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NYT on RFID Tags
indros13 writes "The NY Times is running a story on the radio tagging of merchandise. Companies like Gillette want to make sure their razors are in stock and stores like Wal-Mart want to make sure you can find your paisley panties, size 10. But what happens to privacy when everything you buy can be tracked from store floor to door?"
My cross dressing days are over! Everybody will know I'm wearing paisley panties!
I think that it'd be cool if my Hello Kitty stuffed animal could identify things via RFID...
Basketball: Hello Kitty!
Kitty: Hello Basketball!
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
These retailers are more than welcome to track anything and everything until I've paid for it because until that point, it belongs to them.
So, does this mean that the (in)famous walmart $300 PC now sells with built in 802.11???
Nothing happens to your privacy when tracked from floor to door, as long as it ends there.
I dont know where you guys shop, but the 17 year old moron or the "hire the handicapped" person at the checkout at stuff-mart looks at every single thing I buy.
You have _no_ right to "privacy" if you are patronizing someones store. Deal with it.
(This isnt meant to be a flame.. it is meant to point out that they track everything you buy anyway, and almost guaranteed, if you use credit or debit cards, there is a file SOMEWHERE that lists everything you bought, if you dont, like me, get that list on your statement every month.)
Now.. if the RFID tags follow you home.. thats another issue. But the show I saw on it. (Tech Tv? Might have been?) Did not seem to think that was possible.. they are a direct scan sort of thing, rather than a "scan from black helicopter" sort of thing.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Wait till they start radio-tagging the tinfoil hats. Then you won't know what the hell to do, will ya?
...Faraday shopping bag?
I assume these tags are removed when you purchase the item and leave the store so how is this any differnet from when you check out? I assume most of use are not yet such fanatics that you only use cash for purchases right? Because you do realize that if you use credit or debit its not at all hard for a merchant to log your purchases and equate them with your name. I doubt most of them do but still. Why does it matter if they know you're carring it around the store when they are gonna find out you have it at the register anyway? Unless you don't plan to visit the register and mother tought you stealing was wrong right?
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
But what happens to privacy when everything you buy can be tracked from store floor to door?
If you're really worried about them tracking your RF tags, try mailling them to Siberia or something. If they really are watching you, that ought to get their attention.
*bzzt* rf-control to watcher-one. he is currently travelling on a fed-ex jet to moscow with his latest consignment of razor blades. over" *bzzt*
*bzzt* "roger rf-control. will continue tracking and advise, over" *bzzt*
(Spudley Strikes Again!)
There actually could be some benefits to this. With this type of technology you could find many upsides such as:
The possiblities are endless! Embrace the benifits of new technology, it's all for your own good.
Ok, I'm done - sarcasm off. I still think the office thing would be fun though.
Are you bovilexic? Moo!
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I take my purchases to a clerk who rings them up, and to whom I give payment.
- someone spreading gossip than I am some pencil-pusher in a cubicle 1000 miles away.
The store already knows what I've bought. Big deal.
These sound like a much more effective shoplifting deterrent than the current tags that can be defeated with a tinfoil-lined purse (or fanny sack as geeks call them).
It would be nice to see a system of these tags taking the current 'self check-out' aisles even further: the products in the cart announce themselves to a kiosk which automatically tallies up the bill. For practical purposes, that's much more anonymous than the cashier.
I'm more worried about the cashier-whos-a-friend-of-a-cousin-of-a-dentist-of
Anyways, more fluff.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
"the same techniques that enable an electronic sensor to record data from an E-ZPass tag or an office door to open for people with chip-equipped cards in their pockets"
I know many who have EZ-Pass (mine was ordered and never came) and it has so many false positives for non-payment it's insane. Along with your fine you get a nice little picture in the mail of your car going through the toll even though they have that car in their EZ-Pass database!
My apartment building uses the electronic key lock with a motion sensor on the inside. I'd say it's broken about 5% of the time, which is a lot if that's where you are every day.
OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
For any cool experiments? Is the transmitter range long enough to track my pet to within lets say 400 feet? Could they be hacked into some sort of packet network backbone or radio station?
I'm going to brush paranoia aside for now because I wonder what sort of cool things I can do with these little wonders. Millions upon millions of them all availiable whenever I purchase a product.
Could I read these RDIF tags myself? Could I drive past my neighbors and find out what brand lubricant they use by scanning their trashcans? Oh what fun! I can see it now, you heard it from me first, "War RDIF anarchy dildo driving!" As soon as these things are introduced, I'm going to drive around the bay area every garbage night and scan for people who have empty anarchy dildo packages in their trash, and mark it with some chalk (And on a map I will post on the net)
Man, this takes shaming peoples insecurities to a whole new level.
Winona Ryder goes to prison.
I also reply below your current threshold.
Until the moment you buy it the things in a store belong to them. Period. They can do anything they want with it, including tracking.
This is no different than putting a tracking device in your laptop or in your car. Or having a "Lost phone" beeper in your cordless.
As a store owner though I certainly wouldn't want a supplier being able to track my inventory without my permission, or perhaps even knowing about it. It isn't any of *their* business, per se. I can see where the large chains would find this useful though.
But in MY store, I put the tags on, if I bloody well feel like it.
As a customer the tags had better come off as soon as I buy the merchandise. From that moment on it's mine, not theirs. Note that that would be *before* I get to the exit.
KFG
Unless you are stealing from the store, the clerk and the cash register know everything you buy anyway.
If it ends up having *any* impact on privacy, it would be too *improve* privacy. No matter what, the cash register system has the *potential* to track your purchases that you pay for. Currently, when you buy stuff, every individual item must be handled by the cashier to be scanned, so the cashier is intimately familiar with your purchase. If used properly, this thing could scan an entire cart without digging through every item. Items you want to hide can be hidden. They still are paid for, but the cashier only sees the total sum, not each purchase. Combine this with anonymous currency (only paper money right now) and individuals are in no way associated with their purchases, neither by humans nor by computer.
Afraid of those items being tracked after leaving the store? Rip out those tags when you are out of there.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Sure, they can and perhaps, should track any and everything in their store. The problem is that RFIDs are not deactivated. They continue to work forever. Or, at least until the washer has worn out your panties.
The fact that they continue to work for a very long time and the fact that they are, or can be, completely unique means that a store can identify YOU by your panties. National chains such as Walmart could track YOU and your panties all across the country. Suddenly they don't sound very nice, do they.
Now, let's take the paranoia to a slightly higher level. Let's suppose that stores share their RFID and customer databases with trustworthy groups like, NSA CIA, FBI, SpamKing marketing. Suddenly You and your panties are trackable in every store you go to, or security checkpoint you pass through or toll booth you drive through. Now you can't go anywhere without the beadie little eye of some agency watching you at all times.
Did you ever get the feeling that you were being watched?
I wonder if these would even work in an electronics retailer - say like Best Buy. You've got a wall of TV's, cell phones, radio, etc all over the store. Unless you had a large number of distributed receivers, how would you counteract the interference.
Nearly all store shelving is metal. In particular, Wal-Marts have those big 8 foot high shelves in certain sections of the store. Grocery stores are completely filled with metal shelving and refrigeration units.
You scan all the items yourself and you can even pay by cash if you want, the machine has a bill acceptor. The checkout stands even have the sensormatic deal, so you can cancel an items tendancy to set off the "I'm Stealing" beep at the door.
Here's a pic of one, with an article I havent read
it would be like the thick plastic armoring that music stores encase CDs and Tapes in
No, they are strips of "foil" just a few microns thick. They are very easily concealed. So far they are usually held on under a bit of tape but, they can be embedded into the materials that make up the product. Some manufacturers are discussing doing this. In the case of Gillette, the strip could be easily embedded in the plastic shell of the individual razor blade. RFID tags can also be easily laminated into the paper of books etc.
Take a US currency note, greater than one dollar, and hold it up to the light. You will(should) notice a milar strip embedded into the bill that denotes the face value of the bill. An RFID tag could be as simple as this milar strip. In fact, the tag could be even smaller that the milar strip in the bill.
I work for a company that sells to one of the worlds largest retailers. This retailer recently held a meeting with all suppliers in the division and stated that RFIDs will be used on all pallets entering the DC this year and all products sold within a couple years. The benefits such as walking past the checkout and knowing exactly what's in your cart was discussed. Inventory management is the really big benefit though. Concerns such as thieves potentially knowing what's in your cart as you walk to your car were also discussed. Someone also voiced the concern that thieves with proper equipment could know exactly what's sitting in your car. It seems like the retailers know what the risks are. They are seriously trying to reduce those risks but the benefits are far too great for them to ignore. We're just hoping that the price comes down. The tags cost half as much as our product.
has anyone else had the thought that maybe by putting your new shirt, panties, ect in a microwave for a few seconds you would effectively destroy the RFID when you got it home if you were so inclined? I can definitely see a problem with anything metal but since i'm not into BDSM i don't wear metal panties....
Wal-Mart, for example, has a database TWICE the size of all the U.S. Government, combined.
EVERY purchase you have ever made with a credit card is tracked right down to you. All your preferences are known, right down to your favorite deodorant.
Wal-Mart, however you might think of it, is a brilliant company. Did you know that most of the products on the Wal-Mart shelf have NOT been bought by Wal-Mart? No, the manufacturer sends the products to Wal-Mart and waits until the item is actually run through the checkout scanner before it receives a check. The manufacturer is responsible for sending more products for Wal-Mart to stock. In return, they get access to that titanic-sized wealth of marketing data.
This is where the radio tags come in. If you know exactly where any product is in your store, you can see what products sell better in what location -- in real time, across the country. And yes, shoplifting will become far more difficult for the petty theives -- I doubt the pros will be stopped by this technology.
RFID tags aren't about big brother -- they're about big bucks.
-- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
Yes, but now I can eliminate bad date choices with my minature RFID scanner. I can choose only the women wearing the black thongs. Now, does no signal mean nothing at all?
Geez, I can't believe how many posts don't understand the privacy issue. Let me summarize:
1). the tags cannot be deactivated, are not deactivated when you purchase the item.
2.) each tag has a unique ID - buy 3 identical pants, 3 tags have 3 different ID numbers.
3.) pay with a traceable currency, like a credit card, and into the database goes your credit card info AND the IDs of the things you bought.
4.) From now on, anyone with a scanner and access to the database where you bought stuff can know who you are, where you are. Walk into a Walmart on the other side of the world, and your RFID tag can identify you (or at least the purchaser of the goods). Have not only your buying habits, but your shopping habits tracked, stored, and datamined. Buy a shirt at a garage sale and get arrested for being someone else! Have more of your info make it into the Total Information Awareeness uberdatabase.
It's a wonderful world.
- Buy merchandise
- Remove tag, reactivate anf affix to your underwear
- Return to store
- Try to leave store
- Insist that if they want to search your shorts, you'll only let (pick the cutest staffer) do the search, and it must be in public, to protect your rights
- Sue (profit)
or, to do the MasterCard thingee...The EPC spec has all those bits so the instances of objects can be tracked. An EPC is broken down into four sections:
- WH -002.pdfT -AUTOID-WH -008.pdf
bits 00-07 = header
bits 08-35 = manufacturer (EPC Manager)
bits 36-59 = Object Class
bits 60-95 = Serial Number
There's another EPC, the Compact EPC, that's only 64 bits long, because the longer bit length translates into higher-cost tags.
So saying that RFID tags are -not- instance specific is incorrect. They can be (and the EPC is designed to be) instance specific, but it's up to the manufacturer.
http://www.autoidcenter.org/research/MIT-AUTOID
http://www.autoidcenter.org/research/MI
The thing is, there are situations where you will want it to keep working after you leave. Like you return the item, but you don't have your receipt, like it said in the article (yeah, I RTFA! :>) It would be great if the RFID from the item was stored with the purchase price in the database. And that necessitates the thing staying alive.
So stores WILL be able to determine your buying history if you use a CC to pay(Grocery stores do now - with that little card they extorted you into giving them each time). And I bet the RFID manufacturer ends up selling these things in consecutive runs of ID #'s - making it EASY for the feds to determine where the panties were bought and to correlate them with a CC#, then a mailing address, etc.
So what do we do? I think consumers will need to educate themselves a bit - especially with regard to where they buy clothing. We will need a privacy policy law like with the net. Try to pay for clothing with cash. And the greatest hope, I swear to God, will be sensationalist journalism. Even regular people will be creeped out by the idea of being tracked by their underwear. And you know Dateline or one of those crappy shows will do a thing on it if the NYTimes is on it now.
Also, I plan on using a big fscking magnet on my clothes from now on. 5 Tesla should work ;)
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Imagine someone with a portable scanner walking through the mall parking lot knowing exactly which recently purchased items are in each vehicle...
youch!
just microwave your panties before you wear them. Not only will they be nice and toasty but the RFID will be fried.