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DALnet For Chatting, Not File Sharing
PFAK writes "DALnet IRC Network, formerly the world's largest IRC Network has announced that the IRC network has implemented a new "policy" that will phrohibit "Using a channel for the primary purpose of facilitating the transfer of files", as of March 1st, 2003. This will be another staggering blow for the formerly largest IRC network in the world, this comes after one of the many suprises on DALnet, such as the recent DDoS attacks against the network."
I thought it was for idling and sitting in DCC queues? What are these "chat" channels you speak of?
What do you mean, this will be another staggering blow? They're improving their service. IRC is for chat. I don't see how sending away warez kiddies damages their network, let alone how it deals them a "staggering blow".
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
someone's too used to typing "ph33r" on DALnet...
I don't know how you got +1 Insightful: they got DDoS'd before they restricted file trading. The log as to what happened right before the DDoS started is here.
Since when does anyone has the "right" on filesharing over IRC??
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
Well, if there was no point, why would the (arguably) largest IRC network have a very strict anti-warez rules? That's Quakenet, by the way - and yes, it is my choice of IRC network.
Clearly there is a demand for a warez-free (OK, no specific file transfer channel) network. And yes, I've just continued the trend and said "Don't worry, the IRC network I use rocks, even if Dalnet sucks!" ;)
As a former DALnet operator / administrator and a rather long time user I can say that DALnet is simply continuing to shoot at an already bloody and bullet-riddled foot.
Way back in the day there was a lot of talk about banning child pornography (which is something that everyone can actually agree is morally wrong, as well as illegal). It was decided not to, on what I think was good advice, because the second you become a moderator of content you open yourself up to legal trouble if you fail to properly moderate that content.
Now some might say that DALnet isn't actually moderating any content, because it's worded in such a way that it simply disallows the channels. However, to disallow these channels DALnet must explicitly moderate content. It must find this 'abusive' content and put an end to it, thereby making it a moderator.
It is, in fact, the official position of DALnet staff (or so I hear) that this is the belief on the network. That the way this clause in their AUP is written prevents them from being considered a moderator. I think this is a big mistake on their part, and will ultimately come back to haunt them.
That said, DALnet has a long history of being utterly incapable of enforcing their own policies, and this is just one more of them that will probably not ever see any real enforcement. For example, DALnet was (when people could get on it) the haven of mass advertising, not to mention a breeding ground for drones and IRC worms. Despite some futile attempts to stop these activities, DALnet has been basically completely incapable of doing any serious work on these fronts.
To add to this, DALnet and its sponsors have been beleaguered by kiddies with a massive array of DDoS weaponry. They have utterly failed to address the issues which have, in large part, led to their current troubles. The main issue is that DALnet harbors a group of extremely absuive operators who basically take enjoyment out of pissing off the kiddies because they feel "invulnerable." Instead of actually just removing these destructive individuals, DALnet has kept them on and "told them not to do it anymore." Basically tantamount to saying "we don't care, keep DDoSing us."
I don't think that the few people left on DALnet right now need to worry too much about this policy, it won't likely be enforced much, if at all.
you can take the road that takes you to the stars...
Gag, now I get to read tons of posts by warez kiddies talking about how stupid this new policy is.
Actually, it is a great move. Why should their resources be used for channels that title themselves "MP3 trading" or "0-Day Warez", where the only point is to trade files (mostly illegal). IRC (Internet Relay CHAT) is for online chatting. The only 'chatting' that goes on in the warez channels is queue updates.
Seriously, when was the last time you saw a "Public domain graphics" channel or "0-Day Open Source Trading". If I do a channel list to find interesting channels, I really don't want to have my list filled up with warez crap channels.
It's not like they are taking away the ability to send a file to someone. You still can DCC someone a file, just channels where the sole purpose is to trade files is prohibited.
Bravo!
Is this the first time a #channel is slashdotted?
These *illegal file sharing* channels to suddenly start saying they are Trivia channels, that just happen to share files secondary....
Because god knows every channel on Dalnet seems to have some lamo trivia bot or three....
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,
Seriously, since when did DCCs impair or otherwise affect the normal operation of Dalnet? They don't run over the "dalnet", but apart from a few simple negotiation messages it runs completely separate of it. That D in DCC stands for Direct, you know.
And unlike Napster/KaZaA, IRC does not come with built-in search, a good file server, minimum shared, quotas or "ranking" of contribution. Nothing that should bring them at legal risk unless paper manufacturers gets sued for what you can write on the paper.
Also, will this mean that OPs will start logging DCCs and crossreference with the channels you're on to determine if a channel is being used to transfer files? Or is this some "Uh, yeah if we see 'em" policy? Because the first would be a rather big invasion of privacy, the second would simply lead to more hidden channels...
But I suppose everyone that cared about chatting has found a more stable home than Dalnet in the last month or two anyway (we did), why not scare off the file traders (that usually only care about making their sends/gets connected) too...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Exactly. I hate it when I can't find a good cybersex channel.
I for one welcome our new SCOviet Russian overlords to whom all our base are belong.
Everyone is starting to use bit torrent anyways. Sure, a lot of it goes on in irc, but also on websites, instant message etc.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,
Lets see.
Real time group collaboration - As often seen there are millions of channels out there which are specialized around some subject. From Web Design to Hardware, Music production to graphics, Linux, General Help, BSD, Magic The Gathering, FPS gaming, Every other kind of gaming.. I can list channel designations all morning here. File sharing is not the final frontier in IRC.
It's a great place to kill time, learn, troubleshoot stuff, get relevant help, etc. IRC is essentially free tech support.
For example, couple of years ago I was vacationing in Palm Springs, in the middle of nowhere. I was in the Hotel Room surfing the web at 4am in the morning with my laptop and didn't want to drive all the way to the closest supermarket to buy cigarettes. All I had was a small package of really expensive british tobacco and no rolling paper. I got on IRC, and joined #help on Efnet. Asked them how to deal with the situation. Some guy suggested to tear out the last remaing pages from the Bible (found in every hotel room), because the pages are really thin and burn like zig-zags. Well, that night I smoked half of that tobacco, and at the same time felt closer to God.
Thank you IRC!
I see this as a huge breath of fresh air, after having to inhale the fumes of chain-smoking file-sharing 31337 script kiddies who clog the network with absurd questions about how to lock down their channel from other "haxors", so they can share the latest Britney and UT patch file.
;)
Biased? Just a little peeved?
You better believe it.
I spent 6 years as an administrator on Dalnet, in the #1 help channel, often spending as much as 8-10 hours at a stretch JUST TYPING.
I have helped literally thousands of anonymous (nicknamed) people come and go about Dalnet, from 1994 - 2000, and have watched with sickening disdain how polluted it got over time.
It was bad enough to have the hordes of AOL users find Dalnet when they first got on the "real" internet, but these days, it's chock full of kids who have NO IDEA how online communities -should- behave.
Those that used BBS's in the day (anything after 1992 don't even bother posting.) will remember what I mean about netiquette and online communities.
I stand up, and applaud DalNet for taking this action. It's about time the filth that has clogged a valuable service has been flushed out of the system.
And I know you're curious as to what nickname I used on DalNet.
I am Duranos. I was one of the original help crew who volunteered their time in setting up #irchelp on Dalnet, still miss quite a few people to this day. I still check in from time to time, but have moved onto other avenues of internet life.
Flame away slashbots.
user@host$ diff
Actually dont use openprojects at all. Either use freenode.net, which is what OPN morphed into, or visit www.oftc.net and grab their server list.
OFTC (Open and Free Technology Commmunity) is all about opensource and code sharing. Essentially it was created when OPN started asking for money, and has a elected council to run the network. As far as i know, we have no warez channels.
Sure they have a right to do what they want with THEIR network.. They can censor it if they want, even though that does get into a sticky legal issue. Once you start, you are libel for content under your control.
Personally I think its a moral mistake to enforce their beliefs on others when they offer a free service, but that is their choice.
But you sir are an ass for your attitude toward people that do things other then simple chat.
Not all 'transfers' are illegal in all parts of the global network. If they are in your area, then consult your legislature, that's not my problem.
People that do use IRC for transfers don't leech any bandwidth, the key component to DCC is *DIRECT*, it does NOT load the IRC network at all. In reality they use LESS resources then a 8 hour a day 'chatter'.
Whiners? Not really, just people that would like to keep what they have now, ( or expand features )if you don't speak out you loose it, regardless of the topic.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
And for a variety of reasons. Other posts have mentioned the benefit you get in bandwidth from kicking out the MP3 hogs. But I also think there's another motivation for DALnet, one that will push other networks to follow suit.
Legal Action.
Surely, the RIAA knows about the abundance of MP3 and warez sites on IRC. They've gone after everyone else. It stands to reason that they'll come after IRC sooner or later. And like Napster, they have a central authority they can go to in order to take action.
This policy is a smart pre-emtptive move on DALnet's part.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Because of recent difficulties maintaining a connection to Dalnet, and because of the (understandable) wish for discretion on the part of Dalnet management, some of the assertions in this posting are unconfirmed and unsupported. This nonwithstanding, the following speculation is offered in the hope of illuminating to the best of my ability to percieve it, what's been really going on:
At about the middle of January this year, Dalnet servers were hit with a wave of massive DDoS attacks, quantified as greater than 1G per second per server with sweepingly damaging results.
There never were that many Dalnet login servers to begin with. The attack wave was successful in disabling all of them, and keeping them out of service entirely for over 7 days.
To complicate matters further, there have been credible reports on ircnews.com, irc-junkie.org and elsewhere of a certain degree of dissention within Dalnet, and the senior sysadmins and management of the companies providing server hosting. I mention this with reluctance, because the problem is bad enough anyway, but it is nevertheless true that the operational list of Dalnet servers available at this moment is quite different from the array online before the attack wave began, and that some of the defections are permanent, including some of the largest hubs.
Dalnet have commented officially on their website newsletter that the volume of DDoS garbage going into their hosts' servers was sufficient to not only knock Dalnet offline, but bad enough to interfere with the hosts' other (revenue earning) internet services.
At present also, login servers are resolving under slightly different names, making joining problematic for large numbers of users still, but as of last week at least, the expectation of a reasonably reliable login is plausible.
Dalnet is probably correct in having determined that their attackers method of acquiring zombies is by the use of worms, trojans.......use your favorite term - by sending files like XXXSallyXXX.GIF.vbs, or whatever, and that these OwN3d systems are the ones being enlisted to carry out DDoS waves.
They note with equal accuracy that a handful of filesharing channels are some of the most crowded on their network, and may be not carefully enough managed, and have hypothecated these as being most likely sources of widespread damage and infection, to several thousand users' systems, to Dalnet, other IRC networks and the internet overall.
The sociology of a filesharing channel is also a factor in this policy change. Where else in the world wide world would a user be so inclined to accept, click on and tinker with a file they acquired five minutes ago from an anonymous stranger with absolutely no verification? Windoze users are requested to NOT post lengthy replies babbling on and on about their firewalls. They're meaningless in this context. The file transferred and was run. Think about it.
All Dalnet have done, is announce they intend to shut down these channels. They had to do something.
Does this mean they're trying to ban filesharing via Dalnet alltogether? No. Even if the IRC protocol permitted this, which it doesn't, their response at server level is thought through and restrained in scope, and respected here accordingly.
Elsewhere on this thread it has been suggested that this decision is motivated by the desire to take away IRC users' freedom. I refute this with the comment that the freedom to unknowingly download a trojan to allow your billyware to be used in DDoS attacks is an unfortunate and unsuitable choice for a cause to defend in the name of liberty.
give me a