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Buffy the Vampire Slayer is Officially Over
tstoneman writes "Say it ain't so! Yahoo has an article says how SMG herself confirmed the rumors of the series demise. Even though it is clearly in its twilight, it's still one of the vest best shows on TV. It however points to the fact that a spin-off will emerge, hopefully one that is more successful than Angel."
Perhaps a more '2000' reality based vampire show is in order, where the vampires vote each other off the show :)
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After dealing with some sub-par allegory and poor storytelling in the third to sixth seasons, I'm kinda happy that the series will end with this season, where the writing has appeared to improve despite Joss Whedon's attention to Firefly.
"My God...It's full of ads!" -Fry, about the Internet, Futurama
...is that they're making a sequel to the Scooby-Doo movie.
After the picture on the site it's linking to, I might be thinking "vest" too... and other words that end in the sound made by "est"...
She's killing Buffy so she can make more Scooby Doo movies? This season doesn't feel like it's the end of the story. It's too soon to call it quits. Besides, look at the movies that SMG has made. They're all crap. She clearly should not be allowed on film, unless (maybe) it's a Buffy movie. Note that she said "in this incarnation" (though she could have been referring to the comics. Oh, well. I blame Prinze for this. And cancer.
Of course, i could be wrong... any geeks here watch it?
Yes, I couldn't agree more. No show has done more for vest wearing in the past 50 years than Buffy the Vestpire..er, Vampire Slayer.
Dushku is already committed to a pilot on a Fox show, making that unlikely.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
I hope Gellar's salary for seven years of Buffy was pretty good, because, truth be told, I can't see her movie career lasting her very long. I mean, crossing over to a movie career from TV is hard enough as it is. Doing it when, frankly, one of your main assets is that you're young and sexy just doesn't seem like a long-term career move. It's not as though she isn't already typecast. And I just can't see her movie career hitting it in the handful of years she has left as a really bankable star. Quite frankly, I think she'd have made more money with two or three more seasons of Buffy. Then again, one doesn't have to read too many interviews with her to get the idea that she's not the brightest crayon in the box.
Philip Sandifer's academic website
The only reason the show is going to be 'respun' after Sarah leaves is because she's the title character and a Buffyless Buffy has to be called something else.
Sarah's leaving, it doesn't mean the franchise is closing down, though it's hardly surprising that she'd want to spin it that way.
Me, I'm secretly hoping for a crossover spinoff from Buffy and Enterprise, where a new slayer named Gargravarr rises up in The Fray's post-slayer universe, and travels by starship from world to world to (and this part's key) alphabetically insult, and then slay, every demon in the known universe.
Things get interesting in the series's two-hour pilot (which happens to also be it's season finale) when she crosses paths with, and consequently teams up with, Malcolm Reynolds and crew. The finale (aired in week two) centers around a final confrontation with the Big Bad: the mysterious yet ugly Reavers.
If only TiVo made new shows based on the ones I like...
Kevin Fox
"It however points to the fact that a spin-off will emerge, hopefully one that is more successful than Angel."
More "successful" does not mean "better".
Hell, Survivor was a "sucessful" show, but it was basically mindless voyeurism.
http://jesus.everdense.com/
I'd watch a show based on Willow. She's far and away my favorite character (since way before she was a beautiful lesbian uber witch) In fact, if the show really is over she's the only reason I'll watch a new spin off.
If it doesn't have willow, it isn't worth watching. (And god damn it, they need Giles.)
"Buffy was... She was a fantastic celebrity..." You've a bit of a problem with that whole fantasy/reality thing, don't you?
Any time a bad girl got me down and ignored me and played with my heart and wallet, Buffy was an adequate mode to relax by romantically. She was a fantastic celebrity and she will be missed by me and many who are like me.
In the interest of efficiency, I feel you should have refrained from beating around the bush and limited this comment to "I jerk off to Buffy everynight".
Good day to you sir.
It would be interesting to do a study on how long shows last. I can guarantee that some shows aren't terminated based on falling ratings, but rather the actors stopping (Seinfeld, ST:TNG, Buffy?) While some shows seem to keep on going, like the day time dramas. Is the length of time a good show is on inversely proportional to the ratings? Does the same hold for game shows like Price is Right, or Family Feud?
Modular Redundancy--Because 4 out of 5 Nodes agree
Angel is a great show that really came into its own once BTVS moved to UPN. Its probably not doing well because the WB doesn't advertise it(alla firefly) and no one knows when its on, or it gets bumped for crap like tonight(the lone ranger). But IMO Charisma Carpenter is way hotter than SMG. I've caught the last few episodes only because someone on /. said it wasn't canned after i made some comment about great shows like firefly, farscape and angel gettign canned. I really thought it was gone. As for Buffy, its jumped the shark, this whole training school for potential slayers just bugs me, but the past few seasons, Glorie, ADAM, have been great, I'm sad to see it go.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Remember when Sliders was left with only Remy as the original member of the cast on the show?
:-)
No, because I stopped watching not long after Rhys-Davies was replaced by Kari Wuhrer*, and they started blatantly ripping off sci-fi movies for their alternate earths and/or plots.
A show with a rabid fanbase is better off going out on a high note. Besides, why overextend the show's lifespan when you can milk it much more effectively selling episode DVDs to aforementioned rabid fanbase?
~Philly
*Sure, Wuhrer was a piece of ass (though it was Sabrina Lloyd who really melted me), but she couldn't act for shit-- and when you've got bad material to work with, that only magnifies the overall crappiness.
Then FX started showing all the episodes in order - two a day. Let's just say "thank God for Tivo."
About three months later I'd seen almost every episode from the first five seasons. And I loved it. The writing was often excellent, and the casting was perfect. The first three seasons did a great job capturing the real essence of high school, instead of the Utopia often portrayed in network shows about those awkward years.
It's certainly not perfect, but even the worst episodes were often way above average, which is more than we can expect from the boob tube these days. And when BtVS was at its best, it held it's own with anything on TV - Buffy was nominated for an Emmy for Best Writing in a Drama, and the other nominees were two episodes each of "West Wing" and "The Sopranos". Not too shabby.
Anyway - before you make fun of it too much, it's worth checking. I'm pretty sure FX is still rerunning the series in order. It's definately worth waiting to start with the first season, as the show has a great mythos that later episodes rely on.
The worst thing about recent vampire movies/TV shows, and books (basically since Anne Rice) is that they have this tendancy to turn what used to be undead badass demons into angsty wimps. If I see another angsty vampire, I swear, I'm going to scream.
If not all sentients are human, couldn't it be possible that not all humans are sentient either?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Thats for besmirching the memory of Firefly by tainting it with shite from enterprise, you should be ashamed. May the Serenity and especially her crew;), RIP.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
I'm a geek and I love this show. I think it's rather sad that everyone feels the need to compare it to typical "geek" fare such as ST or Babylon. It's not in the same vein but that doesn't mean that it doesnt have total geek appeal and asthetic.
Buffy has consistently been the most topical and best written show on TV for the last 4+ years. Admittedly the show is aimed at a younger and less "hard geek" audience, but in doing so I believe it validates itself. It's brought smart and intelligent writing (of the geek type) to "teenland". And at the same time it provides a rich and well defined fantasy "universe" that hardcore geeks can enjoy.
The fact that you can have Star Trek, Apocolypse Now!, Comics, Twin Peaks and Shakespeare referenced regularily on a popular show with a core audience of 16 year olds is a grand enough achievement. All that without mentioning the 3-5 season spanning story arcs and incredibly fun writing.
I could care less about Sarah Michelle Gellar (which seems to be bearing the brunt of the cheers about this show being cancelled) -- people really need to look beyond the fact that she's married to some other Hollywood dope, that the show has a ridiculous (but charming) name -- and really just evaluate the show for what it is. And I think most open-minded individuals who have actually seen the show would say that it is a charming, well written show with great acting and a very engaging mythos.
I consider myself a moderate geek, and I watch Buffy (and it's sibling show Angel). And you know what? As I write this, I can't for the life of me say exactly what hooked me and keeps me coming back for more.
Of course part of it is the fact that the show raised the "stunt" episode to a new art form. "Hush" used silence, rather than dialogue, to tell a story, and used that silence to set a singularly creepy feeling to the episode. "The Body" was one of the best portrayals of the human reaction to a sudden loss of someone close. "Once More With Feeling" told a story in the form of a musical, without being even remotely corny or over the top - the musical numbers just flowed into the dialogue naturally.
Another part of what attracted me to the show is what attracted many people here to Farscape - the writing. On the whole (excepting the odd clunker episodes that every series has) Buffy has some of the best writing on TV - enough to make you forget the patently - and by design - absurd concept for the show.
But in the end, Buffy is one of those shows that unless you watch, you just don't and won't get what the fascination is with the show.
Strangely enough, it seems to me that Buffy is just one of those shows that ratings just cannot begin to indicate how popular the show really is. Compared to shows on the larger networks, Buffy's ratings are not great (to put it mildly) - yet the announcement that it was coming to an end made headlines on virtually every major news source, and will be the cover story on next week's Entertainment Weekly. Obviously, it must be a big enough story and have enough people that care for it to get this much attention.
Ah, well... all good things must come to an end, I suppose. Hopefully we continue to get more stories and shows from the Buffyverse (while continuing to realize the mistake of Star Trek, that too much of a good thing can be a bad thing).
Funny that, I didn't start watching Buffy either till it was well into in its fifth season, and I did it just to see what the hoopla was about. The first episode I saw was the last show of season two (as I later on found out).
I was surprised that there was a lot of character depth and emotional intensity to it which I really didn't expect, especially given the frivolous title name. I'm not the addict of the show that some are, but I do think that there's a lot of stuff there that resonates with people. Clearly a lot of people relate to the emotions and human interaction, even if the storylines and action are completely unbelieveable.
In the 7 years that the show ran, I don't think I ever saw an entire episode.
Some geeks flock to SMG and vampires I guess, others flock to Farscape
Others flock to decent TV.
Kidding, just kidding...
Co-founder of GerbilMechs
Still others sell their TV on eBay starting at $1 with no reserve, and buy a life with the proceeds.
Some geeks flock to SMG and vampires I guess, others flock to Farscape
And the more discerning of us ignore both of those lousy shows and watch mostly Law and Order reruns and the Discovery science channel...
Now that's some mighty fine viewing.
A brilliant, three-dimensional villain who wanted to become a giant snake and eat people... but who had hangups on germs and profanity. A slayer who was destined to rid the world of vampires and got a taste for killing people instead. And what about Buffy and Angel's relationship? It had survived monsters, demons and an apocalypse or two, but in the end it couldn't survive the sobering truth that ultimately, they just weren't compatible.
It's these grey areas that make the show so brilliant. The bad guys aren't bad for no reason, the good guys have their weak moments, and the romance is relentlessly true-to-life. No other season represented that better than the third, IMO. It's out on DVD now, btw.
Plus, females get fingerbanged by Hollywood. The only thing they're good for, it appears, is to be rescued. I don't know about you, but female empowerment is sexy
"But the cars are all flashing me, bright lights are passing me, I feel life passing me by" - Stiff Little Fingers
Eventually all the things that can be done within the confines of a series, get done, and the series gets stale, particularly on character-driven shows like Buffy. (Law and Order, for example, is easier to sustain because it doesn't depend so much on character, more issues which they often pretty much rip out of the newspaper). With Buffy, they have done well to sustain things by letting the characters grow up, introducing and killing off other characters, and so on, but, still, it would be much easier to write for a new series where there's still room to flesh out the characters and play with new relationships, and produce better results.
So don't just think of what you're gaining from the umpteenth series of your favourite show, think of what you're losing by having your favourite writers struggle to take the characters places we haven't already seen before.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
For example, one thing that you can't get from a brief glimpse of the show is JW's willingness to kill off a character just as you are getting attached to them. He loves to set up expectations based on your previous TV-watching experience, and then go in a completely different direction.
There's also the problem of anybody trying to tune in to current broadcasts (or recent reruns) and missing a lot of the context of what's being said and done. For example, I have one friend who's first experience watching BTVS was the season 5 episode, "The Body" (the one where Buffy comes home to discover her mother's corpse, finally taken by post-sugery complications) which is hailed as one of the best hours of television ever by those who follow the show, but utterly baffling to this friend of mine who saw it out of context after she had only seen the movie. She had a hard time seeing why I liked the show so much. Now that she's seen the first couple seasons of the show, she's yet another person who loves the show more than you are able to understand.
Believe me when I say that there's a reason why Buffy is a favorite of nearly every published TV critic, and practically worshipped in geek circles. If you know somebody who owns the DVD's, I would strongly reccomend borrowing them and giving the show more of a fair chance.
I would reccomend watching the two-part pilot, episode 3 ("The Witch"), and episode 11 ("Out of Mind, Out of Sight"). Then have a friend catch you up on the rest of season one and jump right into the season 2 DVD's, watching them in order. I think you will be surprised to discover how smart, funny, dramatic and groundbreaking this show really was.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Oxymoron if I've ever hear one...
Decent TV???
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
I am a latecomer to the Buffy fanbase, but that makes me no less ardent. For years I held disdain for the show, specifically because of SMG. Its the same reason I hated Led Zepplin for so long, because I hated Robert Plant. But I learned to appreciate Led Zep and tune out that godforsaken racket they passed for vocals, and as such I learned to appreciate Buffy. What surprised me however, is that for the first time I didn't hate SMG. In fact, I was quite impressed by her.
... I wish Joss Whedon good in all he does, because I know I can trust that I'll enjoy it. Beyond the great acting and the intensely detailed characters brought to life by the entire cast, Buffy is really more of a vibe. I feel it. Do you feel it? Come on, you know you feel it.
I could go on about the writing, the depth of character and plotline, the deft self-awareness and irony, the throwaway quips that were gems of pop culture gone wrong, but I'd just be rehashing what everyone else has already said. Whoops, I did too.
But seriously, check out the Buffy listings on TV Guide or TitanTV or something. Buffy is on in full effect, y0, and y00z bitchez b3tta b3 sh0\/\/in' r3sP3ct!
and the DVDs will keep on coming
I've become too long winded. But rest assured that Buffy isn't going away any time soon. Even Knight Rider is back on the air. Even if Buffy goes away, she'll ALWAYS be back! That's the great part about retro. And the retro cycle is getting shorter and shorter. Pretty soon, all of society will have witnessed the drama, comedy, learning, and healing that Buffy brings. And, like Bill and Ted before them, become icons for the future, building generations on sound morals, excellent taste, and a penchant for witty banter to be reckoned with.
You just wait.
From what I've read, a show really needs 5 years to go into syndication, with improvements up to 7 years. As a rule, the studios don't make much money on the first-run of the show, the profits are in syndicating it afterwards. So while Fox wasn't making money off WB/UPN (probably were with UPN, who overpaid to get a hot franchise), it is making money licensing it to its FX subsidiary and the weekend syndication rights.
Once 7 years are complete, the studio has no incentive to "subsidize" the production of the show, which is why most successful shows die at that point. The actors get over compensated for 7 years, which they wouldn't past that. As a result, the actors leave, because it stops being worth it.
No specialized knowledge, just parroting what I've read... feel free to correct if you're "in the industry" and can correct where I'm wrong.
Alex
That's a bit harsh.
I would argue that it's one of the more intelligent shows on television. Buffy has always gotten a bad reputation for its name. It even turned me off from watching it.
But when I sat down and watched a few, it was surprising how dramatic the show was. The key to the show is that there's a real human element to it. The characters are played as real people despite the fantasy situation, which is incredibly rare and refreshing. How many times in mass media have you seen fantasy and sci-fi characters played out as flat caracatures? Sci-fi is often too obsessed with the technological and short changes interesting characterizations. No, this show is great because it is about people. It uses the fantasy element to put them in extraordinary situations.
Take Buffy's death. She died at the end of season five, and her friends were horrified. At the beginning of the next season, her friends had found a spell to bring her back, to save her from whatever unspeakable hell dimension she was in. (If you are finding this ridiculous, use a little imagination. I mean, Star Trek was just as hokey; how many deflector dish realignments before it got silly?) So they bring her back to life. Now most shows would have left it at that, destroying the entire dramatic element of the death. But the twist was this: Buffy had gone to Heaven, and her friends had ripped her out and brought her back. After feeling the nirvana of Heaven, it's safe to imagine it would be hard to find any joy in living once back on Earth. She had to deal with this difficult experience all season long. This, as will all of the plot elements have realistic and far-reaching consequences.
Seriously. They mix comedy, action, but especially drama. It's definitely not the cheesy show the title would have you believe.
Seems to me it's this same mentality of dismissing the show based on it's premise that keeps Buffy from Getting an emmy.
Try watching a couple episodes.
"But the cars are all flashing me, bright lights are passing me, I feel life passing me by" - Stiff Little Fingers
Shrub the English Language Slayer
Willow in Lesbian Makeout Scene of the Week
Ethyl the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying
It should be an interesting season...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I love Buffy the show, although I've never been crazy about SMG. My wife introduced me to the show when we were dating. We watch it every week since, and we've been married almost 5 years now. I'll miss it very, very much. Maybe it's sad that a tv show can be such a big part of your life, but it's a tradition, and it's something that my wife and I loved watching together, gave us things to laugh about together, and talk about together. It's been more than a show to me, it's been special time with the woman I love and I'll always think of those early days dating my wife, watching the 1st season episodes she taped while sitting in her tiny apartment, whenever I think of Buffy.
That said....No one wants to see a show that runs out of fuel. I also used to watch X-Files with my wife, but I hate that show, that never gave me any good answers despite dozens of promises, that gave forth a bunch of weak plots that didn't go anywhere, why oh why could they not have said, let's go out with a bang instead of slowly bleeding to death in the gutter.
Buffy could probably pull off another season, but they've already had to import some big new characters, mainly a sister. This just barely skirts around the Jump the Shark law that states that adding a kid kills a show or at least indicates the show is dying. She was kind of a teenager, so they could get away with it, but still...
So I say, Joss has killed major loved characters before (jonathon, tara, gyspy teacher). I say, Joss, kill the entire cast and keep them dead, just to show you have the balls to do it.
Firefly, the 2nd best show on TV is already cancelled from what I understand, why oh why can't we get good Sci-Fi on TV at a decent time and keep it on.
Why do so many folks watch it? The boobs?
You're new here, aren't you?
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
Exactly. I missed out on the first few seasons because I chalked it up as a spin-off of the terrible movie.
After living with my girlfriend (now wife) I was forced to watch several episodes as she's a die-hard fan. I must admit I got hooked. Yes it's cheesy, and not always internally consistent, but compared with what else is on, it's great.
Now whether it just shines next to such gems as Joe Millionaire and Married by America (gee thank you FOX), I'm not sure, but its one of just a couple shows on my regular weekly watch list.
Doug
Venn ist das nurnstuck git und Slotermeyer? Ya! Beigerhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
The SNR of television is so incredibly low, that I can understand why you think that. But there are actually a few gems that play out well on television.
The strength of TV is that the medium allows you to have a visual novel. Movies suffer from incredibly flat characterizations, because there just isn't time for your to learn who people really are in two hours. The except to this are character movies, movies which pushes everything aside and make you learn who the people are.
You can develop complicated storylines and have complicated people. The problem is, many shows don't.
Why? Because it is much easier for someone flipping channels to stop and watch episodic shows that fall into a nice formula and don't depend on continuity. As in, it's not too confusing for the casual viewer. It's hard to plan your life around the television schedule.
So on the other side, continuity heavy shows are completely incomprehensible to all except the core fans because they rely on the knowledge of years of development of both plot and character for the meaningful payoffs.
Friends is (was) a good example of a show that managed to play both sides of the game. They kept continuity between episodes and continually changed the status-quo. They would trade apartments, date other people, even get married. Yet the stories were told in such a way that, if you watch carefully, you'll notice that they recap the key events in the first few minutes of conversation without feeling like "Last time on Friends..."
Buffy, Angel, 24, Alias, these are continuity heavy shows that can lock out the casual viewer. They do require a heavy commitment to fully appreciate. In just last week's Buffy episode, they made a passing reference to a season one episode when a girl started to disappear when nobody payed any attention to her.
And then there's the noise, everywhere, all the time. Shows that make you watch someone eat worms, or are ads for trading cards, or just plain insult your intellegence.
But there is better stuff out there, if you care to give things a chance.
We've known since September that SMG's contract was up for renewal after this season and she hadn't made up her mind. And they've been throwing around crazy references to seasons past, in almost every episode. This announcement could not have been foreshadowed more starkly, and if you're surprised by it, then frankly, you reflect the level of intelligence the show's last two seasons have descended to.
Okay, maybe that's sort of harsh. And I admit I liked the musical. There, I said it.
If you don't pretend to be anyone, are you?
OMG, you must see Old School. She's in hot pink underwear, on a bed laying on her stomache. Best ass shot without any flesh in a long time.
Plus last weeks episode with her in the wifebeater. Oh yeah.
I really hate Dan Patrick.
I did see a couple of episodes, fortunately for me I was too well educated to enjoy it.
Do you look like the Big Lebowski? I can just picture him saying your comment.
Unless, of course, you're too educated for the Cohen Brothers too.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Pilots on fox (and any other network) rarely work out. Hence, Firefly's cancellation.
Why does the premise of a girl who doesn't need to be saved turn you off?
I've dated some tough women in my time. They are FAR more interesting than the ones who "need" a hero.
I saw an interview with Joss Whedon wherein he explained the genesis of BtVS. A scene in the series pilot embodied Whedon's vision: a pretty girl walks into an alley alone, followed by a Creature of the Night. In a traditional horror film, the girl would become Monster Chow. But Whedon and crew make their living by turning convention on its head.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a tribute to, and satire of, the Horror genre. It is written by really smart people who assume that their audience is intelligent and literate.
Hmm... here's some interesting anecdotal evidence. (Counting on fingers...) 75% of the people that I know who are "die hard" Buffy fans are Macintosh users. Mangle that statistic as you please.
...it's just resting - I think it'll go for a walk!
To sort of refute the henny-penny doom-mongers and nay-sayers, while SMG's tenure on the show is definitely over, the series is by no means on its last legs. A quick look to one of the many spoiler sites (Spoiler Slayer, Wendy's Spoiler Zone, to name a couple), shows that there are already plans for a spin-off. And while it won't be quite the same without SMG or Eliz Dushku (who has signed on for a Fox pilot for next season), there's still some unexplored territory there.
I realize there are some for "Buffy" is not their cup of tea, but for those who call the show 'bad', I would wager that they haven't seen any of the scores of decent episodes in the series.
The show often falls into the realm of being overly formulaic. Monster appears, Old Giles dives into the books, support team of Lesbians etc sometimes help, sometimes get stuck in situations but generally lead a charmed life waltzing around. Buffy wins whilst making often unfunny 'perky comments'. Ever played the xbox? her wisecrax (and I mean crax) are the worst part of the game.
;) .. its a bit hard to watch quality programming like sopranoes and then watch that and find anything 'subtle' about it. Everybody is so pathetic in it. If you really like it thats cool, just I doubt its revered for any other reason than the obvious reason.
Don't try to fool us.. if it has any "cult" status with the geeks its for the lesbians and/or POONTANG
Well, the thing is the the vampire killing is really just a side show. The real stuff is played out between the characters. Mostly, it's a good show because genuinely BAD STUFF happens, to the main characters usually, which many other TV shows avoid like the plague. The series got really dark in season 3, and whatever season is on Fox now is almost post-apocalyptic in atmosphere, and I wouldn't say there's much waltzing around going on. I don't see any wise cracks (or even crax), wonder what season you're refering to here. Most shows get better as the actors settle into their characters and develop some chemistry.
Anyhow, you don't like the show, you don't like it, I'm just pointing out what makes it good for those who do.
But the X-Box jokes where not written by the ME writers, and the story lines of the TV series are nothing like what you describe. If you somehow mistook BTVS for a "moster of the week" show with lesbian titilation on the side, you probably didn't understand it.
In fact, Willow's first kiss with Tara was probably the first ever non-exploitative lesbian kiss in TV history. The characters never kissed on camera for an entire season of being in a relationship, and the first on-screen kiss was during a moment when Willow was bawling her eyes out over the death of Buffy's mom, and Tara was comforting her. It was deliberatly done during a very un-sexy moment, to avoid the usual hype that surrounds TV girl-on-girl action, and respectfully depict a deeper relationship between to characters. There have been lots of lesbian couples on TV over the last 10 years or so, but Willow and Tara was the first one that could be taken seriously. Fuck you for trying to reduce it to mere "poontang."
BTW: I consider "The Sopranos" to be the second-best program on TV today, but for different reasons. Tony Soprano's story resonates with people because we all feel the stress of competing needs of work and family. The stories on BTVS resonate with a lot of us, because we all went through the hell of High School, but Buffy takes the further step of turning shopworn genre conventions on their heads.
As for your idea that the show is "formulaic," I'm guessing you never saw the episode "Passion," a very early (season 2) example of a "statement" episode, in which they clearly established that none of the cliche's of genre TV could be counted on to be followed.
That, or you're just a trolling jackass.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Instead of a spinoff, I want Whedon to fight for a new home for Firefly. That was the best first season of any show, ever. But I guess the average viewer is too dumb to recognize a masterpiece.
Wow, seven *is* the magic number. Star Trek: TNG had seven seasons. DS9 had seven seasons. Even Voyager had seven seasons. Now Buffy. That's kind of frightening.
There are always exceptions, of course. Star Trek: TOS is in syndication still, despite only having three seasons. Of course, those were 29/26/24 episodes, unlike the twenty-ep seasons we're stuck with now. It's almost like four seasons of modern TV... not even counting the fact that each ep was fifty-two or fifty-five minutes long instead of forty-two.
I suppose it makes sense, though it puts a mean limitation on the medium. Then again, what shows haven't sucked after seven years? I haven't gotten to the last two seasons of X-Files, but I heard it got pretty dismal in the last two years...
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I was merciless to my sister back during the first two seasons. Oh, I was a mean, mean brother, refusing to watch any episodes and complaining that it was crap when I saw thirty seconds of a single ep.
Then came #buffy-unlimited on EFNet and the year or so it took me to watch all of it. Wow. My sister still reminds me that I was always a naysayer, but my doubts have seriously been put to rest at this point.
"Acting isn't about behaving, it's about hiding. The audience wants to find you, strip you naked and eat you alive---so hide."
Let's hope the series finale gives us everything we wish for from these characters. Although, seriously, it'll be damned hard to beat 4x22, "Restless". We'll see.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
75% of the people that I know who are "die hard" Buffy fans are Macintosh users. Mangle that statistic as you please.
75% of Macintosh users dress up as buffy on the weekends.
mmm....mangled.
" Or when Adrian Paul didn't really want to do a 6th season of Highlander "
Jesus Christ- there were 5 series of Highlander?
This is the stuff that pisses me off- they cancel Firefly, Odyssey 5 and Birds of Prey after a single season and there were 5 series of Highlander? What the hell is the world coming to?
Especially Odyssey 5 was a fantastic series. It gets cancelled after one series and yet other stuff carries on regardless. Charmed, anyone? Like, hell no.
graspee
I've seen every episode of the show to date, I'm male and hetero, and SMG does nothing whatsoever for me as a sex symbol (and not much as an actor really, though she has astonishing screen chemistry with the excellent James Marsters - much more than she ever did with David Boreanaz). In fact I can honestly say that this is one show I've never watched for the attraction of any cast members (maybeAlyson Hannigan, but not really). It's other shows that I watch for the reasons you describe - I probably wouldn't watch The Dead Zone if not for Nicole de Boer, for instance.
;)
So why do I watch it? It's the writing. The acting is actually very solid and the directing tight and often innovative, but the writing just blows away anything else on TV. Even the relatively lame (except the musical) sixth season was better than anything else on TV.
For reference, other shows I like: Stargate (also solidly written), Lexx (just utterly unique and irreverent), Alias (over-the-top but fun), and older shows like NewsRadio (quirky), Powerpuff Girls, South Park and the Simpsons (which ended a few years back as far as I'm concerned). But the only ones I'll make a point of seeing are Buffy and Angel. And I could miss Angel sometimes.
I love that this got modded informative :)
curvy sorry for the guest
curvy (arguably)
curvy
NOT curvy (IMO, yours may vary - more power if they do).
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
The show often falls into the realm of being overly formulaic. Monster appears, Old Giles dives into the books, support team of Lesbians etc sometimes help, sometimes get stuck in situations but generally lead a charmed life waltzing around. Buffy wins whilst making often unfunny 'perky comments'. Ever played the xbox? her wisecrax (and I mean crax) are the worst part of the game.
;)
I liked it for reasons i stated in another post. Most episodes affect the characters in later episodes, it can be dark but funny, etc. You can see the characters changing as time goes on, unlike your average show.
You can acuse most shows of being formulic, just like you you can with games. All RPGs are you fight some baddy, find out there's a bigger baddy, and you need to gain experience and find special items so that you can win. So that arguement holds little weight with me. I'd rather look at the story generated by the 'forumla' and decide if like that or not.
Don't try to fool us.. if it has any "cult" status with the geeks its for the lesbians and/or POONTANG
I'm sure thats part of it, but if thats all it was i doubt anyone would like it.
its a bit hard to watch quality programming like sopranoes and then watch that and find anything 'subtle' about it. Everybody is so pathetic in it. If you really like it thats cool, just I doubt its revered for any other reason than the obvious reason.
Sopranoes? Please. I watched an episode, and found it highly boring. That show became popular overnight, and i think i know why. It was the current fad. A few people started raving about it, so other people watched, already convinced it was a great show. All good shows start off really bad. The simpsons, Star Trek TNG, Buffy. They were all corny or just not very good. Even as bad as some of the current Simpsons episodes have been, they are not as bad as its first season. But sopranoes started off great? Somehow i doubt that. Not saying its not possible, just saying its likely that it was a fad thing, like SUVs.
You guys are gonna bleed this pun out.
Another bad joke like that would be a real pain in the neck.
--- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
Look out, Sarah Michelle Gellar has been referenced on Slashdot by her initials. This puts her in the same category as RMS and ESR doesn't it? I'm sure this is a great thing for linux, er, um, somehow.
Okay, look, it's early, haven't had my caffeine yet.
--Stupid Sig Here--
His message is:
Here is the link.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Or at the very least "-1 TMI"
So I say, Joss has killed major loved characters before (jonathon, tara, gyspy teacher). I say, Joss, kill the entire cast and keep them dead, just to show you have the balls to do it.
Been done. Space: Above and Beyond and The Others both did this when they were canceled. Of course, they didn't last a season; and they were obviously "I hate the networks" reactionary kills.
If JW decides to kill everyone off, at least I know he'll do it well!
I don't see things in black and white; I see the gray. Heck, I actually see in color, which makes things more difficult
How could someone NOT?
__
Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
If you haven't seen it, Whedon wrote a comics series for Dark Horse called "The Fray", which was basically a Slayer in the future. Perhaps that could be on tap for a sequel series?
The spin-off that everybody's chomping at the bit about is most likely Ripper (Alternative title:The Watcher), which is going to be primarily about Giles.
Filming for Ripper starts this May, and if all goes well it will air on UPN September 2004. (Source: tvtome.com)
"Max, come over here. French-Canadian bean soup. I want to pay. Let them leave me alone." - Dutch Schultz
It's sad in a way, but all things must come to an end. SMG has been working 80 hour weeks on it for 7 years now, since she was 19. No matter what you do or how much you get paid for it, that's gotta wear you out. Sure, the show made SMG the star she is, but she also made the show the star it is. In the hands of a less talented and hard working actress, who knows what it would have been. I doubt we'd be discussing it here.
Neil Youngs Law states that "it is better to burn out than to fade away", and I would so much more want to see a grandiose mindboggling finale to top all finales - and I can't see Joss Whedon going for anything less - than the heart breaking Alzheimerish multi year decline of X-Files and Xena.
Buffy showed that you can make stunningly novel and smart TV, and have it be successful. All you need is a freakishly talented genius. Joss just went ahead and invented a new genre - the horror-comedy-action-drama-soap opera. Anyone would have told you that that is impossible to pull of. Until he proved it.
I watch TV differently now. I still appreciate a good comedy - but why was there no acrobatic kung fu action? A good heart wrenching drama? Fine, but it could have used some side splitting laughter to spice it up. At it's best, Buffy delivers an hour that is at the same time high quality drama, comedy, action, horror and soap opera.
Life will go on. And the half full is that all the talented people will still be around to do other work. Alyson Hannigan is very good at saying "pussy" on American Pie. Nothing wrong with that, but it's just 5% of her range. She can do anything, and I'm sure we'll see her prove that. SMG seems determined to make a name in the fart comedy movie world. I can see how she'd need a change of pace... But she'll be back in the serious acting world where she belongs in a while. Eliza Dushku, the one star to come out of Buffy in my book, can be as big as she wants to be. If she wants to spend the effort. And so on.
And whatever Joss does after this, it will not be nothing. He's incapable of that. And it will not be boring.
So, don't be sad. This is only the beginning.
Naw, best ass-shot was in "Cruel Intentions" (I know, cheezy remake of another movie altogether), where she tells her step brother that if he wins the bet, he can have her and "anywhere you want", (as she's laying back on a bed, fully clothed) then she swings one leg up and over, showing him her ass - implying that she's up for anal.
THAT was the best ass shot without showing any flesh. Of all time.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.