Making Low-Budget Movies?

strider3700 asks: "One of my favorite shows was cancelled today and it's left me feeling rather bitter towards the mainstream. I tend to like shows more intelligent then 'Survivor' but I'm in the minority so shows won't be made to pick up that small percentage. However now and again I find great video clips on the net. They appear to be homemade and are in some cases very well done. Is it possible to do something like this for a continuing series and place it on the net to share? how would someone go about doing something like this? And I know not to quit my day job."

Comments

Always consult Google first

[4/3PI*R^3]

Make Movies

Duality

[kilroy_hau]

There's a low budget, professional looking, star wars video here

If you visit the site you will find out what they did, what software to use, and general tips to make a movie.

Anyway, the important thing is not the technology, but the history you are trying to tell.

(I'm glad you didn't ask how to get profit, though)

Public TV

[moc.tfosorcimgllib]

If you are in the U.S. (I'm assuming you are), go to a public TV station and ask what it takes to produce a show for them (Usually they will provide equipement you can use in their studio for production).

A few suggestions: buy a nice video camera if you plan to produce a show outside their studio. If you want something with your own homebrew FX, buy a nice video card with TV-in/out functions.

Re:Public TV

[anthony_dipierro]

So you might as well take advantage of it.

Re:Public TV

[hether]

There's a big difference between public television and public access television.

Public television gives us things like Sesame Street. Public access television gives us shows that some kid created with his two friends and a sock puppet.

It is true that public access stations will usually let you use their studio and equipment for free or little charge. I doubt the same can be said for public television stations.

Re:Public TV

[akb]

Municipalities are allowed to collect up to 5% of cable co's gross revenue, with around 20% of that typically allocated to public access stations.

Why Not?

[Timinithis]

Look at the success of Troops. Granted there hasn't been another one made, but while this falls under the parody aspect, creating something within a genre doesn't have to be a parody, and if well done can actually gain the blessing of the original creator. I remember I was one of the luck few at DragonCon 1998(?) where they debuted a film short made by an Australian troup depicting the delivery of the Death Star plans into the hands of the Alliance. They focused on Mara Jade, a definite Lucas/SW copyrighted character, and were blessed by George himself. This was *not* a parody at all.

Re:Why Not?

[wizzy403]

I was there for this. It was 1999, the film was called Star Wars: Dark Redemption. Shortly after we saw it at D*C, Lucas pulled his "blessing" of the film, sadly.

What the hell is your question?

[GuyMannDude]

I really couldn't understand what you are asking. We understand your motivation but little else. Are you asking how to distribute large video files on the internet? Are you asking about how to deal with the legal issues of using copyrighted characters? Are you asking for advice on video equipment? Are you asking how to make a movie?

I'm not sure any of us are going to be able to help you since it's not clear what skills you have, how much money you're willing to spend and what, specifically, you are having a problem with. And it's not at all clear to me what that sentence about Survivor has to do with anything. Why did you throw that in?

Editors: why are you accepting submissions like this? This Ask Slashdot question isn't even well posed!

GMD

Re:What the hell is your question?

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

I thought the intent of his question was pretty obvious. He's noticed that readily-available media offerings aren't generally high-quality, but that there is a fair amount of good stuff floating around that's relatively freely available, and though he isn't sure what's involved yet, he'd like to put his metaphorical money where his proverbial mouth is and try to contribute to this pool of good watchable material.

In other words, "While there seem to be fewer and fewer worthwhile shows in the mainstream media (such as the unnamed show that has been canceled, and I think most slashdotters can guess what the likely quality of its replacement show will be) there seems to be a growing pool of good free material online, and I'd like to contribute. Has anyone here been involved in this? What do I need to know to participate?"

Yes, it IS a very general question, which contains a lot of smaller questions within it, but this is Slashdot, not rec.arts.video.online.bandwidth-questions or some similarly specific tech support forum. I think what the poster was hoping for is some discussion of all of the aspects so that he'll be able to formulate more specific questions and take them to more focussed forums. Besides - general or not, someone interested in improving the quality of available entertainment ought to be encouraged regardless of how much they already know about the subject, not told to go away until they already know most of what they need to do...

(I didn't at all get any sense that he wanted to continue the cancelled show, just that the cancelling of what he considered to be a good show was an indicator of the decline of "mainstream media" quality, which I think most of us can sympathise with.)

So, yes, all of the above, and more. Seems a perfectly valid and potentially informative topic for discussion here. A few of us occasionally read the more general "ask slashdot" discussions for general education ourselves...

So...to contribute what little I can:

Firstly, decent writing and acting (even for animation - hey, somebody has to do the voices) is the key to watchable material. This is probably already obvious to the person asking the question (as well as everyone else here) but it should be said.

As to the "internet distribution" portion of the question, one might contact the The Internet Archive and the folks at Creative Commons about hosting and licensing, if one's willing to release the material freely.

At this point I'll also throw in a nod to one of my "pet causes" - Ogg Theora which, if they get a bit more visible on the development of it (likely to happen in March, when the format freeze is supposedly scheduled, though the second Alpha release is due Real Soon Now. At the moment, though, development appears to be a "Monty Only" project that shows up as infrequent "chunks" of updates in CVS when official releases come out. At least news is starting to show up on the mailing list...) will supply a very nice no-license-hassle format for distribution.

Transforming the recordings to a wide variety of internet-ready formats can be done with MPlayer/MEncoder in combination with a few other tools (ffmpeg, mjpegtools, the aforementioned Ogg Theora), not to mention using mjpegtools' encoders to convert video dumped from MPlayer to VCD or SVCD format for viewing on standalone players.

Someone else will have to comment on technical issues of camera and recording media types most suitable for generating internet-ready material. In MY opinion, if one handles the rest of the matter well, it's probably possible to produce perfectly adequate "good amateur quality" internet videos with ordinary off-the-shelf video cameras and a halfway-decent digitizing card. Last time I attempted video capture it was from a VHS tape, with a BT878-based card and "streamer" from Xawtv to store as a relatively high quality mjpeg/pcm quicktime file [to allow > 2GB files] then dumped to mjpegtools to generate SVCDs.

Any other topics in this broad discussion I've missed?...

Undergrads

[Screaming Lunatic]

Yeah, I hate it when my shows I like get cancelled. Right now I'm watching the 13 episodes of Undergrads over and over and over again. It comes on 4 times a day on Teletoon. And I still don't get sick of it.

Then you get crap like Bachelor which will be going into its third season.

Enlist talent from community theatre

[shunnicutt]

I can't comment on any technical issues, having never really realized any of the crap I planned when I bought my camcorder.

However, it occurs to me that you need people to put in front of the camera and stories for them to tell. Check out your city's local theatre community and you'll probably find people to collaborate with.

Making Low Budget "Programs" ?

[jayrtfm]

One of my favorite programs is no longer on the shelves of Comp-USA, and it's left me feeling rather bitter towards the mainstream.
I tend to like programs that run from the command line but I'm in the minority so programs won't be made to pick up that small percentage. However now and again I find great programs on the net. They appear to be homemade and are in some cases very well done. Is it possible to do something like this for several version releases and place it on the net to share? how would someone go about doing something like this? And I know not to quit my day job."

I hope my point has been made. You have a lot of research ahead of you. 20 years ago you would be making S-8 films and be limited to 1950's special effects technology. Fortunatly, today with DV cams and computer editing and efx, the tech end of it isn't the main problem. Now, your main problem in creating a show is dealing with people, unless you're making a silent puppet show. Basically, don't be and don't work with assholes, and supply good food during a shoot.

As for distribution, you'll need to hook up with companies who can afford the bandwith if your show catches on. Which can happen in just a few days. You wouldn't want to be the next Mahir or 401The Movie just to have new viewers get a "bandwith limit exceeded" message when they try to view it..

Of course the next step is ????? then Profit!

Re:copyright?

[moncyb]

That is true, but where did it say he was going to "continue" that show? It sounded more like he wanted to make his own original short movie(s).

Re:low budget

[joshsisk]

Clerks cost around $16,000 to film and it looks not so bad.

The Last Broadcast cost less than that, I think like $1000 and it looks pretty decent. It looks like video, but if you are showing it on Atomfilms or something, that's fine.

So you wanna make a low-budget movie?

[RhetoricalQuestion]

Check out So you wanna make a low-budget movie on SoYouWanna.com.

This is probably a good starting point. You should be able to find some good tips and some additonal references to check out.

Paraphrased

[Strange Ranger]

"I want to reenact "Wayne's World", a al geek style. How do I do it? What programming should I have? Will you guys watch my show?

Well, will ya?

Cheap, even really cheap can be ok

[Murrow]

Here's another article on no-budget film making.

Having been to quite a number of amateur film making festivals at sf cons, I can tell you it doesn't necessarily take money to make an enjoyable movie, but it does take time, patience, and some talent. With nearly identical budgets the films vary substantially. About 33% are unwatchable due to technical issues (sound, lighting, editing), 33% are unwatchable due to artistic issues (acting, story, pacing), and 33% are better than any SCI-FI Channel Original production ever aired. (Don't ask about the final 1%, really!)

401 The Movie

[Andy Dodd]

You have the title wrong - It's 405, not 401.

Just be careful where you host your movie, or it will become 404 - The Movie.

Video equipment

[i_am_nitrogen]

Having dabbled a little bit in amateur clay and live action films myself (never released anything yet though), I have a few suggestions on your camera and software of choice:

MiniDV is a great format if you can't afford anything better.
Adobe Premiere, combined with The Gimp or Film Gimp, and POV-Ray can handle most of your editing and special FX needs.
Use 1394(Firewire) to transfer video! No Analog/Digital/Analog conversion crap allowed!
Expect to spend at least $800 on your camera for a barely-good-enough-for-basic-film-making model.
Make sure your camera has a progressive scan mode; it brings the feel of the video slightly closer to film, and improves computer display quality.
If you can afford it, buy a 3-CCD camera. If you've the money, a 3-CCD camera is a must-have.

Ideally, for amateur no-budget films, you'll want to spend around $3000 on your equipment and software, but that stuff should last you a long time and serve you faithfully.

Oh, don't forget a good boom mic and tripod! Way back in high school (3 years ago ;p) we made a Star Wars parody complete with light sabers and explosions. We had a guy who tracks techno music with Impulse Tracker mix the sound FX (he did a freaking awesome job!), used Premiere 5 for editing, Photoshop 5 for drawing light sabers and effects frame-by-frame, and a good boom mic for the sound. I don't know how much they spent on the mic, but expect to spend a lot; I'm guessing at least $150. Our camera was only $1200, but it had progressive scan, so it really lent a film-like look to the video when it was presented on the 30 foot tall screen at an assembly in the auditorium.

Folding up the tripod and using it to carry your camera around during moving camera scenes can go a long way to making the image a lot more stable, especially if you have jittery hands from drinking too much Mt. Dew.

Thus ends this disjointed rambling.

Re:low budget

[irontiki]

Read Robert Rodriguez's book: Rebel Without a Crew: Or How a 23-Year-Old Filmmaker With $7,000 Became a Hollywood Player

ISBN: 0452271878

He spent a month having medical research done on him while he wrote his script to raise money for the movie. It was beyond no frills but he made a good film.

Re:Well, here goes nothing...

[I Am The Owl]

Oh, I almost forgot. You don't need a progressive scan camera to be able to get that "film look" for your footage. The same thing can be done in software with video filters. As I'm most familiar with Final Cut Pro, I would like to now point you to Joe's Filters, where he provides a "film look" filter along with a ton of other highly useful effects and color correction utilities.

Also, while I'm on the subject of effects, I'd like to touch on a matter of personal taste. Don't use the canned transitions that come with editing programs, like wipes and dissolves. They are cheesy. Instead, go with an immediate cut between clips, a cross-dissolve or a fade out/fade in.

Quake Movies!

[Yarn]

A while back there was a craze for quake demo files as movies, some were great (blahbalicious, operation bayshield).

I was involved with the UK Quake Movie Project, unfortunately it was usurped by a goth with ulterious motives and it became a shoddy lovecraftian nightmare rather than a surreal comedy with cows.

Try Indiana University!

[sysadmn]

Many universities have excellent opportunities to participate in low budget video production. Check your local campus, and keep a raincoat on.

A good book about this

[Savatte]

is Bruce Campbell's autobiography, If Chins Could Kill. Talks about what you need to do before you actually start filming, and the huge amount of work raising the money takes