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MandrakeSoft Files for Bankruptcy Protection
An anonymous reader writes "It's official: MandrakeSoft has filed a 'declaration de cessation des paiements' - the French equivalent of a U.S. Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing. From a statement issued by the company: 'This reorganization of liabilities enables MandrakeSoft to continue its current operations, which are showing increases in revenue and significant decreases in expenses. MandrakeSoft's strategic partners are supporting the company in this process and the MandrakeSoft team is focused on continuing to deliver high quality services and products to its customers.' Best wishes to MandrakeSoft as they work through this process."
If Mandrake dies a horrible and ugly death, it will not just be one more dead distro, it will be proof to all the closed source liscensing junkie corps. that "free" (as in beer) software cannot survive.
Now is the time to contribute to MandrakeSoft and help them out. If you have ever used it, if you use it now, if you have ever found it useful, now is the time to contribute.
I run it, I have contributed. I even saved them the money by d/ling my copy from linuxiso.org and then sending them the money.
But think for a moment, how much a license for Windows costs, and how little it costs to shoot five, or even one, dollar to Mandrake as a "thank you" if you use their software.
"Free" is a misnomer.. nothing is "free".. but "user supported" is probably as close to "free" as we can get, with an important distinction between "user purchased" and "user supported".
I would hate to see what is a rather good distro tank now, because of money woes.
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
This is all rumors so please take it with a grain of salt.
From what I understand during the dot-com boom Mandrake signed contracts regarding e-Education with many bankrupt / troubled dot-com companies. Mandrake has pulled out of those contracts and is now in the penalty phase. These companies want to collect their penalties from Mandrake and Mandrake cannot make the payments.
Under French bankruptcy law these penalties would be voided and the remaining company (the company that sells a Linux distribution) would be viable. So by threatening bankruptcy all they really mean is walking away from their e-Education related debts. This may or may not be a tactic to get the e-Education creditors to be willing to take 10 cents on the dollar rather than the nothing they would get under a bankruptcy.
In any case a bankrupt Mandrake my not mean the end of the Mandrake distribution.
Just to throw in a person note I hope its not the end. Mandrake has a great niche as the desktop distribution for the computer power-user who is not necc. all that knowledgeable about Linux. That's very different from the current crop of easy desktop distributions which are much more power limiting and very different than the server / corporate based distributions. I think its an import niche and one that gets filled regardless of what happens to Mandrake.
Remember, their only valuable asset was the code and Linus owns that. He's a man of principle and I'm sure he'd never sell out, so we are probably safe. What we need to focus on is making Linux stronger than ever. It doesn't matter if 1 or 5 or 10 or a million Linux companies go out of business, because Linux isn't about making money, it's about making choices. Apparently Mandrake made some wrong choices and I hope RedHat avoids the errors Mandrake made, such as a reliance on bells and whistles instead of hardware compliance.
I use Mandrake Linux on my laptop, and am very happy with 9.0. They have a good,solid product, and I think that ultimately this is a good thing. A rebirth of sorts. They made some very poor business decisions early on, but they are on a better track. Unfortunately, this better track could not make up for the past decisions financially quick enough. So they file for bankruptcy, reorganize, refocus on their key advantages, and come back out swinging. Look for a K.O. in a couple of months when come out of their financial corner. Good luck, Mandrake.
This has nothing to do with free software, it has everything to do with mis-management and not knowing how to run a software company.
Get real, if they can't run a business then they should fail, it has nothing to do with Linux or free software.
It's not only sad to see Mandrake having to declare bankruptcy, but it is also sad to see some of the nasty comments that have already been posted.
//e AND made money at it!) and techies tend to hate Mandrake. I cannot see why. They may not want it, but it seems to me the more technically oriented a person is, the more disdain they show on those who are not "as smart" as they are in that particular field. I think this shows a fundamental lack of understanding that comptuers are made for people, not people for computers.
At my LUG, whenever a newbie asks, "What distro should I install?" A bunch of techies respond, "Debian." To which I now point out (after having spent over a week trying to get Debian Woody to work with my ATI Radeon) that newbies have no idea how to handle the module config and that I've had a post on the local LUG board for almost a month now and NOT ONE Debian fan there has been able to tell me how to get Woody to support a common video card (I did get it working - that is not the point -- the point is that it wasn't supported.)
At this LUG, Mandrake has become a dirty word. I've noticed, overall, that programmers (and I used to be one -- used to program a LOT in Assembler on my Apple
If computers and all OS's stayed as difficult to set up as Debian or Slackware, there would not be many computers in offices or homes. As much as I hate M$, Windows is easy enough for even my 80 year old mother to use. That ease of use is a large factor responsible for the omni-presence of computers.
Mandrake has brought Linux to thousands, probably tens of thousands (or millions, for all I know) of users and computers. This is the distro that dared to explore the desktop years before Redhat introduced Bluecurve. This is the distro that is easy enough to use that it is pre-installed on computers at Wal-Mart. While those of use who think we know better act like snobs and talk with disdain over any distro that does not play by our rules, Mandrake has done a better job of any distro (except maybe Lindows) at spreading Linux aroudn the world and making it more popular among people other than programmers and techies.
If you want to talk ugly about Mandrake, go on. It just shows an elitist side that does not realize that without users, programming is just writing utilities and tools so we can write more utilities and tools. In short, without users who need easy to use distros, all we're left with is writing code and making systems for ourselvs. I don't know about you, but to me that is a bit much like masteurbation.
I hope Mandrake pulls out of this.
I also hope those who keep ragging on Mandrake take a step back and realize if it weren't for the easy to use desktops, computers would not be popular, would cost MUCH more, and far fewer of use would have jobs in computers (and these jobs are getting rare enough already).
For-Profit businesses exist for one reason and one reason only: to make money. If they cannot do this, it's their own fault -- especially if they are expecting people to whom they give away their product to send in "contributions", as you call it.
MandrakeSoft is going the way of the dodo because they haven't successfully created a way to make money. End of story. God willing, they'll be replaced by a business which can do so, but don't expect me to send my hard-earned bucks to save 'em.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
One has to wonder why everytime a Linux distro company has problems, everyone pipes up with the slew of "That distro sucked" messages. Personally, I don't think it's fair to bash them based on their feature sets.
However, I have to say that for a company to successfully market Linux, it would seem most logical to use a minimalist production schedule, keeping the boxed copies to a minimum, just enough to fill orders anyway. Everytime I go to Best Buy or Wal-Mart, there's 100s of Mandrake boxes sitting around with price tags a bit on the heavy side (for a free OS anyway).
Perhaps eliminating the fat manual would have saved a bundle. Maybe a better question now is: How could they adjust their marketing/business practices to recover from such a blow? Perhaps we can tell them what we expect from a Linux distribution, and what is useless (or unnecessary).
C. Griffin
"Can I keep his head for a souvenir?" --Max from Sam 'N Max Freelance Police
I have to admit I don't understand this post. I figure it is either a troll, or someone is just venting his/her anger.
Obviously this is a person who knows something about OSS, since he's complaining about what Mandrake did to SYSLINUX, but his last statement: how was MandrakeSoft expecting to make money? Anyone? Anyone? seems to be a clear declaration that he does not understand the open source business model.
People may not like Mandrake -- I've noticed the more someone pisses and moans about Mandrake, the more technically oriented they are. It's a generalization, but it's something I've noticed.
While most of use doing development work realize that without users who need easy-to-use UI's, we would not have jobs, it seems that there are always those who are willing to go on a rampage and complain about anybody or any company that tries to make Linux easier to use.
While you may not like what Mandrake has done in their distro, I dare say they've introduced more people to Linux and have created more happy Linux users than you have.
Personally, I think the more users that are on Linux, the more opportunities there are for those of use doing development work to sell our Linux products. I know some people feel the opposite, and want to keep everything pure and clean and pristine -- all technical, all perfect -- just a haven for techies. We can do that, but if we do, it means VERY few jobs for Linux developers.
Without the users that need easy-to-use systems like Mandrake, (whether they use Linux or Windows or Mac or anything else), there would be far fewer jobs for developers, since computers would remain in the hands of the technically elite.
If you don't like it, don't use it. If you hate it, then it seems only fair that you make sure you never take advantage of what Mandrake has brought to the Linux world -- which is many more users and more opportunities for developers to sell their products and make money.
RedHat survives because of their corporate strategy and partnerships (with IBM etc). Apple's survival has absolutely nothing with the free software projects, it's an absurd example.
Mandrake is mostly a Joe User distro, and as much as I don't like it, I can see that the people maintaining it (even if it was 3-4 people) need to get paid. When everyone goes and downloads the iso in under an hour with their broadband, they see no money in their hands. THAT's the problem.
-bm
Well, had you actually read my post instead of blindly replying to it you would've seen that my frustrations with Mandrake are due to being forced to use it on a deployed network of Mandrake systems. Many of these users are happy with their current desktops and do not want their systems reinstalled, even if the Mandrake scripts have gimped to the point that they can no longer shut down cleanly. I'm living in the "real world" where I'm dealing with administrating more systems than just my home box that I can do whatever the fuck I want with.
"seems to be a clear declaration that he does not understand the open source business model."
Oh, and you do? Well, let's assume you actually know what you're talking about and your statements logically flow. Therefore, your next one should explain the "open source business model." Let's have a peek, shall we?
"People may not like Mandrake -- I've noticed the more someone pisses and moans about Mandrake, the more technically oriented they are. It's a generalization, but it's something I've noticed."
Oh wait, that has nothing to do with the "open source business model" and neither does the rest of your post.
And if I'm the one who doesn't understand the "open source business model", then why is Mandrake filing for bankrupcy?
You know, the funniest part is you get modded up to 4, Insightful for that bullshit while I get modded to 0, Troll. Way to go /.
I'm questioning the chance OSS has without making much money off a product (mandrake) and and how it kills its market for closed source apps (Loki)
The problem isn't OSS, it's bad business models. We had a TON of those in the dot com era, people throwing money at technology as if it'd just magically create profit.
A lot of OSS businesses got their start in this era, so it's natural to see a good deal of them die off horribly.
Loki died, and yet http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/ lives on.
Mandrake is in trouble, yet Red Hat seems to be doing fine.
Also TrollTech seems to be doing okay, MySQL has been chugging along, the PHP folks started up Zend and are doing alright... probably all because they have sound business models or just happened to find the right market.
What is it, 1 out of 10 businesses actually succeed? A few OSS companies folding doesn't reflect on OSS has a whole.
Though this will undoubtedly provide much entertainment for the Linux elitists in our crowd in the short term, I cannot help but wonder what the long-term effects will be.
There are so many people out there who cut their teeth on Mandy, some who have become like the aforementioned zealots, but many like myself who still respect and support Mandrake the distro, and Mandrake the company. It's important that we separate those two things: the distro has always been user-friendly and remarkably scalable, whereas the company has been less stable than a beta-release.
Still, it would be a shame to see it go.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
This is a pretty big name distro, at least in the eyes of Joe Buying Software Off The Shelf.
I never like to see a company with a decent product go under, but frankly, Joe User and Aunt Tillie will just have to wait about 8-10 years to get Linux on their home PC, although they will likely be surrounded by Linux in embedded units. And that's OK: that's not where the real opportunity for Linux lies. Large businesses are the real consumers of Linux, and they weren't even looking at Mandrake (hence the bankruptcy).
Joe User will buy a home PC to match his work system, not the other way around. Make sure he has a Linux box at work and in a few years he'll want one at home to stay compatible in case he "has to take some work home one day". The Quickbooks-oriented small business market is as tough to crack as the consumer market.
It doesn't matter anyway; while the naysayers say "see! I told you so!" and the cheerleaders wring their hands and wonder if the sky is falling, Free/Open Source Software will continue to march along at its own pace, blissfully unaware of the uproar surrounding it.
No, if Mandrake distributes source along with binaries (you know, those three CDs you never use), they have fulfilled their GPL obligations. The GPL does not require that you host an FTP site for the whole free-loading world.
You can charge as much as you want for a CD, but you have to accept that someone can turn around and distribute GPLed programs from the CD. Note, however, that the CD itself (i.e., the compilation) is not necessarily GPLed. The proprietary installer and configuration tools on SuSE CDs prevent you from sharing them with your friends. The trademarked icons on Red Hat ISOs prevent you from selling them.
2- Open source
3- Profitable.
There is NO profitable completely open source business model. Noone ever came up with one. If you have one, do share it.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
All you trolls can bite my ass.
Mandrake make a great distro. It's easy to install. It just works.
The company might have been hijacked by MBA-toting muppets (les kermits?) who cooked up a "strategy" to provide e-learning products - one that would last just long enough for same MBA-toting kermits to cash in their stock options and move on. That's kakked up the company, but the distro kicks ass!
And it's open source! Doh! We still have it! It's alive!
Having said that the last thing I want to see is yet another bloody linux distro (dorkLinux, this is a distro what I made), but if Mandrake don't survive (and I really really hope they do) we still can build on what they did.
Good luck MandrakeSoft!
phew, I feel better now...
Julian.
A common target of ridicule here on Slashdot is the MBA with little or no techcical knowledge trying to run a tech company. But the armchair MBAs in this discussion, trying to second-guess Mandrake's business operations, are pretty ridiculous themselves. It's like listening to a bunch of twelve year old paperboys criticizing the business strategies of the New York Times.
The GPL requires you to offer, for an at-cost charge, the source on the same format you offered the binaries. Thus, if Mandrake only sold the CD's, then they would be required to put the source on a CD and offer that to anyone who bought the binary CD
Offering ISO's on the website is a long-standing tradition of distros, but it isn't required. In fact, Lindows doesn't.
Do the obvious to e-mail me.
YEah so Mandrake shouldnt relesse Mandrake 9.1 until they get their donations. They shouldnt provide any free services until after you pay for them.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
This is one thing that I could never understand about some linux users. I personaly don't have the time to go around "reinventing" the weel by configuring my system to some common setup. I have programs, papers, and other assignments for all of my classes, so why would I want to spend several days working hard at getting my system configured just so I can get to work?
Mandrake was my first experence with a UNIX(tm)-like operating system. I now work comfortably on the Sun systems at my school, and really enjoy programming in the UNIX(tm) enviroment. I don't care to manually configure my own system and hope I never have to. There is no real benifit to manual configuration that cannot be manually modified on a automatic system such as Mandrake.
...interesting if true.
As far as I can gather, from www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html, this is incorrect. The GPL states that - as far as distributing source code goes - you may do one of the following (quoted from above):
In other words, you must either accompany binaries with source code at no extra charge, or offer to provide source code at only the cost it takes to send it to someone (i.e. the price of a blank CD, the price of postage). So you cannot charge an extra $50 or whatever for access to the source code - you can charge all you like for the binaries and only give out the code with those binaries, but you cannot charge any extra for the code (excepting the costs of physically distibuting it, as mentioned above)
You people who say that free software can't compete are simply wrong. One of the oldest examples of a "free" product is the King James (English) version of the Bible. There is no copyright on that manuscript; literally anyone can produce a copy.
There are dozens of other examples, old works from years gone by which are now in the public domain. People make MONEY on these things.
How?
It's simple: by providing them in a form that satisfies the buyer. I rarely download ISO images because I'm on a slow internet connection; I buy CDs. Likewise, I'm not interested in downloading an e-text version of a Dickens novel; I'd rather buy a nice convenient book.
I agree that Mandrake (and ALL commercial Linux vendors) should stop making complete ISOs available for download. The GPL only requires that the *source* be made available. This, combined with Mandrake's excellent *drake tools, would make it quite desirable for the end user.
But the idea of selling a "free" product is perfectly sound. Want one final example? The next time you pay $1.00 for a bottle of water, tell yourself: "you know, I could have downloaded this from the faucet for nothing!"