Safe and Free from Patriot II

JJ22 writes "The ALCU has a press release about a full page ad they have running in the New York Times. See the ad here. It gives a list of some of the freedoms which were taken away under the Patriot Act, and lists more which Ashcroft is pushing for under Patriot II. Obviously, you should only be concerned about losing your liberties if you're a terrorist (or similar dissident)."

Comments

Majority

[Thalias]

The United States is a Democratic Republic. This means we elect people to speak for us in hopes that they have the same belief as us. However it seems to me that as these people are now in office, they don't listen to us, but rather do what they think is best for us. From democracy to democratic republic. Next we will change to a republic. Then to dictatorship. Keep in mind this is an extreme, but with all these new acts that are being passed, it seems that is what the politicians want.

Re:Majority

[squant0]

The US has always been a republic. Back in the "day" when the original founders decided to make up many of the rights we like today, they were only thinking of themselves. And still today, most of the people who get "elected" don't care about what their people want, they only care about getting what the rich people want (example: tax cuts for the rich? how bout tax cuts for the poor, and tax the shit out of the rich? sounds fair to me, those who can give, give). Politics has always been about money, and still is.

I don't think a dictatorship will happen, too many greedy politicians sitting in office trying to make money.

Re:Umm... I'm confused

[Bookwyrm]

The bigger question is, how do you appeal?

Suppose they remove your US citizenship. How do you get a lawyer to represent you? Can you even be represented in a US court? Do they purge your social security number/tax ID? If so, what happens to your bank accounts and property?

Suppose somehow you convince them that it was a mistake -- how do you get your citizenship *back*? What if took months to accomplish and records were purged by various institutions. Do you get your old social security number back, do you get a new one? How would one recover for that?

This is probably the most scary thing here. If they can arbitrarily declare someone a non-citizen and shutdown that person's access to bank accounts (frozen for investigation), work (no longer a US citizen eligible for work), property (siezed for investigation), transportation (no drivers' license -- not a US citizen), and legal representation (good luck finding some without work, money, a car, or a house), what can one do to protest that after the fact? Even if you managed to successfully get your citizenship back, by then, your government confiscated property might have been sold to someone else (nice potential scam for someone there.)

Re:This law applies to everyone

[bofkentucky]

I call a State Governor giving shady land deals to people who let his wife cheat at the cattle futures market the beginings of some serious wrong-doing. I could care less who Clinton was/is banging on the side, but I do care about him lying about it under oath while being investigated for more serious offenses.

Re:This law applies to everyone

[schmaltz]

Except the allegations about the land deals were never proven. Do you feel the same way about the plum deals GWB was given? Somehow I don't think so.