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Updates on War in Iraq
New Developments on the war in Iraq:
Oil Fields ablaze in southern Iraq.
Turkey opens airspace to U.S..
US Forces 3rd Infantry Fire Heavy Artillery at Southern Iraq.
The schedule has been accelerated due to infrastructure destruction.
CT: Explosions and heavy anti aircraft fire heard in Baghdad.
We'll continue to update as new information warrants.
Serious question: where are y'all getting your info on the war? I'm talking in depth stuff like tactics, maps. Not just the CNN bs, but real stuff like great terrain maps and discussions of the weaponry.
"If I could live to be several hundred
I could take a walk and really wander, really wonder."
Hmmm, interesting how the oil gets mentioned, wouldnt put it above some corporations to use war as an excuse to up prices! They've been stockpiling for years and this war isnt about oil .. is it?
Even though half my students are against the war and the other half are for, they all are interested, involved, and informed. I've been grilled by my students with better questions than I have been by adults. There's a healthy population of students who want to protest the war, and a healthy bunch who see this war as something really important. Logarithms, exponentials? No, today, my students showed me that they can care about something, and I have nothing but confidence that some day my students will be critical thinking adults that make a difference in this country.
May free speech continue to live, in spite of the attempts of the far right to silence it, and the far left to exploit it.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
Why does this remind me of the Soviet Union when they came to "help" their neighbour states?
He saw some dirty arabs and fired. Too bad it was just some friendly kurds, BBC reporters and his fellow cowboys.
I can't wait until the war is over to see the French doing their tap dance. For those who think the French, Germans, and Russians are really concerned with peace when they blast their 'no war' rhetoric, think again. They are trying their best to keep the US out of Iraq so we won't find all the French weapons and nuclear equipment. Who do you think built the Nuclear Reactor for Iraq in the 80's? The French. It's no secret that they knew it was for weapons building purposes. Now they are sh*tting bricks waiting for the US to liberate Iraq and in the process, find all the illegal technology sold to them by the lovely French.
Quote:
Granted, it's too early to be so optimistic, but surely the lack of any battlefield coordination in Iraq after an attempted hit on Hussein is a bigger story than the 4 oil wells that are on fire.
If you think about it, however, there may be a silver lining to this cloud. France and others have stated that if Iraq were to use chemical/biological weapons, that would change things completely and bring them in on the side of the U.S. That provides a powerful incentive for Saddam not to use these weapons - by not doing so he keeps France, Germany and Russia on his side in calling for an end to hostilities. The bottom line, however, is that we don't need those countries' military support, but if they help prevent the use of chemical/biological weapons, that's OK by me...
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CNN reported this morning that there is concern that Iraq knew our F-117 Stealths were coming and started anti-aircraft fire. This is a huge concern, as they are supposed to be undetectable (a.k.a. "stealthy").
If this is true, there is no way the technology to detect our stealths was developed in Iraq. It begs the question: did one of the countries that opposes the war pass this advanced technology, obviously developed since the 1991 Gulf War, to Iraq as an underhanded way of flipping the bird to the US and Bush?
when we already know that US has 100% chance to win? During the "war" in 1991, we used to make jokes about how pathetic the whole ordeal was. Nowadays the US has an even bigger upper hand in the matter, what with all the new technology and weapons we've perfected during the past decade.
But although victory conditions are basically assured for US, the long term effects are probably going to come and bite us in the ass. Already many arabs are displeased with our initiative, and we haven't even killed (many) civilians yet. If (or should I say when) Bush decides that it's "hammer time", then the arabs will truly have something to be pissed about, and we'll see the long term effects of that in more terrorist acts on US soil.
The truth of the matter is, until the US stops supporting Israel, there will be terrorist acts directed towards us. You can't ally yourself with a bully and expect the rest of the schoolyard to be your friend.
Did the U.S. Set Fire to Kuwait's Oil Fields?
A popular radio program heard worldwide claims to have proof that the United States, working under the auspices of the United Nations, was responsible for igniting the massive oil field fires in Kuwait at the close of the first Iraqi war. The controversial talk show team of Joyce Riley and Dave VonKleist host the Missouri-based program "The Power Hour" which is carried mostly by independent and "patriot" radio stations. The program boasts an audience of several million listeners.
The duo has provided a transcript of an interview recently conducted with a Gulf War veteran who alleges that he participated in the covert detonation campaign of Kuwaiti oil wells, crafted to implicate Iraq, in order to "remove any doubts that Saddam Hussein and his regime were a terrible evil that had to be dealt with." This mission was allegedly necessary because "there was concern that America... might see this conflict as an unnecessary thing."
The talk show hosts, who gained notoriety for championing causes supporting Gulf War veterans, assert that this interview is bolstered by other independent testimonials they have received. "The information provided over a series of meetings with this veteran corroborates the reports from other veterans who are totally unconnected with this individual," the duo states in their press release.
Would your leader have given up power if the Russians had threatened them? How would you have felt if they had? The Iraqi people expect the same dedication from their leaders and they do not welcome the invasion in the way your press tell you.
The US have now given Turkey the all clear to attack the Kurds in return for clearance to overfly Turkey so even those that do want Saddam gone will no longer welcome this war.
Most people can see that democracy is an illusion like communism. So what is really going to be the outcome of this conflict. Will it be like Afghanistan? One load of tin pots exchanged for another? If true democracy was the intention then we had better stop trying to kill Saddam as a lot of Iraqis would want to vote for him. I think it will be seen as just another case of imperialism when the US only allows Iraqis to vote for people that the US thinks are suitable. There is no real intention to allow the Iraqi people to decide for themselves. They want someone who will stand up to the US and fight for their freedom.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
We *are* dealing with the North Korean situation. Pakistan is a political necessity that probably won't last long past all this, especially if they don't get their shit together. So is Saudi Arabia. Yes, it's unfair. That's world diplomacy. Get over it.
We're showing the world that we're done with 'appeasement mode' and that we're actually going to do what we say we're going to do.
You think that after we stomp the shit out of Hussein that North Korea is going to keep on squealing? Hell no. And they've got far more to worry about than Saddam does.
Every person on earth knows that if a single nuke were launched from any rougue nation (like Iraq), they'd be vasprozed from the planet by every nuclear power that existed. They'd get only one shot.
I'd risk a single act of random violence upon myself if it meant we lived in a freer nation (Ashcroft) and the world didn't dispise us (Bush).
Method of processing duck feet
I ran across this blog from a resident of Baghdad. Apparently, music websites aren't scragged by Iraqi security. It's not media coverage, but it gives a certain perspective you won't find in the media.
http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/
I worry that I might be perhaps causing trouble for the guy, but I figure if he put it on the web he wants people to see it.
http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=382 8
There's a picture of both Optimus Primes (Optimii Prime?) on the site.
National guardman changed his name to a toy
CUYAHOGA FALLS -- A member of Ohio's 5694th National Guard Unit in Mansfield legally changed his name to a Transformers toy.
Optimus Prime is heading out to the Middle East with his guard unit on Wednesday to provide fire protection for airfields under combat.
"On Sunday, we were awarded as the best firefighting unit in the Army National Guard in the entire country," said Prime. "That was a big moment for us."
Prime took his name from the leader of the Autobots Transformers, which were popular toys and a children's cartoon in the 1980s.
He legally changed his name on his 30th birthday and now it's on everything from his driver's licence, to his military ID, to his uniform.
"They razzed me for three months to no end," said Prime. "They really dug into me about it."
"I got a letter from a general at the Pentagon when the name change went through and he says it was great to have the employ of the commander of the Autobots in the National Guard."
Prime says the toy actually filled a void in his life when it came out.
"My dad passed away the year before and I didn't have anybody really around, so I really latched onto him when i was a kid," he said.
riding round the world on an old motorcycle
Interestingly enough, the Iraqis heard this statement before from the British when they took over Iraq from the Ottomans. Some Iraqis were amused at the similarity. I agree with the sentiment...I just hope we follow through.
Whatever else you may say about the Brits, they have some awfully fine orators. Just flip back and forth between C-SPAN coverage of our Congress and the Prime Minister's question time in the House of Commons to get a comparison that puts our legislators to shame...
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Having just finished The Return of the King, it's funny how much of this way of speech reminds me of Aragorn et al to their troops.
He's no Texan, pal. George HW Bush bought a ranch in Texas, but the Bush family is really your standard New England whitebread, not too different from the Kennedys...
Dubya, despite his accent, ain't much of a real Texan. What real Texan would skip out on Vietnam, then skip out on National Guard duty? It ain't right, amigo...it ain't right.
You know, that's funny that you say that, because they weren't scuds. Sorry.
Rest assured, whether they exist or not, the U.S. will report finding W.O.M.D. in Iraq. Convenient that the phantom "scud" just happened to be totally obliterated by a patriot missile this morning.
Also rest assured that there are plenty of people who want to believe the "coalition" is doing the right thing for the right reasons, and like the parent poster, will swallow any b.s. rumors which support that idea without bothering to verify them.
As my (american) wife said when she overheard me listening to Blairs speech: "Wow, he sounds much more intelligent than Bush".
Not a flambait, but compare their recent pre-invasion speeches and you'll find Blair using numbers and facts where Bush resorts to patriotism and ideals.
Wax-Museum Fire Results In Hundreds Of New Danny DeVito Statues
Using a web translater to read AlJazeera, found this:
"US military sources reported that limited raids on Iraq would last for two days before
an intensive wide-range attack."
go to http://tarjim.ajeeb.com/
then put in http://aljazeera.net/
Wonder if CNN *knows* this but doesn't tell so people stay glued to TV's for 2 days?
if you want our species to aspire to something greater than self-inflicted violence, we need to be rid of fascists, isolationists and xenophobes.
My friend, I'm terrribly sorry to let you down, but that statement must be one of the most logically self-inconsistent arguments I've ever read. What you are proposing is nothing short of genocide when applied to Iraq and the middle east! The entire Arab culture revolves around these ideas. Once upon a time they had amassed a vast, technologically rich empire based on the same sociologic and political standards that they still hold today. The "problem" is that their empire fell and the rest of the world changed around them while they've stagnated and allowed themselves to fall into an incredibly unstable state of affairs, which scares the shit out of us if they have nukes. The US is the biggest "threat" to Iraqi (and in general, Arab) pride, in that the importation of western culture and technology isn't meshing well with their old-way ideals. Naturally, to them, ours is the way of the devil, and must be kept out.
In truth, I don't believe they have nukes, or at least not powerful ones. I don't believe this is a war for oil. I don't believe this is a war purely to "establish democracy" in Iraq.
I do believe that the war is based on the "erradication of terrorism" through the removal of "rogue states", classified as I suppose any who hate us because we won't leave them alone culturally or on any other level. This reasoning has a fatal failure in the assumption that we can't leave them alone, and thus is not logically sound.
However, assuming that we can't leave them alone *and* shouldn't go to war is even more flawed, because only one can be true.
Either we can leave these people alone entirely, and leave them to die a horribly diseased and slow death on their own (or even better, but highly unlikely, for them to grow and prosper on their own), and completely cut them off from the rest of civilization, and thus avoid a war
Unfortunately, neither of these choices is right. *Both* are wrong for humanitarian reasons, but it's not like this is an issue that can be solved with diplomacy either. What we have here is a zero-sum game, and there is no way to win.
In conclusion, I don't support the war. I don't support non-war. I don't support diplomacy-only solutions. I don't support bombing-the-hell-out-of-em solutions. I don't support infiltrating their culture, but I don't support cutting them off. I don't support feeding their people (they live in a fucking desert!) or killing their people. I don't support replacing their government, but I don't support their government as it stands. I don't support any of these things because with the causes for them listed above, this can be extended ad infinitum and will never, ever produce a winning result.
Even worse than all that, besides being illogical, it would be utterly futile for me to take a position on this. The legislations and rules which have been brought about in the name of erradicating terrorism have served as the largest red flag for the erosion and eventual failure of "democracy" here in the US. I don't think I need to elaborate on what I mean here. This worries me more deeply than any war, and the similarities with *only the worst* bits of political statements made in Brazil, 1984, Brave New World, and Plato's Republic hit just a little to close for me.
I'm nowhere near the crackpot point of making aluminum hats, stockpiling assault rifles, or trying to declare myself a sovreign nation, but I am *very* deeply concerned and afraid for the future, and feel utterly helpless to the cause of it all.
-=[You cannot consistently judge this statement to be true.]=-
For the eigth gazillionth time, the US could not have established a client state on the USSR's southern border. Rebuilding Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion was not an option.
Please stop repeating lies, as hard as it may be to do.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
Funny how the US Marines sitting still in the desert have already seen more banned SCUD missiles than the inspectors found in six months of active searching!
Hey! Just give peace a ch... INCOMING!!
Viv
Gmail invites for ip
"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." G. W. Bush, 2003 ...
...
No, wait.
That was Adolf Hitler in 1933.
Darn.
You'd think that 70 years of evolution would be enough.
Then again, it only takes a quick look in a history book to understand that evolution does not apply to politicians
Ofcourse the same applies to us, the people who vote for them and support them. And the way we 'educate' our children. The future politicians and leaders.
Will it ever end ?
*sighs*
The people in Iraq have none of these freedoms. We are fighting to give them the same rights we have. Certainly civilians will die, but Saddam has murdered thousands of his own citizens.
Take a look at what's happening in Afghanistan right now. Where do you find freedom there? Where are the (human) rights you mentioned? Where is basic democracy? The country is in a most desolate state, the world has simply forgotten the country. The warlords previously ruling the country are gaining power again and it's just a matter of time until the old conditions - or worse - will be restored, because the US simply doesn't care any more.
There is certainly no doubt that Saddam Hussein is a tyrannic dictator who is willing to kill his own people. But there is also little doubt that the US government won't ignore the UN security council and international agreements and the law of nations just out of sheer humanity reasons. Take a look at the bigger picture. There are so many connections between Bush & friends and big oil companies, it's really hard to ignore. Iraq is the country with the second most oil resources in the middle east. Those resources can't be extracted right now because of the UN embargo empowered in 1991. On the other hand, known experts say that global oil resources will be depleted in the next 40 years. funny coincidence, isn't it?
Well, lets start with the dossier that Powell submitted to the U.N., it's a fake.
Remember that bit of evidence linking Iraq to nuclear weapons, oh yeah, it's a fake as well.
Those "great" tips our folks have been giving the inspection team? All that cool intel we have about trucks with mobile labs and sneaky shit going down, ummmm, it's garbage.
Shit, I could spend all day doing this. Our government has been busted time after time. They are liars. Period. However, now that we're at war, I support our folks over there fighting. Our president is a complete bullshit artist and his team of jackasses will, hopefully, go far far away after the next election. But I hope the people on the ground and in the air do what they have to do and get home safely.
The Al Samoud missiles have a range of 160km, I believe, but that is without warheads. Iraq argues that with the warheads, they fall within the limit, but agreed to destroy them anyway.
An interesting factoid on Channel 4 news tonight:
"The weapons used last night ( Thursday morning ) have so far cost £26million whilst the amount of money availble to the UN for work in Iraq after the war is £30million"
You ever think it could be the opposite when you said: "In Europe, we're all forced to understand that there are other cultures, and other ways of thinking."
Northern Ireland, the Turks and kurds, germany's problem with foreign employment, the jews, palenstine, and finally the muslims mixing it up with russians, chinese, indians, and americans. This is your so called social understanding? The list goes on and on forever with europe and the rest of the world not understanding but killing each other. Multiple holocausts and a world filled with poverty is the result.
Then take a look at America. A land of every person, a melting pot of every culture. A land of freedom of speech. Now maybe we don't get along (race riots) but we definitely don't ethinically cleanse people or ignore it when it happens. Which almost every country of europe is guilty for at one time. If Mexico or Canada starting wiping out one race America would lay down the law. But it happens in Europe's backyard all the time and you never see our world moral leaders like france setting up to the plate. Kosova, Rwanda, and Kuwait are all examples of France (the world's favorite country right now) of letting millions die without lifting up one gun. Whats wrong France? You can pick back up your guns you know.
"Bush has squandered this freely, used the excuses to repress his own people, and start down the road of a police state"
I don't feel part of a police state at all. Actually for me nothing has changed except a 30min delay at the airport. And yet another 9/11 hasn't happened even though we supposedly have created a 1,000 bin ladens since we have attacked afghanistan and iraq.
"They can do what they want when the want, anywhere they want, and the rest of the world doesn't exist in their calculations of the effects."
Well if Saddam can do whatever it wants then why can't the US? If a two bit tyrant can defy the UN forever then why should the USA listen to it. Is france going to start enforcing its policies because I think the US is sick of the UN. Having to look to China and Russia for moral authority makes me laugh so hard. What was the last count, 100 million dead due to bad communist governments last century. Thats our moral authority?