Nature's Timepiece Identified

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Nature's Timepiece Identified

Posted by timothy on Monday January 6, 2003 @03:37PM from the and-1-and-2-and-3-and-again dept.

Makarand writes "Nature's timepiece, a two-sided cylindrical protein that tells cells when to grow and when to rest, has been identified according to these reports on MSNBC and on Purdue News. The protein directs 12-minute growth and rest cycles in living cells. Scientists at Purdue were able to confirm its function by first identifying the gene that produces this protein and then altering the protein to produce cycles of between 22 and 42 minutes. This discovery promises new insight into cellular activity such as cholesterol synthesis, respiration, heart rhythms, response to drugs, sleep and alertness. We may be able to improve our of methods of minimzing jet-lag and correcting sleep disorders."

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Re:12 hours in a day? by burns210 · 2003-01-06 15:51 · Score: 1

12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, and 4?
and 6 and 12...
also 12 months in a year and 30 12's in 360(360 degrees in a circle), (roughly 360 days in a year,darn leap year).
Just coincidence?
yeah, pretty much. :)
Prediction: by sporktoast · 2003-01-06 15:55 · Score: 2, Funny

There will follow lots of posts with jokes about overclocking.
Some may actually be funny.

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so if i stop the protein by Unknown+Poltroon · 2003-01-06 16:31 · Score: 2

do i live forever or die instantly? And what if i have some kind of mutation that affects production of this protein? DOes that explain Lazarus Long? ;)

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1. Re:so if i stop the protein by Simon+Field · 2003-01-06 19:15 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Of course it isn't that simple. Stopping it would probably be similar to stopping another clock in you, such as your heart or your breathing.
  What interested me was the comment about crystallizing it (to get X-ray crystallography). This might be one of those cases where the crystal form is not as useful as something like attosecond laser freeze-frames. We want to see this thing in action. I suppose one could crystallize it in each of its forms, and then guess which one did what.
  
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I'm not a genius by PD · 2003-01-06 16:32 · Score: 1

A genius is someone who can see something great when almost nobody else can.

I think it's quite obvious that this is going to be one of the most significant discoveries this year, possibly even more important than that. Any idiot can see that, and I just want to be the 87th person to point it out.

--
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Timer by Shishio · 2003-01-06 16:36 · Score: 1

I've heard of people being able to set internal alarm clocks, in a manner of speaking. Could these internal timekeepers be manipulated so that we sense them? What I'm trying to get at is, could these internal clocks be more like internal wristwatches?

There's so many clocks in my room that it seems there should be some interest in being able to incorporate a timepiece into a human body. Maybe the "flipping over" of this protein can be sensed, and that sense adjusted to, with a little help from biotech.

Well, I can hope anyway. I'm sick of dishing out cash for watches. :)

--
Twelve fingers or one, its how you play. ~Gattaca (Vincent)
1. Re:Timer by pauldy · 2003-01-06 17:00 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  If I remember right these proteins are released in intervals and build up when they hit a level a reset condition occurs were the proteins are re-assimilated. In theory one could create conditions were these proteins are released faster or slower to regain clock sync.
  
  I'm confused and maybe someone can clarify why this particular article seems to be so behind in this new technology as they already have shows on the discovery channel that explain this to the point a ten year old can understand the goings on? Or is it simply the fact they understand how to control the timekeeping piece of it?
2. Re:Timer by G.+W.+Bush+Junior · 2003-01-07 07:44 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't seen the discovery channel show, but my guess that it isn't the same thing. What you're describing sounds like a relaxation oscillator (they are well known in chemistry and biochemistry)... the "Biochemistry" paper, points out, that they show that the timekeeping is NOT a gene network oscillator. So they've disproved the theory presented on the discovery channel (if they're right... which I'm not completely convinced of yet). They think it's all down to this single enzyme, that oscillates due to some really funky properties (being able to catalyze two completely different reactions depending on the state) if I understand the paper right, and interpret your description of the show corrrectly :)
  
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  "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." -George H.W. Bush
Caffeine is now obsolete by Anonymous Coward · 2003-01-06 16:38 · Score: 3, Insightful

We may be able to improve our of methods of minimzing jet-lag and correcting sleep disorders.
Why not correct this disorder known as "sleep"?

Sleep is for the weak. And the genetically un-modified.
Where are mad scientists when you need them... by Orne · 2003-01-06 17:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long... ...and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy." -- Dr. Tyrell, Blade Runner
1. Re:Where are mad scientists when you need them... by iggymanz · 2003-01-07 14:16 · Score: 2
  
  There's actually more to that......."The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long....and you have burned so very, very brightly, Roy.......aaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAH" *crunch* *slop* (brains slopping out ears and eye sockets as Roy crushes Tyrell's skull)
  
  Yay Blade Runner, the greatest sci-fi movie EVER made!!!!
Re:12 hours in a day? by Bonker · 2003-01-06 17:06 · Score: 2

It's cause Greeks and Romans did some numbers in base 12. Also the reason we have 360 degrees in a circle despite the fact that radians make much more sense is because greek

365 days a year is just a lucky coincidence.

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I'm missing something by aztektum · 2003-01-06 17:32 · Score: 4, Interesting

I don't want to sound like I'm trying to pick o a fight, but who cares about fixing jet lag? Isn't this a more about helping sick people get better? I didn't realize jet lag was such a detriment to society.

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1. Re:I'm missing something by Fyz · 2003-01-06 19:30 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  To hell with the sick! I want to know if this can make me immortal!
2. Re:I'm missing something by mph · 2003-01-07 06:14 · Score: 2
  
  I didn't realize jet lag was such a detriment to society.
  Then you need to travel more, or work a rotating schedule.
Unavailable for comment at the time by Hubert_Shrump · 2003-01-06 18:39 · Score: 4, Funny

were Nature's wallet, suspenders, and sock garters.

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Help me stay awake... by c0d34w4y · 2003-01-06 19:49 · Score: 2, Funny

Could this help me (one day, maybe?) stay away for much longer each day? Presently, I max out at 18 hours a day without sleep. This much time is enough to churn out only so much of code.. but think of the implications if I and numerous others who find joy in churning out free code could code for a bit longer within a span of 24 hours?

And all this with little side-effect to other bodily functions... ;-)
1. Re:Help me stay awake... by c0d34w4y · 2003-01-07 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  Heh... I do 18 hours at times, but not aways though ;-). I agree it would be a major killer if I managed 18 hours more often lol.
  
  My full time job involves a lot of Java development. But when I come home I try to do some Perl or C++. Being involved in the Perl community, I try to keep up certain projects of mine not to lag behind.
Re:12 hours in a day? by BCoates · 2003-01-06 20:17 · Score: 4, Funny

Also the reason we have 360 degrees in a circle despite the fact that radians make much more sense is because greek

"Drive 3 blocks north, then take the one-quarter pi radian turn right, and go another block."

Yeah, that's a real useful unit.

--
Benjamin Coates
Re:12 hours in a day? by red5 · 2003-01-06 22:20 · Score: 4, Interesting

Well there are closer to 13 28 day months(moons) in a year. 13 x 24 = 364.

But then 13 is an unlucky number.

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Go! go! go! (pills) go! go! by notany · 2003-01-06 22:37 · Score: 2, Informative

Indeed, the U.S. Department of Defense has offered research funding for the goal of sustaining a fully wake, fully functional 24/7 soldier, sailor, or airman. -- Professor J. Christian Gillin,

I guess next time I operate my F-16 I can't get so
high anymore.

--
Dyslexics have more fnu.
Re:12 hours in a day? by Alsee · 2003-01-06 22:45 · Score: 2

the one-quarter pi radian turn right

Ahh, you must live in one of those neighborhoods with funky corners. Most of the corners around here are one-half pi radians.

-

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Reference to the paper by mlush · 2003-01-06 23:25 · Score: 5, Informative

The links given don't actually supply the reference to the paper. Its in Biochemistry
Biochemical Basis for the Biological Clock Morre, D. J.; Chueh, P.-J.; Pletcher, J.; Tang, X.; Wu, L.-Y.; Morre, D. M.; Biochemistry ; (Accelerated Article); 2002; 41(40); 11941-11945.
Re:12 hours in a day? by mohaine · 2003-01-07 01:27 · Score: 1

Agreeed. Somebody pulled 360 out of their ass. It always makes me laugh when people start referencing 360 as a basic unit of nature.

Circles would work much better with 400 degrees.

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something isn't adding up... by G.+W.+Bush+Junior · 2003-01-07 04:04 · Score: 2, Informative

ok, so this is really groundbreaking news...
I mean, Explaining the circadian rythm has been a priority for decades.
It has an enormous impact on the pharmaceutical industry, it's extremely important for biochemists, chemists, theoretical chemist and non-linear dynamics people...
And the importance is REALLY obvious.

my question is this: Why do they publish it in Biochemistry?!?!

This is Nature or Science material... if it's true.

Something is obviously wrong with their argumentation, but I haven't figured out what's wrong yet... anybody?

They DEFINITELY need more sampling points... but I guess there's more to it than that.

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1. Re:something isn't adding up... by Sgt+York · 2003-01-07 07:42 · Score: 1
  
  Just got a chance to read the paper. Interesting stuff, but preliminary. They show that the protein maintains a rythmic shift in activity that is independent of outside factors. However, if they change the amino acid sequence of the protein, they can alter the period of the activity switches.
  They correlated this acitivty (NADPH-Ox) with a second acitivity (GAPDH) that is known to be regulated by some circaidian means. They did two mutations. Both affected the rythm of their protein. One mutation affected the GAPDH activity, but only one one period (They didn't mention the other one; probably had no effect; the assay is a smiple one). GAPDH activity follows two periods, a major and a minor one. This protein seems to affect the minor period. This does have an overall effect on the GAPDH activity in the cell, but probably by only affecting one period. There is something else controlling the second period
  So, this is a clock, but not the clock. There seem to be at least two, probably more. The reason this didn't get Science or Nature is because it's still early work; they need a bit more data to get a tier one journal. Besides, Biochemistry ain't chopped liver. It's a nice journal to get into.
  For the biochemists out there, I do mean GAPDH activity, not GAPDH levels. Glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase activity is what is measured as the circadian effect endpoint. NADPH oxidase acitivity is the monitored activity of the enzyme of interest.
  
  --
  
  There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
2. Re:something isn't adding up... by G.+W.+Bush+Junior · 2003-01-07 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  I've worked with glycolytic oscillations...
  and studying this network, I've learned that you can affect frequency and amplitude by adjusting a WHOLE range of enzyme activities...
  
  having changed one enzyme activity only, you might feel tempted to jump to the conclusion that this enzyme controls the oscillation... having adjusted several you'll realise that oscillations are a network property.
  
  How is this paper able to conclude that NADPH-Ox is the pacemaker, and not simply a small part of a n oscillating network?
  that's the part I'm not sure is watertight.
  
  what does "the rythm of the proteine" mean anyway?
  
  and you're right, the Biochemistry is a fine journal... but it's read by a biochemists, and the discovery deserves attention from a whole range of diiferent fields of research.
  
  is it really that trivial to republish old news in a journal like science or nature?
  
  --
  "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." -George H.W. Bush
3. Re:something isn't adding up... by Sgt+York · 2003-01-07 11:52 · Score: 1
  
  I agree.
  There are obviously other things that affect GAPDH activity, and it's periodicity. Their conclusion seems logical; there are transcription factors that are governed by the oxidation state of NAD(H) and NADP(H) referenced in the paper, and there are elements for these factors in the GAPDH promoter (again, according to the paper). By altering the period of the activity of NADPH-Ox, they have altered the balance of NADPH/NADP in a time-dependent manner. As a result, the activity of the transcription factors mentioned could affect the transcription of GAPDH.
  In specific answer to your question, they don't conclude that it is the pacemaker, they conclude it is a part of an oscillating network (of coursem they don't say a small part....) what does "the rythm of the proteine" mean anyway?
  A truncation on my part; meant to say "the rythm of the protein's activity"; i.e., the period of the activity switch. (There was once a program out there that would take a protein's primary sequence and translate it into MIDI. So maybe that's what I REALLY meant....)
  I also agree that is deserves a bit higher position based on the conclusions. It's just that their experimentaion was a bit light. It's not even a 3.5 page paper, including references. They only really did two models (NADPH activity in 3 variants and GAPDH activity in two variants). IMHO, in order to get Science, they need to go a bit more in-depth.
  
  --
  
  There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
Re:12 hours in a day? by dunedan · 2003-01-07 04:37 · Score: 1

"Drive 3 blocks north, then take the one-quarter pi radian turn right, and go another block."

You must live in a strange nieghborhood to tell people "Drive 3 blocks north then take the 90 degree turn right" yourself.
But I thought.... by watzinaneihm · 2003-01-07 05:19 · Score: 2, Funny

From the article Heavy water - water made of two atoms of deuterium, the isotope of hydrogen with an extra neutron in its nucleus - could alter the clock to run on a 27-hour day.

Heavy drinking causes sleepiness.... So

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Of course... by Wireless+Joe · 2003-01-07 05:47 · Score: 2, Funny

"Nature's timepiece, a two-sided cylindrical protein...

I thought about how a cylinder could have two sides for a second, and realized that of course it's two sided...it has an inside and an outside.

Ba-dum-bum.
1. Re:Of course... by loners · 2003-01-07 12:24 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe it's your timing?
2. Re:Of course... by Wireless+Joe · 2003-01-08 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  Nah,it just wasn't funny. Ah well. So much for my stand-up career.
Re:12 hours in a day? by jguevin · 2003-01-07 06:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

Actually, isn't 360 more useful than 400? Not that I know anything about the origin of "360 degrees", but:

360/2 = 180
360/3 = 120
360/4 = 90
360/5 = 72
360/6 = 60
360/8 = 45
360/9 = 40

whereas

400/3 = 133.3...
400/6 = 66.6...
400/9 = 44.4...

Of course, it may be the case that you have a sense of humor and I don't.

I also can't help thinking that using 360 has greatly improved the math skills of skater & snowboarder dudes the world over.
Just imagine.... by Sgt+York · 2003-01-07 08:11 · Score: 1

Imagine that on a CMV promoter....
Molecular Biology's version of the Beowulf cluster. Just had to say it.

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There is a reason for everything. Sometimes that reason just sucks.
New Medicine by Strange+Ranger · 2003-01-07 09:55 · Score: 2

So now can I get a pill that will keep me from being late all the time?

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1. Re:New Medicine by dexter+riley · 2003-01-08 19:58 · Score: 1
  
  Only if you're a woman.
Re:two sided cylindrical? by Trick · 2003-01-07 19:34 · Score: 2

All cylinders are 2-sided. Get a piece of paper and make one; you'll see.
Re:12 hours in a day? by chamenos · 2003-01-07 22:54 · Score: 1

mod parent up! i didn't see that till he/she mentioned it.
Re:12 hours in a day? by varjag · 2003-01-08 23:27 · Score: 1

Also the reason we have 360 degrees in a circle despite the fact that radians make much more sense is because greek

Actually, the 360 degree system was innovated by Sumerian astronomers long before Greeks and Romans got any culture to talk of.

365 days a year is just a lucky coincidence.

No, it is not.

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