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Segway Banned In San Francisco
bhsurfer writes "The city of San Francisco has banned the Segway [CNN.com] from it's sidewalks before they've even arrived. Apparently Santa Cruz, Oakland and San Mateo are considering a ban as well. What a bunch of spoilsports...or are they? Any thoughts on this?" According to the article, hiring high-powered lobbyists may have backfired. but the city claims safety concerns are behind the decision.
before they have any testing or real user experience on which to base their decisions.
Otherwise they are full of bullshit. One of the reasons they gave for banning it was that it weighs 70 pounds and goes 12 mph, meaning the device could cause injury to a pedestrian.
Are they going to ban skateboards, roller blades, and inline electric scooters as well? Seaways are supposed to be safer then these things.
Bleh, fucking lame ass government stifling innovation because of imagined phantoms. Lets keep things exactly the way they are, and then we don't have to worry about the unknown, nothing to fear (except for car crashes...)
I hate this preemptive rulemaking bullshit. If something causes a problem out of proportion to it's benefit then ban it. Certainly they shouldn't be banned until they have been shown to be dangerous!
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Letting people drive 30MPH on the sidewalk is ridiculous! If it's a vehicle, it should be in the road, not on the sidewalk -- like bicycles are. "Entirely new technology" my ass.
Think of it this way: in ten years time, what will have more fatalities per machine on the road, the Segway or the car?
Judging from everything I've read about the Segway, it'll be the car, of course. So why don't they ban cars in San Francisco, too? Because use of cars is too widespread, and the public would be outraged if you tried to take them away.
If the Segway's all the hype suggests, then maybe in years hence the new machine will become as entrenched in daily life as the car (...assuming San Fran doesn't become a national trendsetter on the issue, and kill the Segway before it's given a chance). Until then you can expect this sort of thing. Just imagine how many people are going to worry about the first supersonic turbo-boostered flying rocket cars, you know?
youre not supposed to ride bikes on sidewalks! youre supposed to ride them in the street!
as for the segway, i think they should wait for it to be a problem before wasting their time banning it....i mean, how many of these things did they anticipate being on the sidewalks anyway?
Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
-Dr. Weird
Sidewalks (ok, I can speak USA) are for walking. As a bicycle rider I sometimes ride there if the road is untenable. People wander about a lot. They even dart from left to right in a random fashion. This is their right, if you ask me. And I go to great lengths to make sure I avoid them - they have the rights, not me. A Segway occupies much the same area as a bicycle (it's a bit shorter) but I do not believe it would be as good at avoiding people (it can't lean, though it turns very well). I agree with San Francisco. Keep the sidewalks free for pedestrians - SF is one of the few cities where people actually still walk - let's not threaten their sanctuary!
"Cats like plain crisps"
Bicycles can't be on the sidewalks, why should segways be an exceptions. It's like a bicycle for lazy yuppies, and I'd pretty annoyed if one of those started whizzing near me on San Francisco streets and I'd have to dodge out of it's way. However, I would be equally annoyed to waste my weekend peeling the remains of a segway rider off my car's grill. I guess people will have to learn courtesy.
The Segways should have to adhere to the same rules that bikes do. Bikes aren't allowed on the sidewalk either. They have to follow many of the laws that cars do. This includes riding in the street, going with the flow of traffic. So, why can't the Segways use the bike lane (or curb area) too?
I hope they banned bikes on their sidewalks too...
Actually, most major metropolitan cities do have laws against riding bikes on sidewalks.
I live in Philadelphia, and here it is indeed against the law to ride your bike on the sidewalk. In fact, I've seen several people get ticketed by the police for violating that law. If you go to center city Philadelphia, you will see bike lanes on the sides of the streets, next to the car lanes.
I would have no problem seeing Segways in bike lanes, but on the sidewalk? No way. They are equally as dangerous as bikes, if not more so (Segways don't have brakes).
Saw a Segway friday evening in Portland OR.
The operator was driving down the street at night.
No lights. No reflectors. Grey vehicle out in traffic and no helmet on operator.
I'd ban the damned things too.
But you don't have to go that fast. Most cars have top speeds well in excess of 100mph...so does that mean we have to ban cars from the street? No. It means we put restrictions on speed, or 'Speed Limits'. Just let Segway users recieve tickets if caught speeding. Have a registration system so that the people couldn't get away with not paying. Anything. Just not an ignorant ban before any interesting injuries even have the possibility to occur.
We now have confirmed reports from an informed Orange County minister that Ethel is still an active communist.
Well as i see it it makes perfect sense. I live in a crowded city as well and for me it is obvious that putting any kind of machine on the sidewalk would be dangerous at least for some, would cause congestions and havoc.
So the only machines allowed are for people that could not move around if it wasnt for machines, because it would be cruel to render them unable to get out of their homes. But fortunately the numbers of the disabled are not large enough to cause problems.
I would not really mind if it took me axtra 5 minutes to get to the subway, if it was on the account of crowd caused by a disabled person on a wheelchair. But if it was caused by some guy who was too lazy to walk, then i would be mad.
My biggest question is where do you put them once you're finished travelling? With cars you park them, with bikes, you can lock them in bike racks, but there is zero infrastructure in place to secure your Segway.
What's the point in taking a Segway somewhere if you can't lock it down. This means you couldn't take it to go shopping, seeing a movie, go to the doctor's, go to class, etc. You might be able to take it to work and keep the Segway in your office... if you have space. That's about it... it doesn't have any other practical use.
I would prefer rollerblades to the Segway any day, since they are small and portable.
Yeah, no kidding. Frankly, I think that's the heart of the matter. The rest is just political rhetoric.
I'm no fan of the Segway. I think it's pretty stupid, and will never be anything more than a toy. But when I read about it being banned in San Francisco, one thought came to my mind -- "typical!"
Personally, I hate all the little punk speed freaks begging for money all over the city. But I don't propose banning skateboards, which I'm sure pose a greater threat to pedestrians.
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
I can understand this happening in SF, where you can't walk slowly without touching shoulders with everyone. On a large moving platform with handlebars, you're just begging for injuries and lawsuits and whatnot.
Oakland is a bit less crazy, same with Santa Cruz, and San Mateo is just silly (hey we're a big city too! give us some press!)
Anyway, there are definitly areas of all these cities where I'd love to be moving a bit faster, as well as areas where everyone should be walking. Bikes, rollerblades, skateboards, mopeds, etc should be banned by an area-by-area basis.
How about Walking-Only zones (handicapped excepted) in certain areas as opposed to shooting things down individually before they are even being shipped....geez
On the sidewalk in urban areas, you can (IANAL, so this is just based on experience and what I've known cops to give you a talking-to for) ride skates (inline or the older non-trendy kind), non-powered Razor(TM)-type scooters and your Nike Air Force Ones. Yea, you can stop down the sidewalk in your... Ugh, I wish I could get that song out of my head.
The problem I see the Segway having is the same problem Go-peds have. You can't ride go-peds on the sidewalk. You can't ride them in the street either, most of them lack the equipment and certification required to make them street legal.
The smallest gas powered (as in engine displacement) street legal vehicle is a 49.9cc moped/scooter. If you take a look at one, you'll notice it has DOT approved lighting, turn and brake signals. I'm sure if the Segway was modified to be street legal, it could be driven on the street, but ask anyone who has driven a moped (usually with a top speed of about 30MPH) what it's like having people not see you and passing you going 10-25MPH faster than you in most cases. If the Segway has a top speed of 12MPH and is less visible than a biycle, sharing the road with cars would be nothing short of suicide.
As others have said many times before (especially those who ride 49.9cc mopeds/scooters), there needs to be a dedicated lane for low-speed powered vehicles on roadways. Mixing low-speed vehicles with cars and trucks is just as dangerous as mixing low-speed vehicles with pedestrians.
Issues like these make me glad I'm old enough to have a driver's licence and just drive a car.
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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
This is mostly true, but note that it's not universally true that bicycles are banned from sidewalks; in the US this is usually a matter for local governments (though there may also be a few states with such bans, I'm not sure).
Certainly it's true that, whatever the law says, people on vehicles with nonzero stopping distances (like bicycles) are better off riding with traffic rather than riding on the sidewalks.
--Bruce F.
" I don't get where it fits in, other than some lazy asses and maybe a heavy duty one for delivering mail along the boardwalk."
Isn't SF known for it's hills? How about the elderly, infirm, handi-capped, disabled or injured? How about those who already make a living walking all day?
(tig)
Ignorance and prejudice and fear
Walk hand in hand
There is also the whole pro-walking thing which lobbied pretty hard against it. They believe this device would cause everyone to get fat.
All other factors aside, these are the people that make absolutely burn with anger. These idiotic health nazis who think they have the right to tell everyone else how to live their life. It's none of their fucking business if someone wants to use motored transportation, even if that causes "everyone to get fat". These are the same absolute imbeciles who whine about the fat content of foods and who want to sue fast food places.
I wish these people would just go live their life of denial and leave the rest of us alone.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
If, for any reason, you feel compelled to get off the street and on to the sidewalk, you have every right to do so, but then you must get off your bike and walk it. Not ride slowly, not ride fast, not ride at all, walk, just like the last 4 letters of the word sidewalk. Hope this helps.
There is also the whole pro-walking thing which lobbied pretty hard against it. They believe this device would cause everyone to get fat.
Fat? Fat? What they hell are the talking about? Most US citzen's are obese if not outright fat. If they have a concern is that people would get FATTER. Never mind that they live 10 minutes from work.
I would more likely expect people to be whipping a Segway out the back of their SUV, so that they would not have to waddle the half-block to the front entrance avoiding any pretense of exercising.
No, you got it all right. Years ago, when they were spouting, "Cities will be redesigned around this invention!" we thought that it would be so great, that the cost of redesigning a city was well worth it. What they actually meant, was that it has no place in today's cities. Doh!
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood
Umm, so they only run on bio-fuels such as ethanol or vegetable oil? Oh, they are electric? So they can only be re-charged from solar or hydro-power?
Sorry, electric != enviro-friendly. It can be, but not always. Most times, electricity is just shifting the polution some where else.
Democracy isn't about no one telling you what to do. It's about everyone telling you what to do.
Allowing small powered vehicles on sidewalks is a real issue. The Segway isn't the only contender. What about electric-powered scooters, which far outnumber Segways? What about powered shopping carts, like you see in some stores? What about all those golf-cart type devices sold to the elderly? Where do you draw the line?
Skateboarders aren't usually a problem because bad skaters wipe themselves out before they hit others.
"hiring high-powered lobbyists may have backfired."
Yes well when the politicians look at how much they spent on the lobbyists (shirtloads)
and compare that with how much they spent on bribes *cough* campaign contributions (none?)
it doesn't take an MBA (like George W's dad bought for him) to work out what you need to do;
You stiff the berk with the gall to fail to bribe you *at*all* and then spent $$$ big to hire an outfit to harass you (erm 'lobbyist: paid bribe giver and harasser').
The inventors of the seqway may be geniuses but they don't understand politics.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
Anybody who ever worked an honest day in their life would certainly blanch at the thought of blowing $5,000 on a toy that makes you look like a clueless dork, and turns you into a threat to 90-year-old grandmothers on their way to buy groceries.
I don't disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm sure people said precisely the same thing when the "horseless carriage" was introduced....
WTF is up with the lame comments along the line of "I can't believe they're doing this!" I get exactly what San Francisco city officials are doing... look at this word:
Sidewalk
no no no... go back and look at my emphasis. SideWALK.
The name alone characterizes itself as a separate place for pedestrians to move about a city or town block. The last time I checked, pedestrians != motorists.
Since Segway comes with speed governors, it would be just as simple to mandate they be dialed down to their slowest setting until there was more experience with it. When cars were introduced, the same thing happened. Eventually, when people understand the issues, reasonable accomodations can be made.
( I've been considering a bumper sticker campaign where we would covertly place "Gas Guzzler" bumper stickers on SUVs wherever they are parked. Hell, forget bumber stickers - paste that shit on their windshield!! )
But back to the topic - Ban the cars and let the Segwey roll - sure it'll be a problem when there are just a few people with them on the street and most every one else is on foot - but when we all have em -- and you could trade in your SUV for like 10 of em! and since we know SUV owners are so civicly minded they would be happy to donate their extra segweii (what's the correct plural form anyway?) Personally I'd love to see Manhattan (where I live) to be closed to private automobiles and have the street filled with segweii
as far as the cold postal carriers - they should build a little shell around the segwey to make it like a Dalek from Dr.Who.
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Special Interest Group SIG -- sig^2
Talk is cheap. Supply exceeds demand.
Now wait till WangCo makes a $150 knock off with turbo, wheel spikes, flashing LEDs and a subwoofer, and a bunch of drunk teenagers get them. No accidents?
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
I'd be happy to ride my bike on the street instead of the sidewalk. I don't want to deal with walkers - Unfortunately, 2 things need to change to make this feasible:
1) F***ing drivers need to know that bicycles belong on the road. I have been sworn at more times than I care to count by drivers passing me (or swerving around - see #2).
2) Shoulders. They're good. It's bad for bikers when shoulders don't exist. I don't WANT to ride in the middle of traffic - it's easy for a car to maintain 35mph, but it's hard for me!
In the meantime, I will only ride on the road when the sidewalk is LESS safe (for me or re: pedestrians) or when there's NO sidewalk. (I guess that also makes it less safe..)
Have you read the Moderation Guidelines Addendum?
Too bad it "pisses you off", but that's your problem. It's your own ignorance and "hipocrasy" you should work on. I have a *very* close relative who barely escaped with his life from a situation where the "traditionally privileged" had been promoted as source of everyone's problems often enough that a mob decided that it was time for "justice" (that means violence against the scapegoated minority), yet you think it "causes little harm".
Unlike you, I don't find it any more acceptable for a liberal to spout class warfare vitriol than for a white supremacist to spout racist drivel.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
I've seen some videos of very natural, fluid, and controlled motions of Segway riders which convinced me that Segway is safe in the hands of responsible drivers. This AVI clip is an example. (I copied it from someone else's collection of Segway pictures and videos.)
IMO, a common misconception of the Segway is that the vehicle will turn into an uncontrolled launched projectile, like a skateboard in the event of an accident. While there's no denying that the Segway weight 70 lbs., it's also true that it has onboard logic which acts to immediately slow down the device. A "dead man stop", if you will.
The accelerate/decelerate function is also more directly coupled to the driver -- there's less of a reaction time to initiate braking. You just shift your weight, instead of having to drop your foot to the ground (skateboard), or lifting and wrapping your fingers around braking handle (bike), or stepping on a brake pedal (car).
A running person does not have full and continuous contact with the ground to maneuver him. Of course, he makes up for it by being able to "crab leg" a bit sideways when needed.
However, I do understand why this is banned. It's too wide and too fast, and would cause absolute chaos if it became popular on the streets of any big city. This is a good move, and San Francisco is solving a problem before it even happened.
Berto