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A Commodore 64 For The New Millenium
samdu writes "The CommodoreOne is now available for purchase. The C=1 is a reimplementation of the Commodore=64 in an ATX form factor, 65c816 processor running at approximately 20 MHz, VGA out, an updated SID (with backward compatibility), 32 MB of RAM, standard IDE, PS/2 ports, and a 64 compatible cartridge slot. Let the hobbying begin." We've run previous stories on related efforts.
10 ? "IN SOVIET RUSSIA"
20 ? "YOU ARE COMMODORE MILLLENIUM"
30 ? " "
40 GOTO 10
Are you crazy!?
It's a babe magnet!!
No, i don't like sigs...
Just as I wouldn't go out and buy a classic arcade console, but rather would run MAME, why would someone want this when the 6502 can be completely emulated very well? Emulation isn't an option when extreme performance is required, but I'd wager that a modern Ghz+ would emulate a 6502 and subsystems at a speed greatly outpacing a actual 20Mhz 6502.
A classic's a classic, and there's no denying that.
New millenium this, new millenium that, but to me and many like myself, there'll only ever be one Commodore.
*nix.org
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
Reports are coming in that atari is making a Minitower 2600 and to our surprise here at the shop someone told us they have a Vic20 running at 3mhz with 4k of ram in a shuttle case.
Blood amazing! Just when I broke my last paper weight I get a new bigger one. Could someone make me a Beta recorder in a xbox case please?!
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
I've read that there's a healthy community of people who still write C64 software both in the US and in Europe. They get off of work coding on modern computers and then go home and challenge themselves with writing the most efficient code possible -- a novel and comparitively low priority in current software development. Think of it as building a ship in a bottle. One could build the ship outside the bottle, but where the fun it that? --Richard
Sure its cool, and would be fun to mess with, but if its more then a box of parts in cost.. why??
I can build a C64 for almost nothing, even if i didnt have 3 in the garage somewhere...
Hell you can do this on a single programmable chip these days.. now THATS really cool.
Does this mean we will see a 'modernized' atari 8bit as well, or an ST...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This product seems to ignore economics. In particular, it would be less expensive to buy a standard PC and then emulate the Commodore 64 (and also be able to run lots of other standard software).
Perhaps their team could have used one more person with a business degree, and one less engineer, to figure this out....
.Think of it as building a ship in a bottle. One could build the ship outside the bottle, but where the fun it that?
Actually, ships in bottles are built mostly outside the bottle with jointed masts. Then the ship is stuffed in the bottle, and the masts are raised.
Likewise, modern programs for underpowered systems (Palm, GBA, retro consoles) are developed on PCs using cross-compilers and emulators and then moved to the target system for testing.
Will I retire or break 10K?
This is a trend that MUST be stopped! You don't see the consequences, I DO! One day Windows 3.0 will be retro enough to be 'cool' and some bastard will resurrect it!
:(
Stop it now before it's too late
...can I run Linux on it?
This sort of comment pops up all the time on
If you don't want one, or think it's a dumb idea, then don't buy one. Problem solved.
This is not meant to be a troll or flamebait, though it will probably be modded as such.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
But still, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to use something a bit more modern to emulate that Commodore
Sure you can emulate it, but you miss so much by simple emulation. The most hailed feature of the C64 was the sid chip (it's still used by some techo artists to make effects)
It all comes down to timing, when you emulate you are forced to the timing of the host system. Emulated sound NEVER sounds as good as the real thing.
I was on the other side of the fence back in the 8-bit days(atari user), we used to call commodore users "Commode Door" users, but I can still relate to them when it comes to sound reproduction. You just cannot get that vintage computer sound without the real thing.
Does it run LUnix - the free UNIX clone for the original C64?
...
LNG is an operationg system primarly for the good old Commodore64 home-computer. There also is a native version for the successor Commodore128. Ports to other 6502/6510 driven 8Bit Computers are possible but not yet started. LUnix started in 1993 and reached the internet in 1994. In 1997 LUnix0.1 was rewritten from scratch, the result is LNG.
Features of LUnix:
* Preemptive multitasking (up to 32 tasks, 7 priorities)
* Dynamic memory management (in chunks of 256 or 32 bytes)
* Runtime code relocation
* IPC (inter process communication) through pipes
* IPC through signals
* (minimal) REU support
* SCPU compatible
* Hardware stack swapping (C128 only)
* 256K RAM C128 compatible
* >30 standard applications available
* Support for standard RS232 userport interface
* Support for swiftlink RS232 interface
* Virtual consoles
* Hardware accelerated 80 columns console on C128 in C64 mode
* Native C128 version available
* (simple) command shell (with history function)
* Support for CBM (IEC bus) devices (e.g. 1541)
* Open source, comes with all needed (cross-) development tools
* Widely configurable for your needs
* LNG can be terminal and terminal server (RS232)
* Support for SLIP packet encapsulation over serial links
* Support for PPP (packet encapsulation) over serial links
* Loop back packet driver for off-line client-server trials
* TCP/IP stack (and clients for telnet, ftp and pop3
* A simple web server (experimental)
* Support for the DFC77 receiver (radio-transmitted time signal in europe/germany)
* Support for the Smart Watch Chip (another real time clock)
* Support for IDE64 RTC
* Support for IEC bus via 64net/2
* Support for o65 object format (experimental)
* Online help system
*
I certainly find that most software customers aren't the least bit interested in efficiency.
;->
They want... FEATURES!!!
Anybody fancy coding a brand new version of the mighty Geos to run on this beast?
Er...you want a list??
Even better... recreate a BBC Micro, with Co-Processor module on the same motherboard! The original dual-processor PC! (I should know, I owned such a beast long ago, AND I have a hard drive too. Was pensioned of to some guy at Herriot-Watt University, to go and do weather monitoring or suchlike out in the Outer Hebrides)
:)
The scary part is, you'd probably have plenty of buyers for it too...
-MT.
It also finaly can end the Apple IIgs vs commodore war. This thing would kill a IIgs! So there! AHAHAHA!
-- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
A demo version of GEOS, aka PC-GEOS, is available here. The original version was created by the same people who made Commodore GEOS over at (the soon to be defunct) Geoworks. My co-op project back in '89 was done on GeoProgrammer, as part of in-house testing for that environment.
Yes, emulators (especially VICE) emulate the C64 almost perfectly. Yes, an old breadbox is only one tenth of the price on eBay. But the C1 is neither.
If you've ever worked with the real hardware you'll know that emulators can't replace the real deal. They're great development tools, and they're great for playing games when the boss isn't watching, but just as MAME is not a dedicated Galaga cabinet, VICE is not a real C= machine.
So why not just get a breadbox on eBay then? Well, I suggest that you do, it's an excellent machine. But then you'll also need to buy a 1541 disk drive to run games and demos. If you want to transfer software to or from the system you'll also need an X1541 cable or a 3.5" disk drive. And don't forget an S-video monitor, as you can't use a normal VGA monitor.
The C1 makes it possible to use common PC hardware like VGA monitors and IDE drives. It has 20 times the CPU power and 512 times the RAM, which is great for us that actually use the machine for things like coding (assemble and test in less than 1 second, sweet). Another important point is that when the original C= hardware starts to disintegrate, the C1 will still be there, as it's all just VHDL code.
This is not a machine for everyone, but there's certainly a market for it. There are still a lot of active C= users in the world, more than you'd think.
READY.
#
So, uh, shouldn't they call it the Commodore 32768?
SIGFEH
Perhaps the most interesting factoid about the Commodore One is that its designer, Jeri Ellsworth, is hawt! :-)
The C-One website has not been updated since a few weeks. Many changes have been made in the past, especially changes that make the board a lot more versatile.
First there's to mention the SD-Ram socket. The board is not limited to 32 megs of memory, but it can take any 3.3V SD-Ram up to 1GB. Video/multimedia memory is also expandable to up to 128megs with a SIMM module.
We have added a CPU slot. The board is no longer limited to a 65816 at 20Mhz. We can supply all kinds of different CPUs that have been used on all the classic homecomputers.
Of course, the "glue logic" of the thing must be different for every CPU. This is achieved with completely re-configurable logic. As opposed to mainstream computers where each chip has it's dedicated task, the C-One's two main chips have programmable behaviour. That means we can not only clone the C-64, but also a VIC-20, C-16, Atari 2600, Sinclair ZX81, Spectrum, Ohio Scientific Challenger, and we've even looked into the Super Nintendo. The possibilities are infinite. Get us the documentation of your favourite 8-bit machine, and with a little luck, you'll be able to download a core file for the mainboard that turns the C-One into a clone of that computer.
So please - do not see the C-One as a Commodore 64 replica. It's a giant leap in computer technology, having the opportunity to change the behaviour of the hardware on the fly, to adapt it's behaviour to the needs of the application that currnetly runs. This adaption is dynamic, the computer does not have to be restarted. Think of it as loading a sub-program, it's just that loading this sub-program equals installing a new add-on card on the board.
The C-One aims at those who are into computer nostalgia, as well as those who want it for educational purpose. We'll supply all kinds of material for you to start VHDL programming, and instantly try it out on this board. Start modifying the board without soldering, extend the capabilities of your video output, or even switch to a completely different computer on the fly.
This computer is not for the usual point-and-click user. It's going back to the times where each and every bit of the machine was documented, and forward to a new kind of computer technology: Re-configurable hardware.
As for emulators, they're out of the question. Since the hardware is re-configurable, it would have to be emulated at the gate level. To do this in real-time, we calculated that it would take a 24THz (24000 GHz) computer to emulate the smaller FPGA with 30.000 gates in realtime. The bigger of the two chips has 100.000 gates. I think it'll take a few years until the C-One becomes obsolete.
Jens Schönfeld
(individual Computers, we're bringing the C-One to the market)
The Amiga One is actually being produced, 4.0 is looking pretty cool and there is a new Commodore 64.
What's the temperature in hell again?
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
This is a hobby-computer. One nice thing about the good old 8-bit days was that we could control any selfmade hardware, say, through the userport. The geek port of the C-One has some freely programmable lines, some clocks, and the possibility to map periphal chips into the computer's memory without having to be a PCI expert. Be honst, what computer gives this opportunity?
Jens Schönfeld
http://wcm.krone.at/krone/C9/S12/A3/object_id__219 0/hxcms/
Well hell if an article writer of an important newspaper thought it was newsworthy I think we've got a winner no matter what anybody says. Maybe not in the US but in Germany where it was made and the other european countries where it was a big hit (especially eastern european countries like hungary or poland) it will be a success.
Before we start with why buy a C-One for $250 if I can buy an Intel MB for $75 and a 1 Ghz CPU and 512 MB of SD-RAM for $250~300. The C-One is not just a Commodore but a variety of computer platforms when you consider that the C-One is completely reprogrammable down to the hardware itself. The key components that makes this computer - Reconfigurable - is the two FPGA chips.
Ok, some of you will ask what is FPGA ? FPGA is an acroynm for Field Programmable Gate Array. Now what does this mean ? The FPGA is a chip that can be reprogrammed to function as different kinds of controllers/ICs/processors to meet a specific task. For more info about FPGAs, check out http://www.altera.com
The C-One is not only a c64 and many other platforms by simply reconfiguring the FPGAs and adding a CPU card (such as a Z80 CPU card) if the computer that you are trying to emulate needs something other than a 65c816. It may even be a custom platform of its own (customizable even by you).
If your concern is to buy the C-One to replace your existing PC. Then you got the wrong idea by thinking "replace". Try thinking compliment/add.
If you are truly fed up with Windows, C-One would be a fine replacement computer.
The C-One is targeted for those who want to have fun with the computer. You are open to be creative. Sure it can be used for serious use.
Think of it as a new platform that you can have part in shaping its future. Be involved and have fun. I even have some projects that I will love to work on for this machine. The ultimate point depends on how you want to do.
is that having a blue screen was considfered a good thing.
Too many zeros, not enough ones