Slashdot Mirror
Garmin Palm Device With GPS
Moritz writes "Garmin is introducing a PalmOS5 handheld with GPS, MP3 and 32MB of memory. That's very nice, but why is there no bluetooth? Why can't somebody just get the spec right? Other than that this seems to be a nice addition to the PalmOS lineup."
remove the GPS and add the bluetooth!! Its the darn standard!!
Give me 802.11g and more memory. Seriously, 32MB? How hard would it be to put 64 or 128MB? My ancient MP3 player has 64MB integrated... Is there a limitation of the PalmOS or something???
So, if this is SD/IO capable then you can drop a bluetooth card in there.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
... one of these to go with my Sony/Ericsson T68, HBH30 bluetooth headset and Palm Tungsten T:
Socket Bluetooth GPS Receiver
This offers much more flexibility, and I can leave the phone in my pocket, the GPS in my bag and use two hands to navigate the maps and links on the Palm.
Now wash your hands.
Secure Digital Slot.
This is functionality that is being moved out into secondary cards, because the chipsets and antenna have become small enough. A GPS Antenna has to be significantly larger, hence, the Handspring cards, and this Antenna. Personally, I use the eTrex Vista a LOT, and this will probably be my next handheld, after a Visor Platinum. Good work Garmin.
One Token Ring to Rule them All, One Search Engine to Find Them, One WAN to bring them in, and TCP/IP Bind them...
Why not put in something like 512MB? It's not like it takes any more space these days... and it should cost a full $2 more to integrate. No bluetooth? No 802.11g? Come on - all or nothing please!
If this unit comes with 32 MB that's room for only seven songs. Gee, why not advertise that it plays movies too. 30 whole seconds worth!
Oh. You want maps and music? Sorry Charlie.
In a band? Use WheresTheGig for free.
Its a common thing with the slashdot crowd, something comes along with GPS and they moan about bluetooth (there could be issues with the GPS getting interference from bluetooth). If it had bluetooth it would be 802.11b, if it had that it would be the screen size, if it had that it would be too big.
HEY FOLKS A QUICK REALITY CHECK.
Having EVERYTHING costs money, these devices are aimed at sectors that want "just enough" at a reasonable price rather than "every damn thing under the sun" just so you can impress your mates.
If it had everything and was $1000 you'd bitch about the price.
In summary: The Slashdot crowd wants
A Tablet PC with a flexible paper thin screen that can be folded from the size of a credit card to A0, which has GPS, Bluetooth, Firewire 400 & 800, USB 1 and 2, every wireless connection method under the Sun, IRDA, Biometric authentication, works via a keyboard or a "keyboard glove", has a 15Ghz Transmeta processor, 1TB of RAM, 1PB of Storage, runs off a single AA battery for 3 year, runs Linux and responds to scribbles or the spoken word.
And costs under $100. Only then will people on Slashdot not moan about the features... except to complain how X they bought a year ago is now out of date and uncool.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
They are always good in one area, but in another area I need it is skimped upon or left out. This is a pest because it would be incredibly handy to have one for my work but I cann't bring myself to waste money on something inadiquite.
Perhaps my problem is I just don't have enough money to spend on a whizz-bang one. Ah. Thats it.
I like my electronics to be seperate and small. I don't want a phone/MP3/PDA/GPS/condom dispenser. A device like that would be too big. I want a small phone, a small GPS, a small MP3 player, and a small PDA. In total they would be bigger than the all-in-one, but you could store them in different locations as well. Also, if your single unit breaks, your screwed. And there's always the fact that I don't want a PDA or GPS device. I only want a phone and an MP3 player. The only logical combination I can come up with is the phone/GPS device.
Help I'm a rock.
considering the major features its lacking, I would never pay a whooping 589 bucks for this thing.
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
Just wait for this story the 2nd time around, I am sure it will be up as soon as taco hears about it in a few days...
The specs of this new gadget don't sound too different from the Tungsten T...they exchanged Bluetooth and the 5-way navigation pad for GPS and twice as much memory. It's likely to have the same audio problem, unless Palm is supplying Garmin with a fixed version of Palm OS.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Now if only I could find a compelling reason to own a PDA. I've been trying to think of an excuse, but the thing is, Post-it notes work fine for me. I gues I just have no life.
"I don't need/want one so therefore it's useless"
I mean, get over yourselves. Obviously Palm is selling enough of these to people who do need or want them, and their customers obviously don't particularly care about bluetooth yet.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
How about because bluetooth is a completely useless waste of money that serves no point and has yet to find a solid implementation? Oops, did I think that out loud?
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
It also has routing capabilities (ie; MapQuest directions) and will route on both the PC and the PDA. Also, with this configuration I am not limited by the PDA's low battery capacity and only go to it when I need to look at the map (ie; I set up waypoints in advance in the GPS). I do a lot of outdoor activities mtn bike/camp etc; and this scenario, although not as elegant as an all-in-one, works for what I need it for.
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
This device is of no use to me. I don't speak a word of Garmin.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
it has to play OGG Vorbis!
Is it me, or are the newest Palm (Palm OS 5???) devices over-priced. They're getting in to the same price range as Pocket PCs, yet they don't have as much functionality or versatility. I recently opted to get a Palm M515 for CAD$360 (USD$230) and it fullfills my needs well. It seems to me that the increase in functionality going to a new Palm is less than the increase in functionality going to a PPC, yet the price increases are almost the same.
Garmin comes from the GPS side of this. They're not known for PDAs. I can't see where all 3 would be useful in situations where the GPS is used a lot. And the description doesn't mention water resistance. Makes any GPS useless for real world usage, IMHO.
......
As for no networking, my Garmin 76S has a 4 wire conn to my laptop. Serial, true, but plenty fast enough to load maps and routes into it's 24meg. I've never looked into it to see how that part works.I can load maps into it at the nav station and then take it up to the wheel. In the car, it's even easier. Laptop sits on an unoccupied seat and the GPS is against the windshield.
As for the 32meg, I get 4 books, nav s/w, games, etc on my 8meg Visor Edge. Plenty and it's at least somewhat water resistent. (Haven't dropped in the drink, but rain hasn't drowned it... yet) Colour screen would be nice. Reading a book on the GPS would be easier to read than the Edge, me thinks...
As for the MP3 player, I've got a stereo on the boat and in the car. When I'm walking/hiking, I like the sounds around me better. Then again, I'm not a big music-on-the-go buff.
Nice toy for somebody else, I guess. But with $589 I could get a good set of
I'm an iPod owner, and when it came out I thought that very soon there'd be a ton of PDAs ditching their 32Mb RAM and moving over to fitting the same sort of mini hard drive that the iPod has. However, none have arrived that I'm aware of. Strange, I honestly believed that would be the next step. The iPod has shown that music listening is popular, so I would have thought that there's room for a PDA which does more than just the classic contacts/calendar/task list.
Does anyone know of a PDA which is hard drive-based?
Cheers,
Ian
'so?'
it's not like it's too innovative..
putting electronic warfare stuff on warheads is ancient history too!
For those of you going on about how theres ONLY 32 megs of memory on this thing for your MP3s, if you actually read the specs on it there's an SD expansion slot on the unit. For those who don't know what THAT means: as much memory as you want to buy.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
The other night I was walking through a rat shack and noticed a GPS unit for handhelds on the wall for $99. I did a little research into it when I got home and found out that it's actually made by DeLorme, comes with XMap/Street Atlas 2003 and supports the NMEA output standards. Output from the GPS unit itself is an RJ11 jack, and it includes three cables (Palm mSeries, iPaq 31xx/36xx, iPaq 38xx/39xx) with others supposedly available online for laptops. After a little tinkering and figuring, I got it working just fine with my monochrome iPaq 3150.
I went to a different rat shack last night to pick up the unit, and found even more surprises. It's on sale right now (if you can catch the promotion before they pretend it doesn't exist - one place said it never existed, the other said it -shouldn't- exist even though they had the red and white tag on the wall) for $69. It runs on batteries or 6 volts of DC for maximum flexibility. With my particular iPaq of the non-sync-charging variety, there's no reason I can't charge the iPaq and the GPS at the same time with a decent dual outlet inverter.
For a total cost of $300 (Including the $150 iPaq) I have a perfect wardriving kit in need of software. Yes, I'm rambling. Time for Concerta.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Mapping Software. You have to travel pretty extensively to require a pocket atlas. Most 'normal' people can take a quick look at a map before they leave and maybe scribble a couple of notes on a PostIt. If I have an appointment, it is not unusual for someone to email me a local map in advance.
GPS. GPS! For God's sake! When was the last time you got so lost that you needed friggin' GPS to pinpoint your location to the nearest ten feet. If you are that bad at navigating, you should not be let out alone. Does it come with distress flares and a survival kit?
Voice recorder for making memos, quick notes, and messages on the fly. Just in case the GPS let's you down, you can leave a message for your loved ones - assuming anybody finds your cold, lifeless body.
Rechargeable internal Lithium-ion battery. If you are so goddam far from civilisation that you need GPS to safe your sorry hide, where are you gonna plug it in?
Built-in 32 MB of memory for downloading map data and other Palm OS-compatible software. At this point I would prefer a means of lighting a fire and perhaps obtaining fresh food and water. A raft would be useful. I suppose you would die secure in the knowledge that your Palm Pilot was fully up-to-date.
New ARM processor enhances battery life, screen redraw, graphics, and audio. Can it skin a rabbit or fend off hungry crocodiles?.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that you are the kind of person who needs 80% of the above features in order to manage your hectic schedule. You must be a pretty busy guy huh? Probably one of the high-flying, go-get-em entrepreneurs who can never afford to miss an appointment or be in the wrong place at the wrong time. In which case, where the fuck do you find the time to play games and listen to MP3s?
This is a toy for pencil dicks who can't afford a Ferrari.
Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
..or you could buy a 512meg SD, than way you can have about 120 songs to listen to while you go geo profiling.
Because when you're on the road, trying to find your way to a client and keep on schedule, nothing's more important than bluetooth support
ever try a map? or setting your alarm clock a little sooner? How about the people who would rather have bluetooth then gps becuase they work in there city?
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
One of the best things about the T68/Tungsten combo is how easy it is to get online with it. The Tungsten discovered the phone quickly and I was able to set it up easily. Having the two connected is great - I sent all of my phone contacts to the bluetooth with a couple of clicks and use the Tungsten SMS software regularly.
Getting on to the internet was also fairly simple. My phone is connected to the Orange network in the UK, so I called them (dial 156) and got them to activate GPRS. With GPRS activated Orange become my ISP and I pay them for KB downloaded.
Then I opened the preferences on Web Pro and set the service as orange, the user name as orange, entered the password, and chose my 'BT to t68' connection. In the phone number box I wrote "*99***1#" (information I got from a newsgroup) and I set up the primary and secondary DNS information from the Orange web site.
I'd reccommend turning off images to safe money.
Setting up Versa Mail was a little trickier, but the system very useable once set up.
Now wash your hands.
Why don't you apply for a job there, I am sure it's just an oversight, in their engineering dept. They were probably not aware of bluetooth. You should be able to straighten this out quickly.
While we are at it why not add WiFi (seems to be popular)and a 100gig harddrive, probably just a faux pas that you can fix as well.
Slashdot need a sarcasm tag.
Help fight continental drift.
Shouldn't be too hard - you don't have to worry about size, transportability, or even power source (tap into the local grid).
Oops - now when you try to re-submit the article, the Department of Homeland Defense (or whatever) is going to come knocking on your door.
As several people have said, the SD card allows the flexibility of adding the features you want that don't come standard. However, as soon as this list grows to more than ONE, say a SD memory card and a bluetooth adapter, you have to start swapping the little buggers around and juggling files appropriately. If, for instance, you want to send a file from an external memory card via Bluetooth, you'd have to copy the file to the device memory, swap in the bluetooth card, wait for it to be recognized, and then send the file. This kind of implementation hampers the ease of use that Bluetooth can (but frequently doesn't) have.
Have you seen my stapler?
The problem with bluetooth is that it is extrordinairily complex. needlessly complex. The standards comittee took years to create a spec so byzantine that it takes vendors years to implement.
An alternative is coming. Cypress Semiconductors is rolling out wireless USB. In a nutshell...
- lower cost (simpler = less silicon; $3.50/unit. That is the wireless and the little CPU to run your keyboard, mouse, game controller, or interface to your larger device.)
- lower latency (low enough for FPS games. 8ms, up to 20ms with 7 devices. Human reaction time is something like 50ms.)
- higher speed (217kbps)
- standard software (everything is still USB to your computer)
Their first releases are an integrated HID controller and the upstream bridge which should be available now or very soon. It isn't clear to me if the bridge chip can be used by people making non-HID hardware devices, like PDAs, as a client interface.You can read their old press release here. There is a link to a nice PDF at the bottom of that page.
Leading unanswered questions...
- How does it get along with 802.11[bg]? They are in the same band, both frequency hop.
- Cell phone companies do not move quickly. Will they consider a cheaper alternative to bluetooth?
- Is the product on track? Their press release is from November. There is a suspicious lack of information on the Cypress site. Their projected milestone was Q1'03, so they still have time.
Me, I hope Wireless USB catches on. I'd love to make wireless USB connected balls like these to use as system status indicators. Yes it is needlessly complex, but it compensates by being oddly cool.Moderator is just jealous because he can't afford a brand new HP iPaq and he know's that my comment was true. Palm SUCKS!!!!
My ultimate portable device would have the following features:
- GSM
- GPS
- MP3 player
- Upgradable OS and software
- Bluetooth
- J2ME
- Small and light
- Big color display
- Upgradable storage, ie MMC
The Neonode N1 comes pretty close.
PDAs are getting bigger, better screens ...
GPSs are getting bigger, better screens ... (for mapping)
These devices can no longer always be small. Having a single screen for several devices helps offset this fact.
"Are you on some kind of medication?"
"No"
"Well, you should be."
--Bean
Excellent! With current PDA calendar applications, you can tell it to remind you to do something at a particular time, whereas it'd be much more useful if it could remind you to do something in a particular place, or a combination of the two.
I'd like to be able to get it to remind me to do something 30 minutes after I've got home - it'd give me time to take my shoes off, sit down, and relax with a nice cup of tea before it starts to beep at me. It'd also be useful to be able to tell it to remind me to buy some milk when I walk past Tescos on my way home...
The GPS PDA is one of the first devices to contain the new DragonBall MXL (MC9328MXL), according to this.
Its ARM9-based, is 150mhz and does 150mips. Doesn't sound like much, but its only US$10.30 in "low volumes". It has an MMU so it would run linux. I'd like a cheap, small, LART style computer with some useful IO (ethernet, serial ports etc) I can run linux on and generally hack about with. This seems like an ideal CPU (shame it doesn't have integrated ethernet though).
ever try a map?
Yes. It did not beep to tell me when to turn. I could not download a route to it. It could not be updated over the web. Yeah. It sucked.
or setting your alarm clock a little sooner?
If you have to be at client A at 9:00AM, client B at noon, and client C at 3:00PM, how does setting your alarm clock sooner help you get to clients B and C on time?
How about the people who would rather have bluetooth then gps becuase they work in there city?
How about people who would rather have a socket wrench because they work in a garage? What the f*** kind of dumb-assed question is that? This device is obviously aimed at people who need GPS. Duh!
Here's a clue for you: Garmin builds GPSs. It's what they do. Complaining that Garmin included GPS rather than Bluetooth is is like being pissed off that McDonalds meal came with fries rather than socks.
i don't get it...
The price isn't all that bad, considering that you're getting most of the features of a PocketPC, and a GPS, in addition to Palm stability.
Only thing is, I wonder what the battery life is like with the color screen. I understand people liking color for the "cool" factor. But greyscale is almost as functional and has much better batter life.
The Garmin device uses a different ARM chip (the Motorola Dragonball MXL) from the Tungsten T (which uses a TI OMAP 1510). This means different sound playback hardware, and its almost certain, much clearer sound playback. The OMAP's DSP handles sound processing, and Palm installed a low-pass filter in the DSP to improve sound quality for voice recording. However, they didn't make this switchable, causing grief for music playback software. This will likely be fixed when Palm does an OS update for the device.
free shipping.
He just baited his hook and reeled you in. If the rest of you couldn't see that the parent post was tongue-in-cheek, you are going to need more than GPS and a map to survive in the big wide world:)
Wouldn't seem too hard... After all, you can make an artillery shell out of them...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
This is an iQue 3600. It looks like a Pocket PC. Now, as I think back, I recall an iPaq 3600. Is it just a coincidence, or are Palm-based devices -really- trying to emulate Pocket PC's? More on this developing story as it comes...
My Systems
You're a Luddite.
Now! Off the internet with you, back to breaking up wooden gears and steam machines.
Why would the previous posters want 802.11g and BlueTooth? Other than the obvious "because it's trendy and my new PowerBook has it" answers.
1. 802.11g uses way too much power for a handheld like this. And their is only 32MB of storage. Why is 54mbs required again?
2. Bluetooth is new and relatively unsupported. It is not a "standard" yet, as far as who uses it is concerned. BT will be like USB 1.1, unused for a long time, and then picked up more once there are better alternatives.
BT or 802.11b would be fine. BT is probably the obvious choice due to power consumption and ease of use (assign that device an IP address... ugh).
Someone watched a few too many Golden Girls reruns.
Bite my yammer.
I don't see why everyone keeps using the MSRP to bitch about something being to expensive. When was the last time you paid the MSRP for anything?
http://www.tvnav.com/ will have the iQue for $455. You can pre-order now. They are very reputable.
With a standard protocol it takes 11 bits to move one 8 bit byte, so that would give you about 19.7 kilobytes per second, and since under USB the controller can't allocate bandwidth (like FireWire), this is best case I'm guessing (couldn't find this in the article). I wouldn't want to try UT2003 over this.
I the article it stated that they were 2.4GHz devices, but only spec'ed a range of 10m (30 feet for the metrically challenged), that is not a lot of roaming range.
Lower power is good, but usually translated in to lower range, good of keyboards, mice, and such low bandwidth devices used for input/use close to your machine, but not good for surfing in another room
This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
This is slightly OT but what the hell...
Those Sony/Ericsson T68i's sure do look cool but their website is impossibly short on information. I've yet to figure out the answers to these simple questions:
1) What cellular provider supports these phones?
2) What is the average speed for Internet access?
3) When accessing the Internet through these phones, do you have to dial up first or are the packets handled by the cellular provider?
The easiest way to get shot is to carry a gun -- Atticus Finch
Not true at all, just go to San Diego and rush a cop with a gardening stake or a trowel in hand. In both such cases, the individual was shot and killed. The guy with the trowel was naked and in the middle of a major freeway (with a bunch of civilan onlookers). Someone simply carrying a gun would just be quietly arrested (unless of course a permit was involved).
If you want a gun-related sig, why not try:
"Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal." ;-)
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
This gizmo's GPS gizmo will work in Banff, AB (pop: 6 people 300 ski bunnies and a tired goat) but will not work in Anchorage, AK with a population of over a quarter of a million people!
I mean really people, there are _fifty_ states in the U.S. Not 47, not 48, but 50.
I guess I could also complain that this thing does not work in Hawaii, but
1.) I don't live there.
2.) If I did, I would have so many better things to do than care if anyone Outside knew we existed.
Pigs might fly, but don't make breast landing Weird News
Seriously, I know how frustrating it can be. Try and obtain good aerial photography or satellite imagery, not to mention Digital Elevation Models for Alaska. I work for a company doing mineral exploration here (in Alaska) and we have had to generate our own data, which is very expensive. We are preparing to offer it for sale to other companies, but compared to the small states, it is wanting.
Trimble does a rugged GPS/HPC2000 device. It's more aimed at commercial markets, but the large memory models come with 512Mb of non-volatile memory. Everything else Details at here
First, I think the 217kbps is referring to encoded data. you don't have to do async encoding on top of that. Still, I distrust any claimed maximum speed. We'll see...
Second, USB does have isochronous transfers for guaranteed bandwidth applications (like speakers and video cameras). I don't think 1.0 had it, maybe it crept in at 1.1? Still, at only 217kbps the wireless isn't going to do speakers or video well, not the target.
Third, short range. Yes! That is because they are low powered. Bandwidth, range, and power consumption are tied together by physics. You can play with the constants by using different modulation schemes, but ultimately more bandwidth or range is going to take more power.
You can't take my 802.11 systems away. I'm not suggesting that wireless USB or bluetooth would ever replace those. Heck, even 11mbps inspires me to walk upstairs and plug in my 100mbit wire for some operations.
Wireless USB can be a cheap addition to any computer ($10?) and allow me to get rid of my keyboard and mouse wires plus let all of my gadgets communicate with my digital hub. I look forward to having computers have "2 USB ports plus wireless USB" as a standard feature.
I agree it's not so useful for typical PDA applications. This isn't one of those typical applications.
Did you know that there is only one product by one manufacturer if you're looking for an aftermarket car stereo that has NAV/DVD/Radio?
Check out this installation of the Pioneer NAV-SYS900DVD
I plan to put one into my Envoy.
Live web cams
Ever dropped one and have the screen crack? For at least one vendor (Handspring) it was cheaper for me to get a new one, than to have one "repaired".
Is this not true? Are there problems at high latitudes? I've never used GPS above about |55| degrees or so...
I'll give that to you... with one small caveat. If you own a gazeteer/map that will allow you to make sense of the UTM or lat/long coordinates and/or any small visual clues you get from your consumer grade GPS... then chances are, you already knew where you were on your map in the first place
"John... we just have to walk NE about 900 Meters, we'll be at the hotel room in no time!"
"gorilla (36491)... we're in Manhattan... how do you suppose we'll do that?"
You have the map, right? (discussed earlier) Write that info down.
Really? What were your findings? Did you adjust your speed by the +/- .13 MPH and optimize your road trip? (more to the point... did you drive the speed limit the whole time!?!? James Dean, you're not.
You realize, of course, that we'll have no need for this function once america's engineers can finally master the "Car-Odometer"... (no longer in the realm of science fiction! We'll have it in the next dozen years, I have it on good authority).
(Relax... I own a GPS, too... they're great fun. But no need to justify your purchase in this way :)
the most mysterious thing you'll see today
Its from the AMERICAN classic "To Kill a Mocking Bird", Atticus Finch is the lawyer at the centre of the book, and is actually the best shot in town. His point is that if you go into a room of angry people with a gun then they you are more likely to get shot than facing them as an unarmed man.
My quote is from a classic of literature, which member of the NRA came up with yours ?
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
With all the discussion about having more memory, it would be interesting if Garmin utilized their own proprietary memory stick and made it portable between this and their other GPS units. For instance, it would be a godsend if I could load up the Washington DC maps into my 128MB memory stick, use stick in my Streetpilot III for talking directions to a central parking area, then move the stick to a handheld, and have the handheld play audio clips narrating the history behind the monument I'm looking at (since it knows where I'm standing).
I've been waiting for something like that for a LONG time.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Palms do not need even 32mb of memory - this only has that much due to its GPS capability, presumably. Palms started off with 2mb of memory, and even then they coped. Now, they have 8mb or 16mb, usually, plus an expansion card.
Presumably, you use Pocket PC? Pocket PC, as did its Windows CE predecessor, eats memory for breakfast. Palm does not, even with the plethora of stored maps that presumably come with this device.
Thought I'd let you know...
Andy
andy_mobile@tiscali.co.uk
Except for Great Britain. According to ISO 9166 and Internet reality
Great Britain's toplevel domain should be _gb_. Instead, Great Britain
and Nortern Ireland (the United Kingdom) use the toplevel domain _uk_.
They drive on the wrong side of the road, too.
-- PERL book (or DNS and BIND book)
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...