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Sharks in Serious Danger
jd writes "According to the BBC, shark populations in the Atlantic declined on average 75% (the hammerhead faring worst at 86% loss) in the past 15 years. This ain't trivial. Many sharks produce one pup a year, if that, and less than half of those survive to adulthood. Sharks are essential to the health of the oceans, so this is not a trivial concern. They're mostly in decline because some idiots like to cut off the dorsal fin, to make soup. (You kill a lot of sharks, and get gristle stew as a reward.) Others die because of paranoia, and yet more because of psychotic trophy hunters. If sharks do die out, they will be the longest-lived species that humanity has exterminated. (Who needs Daleks? We're doing just fine on our own... :()"
What other animals have we extermanted?
Sharks have jumped themselves.
I'm gonna do my part and see it at the dollar theater next week.
some idiots like to cut off the dorsal fin
:).
Whoa, you just dissed an entire country!
Like many Americans, we scratch our heads when we hear about idiotic practices like killing endangered species such a rhino for its "horn" (actually hair-based protein), or a black bear for its gall bladder, aligators for skin, or, the classic case, elephants for ivory and the occasional foot wastepaper basket (see Gary Larson
Yet of course we've done all kinds of similar things like the buffalo for tongues and hides, the dodo bird for feathers, fur of various animals driven nearly to extinction, etc. I don't think even now we're particularly unified in our view of spotted owls and other species that "get in the way of progress." So with our history and our modern ambivalence, I don't think we're in a great position to lecture, and we're really recent converts ourselves.
But we are in a great position to persuade and, of course, to fund. Shifting the African economy near game preserves from hunting to tourism and financeing alternative agricultural techniques near the rain forests are examples, and help more than the most earnest sermon.
As a conservationist and an avid scuba diver, I am wondering if their data collection methods could be incorrect. 75 percent seems a bit much.
Never overestimate the end user. -jeramy b. smith
DR. EVIL
Release the sharks!
(to the room)
All the sharks have had laser beams attached to their heads. I figure every creature deserves a warm meal.
FRAU FARBISSINA
(Clearing her throat nervously)
Dr. Evil?
DR. EVIL
Yes, what is it? You're interrupting my moment of triumph.
FRAU FARBISSINA
It's about the sharks. Since you were frozen, they've been placed on the Endangered Species List. We tried to get some, but it will take months to clear up the red tape.
DR. EVIL
(disappointed)
Right.
(to Austin)
Mr. Powers, we're going to lower you in a tank of piranhas with laser beams attached to their heads.
(Frau clears her throat again.)
DR. EVIL
What is it now?
FRAU FARBISSINA
Well, we experimented with lasers, but you would be surprised at how heavy they are. They actually outweighed the piranha themselves, and the fish, well, they sank to the bottom and died.
DR. EVIL
I have one simple request- C, and it can't be done? Remind me again why I pay you people?
What do we have?
FRAU FARBISSINA
Sea bass.
DR. EVIL
Right.
Wow - the extinction of sharks would mean that Australians could only be killed by dingos - you know that's gotta increase the expected lifespan of Australians by a lot! :)
Whoa, you just dissed an entire country!
Well no, Keanu, not exactly. The people who have been dissed are those that engage in the practice or that purchase products based on those actions. I'm sure that there are people in those countries who aren't happy about the practice of cutting off the dorsal fin.
Yet of course we've done all kinds of similar things like the buffalo for tongues and hides, the dodo bird for feathers, fur of various animals driven nearly to extinction, etc. I don't think even now we're particularly unified in our view of spotted owls and other species that "get in the way of progress." So with our history and our modern ambivalence, I don't think we're in a great position to lecture, and we're really recent converts ourselves.
I'm sure that the same people who frown on the asian practice of killing sharks just for their fin are equally ashamed of the examples you listed in the western world. And, besides, if we've "recently seen the light", don't you think it's perfectly normal for us to try to explain our insight to others? Maybe they can learn from our mistakes.
Please, extinction of species is a serious issue in its own right. Don't try to muddle the discussion by throwing in some tenuous link to nationalism or racism.
GMD
watch this
Lightning Bolt!
Lightning Bolt!
Lightning Bolt!
Populationwise the earth can sustain about 10 Billion (with a B and we are at 6 billion now), I tend to think thats a little high, we are already starting to show the signs of ecological collapes now in Thermal increases. I think 4 Billion is a better number.
Personally I am a big fan of Soylent Green, I find it varys from person to person.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Funny that the 2 billion-odd members of the race you consider stupid tend to think of themselves as pretty damn intelligent...
gosh I never knew that.
Did the Human Genome Project do much research into soup preference alleles?
I thought that it was people who cut of fins not races.
You'll be telling me next that me not drinking milk is an insult to my ancestors or some other such nonsense.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
would you put your brain in a robot body?
... i'd put it in something better.
...
what, like a robot-human body?
yeah.
no.
IN THE WORLD'S SECOND MOST ADVANCED RESEARCH FACILITY
welcome to sealab
A BRILLIAN SCIENTIST HAS CREATED A NEW LIFE FORM
ladies and gentlemen, i'd like you meet marla.
holy crap!
what have you done!
BUT IN ORDER TO SURVIVE
i took nature's perfect killing machine and needlessly turned it into a robot.
THEY'LL HAVE TO DESTROY HIS CREATION
get him out of there! something's wrong!
oh, you think?
she cut the power!
how the hell could it cut the power, it's a shark!
holy crap!
let's go fishy.
to survival of the fittest?
If an animal goes extinct for any reason, doesn't that just mean it wasn't "fittest"?
It was Number 2, dammit. RESPECT NUMBER 2!
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
How are sharks essential to health of oceans? Seems to me larger concern is cause of the declining numbers....is their food supply diminishing drastically, or is it just the result of human hunting and also killing as side-effect of fishing? I would have thought sharks an indicator more than essential in themselves. Going to do research on that right now.....
You gotta be kidding, I thought there were too *many* in this country! Oh, wait, I'm thinking of lawyers. It's sometimes hard to tell those bloodthirsty species apart. I should have known when you mentioned the 'pups'. We all know lawyers spawn fully grown from fissures in the earth. :)
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
I know this was modded as flamebait, because, well...it is flamebait. But it does raise an interesting issue.
Fitness is a measure of average reproductive success. If these shark populations are in fact markedly declining then, yes, these sharks do not seem to be very fit. Fitness is a function of environment. You might say that an individual shark has an particular fitness per particular environmental state. When environments (here defined as including other organisms (including us and other sharks)) change, fitness can change.
However, even if this statement might be more or less factual, this statement was used to say something else entirely: that it doesn't matter, ethically or practically, that sharks are dying out...because well its how the natural world works.
But this is a rather weak arguement. First, physical facts, alone, probably do not unambiguously indicate ethical values. This is known as the fact-value distinction. This means that the fact that sharks are not currently fit does not justify our unconcern for their lack of fitness. Still, it does not indicate the contrary either. Personally, I think that it is a very complicated ethical problem. I think we should beware a tendency towards thinking in terms of "presevation" rather than "stewardship." Just because something is natural, doesn't imply that it is the best of possibilities.
Regardless of the ethics of sharks survival or (non-survival), the decline of shark populations should concern us for other, very pragmatic, reasons. The world's ecosystem is vastly dynamic and inter-connected. 9999999 Changes in one component of the system could have complex, unpredictable, and sometimes dramatic global effects. The world is not so simple as we like to believe. It actually doesn't take much to push a system into a positive feed-back loop that reinfoces some tendency...say an ice-age. And for those who pooh pooh this as some kind of paranoid catastrophism need to take a little closer look at the earth's history (or a look at most of the other planets in our solar system). It is not unusual. It happens all the time.
Logic, macros, and more
They do eat their own offspring on occasion. Well it isn't increasing the population any is it. Well first Bananas now sharks, what next the African Fruit Fly?
Environments change. Species die. Other species rise to take their place. It's been the way of the world since like forever. Just because you haven't been around long enough to notice natural selection doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
If the sharks can't adapt to their new environment, another species that is more adaptable will be able use the newly freed resources.
They also :
Dont get cancer and no one knows why.
Have built in natural antibiotics we are still finding.
Are one of the oldest most durable animals on the planet, if we are taking them out, we should really look at what the hell were doing.
And yeah, they make tasty soup. Im one of the bigger anti enviornemntalist cranks youll come across(Aint againt the enviornment, just the current crop of enviornmentalists). I also love swordfish steak. I havent had it for 5 years because i saw the studies about how fished out the stocks are. If -I- am willing to give up one of my favorite foods to ensure future supply, the maybe people coud skip that second bowl of shark fin soup for a while.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Hollywood should create a 21st century _Jaws_ rewrite called _Hands_. The idea is that all these sharks are cavorting happily when (cue the ominous music) out of the blinding heights of the ocean come these bubble-trail-leaving rubbermen with opposable thumbs and harpoons...
- undoware.ca
Are they ill-tempered sea bass?
Emiliania huxleyi is a unicellular algae living in the oceans. These algae impact weather patterns.
http://ethomas.web.wesleyan.edu/ees123/daisy.htm
the discussion of the algae is in section 3.
http://ethomas.web.wesleyan.edu/ees123/
a great site to learn a lot about earth's ecological/geological history.
Logic, macros, and more
I thought only *cute* animals go on the endangered list.
Table-ized A.I.
...the dodo bird for feathers...
Suddenly, you feel you are a Dutch settler on Mauritius.
> EAT DODO
The Dodo is not palatable
> TAKE FEATHERS
The Dodo expires
[Your score has increased by: 0 points]
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
We all know what the extinction of the sharks means: no more Animal Planet!
-- Cheers!
...we'll no longer need a bigger boat?
Save the animals (PETA - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals)
Farming sharks would be very tough considering Aquariums are still haveing problems containing sharks. Electrical systems have a tendancy to interfere with their navigation, as I recall from some news articles some months back.
If an animal goes extinct for any reason, doesn't that just mean it wasn't "fittest"?
under normal, natural conditions.
humans are not normal, or natural anymore.
not to sound like a tree hugging hippie or anything, but survival of the fittest, like anything, can only go so far. ok, look at it this way-
humans are one of the most adaptable things on the earth, and kill EVERYTHING off after a couple thousand years- no trees, no alge, no kitty-cats. Then what? soilent green? At that point, is the planet healthy?
yes, this is an extreme- but it 's only there to show you what humanity COULD do with it's current attitude.