matta how many billion yen yoah company wohth...
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Fenix :) )
Penix
Foenix
Pfoenix (as in price pfister the pfaucet maker)
PfuckUPhoenix (just remember, as above, the F is silent
And there are the old standbys from the browser wars:
Internet Exploiter,
Internet Exploder
(and one of my fav's)
Nutscrape.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)