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A Preview of Ximian's Gnome 2.0 Desktop
TweetZilla writes "Dennis Powell has a good preview of Ximian's newest desktop. But does anybody care at this point? How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?"
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... would you submit a story with "Who really gives a flying fuck?" in the summary?
I'd totally forgotten that they rebranded Gnome. I tried it when it first came out, but it didn't really offer anything that the 'normal' Gnome didn't do just as well (which isn't saying much.)
How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?
Ximian's DESKTOP -> WM
Evolution -> Mail Client
What kind of comparison is this? And as a matter of fact, I use both...
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
How many people still use Ximian's desktop?
A lot of Solaris users (including myself) that don't want to spend days downloading and compiling dependencies for Gnome.
_______
2B1ASK1
No screenshots.
Stop reading.
I like Ximian, and I like KDE. I find it easier to install Ximian, so I tend to use it. I don't want to go messing with all the RPM dependencies to get KDE going on my RedHat system. Ximian does it for my in a GUI wizard. Call me an idiot if you want.
I use evolution unless you have any better ideas.
David M. Dinner (ddinner@obtix.net)
The article doesn't describe anything other than how excited this guy was about the features he saw, which he really didn't go into, and there are no screenshots.
my desktop environment can beat up your desktop environment...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
" Ximian does it for my in a GUI wizard. Call me an idiot if you want."
OK, you're an idiot. Although I don't know why you'd want to be called one?
Thank gopod that they didn't include and screenshots of the new desktop. That could have overwhelmed my fragile sensibilities.
Will Ximian give me back my view-ports and edge-flipping? Gnome2/metacity/sawfish2 in RedHat 8.0 totally pissed me off with their lack, and opposed stance to such features. Don't they realize how addictive those things are? It's like UI heroine, and I'm jonesing! If Ximian implemented those features along with some other standard missing preferences like user defined key-bindings (right now you have to use gconf-editor to set them), I think a large portion of Gnome users would switch. Go Ximian.
Oh, and on an aside note, is Michael on crack? Evolution vs. Desktop?!? It must be the lack of viewports that's fucking him up.
For heaven's sake, don't mention the war!
Read the article- it's (will be) based on 2.2. I'd say that with the polish and finish that 2.2 has brought vs. 2.0 that this was a lot of the code maturity and consistency that Ximian was waiting for. - you have to remember that although they are not up to CVS speed for getting this out.. (I know I know it's taken them freakin forever) that they wanted to wait for a good solid "Gnome Distro" to be tested and ready. They don't target this neccesarily towards the techie crowd- but more as a corporate (easy to roll out and maintain via Red Carpet (and RC enterprise) desktop solution WITH a company in the back to optionally support it (important seling point to some mgrs.). Also it's an easy to install/maintain and 'fairly' quick intro to Gnome for a lot of folks who won't/can't/don't want to compile and put up with problems with bleeding edge code...
"You never truly understand a thing until you can explain it to your grandmother" -Albert Einstein
Well, considering that Ximian is the only easily installable version of the GNOME desktop (unless you stick with what comes default with your distro), I would say probably quite a few. And Evolution is a mail client, so that comparison doesn't make much sense.
> a number of very nice looking typefaces that exactly coincide with the ones Microsoft ships;
> as a result, their browser renders pages "best viewed in Internet Explorer," as the incompaibility
> is euphemistically called, exactly as if in Internet Explorer.
Erm, fonts != web rendering technology. If it's broke in Gecko it's broke in Gecko, and having the right fonts won't make any difference. Or does he mean, "best viewed in Windows"?
What's euphemistic about it? And why does the author call it an "incompatibility" when he means a "recommendation"? Euphemism, n.: "an inoffensive expression that is substituted for one that is considered offensive".
As another user points out, the article offers so salient points regarding any actual new features or improvements, just a general mish-mash. Then to round off it sounds off on a whole load of random mismatched arguements about how free software's wonderful. We've heard it all a thousand times before.
I get so annoyed by people writing pretentious twaddle using words they don't understand because they think it looks impressive, while simultaneously making grammatical, spelling and typographical errors all over the shop. You ain't fooling no one...
Next please.
I used Ximian Desktop right up to the day I installed Red Hat 8.0. Which Ximian doesn't support yet. As soon as XD supports RH8, I'm using it again.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
You see when I go to a link that's going to tell me about some booth at a linux I want some graphical content.
Anonymous Cowards - Oh God, How I hate you
When I first started using linux GUI's, Ximian's Gnome desktop was one of the early one's I ran through and tried.
Even now, it's still rather impressive: nice themes, runs fairly quick/smooth, interesting suite of applications. Changing settings was also quite easy.
I've since tried running RedHat 8.0's packaged Gnome, and was considerable less impressed. The thing runs like a wounded Yak, and it's not nearly as pretty as Ximian.
Oh, and as a really nice point for GUI newbies... installing Ximian Gnome was "extremely" painless on RedHat, using a webpage piped through a shell: (substitute "links" for "lynx' as needed):
lynx -source http://go-gnome.com/ | sh
I do and others like me who use non-Linux X servers like Solaris. I use Ximian Desktop because Evolution isn't well suited for a Ultra Sparc IIi 400 mhz with 128 mb of RAM, whereas the Ximian desktop is.
Think before you spout.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
Can anyone tell me if they've fixed the file chooser dialog? If they haven't, they have 2 options...
(1) Fix the file chooser dialog. It's horrible. I've used DOS applications from the 80s which had better faux file chooser dialogs. QT 1.x had a better file chooser box.
(2) Give up. They haven't gotten it fixed yet, when will they.
Seriously, it's horrible. I've never had to interact with such a horribly designed file chooser box as much as I do because I use evolution. I love how when you change directories; the filename of whatever you're trying to save disappears. Great feature guys.
Seriously. Give me something with a "up a level button". And put the directories and files in one window, with "icons" so I can tell the difference between the two.
Um, nobody cares. That is, no one outside the geek development crowd. This thing is aimed at people who want to run Linux, but want to have it look nice and do what they want without having to spend all day setting it up, or all year learning how to install/compile/rpm/apt-get/whatever.
In fact, most places that would use Ximian Desktop, like actual companies, don't want the latest, greatest. They want something that has been around for a little bit, that they know is not going to break right away.
I, for one, will be quite happy if it fulfills half the expectations this guy sets up for it. I've been looking for something that I can put on my Mom's computer that will still give her all her Windows functionality and ease-of-use. If Ximian Desktop 2.0 does this, she doesn't care what the number is (indeed, she probably won't even realize there is one!).
Troy
That's true. If you're trying to upgrade a Redhat install that's had Ximian overlayed, you need to IMMEDIATELY do a Ximian upgrade afterwards or the system will be unstable. I've been through 3 Redhat upgrades with Ximian, and have been just fine as long as I've followed that procedure. I'm stalled at Redhat 7.3 (which is no bad thing IMO) until Ximian gets this new desktop release ready for use.
It's either someone who is a rabid GNOME2 user, or a KDE user who has some childish bone to pick with Ximian for some reason. Nevermind all the work from Ximian that can be found at gnome.org. What a loser. I'm using KDE 3.1 myself, but kudos to Ximian for their pending release.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Go to sawfish wiki, interesting things, like how to emulate it with workspaces, how to get it working as always (so you can have worksaces AND viewports, and sending to hell those who say you are mad for using that or for viewport), how to get a nice pager for sawfish and many more.
You need to read the article. It is based on GNOME 2.0. The only reference to GNOME 2.2 was that GNOME 2.2 will have been out for a couple of months by the time Ximian releases their 2.0 desktop! It never states that Ximian Desktop 2.0 is based on GNOME 2.2
It's not like Ximian's desktop is *bad*. It's certainly a nicely polished interface for those of us who like to have a constant and stable desktop, with simple ways to change things we'd like.
Ximian certainly offers that, but IMHO, Gnome2's desktop framework offers this as well. Ximian though, in contrast to just Gnome2, is a bit easier for most Windows converts than just plain Gnome/Gnome2. Also, Ximian's desktop is rather inclusive of some pretty "user-friendly" tools.
I think KDE and Ximian's Gnome2 are going to be the usual first-used desktops by most converts. This is important for those who care about making Linux a more "popular" desktop for the general populous. We should always try to encourage this type of activity, because it inspires choice.
After a convert learns about all the features, and shortcomings of their "starter" environment, they will inevitably change something, or just find something they like more.
Without a "starter" type desktop though, they wouldn't be as encouraged to find something they like more, thus stifling the overall acceptance of Linux as a general purpose desktop.
We should always try to change the negative to be positive, if it is possible. A good Linux desktop, which wins converts from Windows, will increase the popularity of Linux, thus increasing the acceptance of OpenSource software, thus increasing how much people rely on OSS, and then people will care more about it than they previously had. At least a little.
It's a chain of events that will lead more use of OSS software in general, and something we should continue to help the growth of. Not say "why the hell would anyone use that shit? I use WindowMaker and it's just fine!". Maybe once those converts are on Linux for a while, they may agree. Give'm the opportunity.
--SuperBug
Not to defend the idiocy of comparing the Desktop (Ximian) to the Mail Client (Evolution), I feel that it was made due to a situation that was present about a year ago. Before redhat 7.3, you could not get Ximian Evolution without having Ximian's gnome rpms or without compiling from source. The former screwed up much of the automatic update mechanisms of certain distros and the latter delved the user into dependency hell, usually requiring a .01 increase in a library version number. When distros started to include Evolution as a standalone, many users just ditched Ximian entirely, as for many, Evolution was the *only* reason to go with them. Just a thought...
There are two main reasons I'm holding off on RH8:
a) No Ximian available
b) The GNOME it comes with doesn't do viewports. I can't live without my 3x2 workspace. Keyboard shortcuts are no replacement for moving the mouse to the edge of the screen to go to the next one. It just feels more natural.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
click here to see a Ximian Gnome 2 preview
as a Kde 3.1 user myself, i think it doesnt quite compare..
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
No, those are two completely different things!
Workspaces are totally independent desktops. If you slide something off the edge of one, it just vanishes. In order to flip between them, currently you have to drag the mouse down to the little toolbar applet and click on a different one. Pain!!
Viewports are like a window on a single, much larger desktop. You can drag a application off the edge of one viewport and onto an adjoining one, which is why you have edge-flipping. It is also possible to open a window much larger than the physical display and scan around it.
Personally, I use viewports and edge flipping all the time!
The lack of viewports in RH 8.0 is the single greatest reason why I haven't switched yet.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?
Ask corporations which use Linux on the desktop and want some support :-) My company is doing a roll out of Linux based workstations (actually thinclients) to a health related organisation, and if budget would be higher it'd be nice to have more software for which you pay but get support when some problems occur...
Oh, by the way, what IS Ximian, really? Isn't it just a mod of Gnome?
Ximian is a company that does a couple of projects -- Mono, Evolution. They also put out a "distribution" of GNOME, much like RH and Mandrake put out distributions of Linux. If you like Ximian's desktop more than the one that comes with, say, Red Hat, you can use it instead.
This may seem a little odd to some people, but GNOME is a somewhat larger, looser, more distributed collection of projects than KDE or GNUStep, and it's actually quite convenient if you want to use GNOME.
Please, someone, let KDE 4.0 and Gnome 3.0 be the same.
I doubt it'll happen. Too many differences in what the two projects are trying to accomplish. KDE people are trying to essentially produce a clone of what MS has done, and directly compete with them for Windows users. Smaller, programs more tied to each other, less independence for individual projects. GNOME people are trying to take an umbrella of projects and "condense" them into a desktop environment. Larger, more modular, programs more independent and simply packaged together. Rather like a Linux distro, come to think of it.
May we never see th
Edge-flipping and viewports are both in GNOME 2. Annoyingly enough, the GNOME people took a page from the KDE people and decided that no one would *ever* want one big desktop, so their default now sucks. It's quite easy to get things back, though.
;; set up viewports
I use sawfish. Add the following to ~/.sawfishrc:
(setq customize-command-classes '(default viewport))
(setq viewport-dimensions '(3 . 4))
(or whatever size you want -- I like 3 across, 4 high.
For edge flipping, be sure you've turned it on in the sawfish config dialog.
Finally, a bunch of the kickass features in GNOME 2 are off by default to accomodate less-than-technically-ept Windows users. You probably want them on too.
Add the following to ~/.gtkrc-2.0:
gtk-can-change-accels = 1
gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
This will give you emacs style keys back again. Once more, ctrl-a will go to the beginning of the line, ctrl-k will kill, etc. It will also let you rebind menu items by simply hovering the mouse pointer over the item so that it's selected and then hitting the desired key combination.
And I agree about the Evolution/Desktop thing...how did this ever get on Slashdot?
May we never see th
No diff, b/c this works in CVS, debian, etc builds...
// Mongoose: This is a hack and it's not ideal, however it took me several _minutes_ to make this! // I might make a real patch later, but for now here you go and I'll make it shift window position if asked // Quick and dirty edge flipping hack, // looks for mouse cursor touching edge during window drag
// turnOnTheEvil
// Hack to allow 'ringed' edge flipping needs to use index
// Please remember metacity is a pretty poor code base w/o any documentation I could see and this is the quickest entry to produce this // IMHO havoc should take the carrot out of his ass and add features and fixes instead of bitching
In the file src/window.c
In the function constrain_position(...)
In the else {} block after the if else (window->maximized) {} block
After the function call:
meta_window_get_work_area (window, FALSE, &work_area);
Add this code:
#define EDGE_FLIPPING_HACK
#ifdef EDGE_FLIPPING_HACK
if (1)
{
static int transition = 0;
int threshold = (window->rect.width/2);
int left = 0;
if (transition)
{
if (!(x work_area.x + work_area.width - (threshold + 16)))
transition = 0;
}
else if (x work_area.x + work_area.width - threshold)
{
MetaWorkspace *workspace;
transition = 1;
workspace = window->screen->active_workspace;
if (workspace)
{
int index = meta_workspace_index(workspace);
if (x work_area.x - threshold - 40)
{
++index;
left = 1;
workspace = meta_workspace_get_neighbor(workspace, META_MOTION_LEFT);
}
else
{
--index;
if (index 0)index = 3;
workspace = meta_workspace_get_neighbor(workspace, META_MOTION_RIGHT);
}
}
if (workspace)
{
meta_window_change_workspace(window, workspace);
meta_workspace_activate(workspace);
}
}
}
#endif