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Sun to Build Alternative Desktop ?
murthydn writes " At "Sun Tech Days 2003" Developer Conference in India ,Sun Microsystems Inc Chairman, President and CEO Scott McNealy exhorted Indian software programmers to build Sun's "desktop computer" as an alternative system to Microsoft software architecture .The complete article is here" 'Cuz if there is one thing that will save Sun, its a new desktop platform. *cough*
I'm honestly trying to think of what advantages Sun could bring to a desktop, and I can't think of any.
The "incompatible with the standard, but based on Unix and fun to use" dimension is covered by Apple. The "cheap and runs on your hardware, but is almost enterprise-ready" page has Linux written all over it.
It seems Sun would be better off writing software to kick MS's butt. A high quality office suite, or a set of network tools that make IE look like etch-a-sketch. It's not much, but it's something, and they need anything.
That they cannot compete with PC hardware in the desktop market (I assume from the article they're thinking of creating a new desktop machine). They've never been a good choice for anything but high-end hardware in terms of price/performance, so how will a new (almost certainly overpriced) workstation help matters? Who will buy it?!
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Basically, they want to build a linux desktop pc. Now here is where it might get interesting. Lets assume that they do the following:a ybe even future proof it by including PCI Express
-remove all legacy hardware:floppy,ps/2,...,IDE
-build in available techs: SATA,firewire,usb2,wi-fi,ethernet,sound(5.1+)
-M
They may have a very nice little desktop here. Make it a small form factor, and you might have a gold mine.
just my 2cents
later,
"Im drowning here, and you're describing the water!"
I've been waiting for one large Software vendor to bring out a Desktop OS that can compete with Windows. The most obvious choice would be to use Linux and Wine for out-of-the-box compatibility with Windows for apps and games. I know this has been done before (Lindows blah blah) but what if someone LARGE with MONEY like Sun or IBM does what Apple allready have; a Unix based Desktop OS for the masses. I know lot's of people would buy this when it runs on cheap hardware, is windows compatible and is backed by a large and respected company.
Ciryon
They're not reinventing anything, they're just packaging up commodities including Linux and GNOME in an enterprise-friendly way and providing technical support. No other large company is in the position to do that because they are all party to some sort of Faustian bargain with Microsoft that prevents them from providing any alternative.
I can understand why Sun would want to move into a very competitive market where margins are low and competition is fierce. When I think of office type PCs, which is the market they are going after I think of Dell, HP/Compaq and maybe IBM. I don't think of Sun and I can't see what they can bring.
How will a Sun compete on a price/performance point (even if running x86) with a Dell. Most offices will want M$ wether we like it or not. I really think this might just be a dying breath...
Rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
That wasnt all that Scott had to say.. Check-out this report
to hear more of Scott's views.
The gist: Scott doesn't want you downloading the source, he wants you to write it. And buy the product his company packages for you.
The clue is in the article:
He appears to be talking about some sort of thin client, which is certainly potentially different to what MS is doing. Whether it is actually any thinner than a PC running terminal-type software, and whether Sun can do any better than Oracle in making thin clients take off beyond a few specific niches remains to be seen.
Virtually serving coffee
What Sun could do, which would help everyone, is put some work into the GNUStep project. This project includes a Java API - a very nice one; Sun would encourage the creation of OpenStep Java applications in doing so, and could take the opportunity to create a rather good cross-Unix-platform desktop while they do it. I've used OpenStep Java under OS X, and it actually felt like a smoother development arena than the Objective C system you're "supposed" to use.
Of course, it does mean Sun would be promoting a second API for Java, and that might not be quite what they want to do. OTOH, the worst part of Java, in my experience, is the standard set of APIs, so perhaps that'd be a good thing for the language and concept as a whole.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
It makes sense. What Sun is trying to produce is a Linux/Java/Gnome/KDE based desktop that is a low-cost alternative to the Microsoft desktop. In other words the same thing that all the Linux entusiasts have been doing for years.
It may catch in India, as they are well oriented towards low-cost computing even if it is not very feature-rich. Remember the simputer
The government also seems to be Linux oriented even after some MS attempts to win the indian developers.
Unfortunately a lot of people here in the US pick careers based on how much money they can make, rather than having any aptitude for the given task.
When hiring for technology positions, managers need to hire people that are smarter than they are. Managing talented people is difficult, as is taking credit for there efforts.
Indian programmer are often very smart and well educated. Their education system isn't totally bolloxed up by the focus on sport. Instead they focus on science and math, playing cricket later. That's not to say everyone there is educated, but those that are should not be ignored because they need less money to do the job.
The general blaming H1B visas or offshore labour for the economy or job market is misplaced. It's a failure in the education system (at many levels), and consumers not being willing to pay the frieght on products built at home.
Throwing money at the US education system is not the solution either, it requires a whole change in mindset.
"There's no scarcity of spectrum any more than there's a scarcity of the color green.", David Reed
And realise Sun's primary goal should be making money, not spiting Bill Gates. If he doesn't, this vendetta of his will kill his company eventually.
It's a short article. SM says
"We want you to build the next generation software alternative to the Microsoft architecture"
It then goes on to say
He said the desktop with a smart card reader capability would have Mad Hatter, Linux, Gnome, Evolution and Java's star office products (emphasis mine)
It seems to be saying to me that the alternative to Windows is Linux, Gnome etc, not something new. Sounds like all those developers will be contributing to Linux and Gnome etc, adding software and capabilities that will make it compete with Windows.
Sounds good to me...
Now maybe I'm wrong. If so, could someone point out where in the 7 paragraphs (6 really sine one "paragraph" is a single line) it says that Sun will be making its "own" desktop environment and not use what they already support (Gnome)?
Or did some of the whiners not bother to read the article and just spout off because of a headline?
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Which is neat. However, if this is the marketing spiel...
> In todays corporate environment of people being rather mobile throughout the corporation, I'm surprised it hasn't caught on outside of Sun. Of course it precludes having a personalized workspace and a place to call "yours", but
See yesterday's thread on "How [not to] improve employee morale"
> perhaps combining the idea of "home base" no matter where you are along with a personalized workspace would be something I'd like to have.
Not trolling here - sincerely curious - why?
Humans are tribal animals, creatures of habit. The notion that a chunk of dirt (or carpet, or a computer) is "yours" is a very old ans powerful one.
On paper, it works - "my" computer is identical to everyone else's, so it doesn't matter which one I sit in front of.
In reality, it doesn't. The computer is "mine", because it's got my stickynotes on it (I don't use the things myself, but many users do), and it's on "my" desk. The desk is "mine" because it's got my papers, stuffed penguin, CD coaster, and double-sized coffee mug on it. It's in "my" cubicle because it's got my Dilbert page-a-day thingy on it, and "my" despair.com calendar on the wall. If I had to move into "someone else's" cubicle (the one with the calendar featuring cute little puppies), I'd freak.
Hoteling was a buzzword for a while, but how many companies can do it effectively without destroying morale?
Like any technical solution that requires a "paradigm shift" in a worker's attitude towards himself and his place in the company (and hoteling is definitely such a thing), unless you can get everyone to guzzle the Kool-Aid simultaneously, you're going to have a morale problem. No matter how good it sounds on paper.
"For the average user, a Mac is incompatible with the standard."
The standard what, exactly?
This box is a planned follow-on to a lot of work Sun has been doing. We all know that they work on Gnome and ship it with newer versions of Solaris. We all know they had a terminal product that used Java.
What I think is interesting about this is the use of Linux as the OS base.
Why would Sun choose Linux? Well, for starters, they don't have an OS whose performance profile is best on lower-end hardware. For another, Linux supports not only lots of hardware (which does help Sun, but not as much as if they were deploying on random hardware) but also has dizzying arrays of extra goodies available if they decide they need it.
Solaris has always been a conservative OS, and they're not a desktop system, so to add in all of the things that they would want for a desktop, Sun could spend years modifying Solaris. On the other hand, modifying Linux to suit their needs is trivial.
I've heard a few voices saying over the past few years that Sun is going to dump Solaris for Linux. IMHO, this is a far more credible data-point in that direction than the absorbtion of Cobalt. A new product is an ideal place to test the theory....
On the server side, Solaris could be dumped in favor of Linux with about 1-2 years work. Sun's engineers certainly are capable of making the required changes (mostly hardware support for Sun's high-end hardware and bringing Solaris' high-performance threading, multi-processor support and NFS to the Linux kernel, along with some userland stuff like porting tools and the pkg system, though they might prefer to dump that for apt or rpm or apt+rpm).
The real question is: how badly does Sun need to cut OS development costs to stay afloat? They're hurting. Everyone buys into the idea that on the high-end, Sun's hardware is sweet. It's just that the costs of maintaining an entire OS just for a high-end hardware niche don't match up. Linux could give Sun the chance to cut costs, improve Linux (and thus score PR points) and ship their hardware without having to employ anyone to maintain "ls".
I don't think this'd catch on, for the same reasons posted about about morale, and for the same reason subscription software is recieved very poorly. People like stuff to be theirs, or at least appear theirs, and a dumb terminal thats maintained by someone else certainly isn't that. It's ones thing to use one in a library, or as a workstation in your office (although I assume that most places these are used, most users are developers or engineers and are allowed a large degree of control over thier environment), but another entirely if it's YOUR computer in YOUR home.
I guess this proves the Dilbert adage that intelligence has very little practical application.
I guess that Sun is going to compete against the entire low margin commodity PC business?
The reason that people stick with MS on the desktop is that they have VB apps, Excel Spreadsheets, Access databases, etc. that they have built over the years that they depend on everyday. There is also that 10% of applications that are special niche apps that are available for the Windows platform only.
Sure you can use Open Office or other Office alternative but everybody knows that the files that everyone uses are too complicated to convert easily. It takes a lot of time and usually manual effort to convert each of these files and there always seems to be a function or two that you must have that does not exist in the alternative.
About 10% of software that users us are special purpose programs that are used in every company by a few people here and a few people there that would have to be converted to run on a new system. This is no small task either.
Remember all of the trouble that you had to go through for Y2K? You would have to do it all over again. The big difference is that every vendor offered a Y2K upgrade path. Few are going to provide a Linux path in addition to the Windows version that they already support.
Remember the days of DOS, Windows, OS/2? It sucked developing software because you had to pick a platform or choose to develop on multiple platforms. Either way you made less money and increased your costs. Most software vendors are happy that they only have to support 1 platform, Windows. Yes there are problems but it still reduces their costs dramatically having to support only one platform.
Even though you can provide a replacement for 90% of the functionality, providing a replacement for the remaining 10% is probably 90% of the work.
I just don't see Sun being able to sell enough of these units at low margin to make a lot of money off of them. As such, why bother? Can't they think of anything to spend their time on that will actually produce profits? That is after all what a company is supposed to do.
At least that's my take on it. SUN cannot afford to keep ignoring Linux. They sell hardware - yes they sell software too but they can make more money by repackaging a stable well known OS that is fairly close to the product they offer (at least from the users perspective). So since Solaris is going away, it makes no sense to target it for new projects. Although I expect enough Solaris diehards will pay for a version of this and that will justify some support. This is a mistake IMHO. They should move to Linux now and be done with it. For the high end Solaris might hang around but this project doesn't seem to be targeted at the high end.
Washington, DC: It's like Hollywood for ugly people.
My answer? Simple; most people are convinced apple is going to have to jump platforms(ibm ppc970), but instead of jumping to one platform, apple should jump to several, at once. I am speaking of the fat binaries Jobs used at NeXTSTEP. He supported 4 platforms at once, and so can apple. :)