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Phoenix To Change Name
e8johan writes "Phoenix, the Mozilla-based web browser, is forced to change name. The new name has not yet been decided, but it is being
discussed
. The reason is that the BIOS manufacturer
Phoenix Technologies
dislikes the trademark infrigment. Next week version 0.5 will be released, with a new name."
It's important to note that this has been debated on and off in the Phoenix community for quite some time. Many of the users and theme developers are quite opposed to Phoenix changing its name, but the developers insist that it's a necessary evil. A proposal for the name change on the MozillaZine board spanned into a 20-page discussion.
Whatever they finally decide upon, it's going to take quite a while to win the approval of the users.
I'm sure the browser has many more users than BIOS, since I've NEVER seen a computer with Phoenix bios.
Does this mean that I can never use "Apple" as a name for my program?
How about "Internet Browsing Masterpiece"? Call it IBM for short.
... as the only thing that can rise out of the ashes of a phoenix is another phoenix!
AnotherPhoenix(tm) just doesn't have quite the same ring however...
It has to be Mozuki. Mozilla, Mozilla....and Mozuki.
Stick Men
people are accidentally wandering onto their website, and they're afraid people might actually recognize their name again *grin*
A year spent in artificial intelligence is enough to make one believe in God.
Maybe Arizona should sue Phoenix Technologies for using the Phoenix name. Of course then we'll have the Greeks suing Arizona for stealing the name and then maybe Egypt will sue Greece, Arizona, and Phoenix Technologies in an effort to claim what is rightfully theirs.
We can only hope an actual Phoenix doesn't show up to claim what belongs to him/her/it.
How about "Award"? Hmm, maybe not... "AMI"! Nah, that won't work either...
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
Next week version 0.5 will be released, with a new name
Like "Version 0.6"?
Personally I would go for "Feenicks"
I am a Karma Library.
How about "The browser formerly known as Phoenix"?
naah sig schmig
before we get into flaming phoenix (bios) let's just say phoenix (the browser) is pre-1.0 and so is the name.
-
How about Mothra? Since they kinda compete.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
For example, I recently wanted to use a Camel on a Perl website (not completed yet) and I had to consult O'Reilly, since they have a trademark on associating a camel with Perl. Other people can use camels for whaterver they want, it's just that they have a trademark when using it in conjunction with Perl. See the FAQ for more info.
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
"The reason is that the BIOS manufacturer Phoenix Technologies dislikes the trademark infrigment[sic]."
That should say that Phoenix Technologies dislikes the perceived trademark infringement. Whether or not there is actual trademark infringement in this case is very disputable.
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
Mozilla: I shall call him Mini-me!
and yes, it is a dupe.
I mean...both have to do with computers, Phoenix (the BIOS manufacturer) has been around for a long time, and I can see that they don't really like their name being used for something entirely different - which might confused people who don't know much about computers - like 'hey my computer also says Phoenix when it boots up, so it must be this same company'.
I mean: the KIllustrator vs. Adobe Illustrator thing some time ago was a bit weird, because Illustrator can be seen as a more general word that can't be trademarked.
However, in this case we are talking about the exact same name being used for different products - and it's not like 'Phoenix' is a generally used, meaningfull word that shouldn't be trademarked, in my opinion.
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
Let's call it BHBCWB - Butthead Bios Company Web Browser....
"TV, a medium as it is neither rare nor well done." Ernie Kovacs
I've NEVER seen a computer with Phoenix bios.
Heard of the "Award Modular BIOS"? That's a Phoenix BIOS as well.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Minotaur
Leprechaun
Kirin
Unicorn
Gelatinous Cube
Rust Monster
Jabberwocky
C'thulu (doesn't count but who wouldn't love a browser named C'thulu?)
Type IV Demon
If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
Hate to tell you this, but trademarks are allowed to be _real words_, y'know. Just because stones have rolled for millennia doesn't mean you can expect to call the browser Rolling Stone.
BZZT! Wrong! You can call the browser Rolling Stone. You cannot however, start a band called rolling stone, or sell music under a label called rolling stone. When will people learn that a trademark is a narrow thing? Phoenix bios is a software product, like the-browser-formally-known-as-phoenix, so it's fair enough they complained.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
It outdates the browser by quite a bit, and has worked hard to built a reputable brand for itself. Everyone I know has at least heard of Phoenix bios, and it would be a huge disaster for them if the Phoenix name in association with computers would intuitively refer to a browser instead of their BIOS.
Bottomline is that they should have thought about this before they named their browser phoenix.
'nuff said.
Anyway, how about Internet Navigator? I think having a name that tells you what it does is a good start for converting n00bs.
----------
the site that David Letterman DIDN'T want you to see
Oh ha ha, very phoeni.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggie" whilst looking for a rock
I think it should be called...
Microsoft Internet Explorer 7
then people will not only understand what it is, but they will go ahead and download it.
Know what I like about atheists? I've yet to meet one that believes God is on their side.
This isn't a duplicate story but rather a follow-up, announcing that the Ph??n?x project is no longer "considering" a name change but has, in fact, decided to change its name. Should have been a Slashback.
Moral: Always do a first level trademark search before you decide on a name for your software package.
Will I retire or break 10K?
like...RIAA - Refactored Internet Access Application.
;)
Yup, no grounds for anyone not in the software business to complain about that name
C'mon that would be like calling some software "Microsoft Works".
Free as in mason.
Isn't there a limit to what you can claim as infringement? If they were making their own BIOS chips and calling them "Phoenix", I could understand. But AFAIK, Phoenix Technologies doesn't make web browsers.
Yes, they do.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Phoenix *BIOS* has nothing to do with Phoenix *browser*. The two names do not create confusion, so Mozilla folks can use the name. A tradamark applies to one specific area. This is wy we have Macintosh apples and Macintosh computers, or, more recently, Windows XP and Athlon XP.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Pheonix?
Baz
Legally, the Phoenix browser does not infringe on Phoenix Technologies' trademark any more than the University of Phoenix, the City of Phoenix (or even the City of Phoenix). However, notice they said "The kind folks over at phoenix.com" - Phoenix Technologies has every right to be unhappy about about the Phoenix browser, and if they have politely asked the name to be changed, then this really isn't a legal issue. The Phoenix browser can be renamed simply to be nice.
:-)
IANAL, and I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is Slashdot after all.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Phoenix, AZ has been called that way for decades before even the concept of a BIOS was born.
Why should this 3 million citizens city have to change name because of a stupid company that has only name recognition among nerds anyway ?
And what should they call it instead ? Arizona City ?
Ridiculous.
The fact that they are different products
On the one hand, you have PhoenixBIOS and Award Modular BIOS, both products of Phoenix Technologies. Phoenix sells BIOS products that contain a ROM based web browser, designed for use in Web access terminals.
On the other hand, you have LinuxBIOS plus a ROM filesystem containing an X server and a web browser based on Mozilla code. This could possibly work in a Web access terminal.
So which is a "Phoenix BIOS"?
Now do you see why Phoenix Technologies is getting so upset?
Will I retire or break 10K?
(Look at the "headers.")
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
Internet Information Searcher (IIS)
Phoenix Is No Bios (PINB)
Better Internet Organizing System (BIOS)
ah well,
other will make up many more.
Why are other peoples sig's always more witty ???
Could it be Phoenix Mail? It is computer related, it does have the word Phoenix in it... and more strangely, it has been available much longer than Phoenix the browser without any action taken on them by Phoenix Bios.
Or is there a selective method of choosing so-called infringers?
Welley Corporation - SLM Scammers
Salamander is a very good name. It's a mythological creature related to fire, like Phoenix, and it's a lizard, like Mozilla.
I hope that, if they change the name, they use this one.
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
... you've got to call it "Itty Bitty Mozilla!"
~Philly
Kirin: A mythological beast from China and Japan similar to a Dragon (sort of a cross between a unicorn and a dragon). This is the only decent reference I could find. Fits in with the theme (grand mythical beasts with supernatural powers) of Mozilla and Phoenix. One legend has it that a Kirin was the father of Confucious ...
...)
(It's also a beer from Japan - but presumably they can't claim copyright since it's a common word and there isn't too much link between software and beer
Anyway, a Rose by any other name still renders pages as quick...
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
Both having to do with computers didn't cut the mustard with the judge who threw out Microware Systems Corporation's suit against Apple over Mac OS 9, despite Microware's trademark on "OS-9," use of the name OS-9 since 1980, and Macintosh users who to this day post Macintosh questions on comp.os.os9 and nearly universally refer to that version of the Macintosh operating system as "OS 9".
Since they are not in the same market, and from what i see, not 'playing' on the otehrs success to trick people.. no real dispute here.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
...PNP?
or: 'Phoenix's Not The Other Phoenix' PNTOP?
or: Phoenix Ain't Phoenix (PAP)?
or even better: Phoenix Ain't Phoenix So Moveon Electronic Assembler Representatives! (PAP SMEAR)?
Okay. I'm going back to making turkey now. (Instead of corn.)
...Browzilla
...because Flagstaff doesn't want to share their name, either.
~Idarubicin
Seriously. I wish someone would have the balls to stand up and fight this kind of crap. Hell, if we all started crap flooding Phoenix.com's email inboxes with hate letters, they might give up on pressuring the Phoenix browser team.
/. every day, the more angry I get and the more I see that the system is failing the people entirely.
Let's face it, the courts generally don't care about you unless you have money or influence. So now we must take our battle against greedy and stupid corporations to the streets, or at least the net. Its not right we have to resort to this, but the more I read
Its time to take it back the only way we have left, though a massive grassroots campaign to fill their boxes with angry letters and to push every negative thing about that company into the limelight as much as possible until they cave in to our rightful demands that they use some fucking common sense.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Phoenix is a word thousands of years old, it has been used in mythology, in movies, to name places, as a last name, and in many other places. The word and idea have been around long before copyright and trademark and therefore should not be able to have trademark rights at all. This is like M$ tring to copyright generic words to describe their software like windows, word, notepad, etc. Good thing those cases lost, we would have to have to pay royalties whether we bought windows 9x or double hung Anderson's.
The only reason this is enforceable is because the lawyers of america will do any dirty trick in the book and be able to win the case. It has been proven that you can get away with murder if you have enough $$.
Again, lawyers are ruining America. Every day is another day where they harm our rights. This process can only be stopped with an armed revolution.
Call it Tucson, just down the road.
What, like Windows?
:P
Yes, much like Windows.
Last time I checked, Microsoft doesn't have a copyright/Trademark on the word Windows....
I mean, when I type 'XFree86 -version' I still see 'XFree86 Version 4.2.0 / X Window System' so it must still be legal, right?
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
How's this for a precedent:
"Whether a mark is sufficiently distinctive to be capable of being diluted is a similarly open-ended question, and a mark's position on the "spectrum" of distinctiveness will not be dispositive.81 Even well-known, inherently distinctive marks may be incapable of being diluted if there is extensive third-party use. Under this theory, Domino's Pizza, Inc., successfully argued that its mark DOMINO'S for pizza delivery services did not dilute Amstar's arbitrary and famous mark DOMINO for sugar.82"
Google turned up 6,190,000 matches for "Phoenix", btw.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Soaring trough the web at warp speed 5.
"Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)"
Soar Soar, v. i. (A"eronautics)
To fly by wind power; to glide indefinitely without loss of
altitude.
HTTP/1.1 400
How about "Microzilla", seems to convey that it is a micro version of Mozilla.
Here are some other suggestions from the story the first time it was posted.
And what should they call it instead ? Arizona City ?
The two leading canidates are "West Scottsdale" and "Ahwatukee North." I expect there will be a couple of dozen propositions the next few general elections till it all gets sorted out.
-- MarkusQ
or patents, MUST be defended, or you can lose the trademark.
This is why you see so many Trademark infringement cases, they MUST be defended, or the owner risks losing the trademark.
Like:
MNM - MNM is Not Mozilla.
TBFKAP
I like that
A sig is redundant.
This is a formal letter. Please cease and desist the use of the word "trademark", hereafter referred as "trademark".
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
TINNAPB
For This Is Not Named After Phoenix BIOSYou keep going until you die..."Me".
Yeah, that worked so well for KIllustrator...
Hydra would be a nice name too. And it is sort of a dragon (many headed monster/serpent)... Kind of goes along with the naming scheme (Chimera, Mozilla..)
--
Overcaffeinated. Angry geeks.
Well, at least they're both lightweight...
They should call it "Speedy Gonzales" or just "Gonzales" ... andale andale andale!!
[alk]
This is petty and stupid. If Phoenix (the web browser) was a piece of computer hardware -THEN- I could understand why Phoenix (the bios guys) would have issue. But it's not.
I mean, it's a fricken WEB BROWSER. And a free one at that! Like.. really. Give me a break. =)
Mecha-Streisand!
http://rocknerd.co.uk
How about we call it: - "The Browser formally Known as Phoenix".
I would say sorry to those who can't see that character, but you are actually the more fortunate.
tourettes
Mozillai ?
why not just change how it's written..
it's spelled (afaik) feenix/feeniks/fenix in several languages..
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I can't belive it's not microsoft internet explorer.
:) very very good beer
I propose:
"Phoenix the web browser, not PhoenixBios who are a bunch of fsckers"
- The unexamined life is not worth leading -
As I recall, it's not trademark infringement unless it falls into the same area, such that the average consumer could be confused by it. Furthermore, trademarks must be specified *at the time of registration* as to exactly what they cover, and that specification cannot be expanded without re-registering the trademark.
The only way I can see for Phoenix Tech to have a case is if their trademark registration is broad enough to cover just about any program that can be run on a computer (not just physical BIOS chips and not just BIOS code). Anyone actually looked up what theirs covers??
Phoenix BIOSs suck (IMO they're still stuck in the 386 era), so who'd want to be confused with them anyway!!
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
KPheonix would imply that it's related to the K Desktop project (which it is not).
Pheonixx sounds like the name of an adult film (The Pheonixxx always rises!).
X-Pheonix might work, though.
Everything is mainstream now.
How long before Mozilla has to change their logo because it's a pretty blatant theft of the Toronto Raptors logo? (NBA basketball team, for those who don't know)
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Phoenix (the company) also make a web browser that runs on your BIOS. So there really would be two Phoenix web browsers, which would be confusing.
... to boycott products of Phoenix Technologies. This is stupid, but maybe "Bye-Oze" would be a good name.
.nosig
You're bound to be unhappy if you optimize everything. --Donald Knuth
OSS has won some past PR battles. Enough well written emails to Phoenix Technologies along with some good media articles might be enough to make Phoenix technologies change their mind.
The word PHOENIX has been around long before there were abacuses, let alone slide rules and computers. Also, Phoenix Technologies makes FIRMWARE not software. Or maybe I should call my friend, John Roberts, who founded Phoenix SYSTEMS, a maker of electronic gadgetry going back many decades, and tell him that there's a company called Phoenix Technologies infringing on HIS name. After all, turnabout is fair play........
Here's a practical suggestion. Phoenix Technologies browser product is called FirstWare Connect. Anyone of us working for a company that is considering this product should do everything they can to sabotage the purchase and use of this product until Phoenix Technologies discontinues this stupid course of action. It has worked with other moron companies. On another note, didn't I just see that the open source BIOS is now working?
But we can come up with other names that make sense too. How about something that harkens to the Netscape name (not so obviously that it presents a trademark issue of course). Example: Lightscape (or Litescape). Maybe that's too similar, and we should expand the search to related themes. Galeon used this approach for its name, which is a decent name. Some other cool ship name?
Something like K-meleon, on the other hand is a shitty name (if for no other reason than it's not only hard to spell and thus hard to search for and find on the web).
If you can find a mythological name that seems appropriate (has some associated imagery) and sounds decent rolling off the tongue then fine. Otherwise, we shouldn't limit ourselves to the mythological figures/Phoenix-alike names. I don't want this to end up as another open source project rendered inaccessible to a wide audience by a shitty name (think: Ogg Vorbis). I'll never be able to download and install something on my mother's computer if I have to tell her it's an Ogg Vorbis player.
Phoenix the BIOS company actually does sell a web browser (FirstView Connect). Now it's targeted towards the embedded market, but how much more clear a trademark issue can you have here?
If Microsoft came out with an open source browser intended only for Windows use and called it MSzilla, people would be flipping their lids and crying foul.
This seems really dumb.
What's next?
Gecko electronics shuts down Netscape's Gecko?
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
I propose a branch and a separate patch to replace all name occurences to "Phoenix".
Would the GPL allow a swedish chef patch to the documentation?
If we all throw a stink, maybe they'll back down.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
Use Phoenix Technology's handy user feedback page and let them know what you think of them bullying our open source project:
I would change the browser name to an unintelligable symbol, and go by "The browser formerly known as Phoenix" ....
Karma? Karma? I don't need no stinkin' karma.
Neither is Ford, Cheverolet or R.J. Reynolds. These are all just people's names.
General Electric isn't a "custom" name in the tradition of Exxon and Acura either and both words are dictionary words.
"Bob's Hoover Repair Shop" wouldn't be a custom name either, being a combination of a common proper noun and ordinary dictionary words.
Perhaps more to the point would be the name of an actual veterinary clinic not far from my home: "Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop."
I'd wager there isn't another Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop anywhere in the world. This phrase, made up of nothing more than a common name and common dictionary words is a legitimate trademark.
Historically there has been no problem with this concept. The problem has only arisen recently when rich and litigously agressive companies seek to claim *ownership* of a word due the their holding of a trademark.
This is pure bunk. Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop does NOT have the exclusive right to the use of the word "pet" or "shop" or "Bob's," even with regard to other veterinary clinics. Nothing in either trademark law itself or the history of litigation over trademarks implies that right.
The trademark is for "Honest Bob's Pet Repair Shop" * as a whole.* As a whole it is a "custom" name.
To complicate matters using particular art may be a mark. That is, in fact, why it's called a trade*mark* rather than tradename. A common lawyer trick is to trademark a particular word displayed in a particular *way.* This appears to be what Phoenix Technologies has done. They have invented a "custom" font for the word Phoenix and trademarked it. Such a mark does *NOT* confer exclusive rights to the *word,* only the graphic in the abstract sense.
That doesn't stop the lawyers from waving around their trademark registration on the graphic and claiming exclusive rights to the word the graphic contains. Have YOU got the $20,000 and 5 years it would take to fight them? They do. In their case it's their job.
In your case it's your life ruined. Guess who wins?
Trust me, the lawyers ( at least the good ones, there are crappy lawyers who actually haven't a clue about legal philosophy. Go figure) are perfectly aware of all of this. They know they don't necessarily have a case ( in this instance they might because both companies deal with computer software) but take these threatening tactics anyway. Their company hired them to trample the opposition and that's what they do.
It isn't the fault of trademark law.
If anything it's the fault of the damned Judges, part of whose job is to throw out obviously bullshit complaints, or at least deal with them in a fairly summary fashion. Nowadays pretty much every doofey complaint gets the full dog and pony show and just the pretrial fillings alone in such a case are enough to break the average Joe.
KFG
I must have wandered into an alternate universe again.
0110100100100000011000010110110100100000011000100
Well, good luck in trying to avoid Phoenix (the company) in the future. Trying to avoid a particular BIOS company is like trying to avoid books with a certain type of paper.
Anyways, I agree with your point that Phoenix never made good BIOSes, but Award always has (they've been a division of Phoenix since Sept 1998).
Ah, but get your facts straight. Phoenix (the company) isn't just in the buisness of BIOS's. They've also made a browser for a number of years.
In the case of a trial, I'm pretty sure that Phoenix Technologies would win quite easily.
Komodo is a product by ActiveState technologie. It's a Mozilla-based IDE.
;-)
So, uhm, "your best name" ever would result in more trademark probs
That's right. It's called "firstview connect", and it actually runs an embedded Linux kernel (that's what the page says, anyway).
What are the chances of Phoenix (the embedded browser) to be actually based on Mozilla? I think Phoenix (the company) is right asking Phoenix (the project) for the name change, but they should do it very, very politely. Like an open letter asking to please change the name. Otherwise they'll look like a bunch of hypocrites when they go ahead and use Phoenix (the really good browser) in Phoenix (the BIOS).
You know, the name does get confusing when talking about this...
Trademark law doesn't always depend on who invented the word first. It's mostly about who uses it in a particular field first. Broadly computers, and specifically, browsers. Here is Phoenix's browser, and Mozilla/AOL/TimeWarner's browser.
Seems that a potential Phoenix customer could get confused.
Google is great, but how about a real trademark search?
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
I think we're all beginning to lose sight of the real issue here, which is: what are we going to call ourselves? Erm, and I think it comes down to a choice between "The League Against Salivating Monsters" or, my own personal preference, which is "The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society."
Erm, one drawback with that -- the abbreviation is "CLITORIS."
(I love Red Dwarf)
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
It was better than Space Invaders! I still play it on Mame sometimes. I had it on the Atari 2600 too!
(What? Pheonix BIOS? They think they have first dibs on the name?)
Um.... PRIOR ART?!?! I this consitutes a piece of software with the name that pre-dates the BIOS.
Unfortunately, gila.org is already taken but I wouldn't be surprised if the owner is slahdot member... I think it's important to be able to tell simple domain name to newbies when they ask about an alternate browser. In any case, gila.sf.net wouldn't be that bad either.
_________________________
Spelling and grammar mistakes left as an exercise for the reader.
> that the people who have created the Phoenix internet web browser change the name of their product.
Which Phoenix internet web browser? The one Phoenix makes, or the one that Mozilla makes?
> There is no likelihood of confusion between the Phoenix browser and your BIOS products.... It bears no relation to your products.
See the confusion now?
> The Phoenix browser does not even make money. It is an open-source product.
True, but if Phoenix doesn't project it's trademarks, then it loses them, and more hostile people than a few open source developers can take advantage.
> Nobody with a brain is going to go looking for a BIOS and try and install the Phoenix browser on their chip,
Yes, just because you don't, doesn't mean other people won't. In fact, Phoenix sells a Web Browser in the bios. This is why Phoenix (the company) would go after Phoenix (the gecko based browser), and not Phoenix Mail and Phoenix (the science software)
Yes, in fact, Phoenix has sold that for a number of years.
But Phoenix (the company) also sells browsers.
...The reason is that the BIOS manufacturer Phoenix Technologies dislikes the trademark infrigment.
Phew!
I've lost track of the times I've restarted my machine, held down the delete key and tried to load up slashdot using the BIOS instead of the web browser by mistake. Now I can surf again without fear of making this foolish mistake!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Another lizard monster of mythology is the Basilisk. This bad fucker will turn its prey to stone with a gaze, like the Medusa. There's also a quite cool similarly named real-life lizard, which is capable of running across a water surface without sinking. Other fun mythological monsters that could perhaps make good browser names include the Roc (a gigantic bird, like a Phoenix), Fenris (the wolf monster of Norse mythology), or Jormangund. The latter might in fact be appropriate (although unfortunately long and difficult to pronounce), since Jormangund (also called "Midgaardsormen", the Midgaard Serpent) is a gigantic dragonlike serpent which encircles the realm of humans (Midgaard / Earth). I somehow like the association of a web browser with a creature that encircles the world.
Six sick
Wasn't Killustrator an obvious case of infringement?
Where Adobe has a vector based graphics program called Illustrator.
Where Killustrator is an open source vector based graphics program.
They could have called it Kill, and there would be no case for infringement.
Or they could have called it KVector. Or KPotato. Or Kantor. But they chose to call it Killustrator, which, remove the K, is a *trademarked* name. Now, if Killustrator was an open sourced Ogg Vorbis jukebox, there wouldn't be a problem because there's no way to confuse Killustrator Jukebox with Adobe Illustrator...
It's as if the browser was named PInternet Pexplorer. Hmmm.
Or if Microsoft made a game console called the Microsoft XPlayStation.
Hmmm.
GPL Deconstructed
Why not take the same approach? Call it "Project Phoenix" or "The Phoenix Project" and call the browser something bland? IIRC, a trademark only applies to exact wording - i.e. "The Phoenix Project(TM)" does not infringe on "Phoenix(TM)", even if they both are vaguely software-related in some way. At least it puts you in a defensible position. Just an idea anyway. Let me know if I am completely wrong. Obviously, Phoenix can still sue and argue trademark dilution if they really want, but they would have to prove that there's a reasonable chance for confusion. That seems difficult no matter what. And frankly, Phoenix can sue them anyway if they want, even if they've ceased the offending usage (they can still argue damage has been done to their brand recognition - hah!) - no reason to run scared from a lawsuit, it just encourages more frivolous suits.
Exactly. When I hear Pheonix BIOS, I think crap 386 that won't boot. They have no customer recognition anyway. When was that last time you heard a computer buyer say, "I want to have a new motherboard, and it needs 6 USB and a Pheonix BIOS."
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Well, probably not, unless the city council or something wants to go ahead and turn the city into a web browser or BIOS manufacturer...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
> Phoenix.org has more mindshare and would win any trademark dispute.
1. What does phoenix.org have to do with anything? Phoenix.org belongs to one Bill Richie. I doubt that he has anything to do with either the Mozilla Organization or Phoenix Technologies.
2. Mindshare does not matter in trademark disputes, except in cases of prior art, which is not applicable here. If anything, Phoenix (the gecko based browser)'s mindshare would strengthen Phoenix technology's argument.
3. It's technically Phoenix Firstview Browser. Phoenix is a registered trademark of Phoenix Technologies, and there is definatly a case of similarity offered between the two web browsers can easily be proven by even any halfwit lawyer. It's more or less a open and shut case by Phoenix Technologies if they ever decided to go to trial.
Fenix Down was the name of the item which would revive a character from the dead in the old Final Fantasy games. It was an incorrect reverse transliteration. Phoenix is spelled phonetically in Japanese, but to go backwards, if you don't know how to spell it, you would write "fenix", or maybe "fenikksu".
They used fenix in the English versions of the games. No one I knew had any idea what a "fenix" was.
My other first post is car post.
It used to be good to pick a catchy, pronounceable, real-world name for a product. On the Internet, on the other hand, it's good to pick something unique and distinctive: "Phoenix" has 6.1 million hits on Google, something like "MicroZilla" has 10. Microsoft and Sun made similarly stupid choices with "C#" and Java ("C#" occurs in music, and the special character makes it difficult to search for). So, check Google before picking a product or project name.
According to government records the only names not yet trademarked are Popplers and Zitsels.
Or how about "Sosumi Browser"?
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
My suggestions:
Kokoda (dragon)
Raptor (the dinosaur) (It tears shreds of Internet Explorer)
Anti-MS Internet Exploder
Goanna (an Aussie lizard... also known as a Sand Monitor)
Stargate (after the TV series)
Mozilla Jr.
Minizilla
MoreZilla
MultiZilla
LCARZilla
AraneaVola (Web Fly in Latin)
AraneaPorta (Web Gate in Latin)
ParvulusAranea (Tiny Web in Latin)
StabilisAranea (stable/steadfast Web in Latin)
VeloxAranea (quick/rapid/swift/fast Web in Latin)
ParvulusVeloxAraneaStabilis P.V.A.S (Tiny Fast Web Stable in Latin)
I hope you found them mildy amusing...
Gobble gobble! Hopefully it won't gobble gobble your system resources!
Berto
Fenix :) )
Penix
Foenix
Pfoenix (as in price pfister the pfaucet maker)
PfuckUPhoenix (just remember, as above, the F is silent
And there are the old standbys from the browser wars:
Internet Exploiter,
Internet Exploder
(and one of my fav's)
Nutscrape.
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Well, good luck in trying to avoid Phoenix (the company) in the future. Trying to avoid a particular BIOS company is like trying to avoid books with a certain type of paper.
In the long run, closed-source BIOSes have to be replaced by open source ones anyway, for a variety of reasons, such stability, flexibility, usability, security, etc. In other words, all the same reasons that made it necessary to replace proprietary operating systems with open ones.
This trend is already beginning.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
I looked, and I didn't see anyone else reccomend "Cheetah." Seems to be the obvious choice for me.
I missed the fact about the embedded browser.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
It's been a while since I've seen a BIOS made by anyone besides Phoenix.
RMN
~~~
...and keep current name (for example, "Phoenix Navigator").
I recall this is what Palm had done with their first product, which was first named "Pilot", but was changed to "Palm Pilot" due to trademark issue raised from Pilot Co.
But in this case the rule is stupid. No one is going to confuse Phoenix the BIOS and Phoenix the Web Browser. Hell, 99% of the people on this planet have never, ever heard of a BIOS.
Phoenix is bitching because they can, not because they have a good reason.
Pheonix (the bios-maker) give some official support (funding? serverspace? hot meals?) to the Pheonix (the mozilla-based browser) project in an effort to "co-opt the brand recognition" and do BOTH the entities some good? Malice gets us nowhere.
If phoenix, the BIOS manufacturer is giving them hard time, just call it "Vogler" (The Bird Hunter Specialist)
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
So how about Lesszilla?
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
They're the same company NOW. However... all *my* Award BIOSs predate the merger.
And when I'm doing the buying, I stick to AMI if I have any choice. Fewer bugs, vastly better large HD support.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?