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PCGen to Charge for Data Files

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the well-isn't-that-nice dept.

ChrisDolan writes "The folks who benevolently dictate the creation of PCGen, a D20 character generator tool (e.g. for D&D), are going to start charging for downloads of data files. This comes after a long series of talks with Wizards of the Coast. The PCGen code will continue to be LGPL, but some of the data files (a separate download) will be more encumbered than just OGL (Open Gaming License). The specific data files that will cost are ones that were never released under OGL and have WotC IP in them. Details on the Code Monkeys site." PCGen is a nifty app, but all this stuff annoys me. I bought all the 3rd ed books already after all... it seems stingy to charge users twice.

36 of 158 comments (clear)

  1. Is this really a surprise? by TopShelf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) Charging for content that contains corporate IP, and

    2) A company finding another way to try and squeeze a few dollars of revenue during tough times.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    1. Re:Is this really a surprise? by 56ker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm going to point out at all the Quake and Doom mods that were sold commerically on CDs. You were just paying for custom characters, maps etc - and you could get them for free. However the commercial efforts were usually more professional. Hosting files on any popular website is expensive in bandwidth. They're probably just trying to make ends meet. What would people have said if they'd put up banner ads instead - or even worse popups?

      --


      Video Game cheats, hints a
    2. Re:Is this really a surprise? by The+Mgt · · Score: 3, Interesting
      However the commercial efforts were usually more professional.


      Threewave CTF ? Team Fortress ?
    3. Re:Is this really a surprise? by Saxerman · · Score: 5, Informative
      Hosting files on any popular website is expensive in bandwidth. They're probably just trying to make ends meet.

      These closed source data files were already typed up and hosted on sourceforge before WotC stepped in and put a halt to their distribution. This means fans of the d20 system already did the work to write up the data files using the dead tree books they already paid for. They were then hosting it on a system which WotC had nothing to do with, and didn't have to pay for. Fans were already filling this gap for free.

      The key here, I think, is control. Wizards is afraid that by allowing the guys at PcGen to distribute their IP for free, people would lose interesting in buying the dead tree versions. To try and counter this threat, much of the write ups in the fan created content contained notes such as "As defined on page 231 of the Players Handbook". This compromise wasn't good enough, it seems.

      As another point of interest, Wizards already created and sells their own version of a Character Creator for the d20 system which basically competes directly with the open source PcGen. You can download the demo version for free from their website. As you say, the commercial effort is a lot more professional than PcGen, but PcGen has a lot more features.

      --

      A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.

  2. Why, back in my day... by TopShelf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we didn't need any fancy computer to whip up characters. Just 3d6, a pencil and paper. Most of the iterations since have just been sales-driven product releases.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    1. Re:Why, back in my day... by sheetsda · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have to say I like third edition much better than second. It's much easier to play and to convince newbies to play because mysterious concepts like THAC0 have been eliminated in favor of a more intuitive system. I wouldn't say it was sheerly a sales-motivated release, it was also an improvement.

      On a semirelevant note, I modified an IRC bot I wrote to roll arbitrary numbers of dice of arbitrary sides and print totals to the channel so if for some reason you're playing over IRC you don't have to rely on any person to roll dice, this way everyone can see the roll. See here.

  3. Charge users twice? heh heh by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2, Informative

    In case you haven't noticed, Wizards of the Coast is just about to release a whole new edition of D&D--or at least half of one. 3rd Revised, or 3.5th as it's come to be called. So everyone who shelled out for the PHB, DMG, and MM is going to have to buy them all over again.

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
  4. Who wants to bet... by Drakin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That you'll be able to download them off your favorite P2P client in a short time?

    Boy... Wotc is sure grabbing for money now... this play, as well as the upcoming revised editions of the core books... which in all likely hood will not get the same reduction in price to start with as the un revised version did...

  5. Waaahhh... by Evangelion · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Really now -- how much do RPG gamers typically spend on thier book collections (generally measured in bookshelf-yards -- I'm only up to about 4 feet or so, but I've been slacking off lately)? I don't even want to START adding up the cover prices of those books. Is a little extra cash to get the convinience of some of that data on a computer really going to hurt the pocket book?

    Anyway, I don't see anyone complaining about the fact that you have to pay for all of the GURPS character creators, as SJ Games certainly won't let you give thier data away for free. But it happens to a d20 chargen, and people start whining? Whatever.

    1. Re:Waaahhh... by Drakin · · Score: 2

      I think the complaining is because there's a number of other d20 companies who did allow the PCGen team to use their data, just a few holdouts like WotC, who were tollerant at first, then came down onto PCGen...

    2. Re:Waaahhh... by rknop · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anyway, I don't see anyone complaining about the fact that you have to pay for all of the GURPS character creators, as SJ Games certainly won't let you give thier data away for free.

      This is demonstrably false:

      http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/utilities/

      It can't be "free" in the "libre" sense, no. But from the way you state it ("have to pay") it's very clear that you are talking about "free as in beer", and the very links on SJGames' own site prove that you're incorrect about what they'll let you do.

      -Rob

  6. Doesn't Suprise Me by Lord+Apathy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Giving away code is one thing but giving away someone else copyright is another. I imagine if they are going to be distributing stuff that is in the 3rd edition rules they had to make some sort of deal with WotC to do so. WotC is going to want some cash out of the deal so naturally Codemonkey is going to have to charge for this.

    Before people light the tourches and storm the castle lets remember WotC past. They have been a lot better company than TSR ever was with IP stuff. The cost of the downloads might be reasonable. Its no differet than when they released the code to the Quake engine but still required you to buy the data paks to run it on Linux.

    With WotC past efforts I'm willing to give them more than the doubt before I tar and feather anyone.

    --

    Supporting World Peace Through Nuclear Pacification

    1. Re:Doesn't Suprise Me by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Interesting
      imagine if they are going to be distributing stuff that is in the 3rd edition rules they had to make some sort of deal with WotC to do so.


      Uh, that's a big no, actually. Game rules are not copyrightable. They can be patented, but as far as D&D goes, the time for that passed long ago. Any copyright that exists is only on the specific way the rules were written. Rewrite the book yourself, using different wording but preserving the same meaning, and you'd be ok. Certain terms may be trademarked, but they're easy enough to discover and work around.


      This is why the d20 license thing has been absolutely mystifying me. The only thing in it that is in the least bit worthwhile is the ability to _say_ that it's a d20 system and use that mark... but so what? You can do that for free, as fair use (n.b. trademark fair use is NOT the same thing at all as copyright fair use) permits comparisons between actual branded products, as opposed to with a thinly disguised 'Brand X.'


      So what precisely is the hold up?


      (I will agree that anyone is less litigious than TSR was, but litigiousness doesn't equal being right; check out the frontispiece in the first "Phil and Dixie" book for a good joke along these lines.)

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  7. A little offtopic... by travail_jgd · · Score: 4, Informative

    "I bought all the 3rd ed books already after all... it seems stingy to charge users twice."

    And if you want to be "current", you're going to have to buy all the 3E books again. WotC is releasing what they call 3.5E -- updates to the three core rulebooks (PHB, DMG, and MM). Going forward, only the 3.5E system will be supported.

    There is no trade-in or rebate offer for owners of the previous edition. So you're going to have to pay for 3E "twice" either way.

    1. Re:A little offtopic... by FroBugg · · Score: 4, Informative

      As I understand it, all or nearly all of the changes have been included in System Reference Document, which you can easily get for free (or maybe a couple bucks if you want to print it all out).

      Apart from fancy binding, pretty pictures, and flavor text that you can get from 3E, what are the 3.5E books gonna have that isn't here?

    2. Re:A little offtopic... by sporty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did you know that you can buy a computer today, and in 6 months, you are already obsoleted? No buybacks, not refunds.. nothing. In fact, you'd have to sell it used.

      I think people should be used to this by now. It's called, economics. No one wants to buy back tangibles that they sold you. It's your fault you bought them.. and it's your fault if you buy the newest ones.

      Besides, is the game THAT much more fun between 3.0 and 3.5? Isn't your GM supposed to make adjustments to the games when he see's fit? Hell, i've seen really random spells given out when there's a plot difficulty. I.e. "Damn, no one knows how to talk to this creature, and our guy who is multilingual is in jail." "Ok, I'm giving you a spell just so that you can understand any one language you choose, but you can only do that language. No dual tounges while you use it. But when you go back to your old language, you retain the knowledge of what you talked about. Level 5, costs xxx mp."

      And also, if you really need those books, get everyone in your group to pitch in and buy the latest ones.

      Cripes..

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    3. Re:A little offtopic... by zerocool^ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I understand why they'd do that, it makes great economic sense.

      However: The 3ed rules seem like they "just" came out, and there's lots of applications that will still use them. Neverwinter Nights, for example, prided it's self on using 3ed. Will we now also have to download or buy the next pack for NWN so that we feel up to snuff?

      But, whatever, people that deal with WOTC are used to it. Think Magic Cards - every 4 months, release a whole new set, and then after two new set releases, you can't use any older cards in Type II tournaments.

      Same Deal... you can still use the older stuff, just not in the "cool, new" tournament situations.

      --
      sig?
    4. Re:A little offtopic... by Targa · · Score: 2, Funny

      I understand that Honday is coming out with a new version of the Accord this year. If you want to keep current it'll cost ya another $25K.

    5. Re:A little offtopic... by TheNumberSix · · Score: 2, Interesting
      What _would_ be nice is if WotC set up a "send us the proof of purchase for the book and we'll email you the data files" program. Because I don't expect they expect PCGen to be a huge revenue stream anyway, if enough people were to email them stating the case politely, they might well accept.

      Let's assume they did this. Let's also assume that they don't want the hassle of opening all those envelopes and looking at proof of purchase labels. (All that does cost some kind of labor in-house, or paying a rebate-type service company to do it for you.) So they charge you a $2 handling fee.

      Is that any different than the small fee they are going to charge for the data files?

      Look at it this way, it's just a convenience fee.

      IANAL but it seems obvious to me that you can certainly make up your own datafiles from the books and use them for your own personal use.

      If you can't or don't want to be bothered, you can always pony up the couple of bucks (they claim from 1 to 5 USD in the article) and pay to download the file.
      --
      Never confuse feeling with thinking.
  8. Brilliant Q&A by Queuetue · · Score: 4, Informative

    Everyone else may have already read this, but this Q&A about Open Games is probably the most clueful thing I've read in weeks - including the open and honest justification for the creation of OG. Ver well written, credit where due, and exhibits an openness that I appreciate.

    Look at it here

  9. Re:Charge users twice? heh heh by JanneM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What do you mean "have to"? Just continue to play with the version 3 ruleset; the books won't suddenly turn into dust just because there's a new version out.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  10. Annoying, but necissary by Rydia · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sure, the fee is a pain, but I would like to stress how good a product PCGen is. I play 3 sessions a week, and although I only use PCGen for one of them (The others are an insanely complicated multi-prestige-class-class-altering-equipment-usin g monk/cleric/thing and another is essentially a crane samurai under the Rokugan d20 rules), the rest of my party in all 3 (and the DM sometimes) use it for quick, easy character generation, because it's fast, it's easy to level up your character, you have a nice backup in case your sheet turns into a dew towel and let's face it, some players are either too new to do this without some assistance (whether PCGen or another player) or just really, really suck at simple math.

    That said, I would really like PCGen to stop paying full attention to just wizards. Yes, it's D&D, d20 is the 3E system and D&D is a very important game. But I think this is a VERY good opportunity to help some excellent companies (or at least one) who are REALLY in bad shape, and have been for a long time. I'm refering, of course, to Alderac Entertainment Group, publishers of two excellent games (L5R CCG and RPG) who started after wizards and really never stood a chance in hell of unseating them, and have been sitting around getting financially beaten up because no one will give their product a second look. It would be really, really nice if PCGen would branch out and try to include a game like L5R to help a great company (who at the moment have to pay their writers something like 2 cents per word. Well, at least the one I know) and help those of us who play either Oriental Adventures or Rokugan d20 in a conventional or L5R setting. For an extra few bucks, I think that would be a good deal for everyone involved.

  11. If you have the books... by More+Karma+Than+God · · Score: 3, Informative

    And the software is open source why can't you just create the database by yourself?

    A useful open source "product" would be a data entry program designed to make the creation and editing of these databases easy.

    Sure, it's more work, but you shouldn't have any copyright issues unless you distribute the data you entered.

    --
    Go here to create your own Slashdot dis
  12. Why not let users enter their own datafiles? by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Aside from the high probability of downloading the files from elsewhere, what about giving the users the instructions on how to generate the datafiles given that they own the books? That way they would have paid for the IP already (by buying the books).

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    1. Re:Why not let users enter their own datafiles? by AlterEd · · Score: 2, Informative

      This has always been the case with PCGen. Before WotC clamped down, you could download all the datafiles that had already been done with the program, after that you were stuck with either converting old datafiles by hand, making entirely new ones by hand, or hoping beyond hope that they would actually make it through the autoconverter intact. Now that they've got a legitimate deal, you can once again download all the datafiles you like and CMP won't get sued into oblivion over copyright issues.

      Besides, the price for the datafiles has been quoted as being between 1 and 5 dollars. Big deal.

      --

      Ed Chauvin IV
  13. WotC data files.. by (H)elix1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was introduced to AD&D about fifteen years ago and played/DM'ed heavily for a few years in college. What stuck, however, was mapping the game mechanics into whatever the programming language or technology I was learning. I think I've done something similar in Pascal, C, C++, VB, Java, data in XML, DOS, Windows, *nix, QT, and PocketPC platforms.

    That said, my god how tunes change. I remember when TSR was trying to say they had a patent and/or copyright to the game mechanics and probability tables in alt.rec.adnd.utils (? been too long) The community slammed them hard, and much like slashdot's armchair lawyer'ing - the general consensus was they could get bent on the data charts. The copy for a fireball description was protected by copyright, but a method for calculating damage by rolling 1d6 for each level of the mage? No way! Well, with current one-click patent rulings, I'm sure it is...

    If people play, they will buy the books. I've got one of the TSR 'Core Rules' CD - A character generator and all the core books in RTF and a few other formats. Even the cheapest of the bastards went off and purchased a PHB (or stole mine), rather printing the file and make a bootleg copy . I still prefer paper for gaming, but the RTF's were handy for coding.

    The in-game helper software was not created or usable. Paper and dice diminished. I watched all the folks who had played AD&D get sucked in by Magic, then Everquest rather than buy the later 2nd Edition or 3rd Edition books. I'm sure this move will bolster homegrown efforts to embrace the OGL and D20 licenses and improve the product. The technical term for this is "Pissing in the wind"...

    --
    +++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
  14. Re:Charge users twice? heh heh by Jerf · · Score: 2, Funny

    the books won't suddenly turn into dust just because there's a new version out.

    Fortunately, DRM systems will close this gaping hole in the future. Thank God for Palladium and friends!

    (and because there are morons, yes, morons who read Slashdot, "</sarcasm>". If you didn't realize that this message was sarcastic until you read this paragraph, I'm talking about you.)

  15. THEN PUT IT IN YOURSELF! by Planesdragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    *ahem*

    If you buy "the data" (which you didn't--you bought a copy of the data which includes the right to make reasonable and necessary copies for personal use), you can go ahead and put it in yourself, or pay someone else to do it for you--or pay the original company for a second copy of the data.

    Or you can do what I do, and not use Wizards of the Coast material that's not OGL'd or in the SRD. Any gamer on /. should understand my reasoning.

  16. God forbid... (-1: Dissenting Opinion) by Lendrick · · Score: 3

    PCGen is a nifty app, but all this stuff annoys me. I bought all the 3rd ed books already after all... it seems stingy to charge users twice.

    The PCGen folks work out a deal with Wizards to so that they can license material that's not covered by the Open Gaming License, and you're complaining about it.

    If you feel that strongly about not paying twice, no one is making you buy it. Additionally, you're totally free to create and distribute Open Gaming Content yourself. God forbid someone try and make a little money for their work.

  17. Bloody good news by laughing_badger · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Let's just get one thing straight - WotC were under no obligation to allow the stuff _they_own_ to be used in PCGen, ever. In the old TSR days, the code monkeys may well have been sued fur-less!

    As things stand, for the price of a couple of pints, I'm going to be able to download datafiles for PCGen (which is a bloody fine piece of work in itself) that will allow me to bash out characters and monsters that

    a) Can use all of the published features from the rules and addons

    b) Stand a hope in hell of actually being numerically correct

    Think people - when have we ever been able to do this before for the DnD world? Never.

    For the people who are whinging about WotC releasing new editions to keep money coming in - if you don't want them, don't buy them. If you do, get 'yer hand in 'yer pocket and pay for them. And if I come across anyone ripping off the datafiles once they go on sale, they'll get a vorpal enema from me!

    One happy DM!

    --
    Help children born unable to swallow - www.tofs.org.uk
  18. The Rise and Fall of TSR by Jimmy_B · · Score: 2, Informative

    People here are talking about how it's WotC's right to charge for their data, and about the "3.5th ed" of AD&D. But no one has actually brought up the reason why this is important: it's all happened before, and it didn't end well.

    D&D used to be published by a company called TSR (originally Tactical Simulation Rules, then the acronym was dropped). While the company was under the control of Gary Gygax, all was good; but when Gygax left, he was replaced by typical business types. They decided that by publishing new books, they could make more money from their existing players; so, they published an "advanced" version, AD&D, which would live alongside D&D. Some time after that, they published a 2nd edition AD&D and discontinued both D&D and AD&D. The new editions were improvements, but people weren't happy with re-purchasing and re-learning the same things repeatedly.

    Somewhere along the line, someone at TSR found out about the World Wide Web, and they weren't happy with what they found: TSR's copyrighted material, even complete texts, on personal web pages. They decided to crack down, but they came for not only infringing sites, but also legitimate fan sites. They made a public statement explaining what fan sites could and couldn't use. They made two grave mistakes; first, they tried to claim ownership over the term "hit points", by then already used universally in nearly every RPG around, and proposed a lousy substitute. Second, they said that fan sites could use monsters which come from mythology (their example: a Hydra), but not ones which are creations of TSR (Drow elves). Problem was, an edition of Webster's Unabridged Dictionary published several years before D&D had an entry under "drow", which described TSR's drow elves perfectly.

    At the same time, TSR was milking the market for all it was worth. They published "2.5th Ed." of AD&D, which was 2nd Ed. in a slightly different presentation (more pictures), and they published dozens and dozens of unnecessary, low-quality, repetitive and inconsistent rulebooks. In short, they made a mess of 2nd edition AD&D, and earned themselves a dismal reputation as "T$R". The backlash killed them, and TSR was bought out by Wizards of the Coast.

    Third edition was a symbolic fresh start; it discarded the mess of rulebooks created in 2nd edition, simplified things, and used the D20 license to show that, unlike TSR, WotC was committed to openness. Does a 3.5th edition and stopping one copyright infringement mean that WotC is reverting into TSR? Of course not; but it's a step in that direction, and could become the start of something more.

    1. Re:The Rise and Fall of TSR by CapeBretonBarbarian · · Score: 2, Informative

      D&D used to be published by a company called TSR (originally Tactical Simulation Rules, then the acronym was dropped). While the company was under the control of Gary Gygax, all was good; but when Gygax left, he was replaced by typical business types. They decided that by publishing new books, they could make more money from their existing players; so, they published an "advanced" version, AD&D, which would live alongside D&D. Some time after that, they published a 2nd edition AD&D and discontinued both D&D and AD&D. The new editions were improvements, but people weren't happy with re-purchasing and re-learning the same things repeatedly.

      This isn't correct at all. Gary Gygax oversaw the creation of AD&D. Prior to AD&D, D&D was a more free wielding system with lots of folks creating and adding stuff and no one really worrying all that much about Intellectual Property. If you were gaming at the time (I take it you were not) you would have remembered that Gygax increasingly started to assert IP rights insisting that the only official AD&D products were written by him and that the reader shouldn't be fooled by knock-offs.

      While things certainly did take a turn for the worse in a number of ways after Gygax left, the seeds you speak of were sown by Gygax and company.

      I don't know why so many folks who were not gaming through the late 70s and 80s like to speak like experts on something they are quite clueless about.

      At the same time, TSR was milking the market for all it was worth. They published "2.5th Ed." of AD&D, which was 2nd Ed. in a slightly different presentation (more pictures), and they published dozens and dozens of unnecessary, low-quality, repetitive and inconsistent rulebooks. In short, they made a mess of 2nd edition AD&D, and earned themselves a dismal reputation as "T$R". The backlash killed them, and TSR was bought out by Wizards of the Coast.

      This statement is just an opinion and not really fact. Yes, TSR did repackage the rulebooks for 2nd edition without changing the content, but the improvements to the graphics were eye catching and I know our gaming group bought several copies of the new set - partly so we could all read from the same page if need be, but also because the books were more pleasing to read. But, no one had to buy the new printings; the old books still worked just fine. Complaining about that is like complaining about a new printing of a book with some new artwork on the cover and cosmetic changes to layout. Who cares? No one is forced to buy it.

      Now TSR did publish something that was a real version 2.5. That would be the Combat & Tactics, Skills & Powers and Spells & Magic books. Those were not a cosmetic change at all and radically changed how the game was played. In many ways third edition reminds me of these rules. Third edition sometimes feels like a simpler and better put together version of what they were starting to tinker with in S&P and C&T.

      There's no way you could say that these rules were published just to milk the gaming world. TSR was genuinely starting to move away from 1st and 2nd edition AD&D (which were practically interchangeable for the most part). It was fun to be part of that experiment.

      What I think killed TSR (and Game Designers Workshop and others) was Magic the Gathering and similar games. The old RPG companies weren't quick enough to adjust to the changing demographics of gaming and were blind sided.

      The latter years of TSR were a sort of rennaisance on the creative side with a number of innovative (for TSR) campaign settings and supplements. We haven't seen anything approaching that yet for 3E.

      I'll certainly give you that the d20 and OGL concept are great, and that the 3E mechanism is better than the older AD&D mechanism, but I'm still waiting for the cool settings like Planescape or Dark Sun. Seems that under WoTC the settings have reverted back to quasi-European munchkinism.

  19. Check the whole facts. by InThane · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to Wizards of the Coast, all of the modifications made from 3.0 to 3.5 will be released, free of charge, as part of the Standard Reference Document. You can use those as a template for "upgrading" your campaign, if you want.

    Me? I'm sticking with my 3.0 books, and I'll borrow from what I like in 3.5, but I'm not shelling out the money. Quit whining! Sheesh, it's like you think you deserve free copies of the new books, or something...

    --
    InThane
  20. Ya, I don't get the point either by 0x0d0a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we didn't need any fancy computer to whip up characters. Just 3d6, a pencil and paper. Most of the iterations since have just been sales-driven product releases.

    With all due respect to the PcGen people, I could never understand the point of a "character generator". You download and install an app so that you can shave a couple of seconds off of character generation? What's the *point*? If anything, you lose part of the gaming experience.

    I mean, how often do you need to generate a freaking character?

    --
    May we never see th
  21. My My My... Busy aren't we all? by Mynex · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ook! (that's monkey for greetings) I see that everyone is having fun bashing away happily at WotC, CMP, and things in general. I just thought I'd stop in and make a target, er, post myself here. ;) Couple things a lot of you seem to be missing... mostly missing are additional facts. So, let me point you to were you can read what's what... then feel free to flame/complain/moan/groan/congradulate/pat on back/yell/scream/holler away. ;) 1st, the main announcement about things is located on our main page at http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com That give an overview of things... more specifics are here: http://www.codemonkeypublishing.com/modules.php?op =modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=12 9 okay.. that should give you all the fuel you need to pick your favorite adjective to use! ready, set, flame! ;p *note - I am _VERY_ tongue in cheek and sarcastic, not with intent to annoy anyone (usully. ;p) but for simple humors sake. Ask questions, they're more than welcome, please refrain from personal flames though, that's not needed and unwelcome.

  22. Some Info to Remove Speculation by Kenosti · · Score: 2, Informative

    I see Mynex has already posted on this issue, but I'm goign to psot some extra info that people seemt o be unaware of in regards to various topics brought up.

    * When 3.5 comes out, Wizards will release all the changes as a PDF file (liek they currently do with the Errata and FAQ). It will be a free download form the Wizards website, so you will not have to pay for the changes if you don't want to.

    * PcGen ahs always allowed users to enter their own datafiles - especially easier now with allt he list editors in the latest releases. Thus, you don't have to buy the Wizards IP if you own the books, you can just enter the information yourself. The supporting Documentation inside PCGen is very helpful in this regard.

    * The stuff Code Monkey Publishing will be charging for will only be for the Wizards IP. This means that things left out fot he SRD will be put back in (Mordenkeinen's, Tasha's, Illithid/MindFlayer, etc etc). Not only that, but you'll get full descriptions of skills, spells, feats, etc. Or you could do your own work and flesh out the SRD files that come with PCGen using the list editors.

    * Code Monkey Publishing has axcquired the rights to fix and support Wizard's own Character Generator E-Tools, which, by many reports, is severely broken and has not been fixed sice it was released.

    * Be aware that E-Tools only runs on Windows (as far as I know, unless you use a Windows Emulator on othe rplatforms), whislt PCGen, running in Java, runs on many platforms. So to my mind, this is a bonus, not hindrance to PCGen.

    Well, that's all I have to say.

    Ignore me, flame me, or whatever, but these are the facts, as they stand.

    Kenosti.