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Apple Reports Q1 Loss

Amsterdam Vallon writes "Apple recently reported an $8 million loss, its second straight loss, compared with a $38 million profit a year ago. It seems that upbeat laptop sales weren't enough to get this company out of the Wall Street basement. Hopefully, with increasing Mac OS X and wireless-related sales, we'll see a nice increase come next quarter and after that, perhaps a jaunt toward profitability!" The back was apparently tipped into the red with one-time restructuring losses, else there would have been a modest profit; Apple expects stagnant revenues for the near future.

25 of 142 comments (clear)

  1. Damn, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    If only I had enough money to buy a PowerMac. Then Apple would only be down $7,997,000!

    Stupid College, no money...

  2. Marketshare is down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Their worldwide marketshare is now 1.93%. According to IDC, 38.4 million PCs were shipped last quarter, up 4% from the year ago period. Apple shipped 743,000 Macs which is down 2% from the year ago period. This follows a steady trend in declining marketshare over the past 5 years.

    1. Re:Marketshare is down by mgaiman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't know. It really seems like IDC has a bone to pick with apple. Read this cnet article and see. I'm not trusting IDC numbers when they seem that biased in interviews.

      Also, that same IDC guy is predicting tablets to replace ultraportables in general, which will not happen.

    2. Re:Marketshare is down by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Informative
      Their worldwide marketshare is now 1.93%

      This statistic, like most computer-use statistics, is erroneous and misleading.

      IDG does not factor in sales from direct retail (i.e. Apple Store), or the online AppleStore incarnation. A better way to read that is: Apple has 1.93% of the PC market.

      If you really want to see what percentage of the computer-using public is on Mac, check Google's stats. (can't find it now, but I know its there somewhere.)

      There is a downward trend in marketshare, but this is indicative of the entire PC industry in general.

      Sorry for the pickiness - I just hate seeing that bad IDG stat quoted over and over again.

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    3. Re:Marketshare is down by Mononoke · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Their worldwide marketshare is now 1.93%.
      According to whom?

      Also according to IDC: "Apple Computer, the fifth-largest manufacturer in the United States, saw its U.S. market share rise from 2.9 percent to 3 percent in the fourth quarter."

      Lies, damn lies, and statistics, I suppose.

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    4. Re:Marketshare is down by neverkevin · · Score: 5, Informative

      Do you mean Google Zeitgeist? I don't know If I could consider that the authority on Apple market share, but it's better then IDG. If you are going to believe Google then Apple market share has stayed steady at 4%.

    5. Re:Marketshare is down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well I've been buying Macs "regularly" since they came out. I bought one in 1984. I bought another one in 1991 or so. Bought one in 1998. Bought one in 2001. I *might* get one this year.

      In the old days you could use a Mac for a LONG time before needing a new one. (These days Mac technology is moving faster it seems).

      I buy new x86 Linux boxes at least once every two years. They are cheap, and lose their value so fast it makes more sense to ditch them regularly (I always try and sell my boxes before getting new ones, I'm not interested in "collecting" boxes).

      *shrug*

      These numbers don't tell you how many people are using Macs, just how many are being purchased in certain channels.

      Not that it matters how much market share apple has..?

  3. More details.... by bifurcation · · Score: 5, Informative

    fyi, here's the Original Press release from apple and the Quicktime broadcast of the conference call in which the statements are announced.

    one should note also that the only reason apple posted a loss was that it had to pay a one-time restructuring fee. without that, it would have actually posted an $11M profit, which would be a drop (from $38M last Q1), but a far less dramatic one than the loss they indicated.

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    1. Re:More details.... by TotallyUseless · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes, that is a lot. where the money goes probably depends on where the restructuring is. I know they laid off close to 50% of the PowerSchool division, many of them executives. All of these people are getting 2 months severance pay. It wouldn't surprise me if a large chunk of that $20mil came just from the PowerSchool layoffs.

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    2. Re:More details.... by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Informative

      There are two main expenses in restructuring, a corporate euphamism for layoffs, severance and lease termination fees. Usually the bulk is severance, but it does depend on the lease structure. Occasionally there are non cash restructuring expenses usually writing down of assests. $20 million is pretty small, I think Nortel had a cash restructuring charge in the billions. They also had writedowns in the $10s of billions, but that isn't a cash expense. A write-down is just the company recognising that something they bought wasn't worth what they paid for it.

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  4. Question by Znonymous+Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Why aren't more people buying Macs (especially the slashdot crowd)? I was a Linux head until I discovered Mac OS X. Mac OS X is simply fantastic. You can get an eMac for $1099. Or an iBook for $999. That's cheap in IMHO.

    And now it's easier to run Linux software on Macs thanks to Apple's release of X11 for Mac OS X.

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    1. Re:Question by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I'll field this one.

      Why aren't more people buying Macs (especially the slashdot crowd)?

      Well, they are. Buying more Macs, that is. However, what you are essentially looking at is a split in the Slashdot crowd. Apple has created a rift in the *nix community - not a bad thing, IMHO, as rifts are encouraged in this kind of social dynamic.

      This is a bit simplistic (and I'm sure some will let me know just how simplistic...) but here's how I see it:

      Slashdot Reader #0 has been using UNIX for a while. Apple releases OS X. Reader #0 likes:

      - *nix-like distro with BSD personality
      - groovy interface
      - the Support Fairy (i.e. having some)
      - Mainstream apps (Photoshop, Office, a few big-name games, etc.)
      - Apple's Open Source initiatives
      - hi-quality integrated hardware that works seamlessly with OS

      Slashdot Reader #1 has been using *nix or Windows for awhile. Apple releases OS X. Reader #1 hates:

      - proprietary software (OSS be damned; if its 0wn3d by anyone, its bad. This is an arguable position)
      - pseudo-proprietary hardware that is behind the bleeding edge of what you can build
      - goofy interface
      - premium pricing
      - lack of games (because that's what they really want a 3.0Ghz PC for. Oh, you have a legitimate use? good for you. You are rare.)
      - Apple, in general (possibly for past transgressions against them, possibly 'just 'cause)

      (Of course, then there's me, Slashdot Reader #2: always used Macs, still use Macs, have a technical bent despite being a graphic designer, yet hangs out on Slashdot...)

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    2. Re:Question by WatertonMan · · Score: 4, Insightful
      As recent events [slashdot.org] have shown us Apple makes proprietary software and hardware and it sometimes bites you in the a$$. If thye don't like what you are doing they have much more power to stop you when you are running Apple software. This is wrong on so many levels. First off it was the modification of iTunes in a way which broke the license agreement with the SDK. The above is like complaining about the two different QT licenses and therefore inferring we all ought to avoid KDE.

      Second basically every Linux MP3 player still works with OSX. Exactly what have you lost? So you didn't get to modify iTunes. Yet even with that removed you still have more choice than you did on your Linux or BSD box.

      Complaining that one piece of non-open source software can't be modified when all the existing opensource ones can is silly. What's even sillier is that you can still do everything that iCommune did using Apache and Rendezvous. Further a lot of people would say that iCommune didn't work that well to begin with.

      Part of the reason Apple's marketshare is slipping is because people are afraid to buy because Apple's marketshare is slipping. There is some truth to this. However it tends to be based upon questionable statistics. Apple's marketplace slide pretty much stopped around '98 and has remained fairly constant since. Further folks keep quoting world figures rather than American figures. So these statistics are somewhat biased and misleading. I think you also have to recognize that Apple is still amongst the big 5 players as well. I think Sun has a better chance of going under than Apple does. Does this mean you shouldn't buy anything with Solaris?

      The processor line is the problem. However that is also a problem that Apple has solved. Like those awaiting the new AMD chips, the vision is in sight. We're just waiting for delivery. And this isn't vaporware the way that the promised G5 was.

  5. Future Savings by kruetz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Fair enough, they've spent a lot of money to get where they are. But from here on in, they should be able to save a fair bit. While having BSD as the core of MacOSX won't give them billion-dollar profits, it surely helps reduce OS-related software development costs.

    And with these savings, they can spend time developing better, easier-to-use-for-the-whole-family apps. For example, their Powerpoint killer (whose name I have momentarily forgotten - argh!) and their iLife range (I think that was the name - I'm not a Mac user (can you tell?)).

    Hopefully they can improve even further on the quality of their programs, because that's what the "Apple Experience" is all about.

    Hell, I'd buy one except that in Australia, it costs me at least $2,500 to get the Mac-equivalent of my $1,200 home-built rig. Not to mention all of the PC games and stuff. But I digress.

    Also, if Apple can work on the X-Windows side of things, perhaps they'll be used by big IT spenders to replace aging *NIX systems - another boon of the BSD lineage. Go MacOSX and go Apple!

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  6. Probably stating the obvious... by Cinematique · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but nobody wants to buy a PowerMac G4 when they feel a G5 is right around the corner. Unfortunately, anyone who watches the Mac scene knows that "G5s" have been around the corner now for two years.

    I predict the largest problem for Apple is that even when the G5 finally ships, it'll be a lets-get-what-we-can-out-the-door-now type system based on the new IBM PowerPC/Altivec chip.

    Personally, I hope Apple waits (...and waits...) until they have a box to really thump the x86 side of things again before they attempt to release anything under the title of a new generation.

    The first G4 motherboards sucked.

  7. Apple's Q1's are just not important... by 0x69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple's Q1 results are pretty much what the stock geeks expected. The whole industry is bad shape from the dot-com bubble burst, with sales & prices *way* down from "the good old days".

    Apple's got over four billion dollars cash in the bank, good (& stable) leadership, an established (& loyal) market base, and an impressive R&D program. They're getting through the "Gigahertz Gap" and moving away from the chip supplier that caused it (Motorola).

    Apple is not a massive-financial-leverage house of cards (Enron, WorldCom, etc.) that needs a high stock price. Apple stockholders are not a fast-buck-happy mob who'll burn the company's future for great numbers for a quarter or few.

    Bottom line: Apple is far too healthy a company and far too sober a stock to need to care much about routine quarterly financials.

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  8. Reader #1 is conflicted by metamatic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Of course, reader #1 has a fundamentally conflicted position... he hates proprietary software, yet he buys a bleeding-edge machine and runs the latest Windoze games on it, thereby supporting proprietary software and the Microsoft monopoly.

    If you're going to spend money on proprietary software, you might at least support UNIX, open source, and non-monopoly manufacturers by buying a Mac. There *are* adequate numbers of Mac games, after all.

    (Don't try to convince me all those PC gamers are buying 2GHz machines so they can play Nethack really fast... or even GLQuake.)

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  9. Sun loses $2.125 billion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To keep things in perspective. After a loss of $431 million last quarter. Revenue was not that much larger than the quarterly loss, at $2.8 billion. Apple loses $8 million after a restructuring charge, adds $125 million to its cash, keeps its r&d spending up and I'm supposed to feel bad?

  10. Jobs kept his word. by skia · · Score: 4, Informative
    This shouldn't be a big surprise, as this is exactly what Apple said they were going to do at MWNY last year. Jobs said that the market was crappy and that Apple's sector and therefore Apple itself would be hit hard. But he said that Apple had a lot in the bank and -- unlike other computer manufacturers -- was prepared to invest and innovate through the downturn, taking a loss at first, then floating by on their technology, and then, when things started picking back up again, hitting the ground running to overtake their competitors.

    Looks like, with the introduction of the new sexxy powerbooks, some great brand-new lines of software, and that big hit listed as "one time re-organization costs", Apple is right on schedule.

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  11. OK, so they lost 8 million dollars, so what? by analog_line · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They've got 4.4 BILLION (that's Billion, with a B) in the bank.

    Somehow, I fail to be able to dredge up anything resembling panic for Apple's future.

  12. Deathmarch by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well, then, at their current burn rate, they'll be out of business in 137 years. I'd better get a PC soon.

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  13. Re:declining profits by willis · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm a recent first-time apple buyer -- and since I don't know that many people who have ibooks, I relied on an apple demonstration at a expensive location (Canary Wharf in London) and a few non Apple Store outlets for testing. I ended up buying the machine online (amazon was giving free palm pilots w/ purchase).

    When it comes to spending $1,500, people (at least me) don't enter the decision lightly -- I had to be sure that I knew what I was getting, and retail outlets are a good way for a non-dominant product to get its name out/make people feel more comfortable with the entire idea.

    Frankly, I thought the iMacs (lamp-looking macs) looked pretty damn stupid online, but when I actually saw one, I was quite impressed.

    Also, although I don't live in the states, the switch ads had a positive impact on my decision, as well -- reading the stories online encouraged me to give it a shot. (I program Solaris/Linux for a living).

    Lastly, I'm pretty impressed with the system so far -- I haven't spent much time under the hood, but that's because I haven't really had to.

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  14. Apple's Market Share by SeanAhern · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think all of these numbers may be wrong.

    Recently, I read an interesting article about Apple's market share. A reporter kept seeing different numbers, so decided to do the calculations for himself.

    Turns out it's more like 11.6%.

    Don't believe me? You can read his analysis here.

    That's more than 10 times the market share that Linux has.

  15. Luxuries during economic downturn. by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    In an ecomonic downturn or uncertainty people defer the puchase of luxury goods. It's also well known that while they economize on the big items, they also splurge on cheap luxuries like cheesburgers or movies.

    Apple computers are luxury goods compared to you barebones PC. This is not to say apple products are expensive for what you get, actually they are a screaming deal for what you get. It's even arguable that apple's have lower long term costs. But faced with budgetary limits, people will seek short term economies and cheap PC's or NO pc at all is it.

    On the otherhand this is leading to a lot of defered purchases. When the economic confidence resumes or companies reach a point where they have to upgrade they will make those purchases. So I think it's important to look not just at apple's sales relative to PC sales, but rather to apple's installed base. Those people are the ones that are defering purchases and will likely be purchasing apples in the future.

    I've read apple has a fair amount of cash in the bank and they have a relatively adaptive production line. Thus they are in a good position to do research and develop strategic products (keynote, iPhoto, OSX, G5 architectures, Xraid) during the economic downturn. If they restructure a bit to minimize cash burn and keep innovating they will win when the market inproves. Some evidence can be seen at the consumer elctronics show where the most innovative ideas were a nerd watch and an ovrsized ipod that cant play DVDs. The collective PC idustry is not spending money on research there are no venture capital to launch new things. Mean while apple chugs out all sort of new stuff single handedly.

    it's anyone's guess when this economic downturn will end. By the end of it there's going to be a lot of consolidationa and carnage inthe PC industry. what will emegre will be fewer companies with either the leanest production or the most innovative products. Apple will benefit on both ends. their production costs will go down due to the lower costs of production of electronics and they will have the most uniquely differentiated products. So it's really a question of staying solvent not making money at this point in the game.

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  16. Re:declining profits by LordNimon · · Score: 5, Informative
    Apple stores are a success, not a failure:

    Mr. Anderson noted that the retail stores generated $23 million in manufacturing profit. "[They're] already beginning to pay off," Anderson said, responding to naysayers.

    Source: http://www.macnn.com/feature.php?id=373

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