Safari Beta Updated

LenE writes "Safari has been updated to Beta 6, and is available via Software Update. New in this version is XML support, more speed, and many bug fixes. The download is 2.4 MB and doesn't require a restart." From the notes: "The Safari Update 2-12-03 improves the compatibility with popular web sites based on Safari user feedback, further improves the performance of loading web pages and Flash content, adds support for XML, increases standards conformance and delivers improved application stability. The update also enables access to web sites that offer self-signed security certificates."

Comments

Many bugs were fixed, and CSS improved *a lot*

[King Babar]

Yes, you can run the w3c.org CSS1 tests now. But more importantly from my perspective (:-)) is that Eric Meyer's css / edge stuff now almost completely works. The only abject failure there is the second "ragged float" demo, and even that one is pretty close.

As far as styling XML goes, your XML apparently does have to have the DOCTYPE stuff set up correctly. This means you get no joy with the stuff on the w3c Styling XML site; safari won't display the xml files there at all.

Oh yeah: it's a bit faster...not that you're likely to notice.

Re:Many bugs were fixed, and CSS improved *a lot*

[WatertonMan]

It also fixes that annoying bug with pulldown buttons for bookmarks. It the prior versions you could sometimes click on one button and have the button beside it come down.

Sadly there still is spotty support for context menus, especially in the bookmark panes.

File size decreases

[wcbrown]

As noted by Bill Bumgartner, file size of the package has gone from 7.2MB to 6.9MB.

I haven't seen file size increase with upgrades. The Safari developers should be proud.

Mostly good, some bad

[backlonthethird]

It seems to do exactly what it claims to, though I'm finding the last beta handles my page refreshes better. This version seems to just keep reloading them over and over, which means it isn't loading at all.

I would hold off on this download.

Tabbed Browsing

[Cokelee]

I'm not sure if anyone realizes this, but Apple typically does NOT like Multiple Document Interfaces -- essentially what tabbed browsing is. For this reason I do NOT see them adopting tabs, ever. Even if every other KHTML browser has them. I may be wrong, but I believe using tabs would be a design flaw to Apple.

I'm still reading through their HIG to see if they warn against it.

Re:Tabbed Browsing

[code shady]

While I haven't seen any explicit warnings against using tabs with the brushed metal interface (but then, I haven't read all of the HIG), i also believe that apple will NOT implement tabbed browsing in safari.

The textured windows where "designed specifically for use by--and is therefore best suited to--applications that provide an interface for a digital peripheral, such as a camera, or an interface for managing data shared with digital peripherals, such as the Address Book application" or "... appropriate for applications that strive to re-create a familiar physical device". I think its the second one that is the most important here, but both uses play a role.

Take a look at iTunes. Its got one main window, an that window is the main focus of the app. In this case, the window is supposed to mimic the features and feel of, say, a CD player or the equivilant. Same with the calculator. Each of these one main windows contains all the controls you need, in one place where they can be easily accessed. In this context, the brushed window is approriate, because you only need one simple window for your interface.

Now, if this is the case, then why is it used in the Address book app or Safari? Well, its pretty simple. While you are not trying to mimic an actual peripheral, you ARE focusing soley on one particular type of data. Be it addresses, or a web page, each single window has a specific single focus.

Basically, each metallic window needs only focus on one thing. That one thing could be a web page, an address card, or a playlist. Putting tabs in safari would break that metaphor, which is something that apple would most likely not do.

Tabs, Maybe.

[Cokelee]

Some applications are not document-based. Such applications typically still have at least one main window, which can use the standard Aqua document window appearance and features.

Apple HIG

Re:Tabs, Maybe.

[NaugaHunter]

It isn't spelled out directly there, but from previous times I worked on MacOS apps the guideline summaries have pretty much said "One document, one window". It is consistent with their original desktop theme - each window was a document and sort of appeared as a sheet of paper.

And before someone else points them out, iTunes is more like an appliance - i.e. your CD player. iPhoto is an electronic photo album. iDVD and iMovie are film editors. Essentially the distinction is they don't work with single documents. Safari, however, deals with would could be called active newspapers or magazines. If you want to read a different article, it's in a different magazine, and either replaces your current document or is another document altogether.

I'm not trying to over-defend their choices. I just wanted to point out they are fairly consistent. Sometimes the distinctions are vague (e.g. what would Mail be?), but in the case of Safari I thinking they are going to stick with the document line of thought, and in this case it makes sense to me.

Shortcuts

[slenver]

Apple+arrows now work for back and forward pages..... I just hate having to reach for the mouse when browsing 'with one hand'.....

Re:Shortcuts

[Graymalkin]

Command+[ and Command+] have always worked for forward and back. You sir are no professional.

Re:Shortcuts

[hexdcml]

why what you doin with you other hand?

Re:Shortcuts

[wrenkin]

Why is this rated Informative? If anything, it's Too Much Informative.

whoops...banking gone for me

[djupedal]

My online banking worked via Safari until this new version.

For online access to secure sessions within wellsfargo.com, you must use an approved operating system and browser.

Time to enlighten WFB's tech dept. once again. I don't feel like forcing a spoof.

Re:whoops...banking gone for me

[coolmacdude]

Change the user agent to IE, it will work fine.

Re:Define "restart"

[kyrre]

iTunes, Quicktime, certain securty updates. Probably more.

Gel

[Graymalkin]

What the hell is up with Safari and UBB? I can't seem to log onto many UBB powered sites using Safari, are there any special tricks to get this to work? I was hoping with this release I might be able to not use OW or IE to post to UBB boards but I guess I'll just have to wait a bit longer. This is pretty much the only real downside I've personally come across with Safari, everything else I've wanted to do it has worked fine and fast. Is there a actuallyWorkWithUBB flag in the plist I need to set or something?

I've tried everything available through Safari's interface including enabling popup windows, allowing cookies from everyone, and allowing every form of script and plug-in to run. So far I've had big fat zero luck. And yes I've submitted bug reports, including the page's source and any pertinent details of my particular setup.

tabs good

[djupedal]

The HIG, as I recall, doesn't mention tabs as evil. While Apple may not deploy tabs on the system level, we can look to Excel for tabbed worksheets as a long standing example, and to Airport Admin for a more recent usage. For a more public example, you only need to visit Apple.com

Safari will have tabs...sooner or later, and Cupertino will not slide into the Pacific as a result.

Re:tabs good

[Cokelee]

The HIG, as I recall, doesn't mention tabs as evil. While Apple may not deploy tabs on the system level, we can look to Excel for tabbed worksheets as a long standing example, and to Airport Admin for a more recent usage. For a more public example, you only need to visit Apple.com

Safari will have tabs...sooner or later, and Cupertino will not slide into the Pacific as a result.

Excel was NOT created by Apple, it was created by MICROSOFT.

The Airport Admin software CANNOT be document-oriented it contains NO documents

Apple's website is a SINGLE document. Every tab is not a NEW window it is a LINK to another page. Web Design and UI's are not equal.

Also, I wasn't being a sensationalist. I didn't call tabs evil, and I didn't say Apple's beloved home at Infinite Loop would slide into the Pacific Ocean. I simply said they don't implement MDIs, and ya know what, they don't.

Re:tabs good

[jeffehobbs]

Apple's website is a SINGLE document.

That's one long document.

~jeff

Re:You forgot to mention tabs, so I will.

[trouser]

Nobody *needs* tabs. But once I got into the habit of using them I found them invaluable and wouldn't want to return to tab free browsing.

Tabs allow me to group related pages in one window. eg. When I read Slashdot I often open interesting looking linked articles in the background, intending to read them once I'm finished with Slashdot. Sometimes I'd find these windows hours later, minimised or hidden, and wonder why I'd opened them and how I got there. Now they are all tabs in a window whose first tab is Slashdot. This makes the context obvious.

The same applies to use of search engines. Search for the thing that interests you, open each lead in a new tab in the current window. All search results end up opened in the same window and are therefore linked by context.

very useful memory aid. I'm not getting any younger.

banking gone-possible fix

[ihatewinXP]

When I upgraded to beta60 my online banking also turned off. I was able to update the .plist manually on this machine and everything went back to normal. - Just send me your info (bank name, account number, etc...oh dont forget SS#) and I can fix it for you!

I turned off software update

[skinfitz]

Who needs it when /. announces all Apple updates?

Incidentally the apple /. gfx appear to be broken in safari now.

Tabbed Windows solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Here you can see screenshot mock-ups of my idea for tabs:

http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/dennis.scp/s/safa ri

The idea is NOT to add tabs inside a window. But to place a new window at the exact same place as your previous window and let any obscured windows pop up a tab.

So instead of indenting that new window to the lower right to reveal a clickable border as used today, I say let the windows behind the current window pop up a tab to show their name and icon. The windows stay independent and the screen has less clutter than with today's jumpy stacking system. Power-users can cycle the windows in a tab-like fashion using the [option] key.

Rendering engine changes in detail

[ollie_ob]

Mark Pilgrim's excellent blog Dive Into Mark has a very comprehensive list of changes to the Webcore rendering engine. The permanent link is here. I'm impressed with how quickly he's managed to list these changes seeing as it only came out today!

One change I've noticed is Safari no longer freezes for a minute when loading certain webpages. Another nice change is that stylesheet change on Dave Hyatt's weblog actually works now. Dave is ironically one of the Safari developers, so it's just as well!!!

Re:so far so good.

[ollie_ob]

Just to note this is not a User-Interface update, it is more focused to fixing bugs in and extending the Webcore rendering engine used at Safari's heart. This is a beta browser, so it should be feature complete, and there should only be bug-fixes between here and a 1.0 final release. Wait for 1.1 if you want tabs ;-)

Answering your question, tabs allow multiple webpages to be viewed in a single window - a little like how Safari's preferences box works - click on an icon to get a different 'page' of options, but all in the same window.

Mozilla does do tabbed browsing, Command-T opens tabs instead of windows.

In my opinion (and we all have strong opinions- this is Slashdot after all!) I found tabs useful only because there was a 5 pause when switching between windows (not tabs) in Mozilla. But Safari's so damn fast I'm quite happy Command-~ -ing between 10 or so windows, without any noticeable pause - and that's on a 600MHz iBook.

drag & drop and improved <OBJECT> suppor

[tim1724]

You can now drag & drop text from browser windows. (It previously only allowed dragging links and images.) Unfortunately it uses the silly Cocoa-style delay before allowing you to drag text. (When will Apple finally fix text dragging in Cocoa?!)

It also now supports embedding HTML with the <OBJECT> tag, although it will stop drawing the embedded content if you use the Back/Forward buttons. Also, if you click in the <OBJECT> and scroll it with the keyboard, then clicking on links outside of the <OBJECT> sometimes doesn't work unless you first click outside of the <OBJECT> area and scroll the main page with they keyboard. (weird, but it happens .. check out the W3 CSS1 test suite pages)

Still no command-option-w support

[mattkime]

As any long time mac user knows, command-option-w closes allthe windows in almost ANY mac app made in the past 12 years.

yet safari does not do this.

Re:Still no command-option-w support

[Twirlip of the Mists]

As any Mac OS X user knows, command-option-w no longer closes all open windows. Option-clicking the close button does, however.

Try it with TextEdit; that's the canonical Mac OS X document-based application. All other document-based application should behave like TextEdit does.

Re:You forgot to mention tabs, so I will.

[jsmith38]

if you have to have tabs browsing, check out Pith

Saving RAM: An argument for tabbed browsing

[elliotj]

According to an off-the-cuff test I just performed, tabbed browsing can cut your RAM requirements in half and greatly speed up your system.

On my Mac I opened Chimera and filled up the window with as many tabs as it would allow (16 in a single window). All windows displayed the Slashdot mainpage. My Slashdot prefs are set to show all stories from all sections.

I checked the system usage in the Process Viewer app:

Navigator %CPU 9.00 %Memory 11.20

I then closed all the windows and did the same thing, this time opening 16 SEPARATE windows. Again with Slashdot's mainpage loaded in each.

Process Viewer showed:

Navigator %CPU 9.20 %Memory 22.40

So, according to this unscientific off-the-cuff test, you cut your RAM requirements in half by using tabs. YMMV.

I noticed this the other day when I opened over 50 different images in different windows. My Mac almost ground to a halt. I then opened the same images in tabs (in only a few windows ... again Chimera limits you to 16 tabs per window), and my performance was great.

So, to all those who think tabbed browsing is purely a matter of personal preference, I suggest that there is at least a reasonable performance based argument for it.

(the productivity arguments are even more compelling IMHO, but I won't get into those)

Safari already has SLOW tabs

[localman]

Well, sort of. There are such a large group of people who don't want anyone in the world to have tabs that you'd think that tabs or anything like them were abhorrent.

But as far as I can tell any criticism that can be aimed at tabs can also be aimed at Safari's bookmark bar. Across the top of the brower there are a bunch of horizontal text buttons that let me select different documents to view in the same window. Or in other words, tabs.

The big differences are that the bookmark bar doesn't have the "tab look", it doesn't keep the page in memory, and to add one from a link you have to option-click, select "add bookmark" then click "OK". So they are basically a slow and inconvenient tab system. Although they are persistent across browser sessions, which is kinda cool.

Yes, I understand that they can't really be used efficiently that way, but that's not the point. The point is that as a UI concept Safari's current bookmark bar and the proposed (and much maligned) tabs are cousins anyways. So anyone spouting that tabs are an inconceivably bad UI design is just reacting to surface characteristics and religion

Cheers