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Texas Rep Wants To Jail File Traders
kUnGf00m45t3r writes "There is an article on Wired about how Texas Rep. John Carter wants to jail some college students to scare people away from illegal file sharing. He says, "What these kids don't realize is that every time they pull up music and movies and make a copy, they are committing a felony under the United States code," Carter said in an interview. "If you were to prosecute someone and give them three years, I think this would act as a deterrent." Right..."
Am I the only one who finds this to be condescending? "These kids" is no better than "you people" - I'm sure most Americans will remember the "you people" scandal from the mid-90s.
The world is going to hell in a handbasket.
DROS - Open-Source Robot Software
Great 3 years in prison is plenty of time for them to learn how to be a real criminal. And since the felony will create problems getting a job when they get out, they will have the inclination to do illegal things for money so they can eat and pay rent.
There just isn't enough violent crime in the US anymore. Let's all thank the Texan for finding a way to correct that problem.
His priorities are all fucked up.
His priority is corporate payrolls, not the people.
Revolition time, overthrow the gov. that the people Remember, the gov is SUPPOST to represent the PEOPLE, lately they just represent the CORPORATION.
Overthrow it.
Filesharing is, in my opinion, much like speeding. A whole hell of a lot of people do it, and only a small percentage ever get caught or have to face the music, so to speak. When more than half of drivers are doing 70 in a 55, and only 1 in 5,000 are pulled over and given a ticket, there is no deterrent! Similarly, if you've got hundreds of thousands of students sharing files illegally, and you only punish "a few" of them, that's not going to discourage the rest of them.
The idea that "they won't bust me" is always going to be prevalent. Either we put them all in jail for committing these horrible felonies, or we don't bother busting any of them.
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
Huh? Talk about screwy logic - where does it say "for every song purchase you get to steal one" ?! If you purchased 100 cd's great. If you've pirated 99 mp3's, you've committed 99 felonies, no matter how many you bought legally. No, obeying the law doesn't make you eligible to commit crimes ;)
Sheesh.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
The real threat right now is spammers, not file traders. Is something that affects and in some way or another harm or could harm us all. Why not put them all in jails? or in pits, or use them as human shields on iraq, etc.
From the article:
"What these kids don't realize is that every time they pull up music and movies and make a copy, they are committing a felony under the United States code," Carter said in an interview. "If you were to prosecute someone and give them three years, I think this would act as a deterrent."
I know the american judicial and political system can be pretty screwed up at time, but just how much support does this guy think he's going to get from his constituents (read votes), when he starts sending kids to jail for three years in punishment for what amounts to fiften dollars worth of copyright violation?
To compare, how long do you expect Jeffrey Skilling (former Enron CEO) to spend in jail for the $30 billion lost there . . .
Ric Campaign for the national sig: "*Just kidding, Admiral Poindexter!"
students, the intellectual future and security of a nation, all turning up on his doorstep turning themselves in for 3 years jailtime. A great way to point out the stupidity of his words, and secure free accomodation until the end of your education.
I remember while rejecting the case for breaking up MS, Dubya said we don't want to send the wrong messages to American Corporations. They mustn't feel endangered to carry on innovating in their own country.
What message does jailing students send to American citizens? The one I can hear is "Innovative students who offend Corporations will be jailed. Even if the 'guilty act' does not merit such severe action ".
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
We're not talking about stealing here. We're talking about copyright infringement. i.e. violation opf their exclusive right to reproduce.
I agree, I do attend concerts. That is where most artists make their money anyways.
In the grand scheme of things, cleaning out corrupt politicians is a whole lot more important than cracking down in file trading by people with no money. I'm sure jailing people like Carter for a few years would have a wonderfully deterrent effect on other politicians. What about it?
"A felony conviction is a terrible thing to have on your record," Carter said. Among other things, he said, a person would not be able to become an officer in the U.S. military if convicted of a felony.
OMG!!! You mean, I wont get to rape young girls in Bosnia, engage in illegal trafficking, be able to rub shoulders with terrible Afghanistan warlords and partake in their feasts, form an illegal nexus with the Defence Contractors, be a pawn to the politicians and shoot innocent civilians in broad daylight ?????
Please...please tell me that aint true..
This Texas Rep seems to have forgotten WHO elected him, the parents of "these kids" and sending someone to jail for three years for swapping files (albeit copyrighted works) seems rather harsh, they'd probably have been better off to actually steal the CDs! (In terms of their sentence)
I don't think that a justice system should be used to "scare" someone - especially when a great number of people don't think that much of a crime has been committed. Basically people have taped each others' CDs and records for years, and music still gets made, Puffy Daddy still buys his plane, the sky doesn't fall in. The problem is we don't see "these kids" as criminals - okay they are, but not the kind of criminals who need to be jailed. We do see a lot of musicians as criminals though, they make vast fortunes from music that is likely to inflame racial tensions and advocate criminal acts - this Texas Rep should choose his friends more wisely if he hopes to be re-elected.
It also seems pretty hypocritical to add a levy on blank CD media and STILL go after individuals who are buying them. It seems that the music industry wants to be paid twice - once for original CDs and once for blank media.
the first rule of governing is not to make laws that cannot be effectively enforced without significant effort. There are examples of such foolery, prohibition comes to mind.
Enforcing copy right law is impossible without tremendous effort and cost. Problem is, the US government, and most other governments in the civilized world, are tripping down that road hand-in-hand with the copyright cartels.
I do not wish to have my tax dollars spent enforcing the copy right monopolies of others. When tax dollars are spent wrting and enforcing laws pertaining to copy right that is exactly what is happening.
If you abide by a law 100 times does it make it right to break it 99 times?
No, I guess not.
I'm not talking about whether or not the law is just, but whether prior compliance with a law makes it alright to disregard the law later.
But if I concede that it is wrong to break the law (at least in the situation above), then the question of whether the law is just is a lot more important. There's also the question of whether the law is sensible. A law that can't be enforced and is flouted that much makes a mockery of the legal system.
"Sometimes it takes the shock value of someone actually being punished," Carter said. "In this particular instance it might also send a message to these kids that are operating on these networks that, 'Hey, I better stop.'"
Boycotts are a good idea but imagine the shock value of millions of students registering to vote in order to "send a message" back to Congressman Carter. Fighting corruption while simultaneously keeping your butt out of jail would be cool too.
For me, if they can guarantee me that the CD I buy wont scratch, crack or split for my lifetime, then I would be happy to pay the money.
As it is, I do buy a few CDs, but only if I consider the package as a whole is worth owning. If record companies want people to buy CDs they should try making the product 'value-added' enough that its better than just having the MP3. Good artwork, lyric sheets, stylised packaging. Do anything to make it worth the money, but don't expect people to pay for a CD when its as easy as ripping it, or P2Ping it.
Thats my opinion anyway.
"I'm tired of all this 'Aren't humanity great' bullshit. We're a virus with shoes" - Bill Hicks
Register to vote. Today.
Call Carter if you want, not that it'll do much good; he got 78% of the vote in his last election in a district that votes even more Republican than the rest of the state, if such a thing is possible.
But maybe you can throw a scare into some of his colleagues.
The antidote is massive voter registration. These guys are counting on college students to not vote; are you going to fulfill their expectations?
It really bothers me that the RIAA et al compares digital media piracy to be the very same as walking into a store and shoplifting a CD. Conceptually--alright, I see their point that theft is theft. But, let's compare apples to apples here.
Swapping a song is more akin to going to your library and copying an article out of an encyclopedia. I mean, the library paid for that encyclopedia, but Britannica certainly isn't getting any type of royalty or extra revenue for your actions. And, this behavior is actually accepted (otherwise, why did my college library have eight copy machines on each floor?).
The fact is, and this has been stated over and over again, that the recording industry is using a business model that is quickly becoming antiquated because it has not adapted to changes in digital media capabilities (i.e., instant gratification: easier and cheaper to download a single track from the Internet than to drive to the music store).
Furthermore, what is the motivation or desireable quality of owning a physical CD at the cost of $15? For the eight garbage tracks that you get in addition to the 1 or 2 good songs? For the really cool cover artwork? For the satisfaction that your $15 contributed to the squandering lifestyle of the artist, or even worse, the recording label?
Perhaps my views are seeded in jealousy. There, I said it. Because I have no marketable talent, I'm forced to work 40+ hours a week and live entirely on that paycheck. Recording stars might put in long hours at the studio (boo hoo--we all put in long hours to meet our deadlines probably more frequently than they record an album), but in my eyes, they aren't truly working unless they're touring. And, just because they can sing or otherwise attract public appeal, they have the opportunity to afford all kinds of luxuries PLUS have big companies give them all kinds of products for free in hopes of some sort of endorsement. I wonder what that would be like....
Call it theft or whatever, but I think that the everyday 40+ hour a week employee has voiced its opposition to the practices of the recording industry that takes money away from the working class to support the lifestyle of the artists.
There are laws against such activities. But as long as a bunch of corrupt, self-serving, unconstitutional cowards are in charge, no real action against white-collar crimes will ever be taken.
Or, to put it differently: As long as white-collar criminals are in charge, white-collar crimes will be tolerated.
What I don't understand is why ordinary people tolerate and defend Bush's actions. After all, it is you and I who pay the bill at the end of the day.
SIG: TAKE OFF EVERY 'CAPTAIN'!!
The US has a higher proportion of its citizens in jail than any other country - in all of history.
This isn't just in comparison with other "democracies", this is of anywhere, including dictatorships.
It now looks like it's trying hard to keep anyone else from approaching this record.
This is something for the "land of the free" to be ashamed of, not proud of.
"Forget the muderers and rapists, they are no threat to society. We need to lock up file traders!" Who is this asshat? Boycott the recording industry.
How ya like dat?
Seriously, this guy apparently forgot two of the kost fundamental rules of justice: the penalty must be in proportion to the fault and justice must be equal for all. While in theory jailing someone "to make an exemple" might work for some time, it is making justice by exception AND abusive penalty.
For the above reason, my thought is that this guy is only after the publicity as such a proposal wouldn't go through a real court.
83% of all statistics are made up. can you match some names to those numbers?
For more arguing, the chocolate bars would still exist in the store, but what if you cloned the bars?
I guess it is actually the ability to enjoy the bar, and not the bar itself, that they are selling.
Like how they're selling the right to hear the sound waves, and not the right to own the media. sort of. It's just the sound waves are contained on the media, and you can't steal another because you don't own the rights to two copies of the sound waves.
And why do CDs cost more than tapes?
We're not taking anything. We're copying.
Using that logic, you might as well say that taking a photo of someone is stealing.
I love this idea. In fact, I think that we should start raiding the Bush daughters' rooms and throw them in jail for 3 years. You can't tell me that those two aren't illegally downloading music.
If not them, then certainly the children of representatives and senators. If this guy wants to show how truly just he is, then I'm sure he'd be more than happy to make his children examples of what happens when you don't follow the law.
Oh, and when in doubt, blame college students!
Copyright infringement is not as serious of a crime as politicians, the RIAA, and the MPAA would like people to think. If I cross the street at crosswalks 100 times, and I jaywalk 99 times, should I get jailed? Who has been hurt?
Jails are for extremely violent or disorderly people who have the potential to ruin others' lives and do not care what happens to others. Most college students (except for some of the frat boys around here) do not fit into this category (not even close!). Jails are for dangerous crimes; violent crimes are dangerous, drugs are considered dangerous (perhaps if you are a pusher, but what about the rest of the people in jail for drug dealings and possession?), and cheating the (economic) system in grandiose ways is sometimes considered dangerous.
How is file sharing, something that has been going on for years and years *anyway* (ever copied a tape or CD? recorded something off the radio kept it? recorded something off TV and kept it?), suddenly such a grandiose crime that it is ruining others' lives in such a serious way?
Jails are designed to hurt and punish people who haven't learned not to hurt and punish others. By not buying a CD, who am I hurting? If I like an artist enough, I will by their CD. If I don't consider it worth my money, I won't. In the past, I would just tape songs I liked off of the radio to make mix tapes. How is this different? Let's start turning in powerful people for making mix tapes with songs off the radio, shall we? I do believe that qualifies as an "illegal download." Then maybe people will realize how ridiculous this whole business is (in most cases, anyhow).
Piracy? Theft? Hahahahahahaha. I guess "copyright infringment" isn't scary enough of a word. If I go to jail for piracy, I better have looted and pillaged. If I go to jail for theft, I better have acquired lots of new physical possessions from a store, defeating store security.
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
Locking up a few of "these kids" worked so well with our War on Drugs!
If he succeeds, pretty soon there won't be any file trading, just like now there are no more illegal drugs in this country!
Actually - boycotting CD's is going to (already I think) have the opposite effect intended.
The record industry can then point to the drop in sales and say "SEE! We told you so! Our sales are hurting because of file sharing!" and the law will crack down even harder until enough people cough over the dough.
I'm not saying you should support the record industry - I don't - but just cold hard facts.
-- If it ain't broke - overclock it more.
Imagine the result in a "three strikes" state like California. It's conceivable, and was recently upheld by the Supreme Court, that someone could get LIFE IN PRISON for having a record of 3 felonies, each of which was for file trading.
That's absurd.
It's also absurd that someone is willing to ruin some bright and basically good kid's life (a felony on your record severely limits your options) just to make an example and a point.
Here's a legal proposal for you: it should be unlawful to use criminal law to make examples of anyone. If you prosecute one offender, you should have to prosecute them all. (College campuses everywhere are suddenly vacant; millions of voices are suddenly silenced.)
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Shareaza (www.shareaza.com) gives you Gnutella access, and the best search filters around. You can see song length, kbp/s, and many other parameters due to the metadata system.
This guy apparently has never heard of the phrase selective enforcement.
For those that do not know, it is illegal to practice selective enforcement.
The reason it isn't legal, and shouldn't be is that by only presecuting select individuals, you create an inequity in the justice system (ok.. don't get on me about all the inequities there are now).
The point is that selective enforcement allows people (not laws) to determine who gets punished. Be the wrong skin color, wrong age, not buy-off enough people, and those prosecutors may come after you for simple crimes.
So, in order to send ANY number of people to jail, the prosecutors must show that they are actively persuing all crimes of this nature. In fact, if I was one of these kids I would probably use that as a defense. I would put to burden on the prosecutor to prove to a jury that they are not targeting (profiling) my racial/ethnical/age profile. Show me the hundreds of other cases out there you are investigating, etc..etc..
... is that prosecuting every single one of them, or even more than just a handful of them, would end up costing more money than what the record companies are "losing" to piracy. Even if we had ten times the number of prisons we do now, there still wouldn't be enough space to hold even half of the infringers. Ultimately, in a digital age, you can't even make a dent in illegal copying without trying to stop *all* copying, legal or otherwise. It is, btw, impossible to refute the existence of legal copying -- for example, a company doing regular backups of its own data. And since media is, ultimately, just data -- it's only the end user (and arguably the application that the media format is intended for) that sees such media for what it is. Until computers can think like people, they will not be able to differentiate between copyrighted data and uncopyrighted data, so any legislation in this matter at this point is meaningless without halting progression of the arts until computer technology can "safely" accomodate it.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
When I moved out to go to university last year and got my (off-campus, non-university) broadband internet connection up, I signed up for a little service called Audiogalaxy. Anyone remember Audiogalaxy? It was a community-oriented p2p music-trading service. The community-oriented bit, I found fantastic. Yes, you could just use it to download songs. You could also, however, join groups of people with similar musical tastes, who would forward you songs from artists you may never have heard before. Had it not been for Audiogalaxy, I might never have been introduced to artists like Pedro the Lion, Onelinedrawing, and The Weakerthans.
In the last year, I bought two CDs by The Weakerthans, one by Onelinedrawing, I have an order form filled out for a pair of Pedro the Lion CDs, some Pedro the Lion and Onelinedrawing merchandise, and I have tickets to see The Weakerthans in Calgary this weekend.
Is this a bad thing for the artists and labels? Do they just not want my money? I wouldn't have spent that money on Eminem and Britney Spears, sorry. If I hadn't been introduced to these other bands I wouldn't have spent that money on music at all. Peer-to-peer could be an absolute goldmine for the recording industry. It's free advertising. Do you know how much the recording industry spend on advertising last year? I don't even want to look it up. I'm afraid the incredible size of the number would cause this library computer to crash. It's probably written with scientific notation.
The funny thing is, the people who have the most lobbying power within the RIAA aren't the small record labels like Jade Tree or G7 or Vagrant or Deep Elm, the little guys who are attempting to run an honest business, support good artists, and bring good art out so that the public can enjoy it. They're the giant conglomerates, the ones who are responsible for Toni Braxton going broke despite selling $188 million dollars worth of CDs. These people don't care if I want to listen to good music. These people hate that I spend my money on bands I like, rather than no-talent pop-sensations. These people do not represent legitimate artists and recording companies - these people represent parasites, who take advantage of artists in able to fill their own pockets.
I can't use Audiogalaxy now. It got turned into a pay-service, and copyright restrictions wrecked the entire service. I buy far fewer records now, because I have less exposure to new artists. My friends still recommend bands to me; I'll read about a show someone went to in their livejournal, and I'll download an mp3, and if I like the band, I may end up buying a CD or some concert tickets. I'm a pirate, a felon, and a thief for that. This is insane.
Yes, there will be people out there who will never buy music, ever. They'll steal mp3s and burn hundreds of CDs. Whatever. There are people out there that pirate dvds, too. Yes, it does hurt the industry. What will hurt the industry more, though, is clinging to outdated business models and preying upon the artists that provide the foundation for the entire industry. These mega-corps could be capitalising upon free advertising, diversifying their portfolios. They could have a Spears for every genre going platinum, and without having to spend millions on full-page ads in Vanity Fair and putting giant billboards up in Times Square.
It won't happen. The big-wigs will continue to bleed their artists dry and fight all calls for change. And I'll continue to steal mp3s, listen to who I like, and buy CDs from talented artists who can't whore themselves out on Coca-Cola commercials, people whose success is based on actual artistic merit. So it goes.