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Microsoft Loses Showdown in Houston
An anonymous reader writes "It seems the city of Houston has decided against using Microsoft software. It really is amazing how much it costs to use (and maintain) software. I can't help but wonder if this will become a trend." Turns out they decided on the relativly unknown SimDesk suite, which has nothing to do with The Sims, sadly. Many, many posts about this. In additional news seldo writes "There's an interesting interview on News.Com with Peter Houston. He discusses Microsoft's changing attitude in competing with Linux -- no longer calling it a "cancer" but instead promoting the advantages of Windows."
As goes Peru, so goes the world......
Think about it. For the first time in a decade, what with all the city and national governments giving the dirty bird to Microsoft in favor of Linux or other alternatives, Redmond has finally realized that it has real competition again. Better, Microsoft can't 'embrace and extend' this competition without a significant alteration of their core business plan.
This means that, for the foreseeable future, MS users will be getting a product that will be the result of a pricewar with Free software, will have features that compete with OSS features, and will have a level of quality that attempts to approach OSS quality.
I don't think that Microsoft will belly up any time soon, regardless of how wonderful that would be. I do see Windows getting very good in the near future since quality and ease of use are the only ways it has left to compete with Linux.
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
SimDesk
5450 Northwest Central, Suite 300
Houston, Texas 77092
Houston Area Phone: 713.690.6016
Toll-free Phone: 866.746.3375 (866-SimDesk)
Plus they've GOT to be using MS technology in the SimDesk applications themselves. At least they have Palm versions too.
I'm trying to figure out what the big advantage of using SimDesk would be vs. just installing Office and using Windows? Other than giving MS the finger. I guess it must just be the price difference, they probably got a great deal from the Houston based company.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
I found the last comment in his interview interesting:
"Integration" is the lever that MS uses to generate revenue. Customers are becoming increasingly aware of this and are assessing its value as best they can (given that they've lived in the MS Matrix monoculture for so long.)
Quoting from the Financial Times article that is another Slashdot story, too,
"Provided by the management for your protection."
First, they ignore you.
Then, they laugh at you.
Then, they fight you.
Then you win.
It's not as funny as:
Step 1. Create Gcc.
Step 2. Create Linux kernel.
Step 3. ???
Step 4. World Domination!!
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
He discusses Microsoft's changing attitude in competing with Linux -- no longer calling it a "cancer" but instead promoting the advantages of Windows.
3) then you win.
It's starting to look like the US recession will be one of the best things to happen to the Open-Source movement.
No artist tolerates reality. -- Nietzsche
If you look at the CEO's bio, he's some Houston good-ol boy who made a billion at BFI (trash collection), and now is dabbling in high tech.
Since everything in Texas is controlled by good ol boys, I'm sure the decision to use this software was anything but objective.
This means that, for the foreseeable future, MS users will be getting a product that will be the result of a pricewar with Free software, will have features that compete with OSS features, and will have a level of quality that attempts to approach OSS quality.
Have a look at simdesk.com - it's covered in words like "proprietary" and "patented". Houston's decision is neither particularly good nor bad for OSS.
I'm glad they told Microsoft to F??? off! But to choose Simdesk instead? Sounds like someone went with the local guy since Simdesk is out of Houston I believe I read. They would have been much better off going with Open Office or even Corel.
I'm not seeing anything at the web site that says this is OSS?
;) Wonder if SimDesk is getting any tax breaks from Houston?
They don't need to embrace and extend this software because they already HAVE software that does everything this purports to do, the MS Office Suite. This is just a clone of Office, nothing innovative, I can't download the source, heck I can't even get a price list off of their web site.
I think this is just a case of price. The city of Houston got a great deal from a Houston based company. What's it called when a city practices nepotism, except without the relatives? Oh yeah, politics.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
From the SimExplorer page on the SimDesk site:
Several patents have been filed for SimExplorer, including a recycle bin available on the Internet. SimExplorer moves deleted data to a virtual recycle bin and allows users to recover or restore that data if it was deleted by mistake. Previously, this functionality was only available on Microsoft© platforms: SimExplorer now makes it possible on all computer platforms.
Sorry, but it's already out there for multiple platforms. All they did was put it behind the familiar "Recycle bin" interface. This isn't so different from the Amazon one-click patent.
"I can't help but wonder if this will become a trend."
:) But maybe now we'll see how MS reacts to competition when it can't just stamp it out. My guess is they'll run around like decapitated chickens for another few months at least.
I think it's safe to say this is already a trend, what with all the stories we've seen here in the last few months. Hopefully a trend that will become more and more widespread as the truth gets out there.
"Microsoft's changing attitude in competing with Linux -- no longer calling it a "cancer" but instead promoting the advantages of Windows."
Well it looks like Microsoft is finally catching onto the idea that it can't compete with Linux using their normal "FUD" tactics. Of course, touting the *cough*advantages*cough* of Windows may not be such a winning solution either.
Think about it. For the first time in a decade, what with all the city and national governments giving the dirty bird to Microsoft in favor of Linux or other alternatives, Redmond has finally realized that it has real competition again.
Unfortunately I have to post this as an AC but I'm speaking as one of the top geeks in a large place of work (~6,000 employees). We're not upgrading to XP and we're tesing a large group of people (~200) on Linux and OpenOffice on machines we've had in storage for a year. Thus far there have been no real technical problems although the user education has been a bit of work. Once they are familiar with an X desktop they spend most of their time using email and "Office" anyhow.
We love it, we love the price and we love the excellent support we get from newsgroups and FAQs/docs.
The actual meat of the story is interesting, an a hopeful sign, but so is the lead paragraph. It presents Microsoft as bullying it's clients into agreeing to it's terms.
Nothing new there, but when this is the tone taken by mainstream media, and seen as so non-controversial that it's mentioned and then passed over, then Microsoft have already lost their key battle. Their marketing depends on them being seen as the safe option. If they are seen as the problem, then (as here) people will go looking for solutions.
From the interview with Peter Houston:
I still believe Linux is an extension of the Unix paradigm. It's a command-line-focused approach that's not particularly designed to be user friendly. The Windows approach is very different.
This kind of shows how clueless Microsoft really is about competing with Linux. Lest anyone forget that Windows was nothing more than a extension of a command-line-focused operating system called MS-DOS that wasn't particularly use friendly? Microsoft just started to hide the command-line with Windows 95. The same is happening with Linux, as it gains more acceptance. More and more tools are being developed that eliminate the need for command-line work.
True, any distro of Linux isn't quite at the XP level not needing to use the command-line, but it's starting to head in that direction. And if more and more companies and, more importantly, governments start to actively look at switching, there will be a big boom in eliminating the command-lind dependence.
I've run into OpenOfficeMS Office export and import problems even with plain Word letters, so I can't imagine a complex spreadsheet with macros will work very well.
The owls are not what they seem
Internet Printing:
With SimPrinter, any computer can print to any printer connected to the Internet. This patented process works like this: User A is viewing a file in his office and needs to print it to his client's office for his client to sign. He selects a printer connected to a computer in his client's office. The mainframe computer at the Service Provider then spools the file to the computer in the client's office and instructs the printer there to print the data. Once the printing is complete, the computer in the client's office notifies the mainframe. The mainframe in turn notifies the user in User A's office.
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
After reading all this, it sounds like Houstin opted for SimDesk only because they felt trapped by Microsoft licensing issues.
It's not clear to me they will save money, although it does seem clear that by doing this they can at least quantify the amount of money they need to spend. I wonder if these kinds of MS sales tactics can be argued as entrapment or bait & switch? Customers shouldn't need to feel like they must pay millions to get MS off their back, especially when the amount involved is in dispute.
A greater concern for Houstin is where the data will be stored. It's not clear from the website or the marketing blurbs if the SimDesk apps drop documents locally or remotely to the SimDesk server. At a minimum, the patent-pending Trashbin is purported to be remote - which would give you access to this content from anywhere. I sure hope this system is secure!
Of course, the fact that they are looking to partner with Unisys is reason enough to be concerned. Remember GIF? TBPH, Microsoft doesn't look like a bad alternative here -- if anything this should be a wakeup call for MS that license audits need to be approached with extreme caution.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
I think it depends what you're doing. If you're sending information to customers, then simply export your OpenOffice docs to PDF. You should be doing this anyway, even if you're using MS Word, because the PDF is the only way to ensure your document will be delivered properly. Heck, even MS Word isn't compatible with MS Word!
If you need to collaborate, then encourage everyone on the team to either adopt an open standard (HTML, RDF, etc.) or get them onboard with OO.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
Given the small budgets, byzantine approval processes, and both political and bureaucratic stumbling blocks that affect civic IT departments (and I sadly speak from experience), the most effective place to get cost savings is at the client side.
Only a very few people at the civic level need independent workstations, and the cost of support per user is higher than that of private-sector firms of comparable size. Ripping out the PCs and replacing them with Sun Rays or Wyse terms is a bright solution for cash-strapped cities. However, don't confuse this with a move to open source: as has been pointed out above, it's a fallacy to think that "proprietary" is synonymous with "Microsoft."
"Freedom is kind of a hobby with me, and I have disposable income that I'll spend to find out how to get people more."
1. They don't know about OSS and Free Software
2. The do know about OSS and Free Software
Now, the people in group 1 tend to do nothing about it, and carry on getting shafted by MS. The people in group 2 tend to think "Yeah, all this new licensing is gonna cripple us. Time to look elsewhere". And end up going down the OSS/Free route. The West Yorkshire Police did it.
So, what made these guys go down this odd, obscure, proprietary route with a company which seems to saddle all their technology with proprietaryness and software patentyness?
Like tinyurl, but one letter less! http://qurl.co.uk/
I disagree. If everybody was honest, you'd be right. But that's not the case.
Microsoft has spent years and years outright lying, cheating, and stealing, in order to come to market dominance and stay there. (If you don't believe me, go ahead and review the anti-trust court cases.)
So *any* win for non-MS companies, even proprietary ones, is good. It will help mature the industry, and make it less lopsided. I'm not interested in the complete destruction of MS - that'd probably end up being just as bad as what we have now; a monoculture.
But these *are* wins. Microsoft has less money in its pockets to lie about FOSS, for instance. It has less clout to twist people's arms.
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Those are probably Win32 apps!
Dodgy patents aside, these guys seem to have a solid suite of apps there. The big attractiveness of ASP solutions to large companies is that the costs for this kind of software boils down to a very small (in comparison to MS software) monthly fee.
They don't have to worry about upgrades or patches, or support, the apps will work just fine.
Coupled with very strict desktop computer policies, they shouldn't need many sysadmins/desktop support heads at all. Just people to build new machines and replace broken mice.
It's very cost effective.
Of course, there is nothing stopping the Open Source community from coming out with something like this.
We have most of the apps. We know linux can do the automatic application delivery. All we need to do is kill Exchange and we're home and hosed.
Does anyone know of any Exchange server killers under an Open Source license?
This is the "Hailstorm" issue all over again. But it does have certian advantanges for poor folk who don't own their own systems, which was one of the reasons Houston starting looking at it. An out of work homeless person can put his resume on it, and then access his resume later from any other system he manages to get access too. He doesn't have to haul a floppy around with him out in the elements where he lives. If you read the article, it was tried out in public libraries as a way to "bridge the digital divide", and apparently was wildly successful.
Due to the fact that SimDesk holds your data hostage, they can probably offer a very different pricing structure than traditional software vendors. They can charge peanuts for the clients, and then keep charging you access fees for the server. Think of it as the first MMOS (Massively-Multiplayer Office Suite)
There was local news coverage here in Houston on the SimDesk issue a while back, that went into some more interesting details. Of course first off, it was primarily chosen as a user interface for public-access computer in public libraries and whatnot. I don't think it was chosen for actual city computers, but for the computers they let the technology-less use at the libraries so they can surf and have email and type resumes, basically.
More importantly, there was a big uproar in Houston over how SimDesk got the contract. Apparently whoever owns SimDesk has some insider relations of some sort to the people making the decisions, and there was absolutely no bid process at all (no other local competition, no Microsoft, etc... ). Basically somebody's brother got the contract, and because it flies in MS face it made the news here as a big MS letdown. MS didn't stand a chance no matter who they are.
11*43+456^2
I hate to say it but that was a much better written article than I expected. City politics, threats by Microsoft, that article had everything!
I was disappointed about the lack of OSS but hell at least people are out there proving there's a choice in software. System and network administrator's jobs are going to be FUN in the years ahead. People will have to know more than Wintel to get a job.
This guy is way out there
Why go Open Source when you can funnel millions of taxpayer's dollars to somebody's brother-in-law, so they can kick it back to you. They're based in Houston and the COO is the son of the CEO. The whole thing stinks. Remember, this is the city that bought you Enron.
They save a whopping $1.6 million, and in return they get software that doesn't do spreadsheets, presentations, or small databases. On top of that, all they need is a 100% broadband connection on every machine! Wow! What a deal! Where do I sign up?? I mean, this thing has all of the functionality of WordPad, with the added requirement of a broadband connection! Woo hoo! Who thought of such a great product?
/. should post that, huh?
SimDesk isn't perfect. It lacks many sophisticated features of Office, such as the ability to customize spreadsheets, do slide presentations or work databases. The glaring shortfall: It has no track record, making it risky for companies hesitant to bet on unproven technology.
USA Today. Yeah, that's a great place to get good quality tech news. I think that the Enquirer has a good story about Steve Ballmer being Bill Gate's alien baby. Maybe
To set the facts straight, simdesk was selected by bid rigging and conflict of interest of a software contract in Houston.
It's about to be thrown out and legal action pursued against the IT contractor.
The funny thing is that Mayor Lee P. Brown has overspent all of the reserve funds in Houston so that any 'savings' from non-MS software will be much more than wasted on higher government spending. This hits everyone regressivly since all of the costs are added to each homeowner's property tax and water bill. This applies to renters since rent is based on direct taxes and water costs.
The reason for the overspending is that Mayor Lee P. Brown wanted to fund/back several downtown sports stadiums (baseball, football, and basketball).
It's very funny how these private enterprises (sports teams) get public funding of their businesses. A double standard since all of them break even (baseball) on their own or make a good profit (basketball and football).
This all ties into the 300+ million 2 mile light rail project which goes from one sports stadium to another. Ridership on the bus line for this route is under 150 people a day. This project was sold as a way to revitalize that area of town. Funny how the sports stadium built in the early 1960s in the same area was sold as a way to revitalize that part of town.
It is almost like a burecrat/politician wants to accomplish some big $$ government project so that they can go on to a job with another city with more pay and do the same thing again.
I am always amazed at how generous liberal politicians are with the taxpayer's money.
The USA Today article really glosses over the political battle on this issue and the good reasons for that battle. Many people in Houston are actually quite angry about the adoption of SimDesk, and it has nothing to do with pro-Microsoft bias or SimDesk's "unproven track record" thing.
This timeline would claim Houston spent $42,000 marketing a possible SimDesk contract before the proposal was even requested. This article suggests the City's CIO "had decided on that vendor before the city's mandatory bidding process had even started." I'll leave it as an excercise to the reader to google for more information, but my point is that this is a much more significant issue than USA Today suggests in the article.
I'm as happy about my city using non-monopoly software as the next guy, but I think in this instance there's a strong likelihood that the SimDesk contract was awarded in a non-competitive environment anyway. Surely this is not the way any of us want alternatives to MSFT to be chosen.
Don't get excited guys. This is just Texas politics as usual. Doesn't it seem odd that the CITY OF HOUSTON chose a software product from a HOUSTON ENTREPRENEUR. This is how things is done down in 'good ole boy' Texas.
Think Ross Perot and his software billions.
Think G.W and the whole Enron fiasco.
While I won't comment on the merits of SimOffice, it may in fact be a viable windows alternative, this deal was as much motivated (if not more so) by Texas backroom dealing as it was by technical merit.
"Ned, I wouldn't worry too much about this contract. Seems to me I've already got my boys committed elsewhere. You be sure and thank Maisie for this fine pie."
All your base are belong to us!
Working for the houston civic authority doing IT support, I can tell you that many of us are severly displeased with this decision. It boiled down to the 'old boy' network whent he choice was made for SimDesk, and many of us openly suspect a rash of kickbacks in this lowball bid win.
Almost all of us are MS certified types (I have my MCSE), and a few of us use linux at home or as web servers for some of our intranet infrastructure. The running gag is that the change over in hardware in terms of on site servers and bandwith enhancements will cost us more than three times our current agreement with MS for our existing systems. MS had lowballed too, offering us a very attractive licensing and support package that was not only reasonable (by MS standards), but significantly less than their 'going rate' packages.
Alternatives in using pure *nix were also presented, some rather attractive on the face of it, but ultimately they were rejected for training and hardware costs, as well as for the fact that they are not very well known or supported in the kind of environment we have going on here in Houston. Over half of our PCs would have had some kind of driver problem, more than 2/3rds of our existing software and DB systems would have been rendered incompatible, an worse still there were no alternatives for some of our vital statistics and infrastructure support apps. A wash.
This whole thing has us more than a little upset, and some of us laughing as we learn more about SimDesk. It's bandwith intensive, and many of our outlying and important network nodes are on less than a typical home broadband connection (with up to 50 user machines and servers!).
Don't believe everything you read... it wasn't a rejection of MS because it is MS, but rather an old boy deal done by friends and mutal friends.
So? Quite a few people have absolutely no interest in complex spreadsheet macros: giving, recieving or creating. You're simply describing an artifical problem.
This is simply another example of 95% of people being disinterested in 95% of msoffice features.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Yeah, it's competition for Microsoft and face it, Microsoft is the monolithic dinosaur with an aging product line. SimDesk, whatever you want to say about them, is the fleet of foot furry little rascal which is prepared for the coming ice age.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Yeah, it's big, monolithic, and evil, but what gives Microsoft the right to threaten an "audit and penalties?"
I mean, if Microsoft showed up at my door (if I were a corporation) and said "We're coming in to inspect your computers," why not just say "Go to hell!"
Does anyone know what the Microsoft audit process is, and how they enforce these penalties?
I guess that this makes Houston the first official SimCity now othat they have chosen to use the SimDesk software? Soon we will see aliens invading, fires, floods, and earthquakes all happening in the city of Houston as stressed city workers press the 'Disaster' button over and over...
[Something witty and intelligent should have appeared here.]
{Traicovn}
This decision had nothing to do with the fact that Windows is too expensive but with the fact that city Houston is too corrupt. I can't believe that choosing a small company's, closed proprietary solution over a large company's closed proprietary solution had anything to do with cost or for that matter quality. At least M$ will be around five years from now, though probably forcing users to upgrade to the latest greatest version, which doesn't matter since the biggest selling point of SimDesk is that it looks like M$ and can read M$ files. Anyhow I've been around the block in Houston a few times and doing business here is all about who you know, and I don't mean it in the greasy salesperson networking sort of way. Houston is about nepotism, greasing palms, and paying people off. Dig around a little and you'll find a relative, lover, or crony of someone in Houston city government calling the shots at SimDesk.
I am a virus, put me in your
Hmm, actually that would be Piper, the guy who initiated the move from Microsoft:
This is hardly the type of case that one would want to use a poster-child for open source. Particularly as it appears that Sim desk is actually closed source and that this story is yet another bash Microsoft for any reason at all story. You don't think that maybe some of the slashdot editors are getting paid by a Microsoft competitor or something?Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
The Chairman and CEO of SimDesk, Mr. Waters, is "responsible for the strategic direction and management of SimDesk".
Mr Waters was founding chairman and CEO of Browning-Ferris Industries, Inc. (BFI) and served BFI from 1969 until 1997, when BFI was sold to Allied Waste for $9 billion in cash. During the 1980s, BFI pleaded guilty to charges of price fixing. More details:
They would seem to have the makings of a worthy successor to Microsoft.
the computarded of this world, have big dreams, and big mouths, but when it boils down to it, they could all be on PII 333 mhz machines and not know the difference. they just want to type emails or documents and surf the net.
learning anything more would upset their days (learning bad, stupid good mentality) and perhaps make it possible for them to do more work at work. they say, I WANT THE STARS AND THE MOON, but would settle for a trip to the end of the hallway for some coffee in a heartbeat.
ok, there is a point in the rant. X desktop + mozilla + OpenOffice is more than enough these days.
anyhow, m$ is trying to convince the world of the one thing everyone knows is not true. that they could possibly compete on price, quality or up time.
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
Oh please. Anyone with a little ingenuity can solve this problem. First, you can configure office so that the default file format is RTF. RTF supports most of what people do with Word which is letter writting, memos, and other simplistic documents. RTF importing is actually quite good.
A little procmail scripting coupled with a Windows machine (or 3) setup as automated document converter (a little VB scripting) solves external communication needs nicely.
If this is too tough for you, you can also setup an autoresponder system telling people to resend their documents in a more open format such as PDF or RTF, etc.
The argument that it's the de-facto industry standard so you can't change is a red-herring.
Complex spreadsheets are a little more difficult, but only a small fraction of people use them anyway. You leave them on Windows (or run vmware, crossover office, etc.) If you can convert 90% + of your office to Linux / OO, you win. It's actually amazing how good gnumeric and OO are with excel sheets.
Youre making an assumption that the Simdesk business plan doesnt end with:
2. Get bought out by Microsoft.
3. Profit!
This is exactly the reason why a win for ANY proprietary software company is a not a win for Free Software.
I would think they would make a point of including Linux in that list if they actually supported it.
Essential all they are doing is running "office" on Citrix and selling the client really cheaply.
So now the city saves up front and pays for the rest of eternity? Isn't this the Model that MS wants to go to in the future anyway? I fail to see where this becomes a "victory" over MS, since I very much doubt the city of Huston will be implementing a fleet of Macs or WebTV on every desk!
the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head
However, Microsoft "Embraced and Extended" RTF format, to the point where an RTF created in ClarisWorks, aka AppleWorks, is gibberish to MS Office and vice/versa. RTF was created by Apple as part of the original Macintosh effort.
.PDF works as a somewhat universal document format. And that's read-only unless you are either running Linux/MacOS X/*BSD or have Acrobat on the Windows/Classic MacOS side.
Alas, only
"But you've already got a DVD. It lasts forever....In the digital world, we don't need back-ups..."
-- Jack Valenti
Yes, Piper may be a liar, a cheat, and a thief (we don't even have a plea in the case to which you refer), but not in connection with the city of Houston's bidding process. As we see from material you quoted:
"The county District Attorney, in a separate probe, examined Piper's financial records and stumbled into evidence that Piper may have embezzled $200,000 from his previous employer, Reliant Energy." (emphasis added)
In fact, I'm at a loss to explain the newspaper's decision to drag this unrelated scandal into the article. I hope it wasn't to discredit one side in the Microsoft vs. SimDesk contest.
"I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse." -- Groucho Marx
This is over-hype on part of USA Today. The guy who originally worked out the contract with SimDesk was questionably a con-artist on the take with SimDesk. Meanwhile, the guy who replaced him didn't renew the licensing with MS because they couldn't agree on the number of licenses needed, but they're not necessarily dumping their existing MS licenses. Upon review, I think the "Houston dumps MS for SimDesk" slant is sensationalistic. An alternative would be "Houston does the best it can with a bad situation."
How is this legal? How is this allowed?
If I owned a company and said hell with Microsoft software, and they walked into my company, I would throw them right out on the curb.
It's just that simple.
WHY are companies/municipalities allowing this!?
Just say no, you cant browse our computers to look for stuff, its private and none of their buisness!
End this madness!
Sure, but why should you want to send/receive a spreadsheet with a macro to/from a client?
The company I work for has occasionally sent to contractors fairly complicated spreadsheets. We have specific tasks to complete, and these have proved the best method to accomplish them. We expect the contract to use the tools we provide to accomplish the task we set.
--Ravensfire
"But we decide which is right, and which is an illusion"
And I tend to agree with you with a single exception.
You're right that it's (on the surface at least) neither particularly good nor bad for OSS but if you consider the old "enemy of my enemy is my friend" way of looking at things then on some level this kind of thing may help. What's the single biggest obsticle for anyone else in the software universe other than Microsoft? That would be "Microsoft" I think. Anything that competes with them successfully, anything that takes their full attention from what you are doing to compete with them, and anything that demonstrates an ability to win anything against them is good for everyone hoping to do the same.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Ok, have to respond to this. I just left a company that did tech support for both Microsoft and Dell. They are running WinXP and have been doing it for about 9 months now. If the person that you spoke to was not, it was because they are an outsourced call center who has other reasons not to upgrade (no money, no tech staff).
I worked in the call center industry for 3 years. You did not get new contracts if you were not running state of the art systems with the latest software (yes, including Linux). Spent a lot of time upgrading a lot of machines in several countries to WinXP.
This post is modded +3 Insightful and it is full of nothing but opinions.
Maybe not good for OSS, but it does provide overall competition in the market, which MS is in desparate need of.
Once OpenOffice and StarOffice mature some more, and we see the Linux community develop some if the integrations that MS claims it can't, THEN OSS becomes another, and more serious competitor.
In space, no one can hear you moo.
I took the liberty of tapping the City of Houston's phones when the negotiations with Microsoft were happening. Here's what I found:
....Hold on a second.
MS: We know you use our software and don't pay for it!
HO: How do you know that?
MS: Because everyone does. If you don't give us ONE MILLION DOLLARS (sound of pinky finger going in mouth) we will expose you and your city's pirating ways!
HO: Well, actually we have a new company to give us our office software suite.
MS: Ha, ha ha!! That will never work! EVERYBODY uses Microsoft Office, you will never be able to exchange documents without corruption!
HO: We ran into that problem when we upgraded from Office '95 to '97 acutally.
MS: Ha, ha ha!! That is because we love money!! Err... wait. I mean, that is because of all the new features in Office '97!! Ha, ha ha!!
HO: That doesn't sound like a good reason to me.
MS:
MS: Ha, ha ha!! If you don't give us ONE MILLION DOLLARS we will expose you and your city's pirating ways!
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
That's it. This isn't a win for OSS or for Linux, it's a win for everyone that doesn't rely on M$ day in and day out. It legitimizes what we do to people that don't understand.
I have to ask, why was Tatro SOOO against this move? So much so that Piper was investigated for rigging the bid but later nothing was found. This sounds like what the Microsoft sales reps were saying at the beginning( before the contract was actually awarded ). Is/was Tatro receiving funds from Microsoft?
I just loved how the Texas Attorney General backed out of the DOJ/States vs Microsoft case when Dell and another Texas company pressured such a move. You know Microsoft 'asked' these companies to do this.... What did they 'ask' of Tatro??????
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
This is hardly the type of case that one would want to use a poster-child for open source.
.NET ads at the top of Slashdot, they are being paid by both sides.
Who said anything about open source? One second look at the Simdesk front page throws up words like 'proprietry' and 'patented'. See next paragraph.
Particularly as it appears that Sim desk is actually closed source and that this story is yet another bash Microsoft for any reason at all story.
You are waaay off the mark. A big win for a company that is competing with M$ Office is news because breaking the M$ hold on the file formats is important for open source making headway into the desktop market.
At the moment, M$ can change its file format as much as it likes to cut off any competitors. Those offering compatibility have no choice except to play catch-up.
If large government departments and corporations start using "Office compatiable" software then they are going to be upset if M$ starts producing incompatiable WP files. These are the kind of people that M$ have to listen to.
When large segments of markets start using different competing "Office compatible" suites then they will start making their users saving by default to a format that they *know* will work in all the suites (eg Word v.XXX). Once everybody gets locked into this version, and it's difficult for M$ to change it without upsetting too many people, then instead of playing catch-up everybody (open source and proprietary) can concentrate on polishing accurate import and export filters. This would be excellent for consumers.
You don't think that maybe some of the slashdot editors are getting paid by a Microsoft competitor or something?
Judging by the
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
"...it appears that ... this story is yet another bash Microsoft for any reason at all story. You don't think that maybe some of the slashdot editors are getting paid by a Microsoft competitor or something?"
Most people here don't like Microsoft for very good reasons. Just because the editors seem to dislike Microsoft (which I would assume) doesn't mean they're being paid, doesn't mean they're posting articles with large bias, or only posting anti-MS articles. The editors have an interest in Microsoft and what happens to them, as do most computer geeks.
Microsoft, AFAIK the biggest software company in the world and certainly the most powerful, just lost Houston. That is news. I'm sure the editors got a smile on their face and said, "Sweet, post it, sounds cool," but that doesn't mean anyone is getting paid off or that the Slashdot editors are largely biased.
This is a site for nerds. Nerds, in a large part, dislike Microsoft for very reasonable reasons. This news is interesting. Quit reading between the lines; this isn't CNN, this is a fun community news site.
~Dalcius
Rome wasn't burnt in a day.
I think he shot himself in the foot on that one.
This wonderfully brings out the difference between Microsoft and the unix/linux philosophy of "there's more than one way to cat a file". For a long time, I've been of the opinion that Microsoft's attitude toward their customers was pretty much the same as IBM's was in their (pre '80s) monopoly days.
The Linux solution, on the other hand starts with the premise of user freedom.(-: Two different Houstons -- both of whom think that Linux provides the necessary pieces for "the ultimate solution". :-)
OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
Cost of acquisition not withstanding, cost of ownership & maintenance really ends up being in the joint hands of management & implementers. Management for business ownership & goal setting, implementers for effective implementation. The worst build OSS system WILL cost you considerably more in the long run and sink your ROI, than a similar payware system correctly designed & efficiently built.
/.ers seem to forget regularly : it's not the technology (unless you're doing something patently idiotic like using Access), it's getting management buy-in.
I think that's the crux of this whole debate that all
Again, so what for Houston. If they have competent techs and it's a solid product, sure their ROI will be better. If their techs are incompetently lead (all too common) or inept (as common) then they won't see an ROI and they'll take the easy route out : blame the product\system\people\OSS.
be0wulfe
Free software has powerful attractions - which Microsoft exploited when it bundled a free internet browser into its operating system to challenge Netscape.
Yet another indication that attempts to distinguish between free-as-in-RMS-has-a-dream and free-as-in-AOL-CDs are completely lost on the mainstream media.
Marklar: marklar
OpenOfficeMS Office export and import problems even with plain Word letters
I'll do you one better. I've run into OpenOffice import problems with Word a plain text document exported to RTF! Not being able a simple Word import was bad, not being able to handle it in RTF; that's an open document format.
I'm interested by the cluelessness of the Microsoft guy's assertions about IBM's relationship to open source and Linux. (Disclaimer: Yeah, I work for IBM, but I'm gonna try not to make this a sales pitch. Obviously this isn't an official statement, it's my opinion, errors are mine, blah blah.)
He says that IBM is relying on proprietary, closed software. He seems to think that you won't see an open source equivalent of WebSphere.
Well, WebSphere is based on Apache Tomcat. The IBM HTTP server bundled with WebSphere is a version of Apache. IBM WebSphere Studio Application Developer is based on Eclipse, another open source project.
I don't know what he means by "integration", but IBM has disk images for internal use that have a complete Linux, DB2 and WebSphere install, ready to run. They're used for demos; customers typically have very specific requirements, and want something that's custom integrated with their existing infrastructure. (Contrast with Microsoft's approach, where it's integrated only so long as everything else you own is Microsoft.)
Peter Houston asserts that IBM is pushing for a world of commodity Intel hardware running Linux. Well, not really--IBM has Linux running on iSeries (AS/400), pSeries (PowerPC) and zSeries (OS/390) as well as xSeries (Intel). (Yes, you can run Linux on your IBM mainframe.)
IBM is more than happy to sell you Linux solutions based on any of those hardware platforms, depending on how heavyweight your requirements are. I very much doubt that anyone is being encouraged to move from iSeries or zSeries to Intel; in fact, one recent ad campaign has been selling the benefits of consolidating hundreds of Intel boxes into one iSeries server.
He says that Linux open source makes it very difficult to have a revenue-generating business. Well, IBM generated over a billion dollars of revenue from Linux sales last year, in the middle of a recession. Not so difficult after all?
Single sign-on? Yeah, we do that, with Kerberos, LDAP, JAAS, or Tivoli products on Linux.
IBM a services company, not a software company? That's a surprise to those of us who work in the $12 billion+ IBM Software Group.
And of course, if you really want a slick UNIX OS that's fully integrated and never needs you to touch a command line, and you don't care about how proprietary it is, you could buy an Apple Xserve... Seems to me Microsoft loses that battle too.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
This may have been posted already and I just missed it, but if not, here goes:
The article mentioned that SimDesk was installed on the library's computers as a trial basis and it was extremely popular. Maybe since we're all highly computer literate, we tend to forget that there are many out there who aren't, maybe for the simple fact that they're too poor to own a computer.
Think about it. Suppose you were poor and didn't have a computer and needed to do some kind of word processing, your options would be limited. Not considering typewriters and all-in-one wordprocessors, you could either go over to a friend's and use their computer (assuming you had such a friend who wouldn't mind the inconvenience) or what--go to the library?
Assuming the library had a word processor or spreadsheet or whatever it was you needed to use, you'd still have to get a hold of a floppy disk or a zip disk in order to save your work. By using an office suite that enables you to save your work remotely, you eliminate the need for the user to buy storage media--something that for some could be unattainable.
Additionally, as has already been stated, the average Joe Blow user has no need for most of what M$ Office does. By going with SimDesk in the libraries, the city of Houston has made opened the door for many who were previously shut out. Heck, the article stated that it was their aim to make SimOffice available for every poor person.
"What began as Brown's goal to use SimDesk as an affordable way to give poor residents access to basic computer functions broadened into a plan to use SimDesk as a cheaper alternative on some city PCs, too."
And the results:
"... during nine months of the pilot program, more than 30,000 users had written and stored resumes, school papers, legal statements, poetry and other files on the SimDesk server. They couldn't do complex data sorting or many other chores Office does well. Even so, lines formed at the library's SimDesk terminals. Civic leaders rallied behind it. "SimDesk lowers the barriers for the low-income community," says Brian Stevens, executive director of The Telecom Opportunity Institute, a non-profit that guides at-risk youth."
Like many of you, my first reaction was, "Huh?!" Why didn't they go with Open Office?" Maybe because you have to save your files locally and SimOffice eliminates that need? There's no risk of losing or damaging your floppy. However, to be fair, if SimDesk's network or hard drives fail, where are you? It's a tradeoff, I guess.
Anyway, I think the fact that Mayor Brown was concerned about bringing basic computer functioning to the masses, succeeded, saved money, didn't have to upgrade hardware, and did it all in spite of Micro$oft's corporate extortion is quite a feat. So what if it's not open source? Do you really think that any of the new beneficiaries of the free access to the previously unavailable technology give a rip about that?
This isn't the sig you're looking for...
Not to mention that on my own work PC, I can save a document from Word 2002 into Word 95 format, open the back-saved version, and see quite a different document. Yes, there are good reasons I'm doing this--it's not just to pick on Uncle Bill.
And OpenOffice can at least load the MacOS Word 6.0 files, the back-saved Win95 files, and Word 2002 files without screwing them up much worse than Microsoft's own office suite does. The ensuing hand-tweaking is what leads me to distribute most of our stuff as PDF these days, but occasionally our other volunteers need documents they can edit in their office suite of force^W choice.
There's your evidence. Yeah, I know, it's only one user, and it's anecdotal. But I'm sure there are others.
"I call a baby goat a 'goatse.'" -- my non-Internet-savvy 6-year-old stepdaughter
I'm in Houston and Lee Brown IS a Democrat.
Work is punishment for failing to procrastinate effectively.
Well you could read the report. It is basically a whitewash job to save the Mayor's butt, but it can't do the job. As for whether Tatro has a hidden agenda, quite possibly but it seems rather more likely that his agenda is party politics than carrying water for Microsoft.
The report is actually pretty damning. The contract amount was $9.5 million, yet the report states that "Mr Piper did not understand the contract development and negotiation process and the time it would take".
If you have had any experience at all of city politics you know that a statement of that type is horsepucky. You do not get to be CIO of a city the size of Houston without understanding the difference between an RFP and a contract negotiation. The story that he came from private industry does not wash either, anyone involved in corporate procurement knows what an RFP is.
When you see a statement like that in an inspectors report it means precisely one thing, namely the inspector is pretty sure that something fishy went on but lacks the evidence to prove it.
The description of the bidding process demonstrates pretty clearly that the RFP was deliberately written to ensure that only one party could bid. It was written so narrowly that only IAT's application fitted. It was not only the Microsoft sales guy who was frozen out. The IBM sales rep would have bid if allowed additional time - which IAT did not need because they had known about the RFP two months beforer it was issued and in any case it described their product.
Its not just the Microsoft guy who thought the deal was stinky, the BMC guy also wondered why the city would replace an existing exchange installation that was fully functional with 'an untested product for $9 million'.
The Advarion guy also had some pretty good points, the contract was massively inflated from the start, the number of users was overstated, the number of simultaneous users was overstated. It was also plain wrong about a lot of technical issues. Why specify a 5Tb file storage device when it is easy to add extra capacity? "Many requirements do not state a problem to be solved but include required equipment, resources and programming design. Most of the time the City is concerned with solving a City problem, not a programming problem. The RFP includes software architecture and virtually useless features as requirements. This does not encourage proposal submittal but confuses software companies and discourages proposal submittal."
Piper himself admits that the contract price grew by $4.5 million because they had underestimated the cost of bandwidth.
The inspectors report does not actually clear Piper of all charges, the dispute over what was said to Microsoft is 'Not Sustained' rather than 'No'. It is interesting however to read the actual text used to justify these conclusions.
The RFP process is found to have been 'fair' because the vendors who were frozen out failled to complain about the process at the time. The fact that IBM and Centrix 'indicated that they could have entered a bid'. This is pure whitewash, IBM stated they did not enter a bid because the city did not allow enough time and Centrix did not enter a bid because they did not know from the RFP what the City actually wanted.
The inspectors report only considers the issue of whether the process was unfair to the bidders. The real scandal is that the whole project from start to finish was a collosal boondoggle that was a collosal waste of public money. It is typical of dotcom era and enron thinking rather than practical realities. $9.5 million has been spent on an IT infrastructure that we can confidently predict will never be used.
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And where are your references on these "facts" of yours? I'll bet they are where your head is, i.e., where the sun doesn't shine...You obviously don't know crap about real estate economics. Taxes and water/garbage costs are only a small part of a renter's rent. Maintenance and upkeep are a much larger part of the bill than taxes and water/garbage fees.
And the reason we still have a regressive property tax system in Texas is because the White Republicans in charge will never adopt a more fair state income tax because that way rich White conservatives will have to pay their fair share of taxes, unlike the situation today.The city has very little direct involvement with the sports stadiums. I guess you have never heard of the Houston/Harris County Sports Authority The train route is actually 7.5 miles. It begins next to the University of Houston Downtown (and runs on Main Street about 1/2 mile from the baseball park and basketball stadium), runs next to Houston Community College Central Campus, the Museum District, Rice University, and the Texas Medical Center before it gets to the Astrodome area and the new football stadium. It is hardly a stadium to stadium shuttle.This paragraph is so full of errors it is laughable. There is no SINGLE bus line that tracks the train. There are at least 6 different routes, and many of them have massive traffic to the Medical Center and downtown Houston.
As far as your second assertion goes, the whole Astrodome area was once prairie, but now the Medical Center is growing to the point where it almost takes up the whole area. There are beaucoup apartments, office buildings, stores, car dealers, etc. in the area, so it HAS been revitalized!And this ties into SimDesk how? Besides the "connection" in your fevered brain that is...That proves it. This post is full of errors that it cannot be moderated as "informative". It is actually pure Texas-grade bullshit so it cannot considered "insightful". It is really a troll and should be moderated as such.
Moderators, please check the facts before moderating someone as "informative". Someone needs to step up and bitchslap this piece of crap before anyone else thinks there is even a grain of truth to it...
A man who wants nothing is invincible
Oh, plenty, see some of my other posts in this thread. Unfortunately I started from what I thought was the clincher, the fact that Piper, the procurement guy behind the bid is currently behind bars on charges he embezzled $200,000. (actually it was $294,000 but who's counting?)
It was only after I started digging that I discovered that the inspector generals report that 'exhonerates' Piper and the contract in fact does the exact opposite if you read the facts themselves rather than the whitewash conclusions drawn from them.
If you read the report you will find that this was not a Microsoft vs IAT contest at all. IAT was given the inside track against all the other bidders. Basically the contract was written in such a way that IAT was the only possible bidder for the $9.5 million contract.
One reason you can tell the deal stinks is that the whole point of adopting an outsourced model is that it allows you to scale your resources to your exact needs. If you need an extra 1000 seats you simply call up the vendor and send them a check. There is simply no rational justification for committing to purchase 15,000 seats in advance before you know what the demand is going to be. What you would do is to write a contract that allows you to purchase from 1000 to 15,000 seats in increments of 500 seats as required.
I have been involved in outsourcing procurement deals of this type for a very long time. Deals of this type are known as 'sweatheart deals', you know what they are as soon as you read the RFP. If you are not the favored bidder you can be absolutely certain that the only result of making a protest will be a whitewash investigation and your company being blacklisted in all future contracts.
This is not a party matter, the Mayor of Houston is a Democrat posing as an Independent but Republicans have pulled far larger scams in that citty. The biggest scam of all being the billions Enron and its accomplices ripped off California with the active help of Bush and Cheney.
Take a read of the comments in the OIG report, in particular the comments of the BMC and Advarion guys. The conclusions are pure whitewash but its much harder to hide the actual facts.
The contract was clearly a boondogle from start to finish and Piper gave IAT the inside track to win it. It was not only Microsoft that was frozen out, it was also IBM.Lotus (heard of them) and anyone else who could have provided the same functionality.
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