Sun management must be asking themselves: where are we going to be five years from now? Not an independent company if they don't get their house in order and FAST. Personally I think they should have dropped Solaris 4 years ago, but that option may now be too late to persue. Whatever they do, they had better get MOVING.
If you are speaking just of those people who USE Linux vs Solaris you may have a point. But if you are talking about what people are willing to spend free time working ON to make better because they have an itch that needs scratching, then it is clear to me that the emotional aspect is a very important motivator.
The Linux community is about BOTH aspects of that process. Those that USE Linux because of its presumed advantages and those that CONTRIBUTE to it.
My advice to the Dept. is they need to come down hard and fast on this as contept of court, or M$ is gonna walk all over them.
The Bush DOJ? Ha ha ha...
Right.
Lets see you write a graphics intensive 3D package that needs to render _allot_ of polygons in real time in Java. Something like a 3D Data viewer in OpenGL. Everybody moving to the "safe" languages won't work.
While I agree with many of the changes, I think the dropping of multiple inheritance is probably a mistake. This comes in very handy when defining interfaces for object compartmentalization - as in Microsoft's COM.
My God, man, have you ever tried to move STL code between compilers???
Thanks. I've spent years in therapy trying to deal with that trauma and now with just one post I have the shaking hands and bile rising in my throat again. Even going from VCC5.0 to VCC6.0 with STL caused me to utter words that, I hope my mother never hears me using.
I doubt you realize how much engineering effort Solaris represents
Actually I have a fair idea. I've used both SunOS and Solaris extensively and can attest to the fact that SUN SW engineers know that they are doing, especially at the enterprise level.
But the point remains, SUN cannot continue to maintain Solaris _and_ offer systems that meat the price/performance of the Linux distros. At some point Linux will encroach on the enterprise level and then SUN will be a house divided.
It's IMHO better for them to bite the bullet now and make Linux more enterprise ready by truly contributing to it. Solaris is going away. It's not _if_ but _when_.
-DF
Actually it was. Larry McVoy tried to get SUN to open up their OS a _while_ ago, but instead Sun dropped the BSD version of their OS for the AT&T version (UnixWare). Allot of the history of this is available in "rebel code" - Glyn Moody (c) 2001, ISBN 0-7382-0333-5
It's just a matter of time before McNealy sees the inevitability of this. He was the final arbiter in the Death if SunOS and he will have to pull the plug on Solaris. The only reason he hasn't pulled it yet i he doesn't want to loose face. Frankly he should just stand up like a man admit he dropped the ball on SunOS kill Solaris and move on.
While not exactly a replacement of our DNA, Mitocondria is effectively an insertion in eukaryotic cells that in effect, help them win the "contest" of efficient ATP production. So insert that sonnet. The 18th has always helped me get sex.
Like most people here I had just been thinking of having multiple endpoints that talk out to the internet but I suppose if you have a network printer and other devices that talk only locally you might want a NAT. So the simple existence of a NAT shouldn't be a reason for them to terminate your service.
At least that's my take on it. SUN cannot afford to keep ignoring Linux. They sell hardware - yes they sell software too but they can make more money by repackaging a stable well known OS that is fairly close to the product they offer (at least from the users perspective). So since Solaris is going away, it makes no sense to target it for new projects. Although I expect enough Solaris diehards will pay for a version of this and that will justify some support. This is a mistake IMHO. They should move to Linux now and be done with it. For the high end Solaris might hang around but this project doesn't seem to be targeted at the high end.
Amen brother. Opposite universes shouldn't be in contact. You would hope not but it just can't be. Haven't found a marketing type I can spend an hour with without wanting to rip the head from.
While I agree with as jhunsake (81920) said: "You're a fucking moron."
I will attempt to show you _why_.
The previous poster wrote:
Here's the problem. If everyone -- and I mean *everyone* -- is violating some particular law, then that law needs to be revisited. Obviously that law isn't for the good of the people, if the people themselves are violating it.
To which you responded:
Not all laws exist for the good of the people. Some laws exist for a different good, but people must still obey them.
Well in the United states a few years ago an abominable thing called slavery existed by law in some states. That nation was ripped appart for years in an attempt to redress what we now universally discerned as an evil. Laws are made by people. People are capable of making mistakes. I postulate that is is your responsibility to disobey laws that you find morally objectionable. You might have to do jail time as a result of that action, but if everyone agrees with you then that effort will be well spent.
So your "but people must still obey them" attempts to take from people their right to disagree with the status-quo. Anyone who tries to use logical arguments to explain the taking of that right from individuals is indeed a moron.
but being a fair weather friend to Linux will only hurt them in the long run by turning people off
I agree. SUN has an image problem that they need to deal with right now.
Clearly Solaris' days are number in all but their most expensive enterprise systems, so they need to get their Linux based OS up and running soon. It will be of tremendous disservice to their sales force to have to badmouth Linux one month and tout it the next. Yes probably most of their customers won't remember the Linux bashing but if I were running the company I would want to have a more consistent message. So not getting involved in this SCO nonsense is probably best for them in the long run.
They might however believe that they are big enough to talk out of both sides of their mouth and get away with it, but based on the backlash I see toward Microsoft when they act in a hypocritical fashion, my take is; the bigger you are the less you should act like a whore
Slashdot Mirror
This is my "New e-mail" sound for the day. Thank you for the idea.
MP3 Link here:
http://www.cyberbee.com/yesteryear/oz_37.mp3
Sun management must be asking themselves: where are we going to be five years from now?
Not an independent company if they don't get their house in order and FAST.
Personally I think they should have dropped Solaris 4 years ago, but that option may now be too late to persue. Whatever they do, they had better get MOVING.
If you are speaking just of those people who USE Linux vs Solaris you
may have a point. But if you are talking about what people are
willing to spend free time working ON to make better because they
have an itch that needs scratching, then it is clear to me that
the emotional aspect is a very important motivator.
The Linux community is about BOTH aspects of that process. Those
that USE Linux because of its presumed advantages and those
that CONTRIBUTE to it.
Agreed. It's more than just OS capabilities. It is also an emotional thing. And I believe on that issue Linux has the mind-share.
My advice to the Dept. is they need to come down hard and fast on this as contept of court, or M$ is gonna walk all over them. ...
The Bush DOJ? Ha ha ha
Right.
4) 100%
Lets see you write a graphics intensive 3D package that needs to render
_allot_ of polygons in real time in Java. Something like a 3D Data viewer in
OpenGL. Everybody moving to the "safe" languages won't work.
This link was obtained in a straight forward way with Firefox 0.8.
Coding against a changing framework and API with disappearing/suddenly new features is a recipe for disaster unless you have a good inside track.
Even with a good inside track you can get burned if you don't have the bandwidth or your schedules are tight.
I am out of moderation points.
While I agree with many of the changes, I think the dropping of multiple inheritance is probably a mistake. This comes in very handy when defining interfaces for object compartmentalization - as in Microsoft's COM.
The pressure to run the gold ship aground and run off with the loot will always be there.
Nice quote. Can I borrow this?
My God, man, have you ever tried to move STL code between compilers???
Thanks. I've spent years in therapy trying to deal with that trauma and
now with just one post I have the shaking hands and bile rising in my throat
again. Even going from VCC5.0 to VCC6.0 with STL caused me to utter words that,
I hope my mother never hears me using.
SCOX
I hope that last downward trend keeps going.
Your URL had a flaw. It's fixed here:
Actually I have a fair idea. I've used both SunOS and Solaris extensively and can attest to the fact that SUN SW engineers know that they are doing, especially at the enterprise level.
But the point remains, SUN cannot continue to maintain Solaris _and_ offer systems that meat the price/performance of the Linux distros. At some point Linux will encroach on the enterprise level and then SUN will be a house divided.
It's IMHO better for them to bite the bullet now and make Linux more enterprise ready by truly contributing to it. Solaris is going away. It's not _if_ but _when_.
-DF
Actually it was. Larry McVoy tried to get SUN to open up their OS a _while_ ago, but instead Sun dropped the BSD version of their OS for the AT&T version (UnixWare). Allot of the history of this is available in "rebel code" - Glyn Moody
(c) 2001, ISBN 0-7382-0333-5
It's just a matter of time before McNealy sees the inevitability of this. He was the final arbiter in the Death if SunOS and he will have to pull the plug on Solaris.
The only reason he hasn't pulled it yet i he doesn't want to loose face. Frankly he should just stand up like a man admit he dropped the ball on SunOS kill Solaris and move on.
While not exactly a replacement of our DNA, Mitocondria is effectively an insertion in eukaryotic cells that in effect, help them win the "contest" of efficient ATP production. So insert that sonnet. The 18th has always helped
me get sex.
Like most people here I had just been thinking of having multiple endpoints that talk out to the internet but I suppose if you have a network printer and other devices that talk only locally you might want a NAT. So the simple existence of a NAT shouldn't be a reason for them to terminate your service.
Thanks! This post gave me one of those belly chuckles that lifted me from the sadness of a bad day. No mod points left though, alas.
At least that's my take on it. SUN cannot afford to keep ignoring Linux. They sell hardware - yes they sell software too but they can make more money by repackaging a stable well known OS that is fairly close to the product they offer (at least from the users perspective). So since Solaris is going away, it makes no sense to target it for new projects. Although I expect enough Solaris diehards will pay for a version of this and that will justify some support. This is a mistake IMHO. They should move to Linux now and be done with it. For the high end Solaris might hang around but this project doesn't seem to be targeted at the high end.
Amen brother. Opposite universes shouldn't be in contact.
You would hope not but it just can't be. Haven't found a marketing type I can spend an hour with without wanting to rip the head from.
While I agree with as jhunsake (81920) said: "You're a fucking moron."
I will attempt to show you _why_.
The previous poster wrote:
Here's the problem. If everyone -- and I mean *everyone* -- is violating some particular law, then that law needs to be revisited. Obviously that law isn't for the good of the people, if the people themselves are violating it.
To which you responded:
Not all laws exist for the good of the people. Some laws exist for a different good, but people must still obey them.
Well in the United states a few years ago an abominable thing called slavery existed by law in some states. That nation was ripped appart for years in an attempt to redress what we now universally discerned as an evil. Laws are made by people. People are capable of making mistakes.
I postulate that is is your responsibility to disobey laws that you find morally objectionable. You might have to do jail time as a result of that action, but if everyone agrees with you then that effort will be well spent.
So your "but people must still obey them" attempts to take from people their right to disagree with the status-quo. Anyone who tries to use logical arguments to explain the taking of that right from individuals is indeed a moron.
I agree. SUN has an image problem that they need to deal with right now.
Clearly Solaris' days are number in all but their most expensive enterprise systems, so they need to get their Linux based OS up and running soon.
It will be of tremendous disservice to their sales force to have to badmouth Linux one month and tout it the next. Yes probably most of their customers won't remember the Linux bashing but if I were running the company I would want to have a more consistent message. So not getting involved in this SCO nonsense is probably best for them in the long run.
They might however believe that they are big enough to talk out of both sides of their mouth and get away with it, but based on the backlash I see toward Microsoft when they act in a hypocritical fashion, my take is; the bigger you are the less you should act like a whore