Slashdot Mirror
Video Streaming Goes Peer-to-Peer
CMU ESM Project writes "Our research group at Carnegie Mellon University has developed a peer to
peer streaming video content distribution system called End System
Multicast (ESM).
The system constructs a self-organizing and adaptive overlay network
using
the receivers that are tuning into the broadcast events. The system has
been
used fairly successfully for
quite a few events. Now we want test the system with a lot of more users
and different user join patterns. We are streaming some very cool
video, such as Triumph of the Nerds by Bob Cringely, distinguished
lecture by Eric Schmidt,
CEO of Google, ACM SIGCOMM conference paper presentation by Dave Clark,
and 2002 Sony Legged Robot Soccer Championship.
Here is the detailed
schedule. So please tune in, enjoy, and help test our system!" The streaming is based on QuickTime; for Linux users, the project page steps through installation of CodeWeaver's CrossOver plug-in.
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Pimp Slappin'?
This is my first post ever!!! *grin*
5P1D3R
We are streaming some very cool video
/. communities attention, I'd suggest you show Ghost in a Shell, RMS vs MS PR lecturer, the Matrix, and The Two Towers.
If you wanna grab the
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
fp
All right! A new way to get more Pr0n!
They're sure not gonna like this.
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
Broadcast audio and video!
Who would have ever thought?
I love technology!
I browse at +5 Flamebait- moderation for all or moderation for none.
Yup yup. This is a reply by the root poster. Transexuals who will rule slashdot will be male to female transexuals. This is the majority group, and as such will rule slashdot.
There will be a lot of things to come in the future regarding slashdot and transexuals. Programs will be written, and spread through the file sharing systems. The programs will help spread the transgendered word.
People will be aware of another world of gender identity, and slashdot will be the root carrier of these messages.
Some people choose to surgically change their sex, others choose not to but live their lives as the xor of their born, genetic sex. Still others feel as if their gender identities switch back and forth from male to female from day to day, week to week or month to month, depending on their mood of the day.
We are a force many do not understand or are willing to understand. We will turn an innocent media icon into a tool of public education if me must.
You must be fearful of us, as will will rise and overcome.
Be patient with us as we only wish to be accepted by the majority population...
Welcome to TransDot
first post... :P
Peer-to-Peer goes Video Streaming!!
they have discovered the mbone
move along, nothing new here
I'd say if slashdot doesn't kill it, nothing will! Except the MPAA.. Evil bastards!
Can all fish swim?
P2P streaming video, eh? We *KNOW* which industry is going to be the frontrunner there. And for some reason, the geeks will all be very generous in the uh, "support" they offer.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
They state that they are using quicktime.. yet there is no support for Mac. ?!
magnanomous.
mplayer also handles Quicktime, though you may have to recompile your kernel.
Well I'm just outa school
Like I'm real real cool
Gotta dance like a fool
Got the message that I gotta be
A wild one
Ooh yeah I'm a wild one
Gotta break it loose
Gonna keep 'em movin' wild
Gonna keep a swingin' baby
I'm a real wild child
Gonna met all muh friends
Gonna have ourself a ball
Gonna tell my friends
Gonna tell them all
That I'm a wild one
Ooh yeah I'm a wild one
Gotta break it loose
Gonna keep 'em movin' wild
Gonna keep a swingin' baby
I'm a real wild child
I'm a real wild one
An' I like a wild fun
In a world gone crazy
Everything seems hazy
I'm a wild one
Ooh yeah I'm a wild one
Gotta break it loose
Gonna keep 'em movin' wild
Gonna keep a swingin' baby
I'm a real wild child
I'm a wild one
I'm a wild one
I'm a wild one
Oh baby
I'm a wild one
Gotta break it loose
Gonna keep 'em movin' wild
Gonna keep a swingin' baby
I'm a real wild child
If anybody still cares about fair use rights, they might want to know that
ELCOMSOFT WON THEIR CASE.
This is important, and I'm sure it's been submitted. WTF?
"We are streaming some very cool video, such as Triumph of the Nerds by Bob Cringely, distinguished lecture by Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, ACM SIGCOMM conference paper presentation by Dave Clark, and 2002 Sony Legged Robot Soccer Championship."
... PORN!
We want
In a shock move, the MPAA closed several University research departments this afternoon, in a series of commando-style raids.
"It's tantamount to theft" said Hilarity Rosen. "People sharing video and film clips like this without paying? It's immoral, unjust and illegal! Luckily, we caught the equivalent of 7,562 illegal viewers. (Well, we caught 17, but they all had VERY fast connections!)
In other news, Microsoft tommorow will announce a new DSigital Rights system for P2P video, called "PayNow!"
Sex change does you!!!
blue falcon networks has been doing this for quite a while.
their technology is already in such distribution systems as Virgin's internet radio broadcast
they do live re-multicast as well as on-demand.
they rock the casbah.
my livejournal is interesting and worth reading - I swear. I know everyone thinks their blog is interesting. mine is.
The prosecution should have known that the case wasn't going to go well for them from the start. When the defense team for a Russian hacker caught at a hacker convention explaining to the crowd of miscreants exactly how to circumvent Adobe Software's proprietary encryption technology for electronic documents entered a plea of "not guilty" for their client, nobody in the courtroom laughed.
For the prosecutors in the criminal hacking case against the Russian software company ElcomSoft and the hacker they employed to develop the encryption-busting app, the deck was stacked against them from the start. After the ElcomSoft anti-encryption app was demonstrated by a Russian employee of the company at the notorious Defcon hacker convention in Las Vegas a year ago, US law enforcement arrested the ElcomSoft employee before he could make it back to Russia. The ElcomSoft app stripped away encryption code used by Adobe Software's "eBook" electronic document file format and therefore circumvented the copy protection of Adobe's proprietary intellectual property. When ElcomSoft's Russian employee demonstrated to a crowd of hackers at a hacker convention exactly how to strip the encryption from Adobe eBook files and redistribute an unlimited number of exact digital copies of any information contained in the files for free-as-in-beer over the Internet, he was in violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) - a law authorized and approved by former President Bill Clinton in 1998.
The ElcomSoft employee, a twentysomething Russian programmer named Dmitry Sklyarov, was arrested by Federal investigators before Sklyarov left US jurisdiction. This meant that Sklyarov was to be the first criminal to be held and eventually prosecuted under the DMCA, the bane of hackers everywhere due to its legal ability to hinder them from digital theft via the Internet. Anti-DMCA activists and leftist lawyers at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) in San Francisco immediately packaged and sold Sklyarov as a Christ-like martyr to hackers the world over. Adobe Software would play the role of the hard-line Pharisees while the US Government would act as the Imperial Romans in this twisted and false Passion play. The EFF and other hacker-friendly organizations put together campaigns to protest the injustice of detaining a poor falsely-accused foreigner who came to Jerusal- I mean, Las Vegas to spread the gospel of hacking to the masses hungering for salvation from imperial oppression.
Aided by journalists that often hate and distrust the motives of any for-profit business (for example, the ElcomSoft encryption breaker app was described by Reuters as a basically harmless little program that "allows users to make copies of electronic books, transfer them to laptops and have the computer read them aloud to the blind" rather than an illegal hacker app), Adobe Software let the negative PR get to them and dropped the charges against Sklyarov soon after his arrest. The Department of Justice continued the case against Sklyarov, his employer ElcomSoft and their public violation of the DMCA at a Vegas hacker convention.
The EFF, in typical San Francisco anti-American fashion, criticized the DOJ's case against Sklyarov and ElcomSoft as being an affront to civil liberties in cyberspace and laughably claiming that because Russia (the former HQ and main exporter of all brutal Marxist-Stalinist Communism for nearly a century) has no laws against copyright violations on the Internet, Russia therefore has more freedoms than the United States. The EFF has always claimed that gentle Russian programmer Sklyarov didn't know his company's software was illegal on oppressive American soil and that tool makers should not be thrown in jail just because a copyright owner doesn't like the tools. The EFF and other hacker defenders criticized Adobe for not doing enough to create better security for eBook making the claim that Sklyarov was jailed because of his showing the world how inferior Adobe's security was (even though ElcomSoft made no attempt to alert Adobe that it had discovered a security weakness in the Acrobat eBook Reader software prior to selling the anti-encryption software for $99 on its website). The defense likened this to Sklyarov writing a how-to make your own printing press book. This is a lie: Sklyarov did not write a book about how to make a printing press; he made the scanning mechanism for a photocopier that only copies books sold by major publishers.
Photocopiers aren't bad, but the photocopiers that only run off copies of the newest book in the Oprah Book Club and then fax them to millions of people gratis won't win the grand prize for innovation at the annual "Photocopier Phoundation" awards dinner (especially if the author is one of the judges). The standard argument from the EFF and the hackers is: "Oh, so you advocate arresting someone that makes lock picks?" No, but it's almost a given that those San Francisco leftists defending the rights of the hacker to make "lock picks" would be very open to the idea of big money class-action suits against handgun manufacturers.
Speaking of San Francisco, I'll go out on a limb and say that a big part of the problem with trying to prosecute Sklyarov/ElcomSoft was the fact that Nevada is part of the Ninth Circuit Court based in the Bay Area. In 2002 CNN noted that particular court is called "the most liberal" by legal scholars. This is a court that contains judges who called the Pledge of Allegiance "unconstitutional." The juries selected to hear the evidence in these California courts thought O.J. was O.K. With that in mind, what possible chance did the prosecution have in getting a conviction in California for a hacker found with hacker programs giving a speech to a group of hackers on how to illegally circumvent copy protection technology?
if you want to grab the public's attention, show porn. I guarantee that porn will be the killer app for this (remember CU-SeeMe).
sulli
RTFJ.
You most certainly do *not* have to recompile your kernel to use QT in mplayer. Just build it, download the codecs .zip, and go
BTW, for debian users, here are the lines to install mplayer (WITH qt6 support):
echo "deb http://marillat.free.fr/ unstable main" >> /etc/apt/sources.list
apt-get update
apt-get install mplayer-686 mencoder-686 qt6codecs w32codecs
Linux users who embrace QuickTime because it can be made to (mostly) work via unauthorized codec clones or using Windows plug-ins will be in for a rude awakening when Jobs and Gates pull the plug on them once QuickTime and Windows Streaming Media achive unstoppable market share.
.
> Step 1: Install QuickTime player version 5 or 6 for Windows
Ummm, NO.
No I will not install that heavy-gloss and pointy-haired marketing-droid built **configuration-siezing** piece of sh*t on any system I control.
Call back later when you use an open streaming video format that doesn't ask me to bend over.
.
Can anyone fill me in on how or if this differs from the BitTorrent concept?
http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The last thing Slashdot needs is for moderators to moderate a comment based on the content. It should be a popularity contest whereby the kids who troll behind the PE building are excluded from participation by the smirking, goody-two-shoes jocks and cheerleaders.
No self-respecting geek believes any other person to be geeky enough to be considered their "peer."
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
Watching it now. Pretty cool, and pretty effective - but the video seems a little bit too bright.
Schnapple
But I didn't build mplayer from source either, I just installed the RPM.
Sounds interesting but I'm not going to install the Crossover plugin just to see it. Is it possible to view this with Mplayer now that it has full support for QuickTime?
:)
P2P Radio seems to be working really well and I'm sure it's the same for video too. The RIAA is going to have a few headaches over these too... first they had unstoppable file-sharing and now they'll have same for live video streams and radio.
Sorry to burst your bubble, dipshit.
Cross-platform friendly!
Yeah, I'm a little peeved at that too. I'm a geek and I don't get to enjoy this project because for some reason they've neglected the NATIVE PLATFORM for the streaming product they're using.
However, there IS a note stating that they are "explorting porting to the MacOS" I think they meant "exploring", and even if they do explore it, are they talking about Mac OS 9 or OSX?
I want to play :(
Gabriel Ricard
I'd be hard-pressed to call what they were streaming "cool". If they wanted cool, they should have been streaming video out cams hidden in the ventilation registers of good-looking coed's dorm rooms. Oh wait, I forgot, they're at Carnegie Mellon.
Which reminds me of an old, old joke: Nine out of ten girls in California are good-looking. The other one goes to Stanford.
I spent a lot of money making them, I hope you at least enjoy them now that they're going to be free.
Check out their overlay tree here. It shows how the current peer-to-peer tree of everyone viewing anything at that given point in time. Pretty cool.
... what's to prevent some enterprising soul to retransmit this interesting video rather than the original content to his downstream clients...
Um, if I wanted to watch video on a schedule, I'd watch TV.
If they were using H.263 or MPEG-4, you should be able to use a variety of players instead of needing the Crossover hack.
i am sad that Peer-to-Peer goes Video Streaming :*( !!
Hi all, I work on the project and have been tasked with answering the slashdot communities questions. 1. Bright video: yes the video is too bright just has to do with the video capture we did of this particular video. Other videos look better, check the schedule. 2. Why codeweavers? Mplayer plays Sorenson 1 natively and Sorenson 3 using a binary codec, we can broadcast either. Unforutunately, Mplayer's RTP code doesn't support Sorenson 1/3 streams yet. When looking at the code, I couldn't tell if live.com streaming library didn't support it yet or, more likely, the interface between mplayer and live.com streaming library doesn't support Sorenson 1/3. 3. I'll answer more of how the system works and how its different then bittorrent and other system in a few minutes it's going to take while to type out. In the mean time check out some of our documents. http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~ESM-streaming/docs/ESM_Ph aseII.1.pdf
is a bried overview.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/cmcl-yhchu/ www.overlays/
has some of our earlier papers
Chris Palow
palow@cmu.edu
Flamebait...dude, I really can't feel bad for one of those fools who makes more in 6 months than I, or you, will ever make. If J. Lo can act like a fool and make millions, well goddamn, I can download a few songs. In conclusion, I'd like to start with the end..In Soviet Russia people get set on fire for posts like these!
Non Sequitur \Non seq"ui*tur\ [L., it does not follow]
n 1: a reply that has no relevance to what preceded it
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Who?
Does the parent post or does the parent post NOT have interesting, factual content? If not, mod that way. If so, downmods are terrorism. It's that simple.
i am sad that sex change does you :*( !!!
Now we want test the system with a lot of more users and different user join patterns.
:)
Is this the first case of someone actually ASKING to be Slashdotted? I can't think of a better stress test...
Well, certainly the best method to stress-test any system is to post about it on Slashdot! Good job, Carnegie Mellon!
topreacher@signature.slashdot.org 1% rm -rf sig
i am sad that the geeks will all be very generous in the uh, "support" they offer :*(.
this is patent infridgement, see
= PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5253275.WKU.&OS=PN/5253275&RS=PN/ 5253275
= PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5550863.WKU.&OS=PN/5550863&RS=PN/ 5550863
= PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6002720.WKU.&OS=PN/6002720&RS=PN/ 6002720
= PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6144702.WKU.&OS=PN/6144702&RS=PN/ 6144702
= PT O1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm &r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5132992.WKU.&OS=PN/5132992&RS=PN/ 5132992
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1
take a look at the last one (5,132,992), its "interesting"
The video is way too bright. Fiddling with the Quicktime video settings doesn't help much.
i am sad that they state that they are using quicktime.. yet there is no support for Mac :*( . ?!
Every couple of minutes the screen blanks out with a message saying things like "Please send 24.95 for the full version to support starving programmers" for crossover.
How annoying... they should've mentioned this.
come on fhqwhgads
I liked this more when it was called Multicast.
Isn't peer to peer multicast kind of an oxymoron.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
They finally have proof that TOC with Windows is lower than with Linux :)
you've tested it with pr0n.
I have NEVER seen a stable installation of quicktime and I'll be damned if I install it on my new machine.
It's a damn shame too because I've been waiting for this idea to materialize for a while. Maybe the next bunch of folks who take a stab at it won't fuck it up.
pfft. qucktime. what a fucking waste.
Do you support other media players, such as Real or Windows Media?
QuickTime uses the standardized Real-Time Transport Protocol Suite (RTP/RTCP), which Real and Windows Media use proprietary protocols. It is unlikely that we will support Real or Windows Media in the near future.
Click here to view the Slashdot effect in action.
If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
How is this different from video teleconferencing software like CU-SeeMe, which has been around for about 8 years now?
If you move the window slightly, the splash-beg moves to behind it. Still annoying, but manageable.
come on fhqwhgads
You've never used a Mac, have you?
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
peercast does the same kind of deal with audio. www.peercast.org. I heard talks about it working with vidio also. There is a linux version.
Three college chicks gathered for a drink.
two good looking and one math major,
two smart and one arts major,
two girls and one phys.ed. major.
http://openarch.cmcl.cs.cmu.edu/images/Join.9811.j peg /. won't let you post an immage but you can still see it
Step 1. Release story on highly visited website that will cause geeks to download before even realizing the trojan horse they have installed.
Step 2. Get geeks to keep player on by telling them they will help the greater good of p2p video streaming.
Step 3. When over 20,000 active nodes are on system begin largest DoS attack ever on MPAA and RIAA that will strike fear into the masses.
Step 4. Profit^H^H^H^H^H^H Post story on slashdot about how slashdot users defeated the evil of the internet without even knowing it.
It may seem highly unlikely, but shouldn't these freekin college kids be studying for finals??? Anyone else think this is an "odd" type of program??
I could be wrong and I probably am, but it's a hypothetical that could be very true ...
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Does anyone know what bandwidth is like for this. The transfer rate is 300Kbps, max, but what if I serve 10 others with it? Is that how it works?
thanks for help --- my univesity limits sustained bandwidth to 2MB/s, or I get kicked out.
cha-cha-chears!
...Let users make their own stations, then it would take off...
I enjoyed watching the little dog robots.
The basics, Covad DSL, Windows, located in Chicago. The install went smooth. Both the ems client and quick time started when I clicked on the link. I did get the "download or open box". I choose open from current location.
The picture was somewhat choppy and the audio would cut out from time to time. As far as I could tell the ems client was receiving only. Maybe nobody likes me. Sniff.
good god, i hope quicktime isn't their main selling point. ok,ok, actually i used one in high school and was impressed. but then again, it was the first gui i'd ever used so i had no choice to be impressed (comming from the c=64). regardless, quicktime on ibm sucks according to my previous experience. unfortunately, i have new experience as the temptation from the CMU project was too much and I dl'ed QT anyway. no crashes thus far, but you won't catch me holding my breath.
I have seen that Digitally Imported has a audio P2P option from allcast.
I am not using it personally as I am listening to the shoutcast streams on my Audiotron, so I don't know if it's worth anything, but the idea is nice.
my sig
I'm an ISP, I'll say that up front. The Internet was designed for bursty traffic like webpage downloads, email and chat. This meant that most the time people were *not* transfering data. ISP flat-rate pricing schedules relied on that fact - it let them oversell their bandwidth. The upside of this practice was that customers received fast connections at low prices. The ratio was something like 30 customers with 1 Mbit connections only required 1 Mbit bandwidth to the Internet on average. If you had, say, 1000+ customers this ratio method worked very nicely.
:), the RIAA, MPAA and such will not put an end to p2p. Economics will.
Things are changing with p2p as many customers connections are transfering data continously. Add p2p streaming and the situation becomes even less *Internet-like*. So what is the solution?
Paying by the MB is not unknown by any means. People with large websites pay by the MB of transfered data to their customers and always have. Is it time for all customers that want to run the server portion of their p2p programs to do the same? Or should ISP's block p2p to bring the economics back to reality?
There is another alternative. Everquest caused many ISP customers to hang on their dial-up phone lines 24 hours per day. Now, a phone line costs $30 per month just to the telco, another $10 in equipment and cooling costs, plus Internet bandwidth, support people and so on. So for $20 they were using $50-60 worth of resources each month. As a result, many ISP's started cancelling the accounts of Everquest players and they made a lot of money doing it. P2p users are only about 5% of an ISP's customers, so axing them would not be a big deal - in fact the ISP will be laughing all the way to the bank.
Virual ISP's are actually encouraged to ax people haning on phone lines. Some portal providers will lower the rates of ISPs who ax these customers - and the discounts for doing so are very generous.
If I must make a prediction (and musn't I
Knowing how to install an OS and apps would go a long way toward solving your QuickTime problems. Of all of the media players on the market, QuickTime is the one that's caused me the least grief. I currently run it on Win2K, and I've used it under different flavors of Win9x. (I also have a Quadra 610 with MacOS 7.5.3, but I've never tried to track down an older version of QuickTime to install on it. I'm not sure how useful it'd be on such a slow machine.)
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Use Slashdot - talk about a great way to get a bunch of geeks testing your software real quick. :)
Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I.
... that american geeks will now start to stream all the new TV shows, and the rest of the world will be looking over their shoulders? (While the industry starts screaming in fury?)
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
It's called MBONE BONEHEADS... This is a greatly improved effort to make it easier and more portable. It's still the same concept.
Step 5 is missing. There's no step 5. There's no Step 5!!!!
The content is quite good, I watched the Cringley Series (saw them a while back, but still entertaining). The talk by Google's CEO is also very interesting. So kudos on the content selection.
While I'm not a fan of Quicktime, the quality was berable and could be increased if you get some video people to do proper capturing, resizing, encoding etc. I and others would be more likely to use the p2p broadcasting if it featured.. say VP3 (supported through windows media player). But kudos for working on the video broadcast bandwidth problem, I look forward to seeing future revisions.
- Tomcat borism.net
you pause play rewind...Time Warner is rolling the tech out in all markets. It works like a VCR...I'm tired of people making a big deal about it I'm going to write up a paper on it and submit it for a main story, for something so geeky, and appealing to lots of people on the user end, I'm supprised not more people here know that.
LinuxWorx
Spelling errors are intentional as are gramatical error
That's where my P2P video experience ended.
... NEXT!
Oh well
Is this really free, or are developers screwed already?
Peercast Bluefalcon Chaincast Allcast Vtrails Streamer ...yawn...
One of the things I *hate* about streaming video sites is that they categorize things qualitatively instead of quantitatively. "Modem 28.8k", "Modem 56.6k," "ISDN", "Cable Modem/DSL" (aka Broadband), and "T1 or higher" are NOT good ways of calculating connection speed. Give us NUMBERS.
This connection is for people capable of receiving 28.8Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 56.6Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 256Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 512Kbps. This connection is for people capable of receiving 1Mbit. This connection is capable of receiving 2Mbps. This connection is capable of receiving 4Mbps, etc. You can get a 256Kbps DSL line, or you can get an 8Mbit DSL line. LOOOOTS of difference between the two, but still the same technology that would show up as "Cable Modem/DSL".
[insert witty comment here]
Ooh, mommy, mommy, what I have now doesn't work in this extremely
unlikely circumstance, so I'll just throw it away and write something
completely new.
-- Linus Torvalds
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