Mining Mars from Houston

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Posted by michael on Friday March 14, 2003 @11:11PM from the workarounds dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Computer simulations of what bits of Earth, Mars and Venus might be found on the moon point to new methods for extraterrestrial sample return. Because the moon is lifeless, its sterile condition gives a very rare laboratory for collecting what may be as high as 3 grams of Earth's past, from the half-ton of lunar rocks and soil that Apollo returned for study [3 grams (Earth-terran), 0.03 grams (Mars), 0.003 grams (Venus)]. While such interplanetary exchanges are now thought common, what is surprising is these pristine samples often have never exceeded a temperature of around 100 F. Any similar planetary samples found today in, say, Antarctica, would have been weathered, eroded, or contaminated."

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Re:Idiot. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-14 23:33 · Score: 0

Read the post again, he wasn't talking about force. It usually helps to be right when calling someone an idiot, else the term could easily be applied to the person saying it.
Interesting stuff by Matrix2110 · 2003-03-14 23:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

One thing I would point out is that there is very little chance of recovering DNA from these samples, Correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure that will happen :) ) but organic matter would not stand a chance against the vacuum and radiation involved here.
1. Re:Interesting stuff by WegianWarrior · 2003-03-14 23:55 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  While recovering DNA may be hard / impossible (I'm fixing military aircraft for a living, not extracting organinc matter from rocks), we still can learn a lot of interesting things. After all, we can't extract DNA from a fossil, yet it teaches us (or rather, the guys who do that sort of thing for a living or as a hobby) a lot about the creature in question.
  
  I am, however, reminded by a television programe I saw on Discovery Europe a while back... where they 'proved' - by setting up a simulated Mars-base in Antartica or somewhere - that human explorers might see signs of life that a robotic explorer would miss. And I'm sure they could set up a (simplified?) DNA-extraction lab in a potential Mars-base too, thus preventing any organic remains from beeing erradicated by the radiation in outer space.
  
  --
  Everything in the world is controlled by a small, evil group to which, unfortunately, no one you know belongs.
2. Re:Interesting stuff by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-14 23:58 · Score: 0
  
  That is a good reason to have a manned mars expedition.
3. Re:Interesting stuff by s1234d · 2003-03-15 08:32 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Apollo 12 landed on the moon next to a Surveyor probe that had been there for a couple of years. The astronauts cut off a camera, and brought it back to earth. Inside the camera some bacteria were still technically alive, but in a dormant state. So the vacuum won't destroy DNA by itself, and if bacteria if in a crack deep in a rock then radiation is not really an issue either.
if you follow correct procedures by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-14 23:48 · Score: 0

Put on the proper space suit with no leakage before exploring for gold on that planet. Watch out for wind storms. Explore with caution!
DNA by DredPirateRoberts · 2003-03-14 23:59 · Score: 1

I'm fairly certain that Space.com has had a couple recent stories to the effect that some organic molecules in fact could survive hard vacuum, if they were buried and sealed inside a meteorite. I think that high-energy ionizing radiation would be the most limiting factor to survival of any hypothetical DNA in these rocks. IIRC, there was even mention that they could be protected from the heat of reentry under the right conditions.
"Weird, wild stuff," to quote Johnny Carson.

--
"All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - George Orwell
Here's the link by DredPirateRoberts · 2003-03-15 00:06 · Score: 5, Informative

This article is what I was thinking of.

--
"All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others." - George Orwell
That's what I'm talking about! by theBunkinator · 2003-03-15 00:08 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Getting high on 3 grams of "Earth's past"!
apparently by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 00:09 · Score: 0

apparently, it's used by some people bound together by greed for wealth and power who disregard everyone but themselves to get ahead in life.
1. Re:apparently by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 00:32 · Score: 0
  
  Damn thats nice! The best thing is that most of the people its targetted at are too stupid to realise that it's aimed at them. The best putdown of all.
from Houston? by commodoresloat · 2003-03-15 00:11 · Score: 4, Funny

You're kidding. There's oil on Mars?
1. Re:from Houston? by Thyrhaug · 2003-03-15 00:37 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  how long 'till bush declares mars as their territory, and threatens whoever tries to colonize it with nuclear wars and no more friendship?
2. Re:from Houston? by flippet · 2003-03-15 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  You're kidding. There's oil on Mars?
  Oil on Mars? But NASA doesn't know anything about drilling for oil! Who shall we send?
  Phil
  
  --
  "Cattle Prods solve most of life's little problems."
3. Re:from Houston? by benson+hedges · 2003-03-15 01:33 · Score: 1
  
  Definitely not. If there was oil on Mars, Dubya would have long declared war on it. :)
  
  --
  Karma : Soylent Green (Mostly due to eating junk food and mocking religion)
4. Re:from Houston? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 03:16 · Score: 0
  
  You're kidding. There's oil on Mars? ATTACK!
5. Re:from Houston? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 03:32 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You said: Definitely not. If there was oil on Mars, Dubya would have long declared war on it. :)
  
  <rant>Fuckups like you shouldn't breed. If we wanted the oil, we would appease Iraq so they could pump it all day long and bring the price to $10, not kick their leadership's ass.
  
  Do a little homework, and ask the FRENCH about the oil and $$$. There are NO American oil companies profiting in Iraq. Only French and Russian. Listen to what Iraqi's who are outside waiting to go back say. Why is is that every Iraqi living outside Iraq thinks the US is doing a tough thing for the right reasons, and openly SAYS that France and Russia are more concerned with their financial interests? Its not MY opinion, its the opinion of IRAQIS who are in a position to speak freely.
  
  It just galls you pricks that the man is doing what he thinks is right (whether or not you and i agree), and you can't attack that, so you make up this false 'for oil' shit. No one, except you fellow idealogs, buys this arguement. Go crawl back under the agenda driven rock you crawled out from under and get your facts straight.
  
  Attack the policies, attack the ideas, fine:
  We can debate ideas, but when you attack the individual instead, it shows you don't have an arguement, just a bone to pick. </rant>
Ralph by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 00:12 · Score: 0

Ralph: I found a moonrock up my nose...

Bart: Houston,... we have a problem...
Previous research by LegendLength · 2003-03-15 00:12 · Score: 4, Interesting

Unmanned gathering of moon rock was carried out back in 1972 by the Russians. It took 7 years after the analysis was published before anyone realized that there were organic patterns in the samples.

Real images of the fossils show bacteria-like shapes. There were claims that these fossils prove existance of life elsewhere in space but it seems more likely to me that they somehow came from Earth.
ASTEROID sample return. by zzztkf · 2003-03-15 00:14 · Score: 5, Informative

Japan's space agency,ISAS, is attepmting to send
a probe to asteroid 1998SF36 and get sample to
retrun to Earth.

Launch will take place 2003, May.

http://www.isas.ac.jp/e/index.html
Re:Idiot. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 00:21 · Score: 0

He was just fucking with you! Can't you take a joke?
Re:Yes, butt... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 00:23 · Score: 0

Don't be afaid to get your hands dirty.Dig in!
Mars? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 01:06 · Score: 0

You mean Al Mardh?
Frist Hilary Duff Own Linux Geek Prost! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 01:20 · Score: 0

0 \/\/ n 3 D :dancing banana:
Safe Sample Return by photonrider · 2003-03-15 01:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

There are some scientists worred about bringing samples directly from Mars to Earth. Fears of some unknown contamination. A moon base would be a perfect place to return from a Mars trip with samples. Keeps Earth isolated from possible contaminants.
1. Re:Safe Sample Return by Idarubicin · 2003-03-18 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  A moon base would be a perfect place to return from a Mars trip with samples.
  Yeah, but then you would have to take the samples (and astronauts, and gear) down into the Moon's gravity well, and eventually bring them back up again. Which is not to say that I'm opposed to a Moon base--it would be a valuable research site for any number of reasons. It's just that if you need a waypoint on the way back from Mars, why not use a preexisting continuously manned space station in earth orbit?
  
  --
  ~Idarubicin
whois going to protect mars from US? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 01:31 · Score: 0

doesn't matter, if there ARE any martians, they can either get with the 'program', or be deleted with the rest.
1. Re:whois going to protect mars from US? by JPriest · 2003-03-15 01:47 · Score: 1
  
  What ever virus/bacteria/parasites might be there could have been responsible for extinction what ever life that may have existed there. What if AIDS was airborne? What if mosquitoes caused nests of larvae to grow around your intestines? Anytime you introduce a new species to a new climate, you upset the natural balance of life.
  
  --
  Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
2. Re:whois going to protect mars from US? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 12:07 · Score: 0
  
  What the fsck is going on here? IIRC Apollo missions 11,12,14 ALL had a decontamination module that was transported to the ship that recovered the vessels. And the next 2 or 3 missions were deemed sanitary.
  
  What about the command module that splashed down into the ocean after having contact with the lunar module that could very well have picked up microbes (such as AIDS or Ebola or insert favorite microbe/virus here) and such contamination or however you want to spell it didn't actually already "infect" earth through the ocean that our own capsules splashed down into? Yes I know that the chance that this happen is roughly the same as me hitting the powerball lottery.... but why do we keep thinking that we are "safe" and ignoring the possibility that we may have already set off the "doomsday" device?
Re: goatse.cx like link by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 01:33 · Score: 0

EWWWWWW! Nasty! In the name of god do not click on the links!!
Re:Want to really quit drinking ? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 01:35 · Score: 0

This is what could happen if you overdrink! Now do you really want to drink again? I think not.
Why is everything base 3? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 01:43 · Score: 0

Why is everthing some exponent of a third of a gram?
Funding un-manned mining... by billysara · 2003-03-15 01:50 · Score: 5, Funny

Funding research on bringing back oil/minerals from high-radiation, toxic environments will certainly come in handy if the middle-east goes nuclear....

Yes, I'm feeling cynical today..... :-)
Another Stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 02:25 · Score: 0

Search 10 square km on the moon to find a speck of mars of a micro speck of venus.

Wouldn't it just be easier to send a probe to those planets and sent back say 10 POUNDS of ROCK!

hello?

Ya we got 400kg of the moon here but think there going to let them go over everything looking for that .003 grams?
Mass, not weight. by AJWM · 2003-03-15 04:48 · Score: 1, Informative

[3 grams (Earth-terran), 0.03 grams (Mars), 0.003 grams (Venus)]

Harumph! Grams are a unit of mass, not of weight, and thus independant of the gravitational force exerted on it. 3 grams on Earth is 3 grams on Mars is 3 grams on Venus is 3 grams in freefall.

Not only that, but the gravity of Venus is not one tenth that of Mars, it is closer to twice that of Mars: Venus is nearly as big as Earth. (Nor is the gravity of Mars only 1/100th Earth, it's about 1/3 Earth.)

Geez. If somebody was trying to be funny, it came off as incredibly stupid.

--
-- Alastair
Huh? by freeweed · 2003-03-15 05:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

The amounts they're talking about are what they expect to be able to extract from the half-ton or so that Apollo returned. 3 grams of material from Earth, 0.03g from Mars (makes sense, it's a hell of a lot further away), and 0.003g from Venus (far away, and closer to the sun. material has one hell of a time getting AWAY from the sun's gravitational well).

I'd say yeesh, read the article before you spout off your ignorance, but hey, this is Slashdot.

--
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 08:10 · Score: 0
  
  Amen.
2. Re:Huh? by barakn · 2003-03-15 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  The dense atmosphere of Venus also dissipates the kinetic energy of incoming projectiles and outgoing ejecta.
  It wasn't even necessary to read the article, just the /. blurb, to figure out they were talking about mass fractions of lunar soil.
  
  --
  "I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
Er what the hell by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-15 09:47 · Score: 0

Maybe you don't understand the how the SI system is applied in everday use. Grams are definitely used as a unit of weight(force) where I live and also used as a unit of mass.

No one goes around talking about "how much does it cost for 400 Newtons of Apples?"

I guess it is the weight at sea level on Earth.