TurboTax Activation Fiasco

kurtinatlanta writes "Though the news broke in September, no one cares about tax return preparation software until January. Apparently Intuit's activation scheme for TurboTax will only allow you to print or file your returns from the computer on which you first installed it. The phrase "one computer" in their license literally means one computer. Moving the software (i.e. disk reformat, buy new computer) requires buying it again. There are all kinds of negative reviews on amazon.com as a result. Is this problem real or overhyped?" There's a more recent story about the flap. The Intuit PR rep is quoted as saying that people can install the software on multiple computers using the same activation code, but I don't think an unworking installation really counts.

Comments

My take

[Em Emalb]

"Is this problem real or overhyped?"

It's real. If I buy something, I damned well better be able to use it/reinstall it if my computer blows up.

Think about it.

Re:My take

[stinky wizzleteats]

I don't know. TurboTax is only good for one tax year, so the useage lifetime for the software is as long as it takes me to actually do my taxes, which is only a couple of days, if that. Not a very big window of opportunity for total system failure , IMHO. It's not like they're keying the O/S to your hardware via the Internet or anything.

Re:My take

[patbob]

If I buy something, I damned well better be able to use it/reinstall it if my computer blows up.

Mark me paranoid, but the info is my tax info. The program is as much a part of the archival data as the .tax file and the paper copies. If there's any question about how I came up with the answers on the paper form, I darn well better be able to install it on another computer so I can access the data and algorithms that went into the conclusion.

Guess my complaint to them last September went unheeded. :-)

Re:My take

[evilpenguin]

This ability to transfer ownership of a DVD, book, CD, or VHS tape is because of the "principle of first sale." This is not a legal right, however, and only exists because it has been technologically impossible to prevent up to now, and because IP vendors were content with the revenue from the first sale.

The technology of perfect IP control is, however, either here now (in the case of software) or on the way (in the case of DVDs, CDs, and movies). It WILL be technologically possible to prevent recording, copying, or subsequent use. If you think you should be able to transfer without copying, then you had better get a bit more politically active. Consider joining/supporting the Electronic Frontier Foundation and write your congressional deleagation in opposition to the DMCA (which is already law) and several other proposed but not-yet-passed pieces of legislation designed to control even your presently legal use of your purchases.

Copyright infringement is, and should be illegal, but the principle of first sale, the right to archive, fair use, and the other consumer "rights" that came only from imprefect control technologies are in grave danger. If you think these should be rights of yours, by thunder, say so!

Re:My take

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

Where is the principle of first sale then? It is NOT present. I was never saying the law didn't mention first sale, nor that fair use isn't mentioned in the law.

This of course is the evil genuis nature of the DMCA. As has been claimed, you have certain rights ... but you don't have the right to exercise those rights.

This is my scheme for copy protection: Either a product is released "in plaintext" -- that is, with no access control mechanisms -- and the copyright holder is allowed to pursue infringers through the power of the courts. Or a piece is released with technological protections in place -- but then the producer has no right to redress under the court system.

In other words, don't muck with First Sale or Fair Use -- or you're on your own. If your encryption/protection works, more power to you. But if some kiddie cracks your access control mechanism, then too bad... you have no right to sue.

I don't think there's a snowball's chance in a supernova of such a law passing, but I think it would be fair.

Pencil

[Borf]

Then there's always an alternate use for your hand... that's right! Doing taxes manually. On paper. Think of doing taxes as learning a braindead API for interfacing with the goverment.

I rather like it.

Smell of cedar and graphite. A little calculator, a big rule book. Lots of nice little numbers.

Possible Solution?

[saider]

Here's what I do for nazi software - Run it in a VMWare virtual machine. As far as the program is concerned it is running on the same computer.

The only trick is you need to have VMWare ($300).

So What? Audits, that's what.

[asscroft]

I usually print and file from the same machine at which I installed anyway. This only has two impacts

1. You can no longer get the friends and family pack, so what, it's $20.00 and is super easy way to do your taxes. How many accountants charge $20.00 for you, and your friends, and your parents. Give it up, the free ride is over.

2. Audits from the IRS go back 7 years. If I have a new computer in 7 years I won't be able to reprint this years return. So much for the "store my tax info on CD". I'm stuck with Paper as my only record keeping. That removes one of the benefits of using a computer program in the first place.

go with taxcut

[mlong]

I've used TurboTax I guess for the last 4 or 5 years. This year as I was getting ready to buy it I checked out amazon.com and saw all the negative reviews and decided not get it as I have 4 computers in my house. So I decided to get TaxCut. I bought it from Staples but you can get it from taxcut.com. It costs less than TurboTax and it can even import all the data from last year's TurboTax. Not only that but (at least at staples.com) there are tons of rebates on different products if you buy TurboTax ($30 off money, willpower free, home and business attorney free, mcafee free, norton personal firewall or antivirus free, checksoft express free, deduction pro free, etc.

Re:Use TaxAct.com

[tibbetts]

Or, pay an actual human being to do your taxes. I've never done it but I understand they know all about the loopholes and stuff.

Amen to that! My wife and her family haven't filled out their own tax forms for many years. I used to laugh at their willingness to throw away Good Money, but after we got married and bought a house, I decided to do a bake-off between using TurboTax myself vs. their long-time wetware tax preparer. The result? TurboTax cost me $70 ($30 fed. + $20/each for two states), took about three hours to go through (and another couple of hours or so to print and proofread) and I got a refund of $x. The tax preparer cost $120, took 40 minutes, and got us a refund of $x + $400 via legit "loopholes" (things like moving costs, higher ed credits, etc.).

If you need to fill out only a 1040EZ form, you definitely don't need TurboTax or a preparer, but if you have dependents or itemize deductions, I highly recommend going to a live person. (And no, IANATP.)

Stupid question here.

[Matey-O]

Why is this even an issue?

If the IRS gets all of this information, (and it does , it's used to doublecheck your return) why do we even HAVE the other half of this industry?

IMHO, you ought be able to log into the IRS website, it should say 'We have this and this and this in your records, you should owe X'

At which point _you_ could add: "But I have this and this extenuating circumstance."

The IRS would then recalculate and your income tax fileing would consist of ONLY those things that are different and unusual, with the assumption that since you didn't change any earnings info, you must agree with what the IRS has.

If my HR dude enters my W-2 info once. And his software sends it to the IRS, why do _I_ have to rekey it each time? Why do I need to rekey the numbers AT ALL?

But if you're audited ...

[Bowfinger]

I don't know. TurboTax is only good for one tax year, so the useage lifetime for the software is as long as it takes me to actually do my taxes, which is only a couple of days, if that.

But what if you get that audit letter from the IRS in two or three years? You may want to reinstall 2002 TurboTax so you can review your records, only to find that it won't work on your most recent PC.

What if you simply need to file an amended return later this year? What if you lost your paper copy of your return and want to print another? What if you have trouble exporting your 2002 data to 2003 TurboTax, or maybe to a competing product without such an obnoxious copy protection mechanism?

There are lots of scenarios where you might need to use this software long after your initial filing. It's too bad Intuit is adopting the same kind of customer-hostile philosophy pioneered by our beloved MPAA & RIAA.

Re:Read the submission!

[MeNeXT]

So according to you I can install MS Office on Linux, I just can't run it? Please! as far as I care, if it does not work as advertised it is not installed....

Re:What I'd like to see

[Just Some Guy]

The only problem is that the software, necessarily, will not be creative when dealing with your unique tax situation. That's what a good CPA is for: knowing things such as if you're willing to forget about claiming a deduction for that $20 donation to the EFF, then you qualify for a $137.23 tax credit under the Diggle Act of 1965. A program will cheerfully let you claim a $20 deduction at the cost of missing a greater savings elsewhere.

Is it utterly ridiculous that our tax code is so difficult? Absolutely! However, we're pretty much stuck with it for the foreseeable future, so you may as well make the best of it.

Perfect opportunity for Linux ...

[HealYourChurchWebSit]

If I were H&Rj, I'd get a Linux version of TaxCut out the door ASAP. Think about it. Many of us who are going to change are the same types who are/want to switch to Open Office and Linux because of similar tactics employed by Microsoft and ther XP O/S. It seem to me that there would be a very willing market that would be very difficult for TurboTax to pursue unless it drops it's own activation schems.

Unbeliveable!

[Thud457]

The fact that the average citizen needs to hire a guru or buy some fancy software every year in order to determine their responsibility to society is a TRAVESTY.

Let the corps have their 8,000 page tax code, with their carefully lobbied for loopholes -- they can afford to hire professional accountants. And lobbiests. And lawyers.

Simplfy the tax code for normal, flesh-and-blood, breathing, REAL PERSONS.

Re:The US tax code could be fixed...

[DmitriA]

No, that's because social security and medicare aren't really taxes - they are government-run insurance programs (that government, at gunpoint, forces you to enroll in, regardless of whether you want it or not). You pay in a premium and you get some benefits when you retire (hopefully if they don't go broke by then) and need some money to cover medical expenses.

Now, since these programs are already going broke, reducing the premiums paid by everyone and, thus, the money paid into the system is a stupid idea - unless want you really want is to close these programs altogether and give people a choice about what they want to do (which is a good idea, but probably very unpopular among most voters - especially those seniors that vote by the truckloads)