Antibody Food Spices

Where's my Boosterspice? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-31 02:59 · Score: 0

I'll need it if I want to live long enough to travel to the Ringworld.

Welcome Back, Kotter! by mikedaisey · 2003-03-31 03:02 · Score: 3, Funny

I thought the previewing system was going to help prevent duplication?

In other words, this article was already posted at /.

Bloop by KDan · 2003-03-31 03:03 · Score: 2, Informative

Doope.

Daniel

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Carpe Diem

Antibodies in food by override11 · 2003-03-31 03:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, but wouldnt this constant exposure to these generally weaken the human body's ability to fight off disease itself? Also, this would help develop more resistant strains of bacteria. I think this is a bad thing, IMHO..

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No I didnt spell check this post...

Re:Antibodies in food by KDan · 2003-03-31 03:11 · Score: 4, Informative

No, it wouldn't. We're talking about antibodies, not antibiotics. Antibodies are molecules that bind to the receptors of bacteria/viruses and thus prevent them from binding to your cells and infecting them. That's all they do - basically turn harmful agents into harmless dust-like particles. They're not alive, they're not poison. They're pretty cool!

Daniel

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Carpe Diem
Re:Antibodies in food by Directrix1 · 2003-03-31 03:31 · Score: 1

Well, it would weaken the species' survivability, thats for sure. But so does every drug out on the market. Any artificial workaround to basic darwinian evolution will usurp the species' capacity for natural progression in that area. It allows weak people to survive. This is why I think we should make educational enforcement our highest priority. The evolution we have going for us now is the rapid progression of scientific study. And if we let people be ignorant, then we are dooming ourselves to a very bismal future. Of course, that is just my oppinion.

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Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
Re:Antibodies in food by PeDRoRist · 2003-03-31 04:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

Hmmm,
Wouldn't it be better if we'd let those harmful agents infect our cells and let our body learn how to produce matching antibodies by itself?
Like, you know, the natural way.

Of course, IANAD but it make sense, IMHO.

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Anything you do can get you slashdotted, including nothing.
Re:Antibodies in food by akiaki007 · 2003-03-31 08:50 · Score: 1

And, then somehow the entire human race was wiped out with the diseases smallpox, polio and then aids, because the doctors thought it best that humans develop the antibodies to the viral infections themselves.

Of course, there are cases where the human body simply can't produce the proper immunity to the virus (or bacteria), whereby we would get help by getting the proper innocculation or antibiotics, etc.

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"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
Re:Antibodies in food by Mizzie · 2003-03-31 12:51 · Score: 1

Well, they're not too cool when they attack important bodily tissues. Autoimmune diseases are not our friend.

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------- I'm not really a geek. I'm a geek groupie.
Re:Antibodies in food by swillden · 2003-04-01 02:42 · Score: 1

Wouldn't it be better if we'd let those harmful agents infect our cells and let our body learn how to produce matching antibodies by itself? Like, you know, the natural way.
Damned right! Just look how much healthier Europeans were back in the 14th century, with a nice dose of the Black Death to eliminate the weak. And look at the wonders that natural exposure to smallpox did for the native Americans!
Natural, shmatural; my kids are getting antibiotics, vaccines, antibodies (maybe, we'll see what the studies on widespread supplemental antibodies say), flouride, vitamin supplements and anything else that has a pretty good record of improving human health. They'll also wear glasses if they need them, get corrective surgery if needed, get orthodontics if needed, get blood transfusions if they're injured and lose blood -- modern medicine makes life *better*.
"Natural" != "Good", you know.
Don't believe me? You wouldn't mind if I made you a hemlock salad then, right?

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Re:Antibodies in food by aaribaud · 2003-04-02 02:43 · Score: 1

Wouldn't it be better if we'd let those harmful agents infect our cells and let our body learn how to produce matching antibodies by itself? Like, you know, the natural way.
Damned right! Just look how much healthier Europeans were back in the 14th century, with a nice dose of the Black Death to eliminate the weak. And look at the wonders that natural exposure to smallpox did for the native Americans!
But then, why not rather concentrate on vaccine, which does train the body in defending itself without risking anything?
my kids are getting antibiotics
Not only your kids, but the bacteria in them as well. Not all bacteria die from the contact, and the stronger ones will "learn" to survive antibiotics. There are already several little beasties out here which are as much antibiotics-resistant as their human bearer. Looks like bacteria are evolving from their 14th century to their 21st. :)
As for glasses, orthodontics and the like, I agree with you: that makes life better -- without putting it too much at risk some other way.
Albert.
Re:Antibodies in food by swillden · 2003-04-02 13:46 · Score: 1

But then, why not rather concentrate on vaccine, which does train the body in defending itself without risking anything?
Two points: First, vaccine isn't, in fact, risk free, although the risk is *very* acceptable (and the development of the newer acellular vaccines lowers the risk even further). Second, the poster I was responding to advocated the "natural" way, which vaccines are not.
Not only your kids, but the bacteria in them as well. Not all bacteria die from the contact, and the stronger ones will "learn" to survive antibiotics. There are already several little beasties out here which are as much antibiotics-resistant as their human bearer. Looks like bacteria are evolving from their 14th century to their 21st. :)
Yep, this is true, but so what? The worst case is that all of our antibiotics are ineffective, like penicillin is today, so we end up in precisely the same situation as if we didn't have them. Or had them and didn't use them. It's wise to use them carefully, to slow the spread of resistant strains. It's wise to continue researching and looking for new antibiotics. But it would be foolish not to use them.

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Re:Antibodies in food by John+Harrison · 2003-04-03 03:57 · Score: 1

The "so what" is that we use antibiotics way too much. Antibiotic soap for instance. The real problem comes from agriculture in which chickens and cows are given antibiotics indiscriminately because it is cheaper to cover your bases. It is a classic tragedy of the commons.
When you compare the worst case with the best case there is a big difference. In the best case anti-biotics are used appropriately and judiciously and resistant bacteria take a lot longer to develop.
It also might be worth considering whether these new "super-bacteria" that are resistant to everything leave us in a worse situation than we had prior to antibiotics. For example, they might be more contagious than the bacteria that would have otherwise evolved. I am not sure if there is any basis for my arguement or not, but it seems that a bacteria that is being attacked on mutiple fronts would be pressured into becoming more contagious than one that is not.

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Lasers Controlled Games!
Re:Antibodies in food by swillden · 2003-04-03 13:17 · Score: 1

The "so what" is that we use antibiotics way too much.
Sure, but if we use them at all, resistant strains will eventually develop. Using them carefully is better than using them indiscriminately, but not using them at all (the "natural way") is just plain stupid.
And don't forget that the subject of the article was antibodies, not antibiotics -- completely different things.
For example, they might be more contagious than the bacteria that would have otherwise evolved.
Could be. I haven't heard of any that have done this, though. It would seem like there should be some evidence.

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Re:Antibodies in food by John+Harrison · 2003-04-03 16:10 · Score: 1

And don't forget that the subject of the article was antibodies, not antibiotics -- completely different things.
Yeah, I know, just couldn't help but respond to your post which was on this topic.
Could be. I haven't heard of any that have done this, though. It would seem like there should be some evidence.
Neither have I. I would love to see some evidence one way or the other. I was just speculating on possible ways in which our use of antibiotics might leave us in a worse position than the "natural way". I certainly don't think that we are currently in a worse position, but I do think we could be more careful.

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Lasers Controlled Games!

Putting Antibodies in food is old news by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-31 03:05 · Score: 0

They have done it before.

Now all we need... by aziegler · 2003-03-31 03:26 · Score: 2, Funny

...is an antibody spice that prevents /. editors from posting duplicate stories.

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Ni bhionn an rath achx mar a mbionn an smacht (There is no Luck without Discipline)

Not neccessary to do this... by kfx · 2003-03-31 03:27 · Score: 3, Informative

While this looks like a great boon to people's immune systems, it's been known for some time that certain spices such as wild oregano oil (normal oregano is much milder) have very strong bacteria-fighting properties. Unfortunately, wild oregano is very rare, gorws only on mountains, and is illegal (!) to remove from those mountains... People really should look into getting ahold of some wild oregano and try growing it in bulk elsewhere or even try engineering it to strengthen its bacteria-fighting properties... now that would be useful.

Re:Not neccessary to do this... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-31 06:17 · Score: 0

The oreganos, including thyme, are quite common in the circum-mediterranean region. The bacteria fighting propoerties are common in plants that dominate scrub or in the western US chapparal habitats. They also tend to produce water-soluble agents that slow or prevent germination of the seeds of competing plants.

But what about our precious bodily fluids? by KieranElby · 2003-03-31 03:40 · Score: 5, Funny

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.
General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

Re:But what about our precious bodily fluids? by KDan · 2003-03-31 04:26 · Score: 1

Rofl! Dr Strangelove is a brilliant movie. :-)

Daniel

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Carpe Diem
Re:But what about our precious bodily fluids? by sckeener · 2003-03-31 05:45 · Score: 1

General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

You and your conspiracy theories are stagnant. Everyone knows it's a terrorist plot! Just ask Bush.

Thank goodness for Bush's moral convictions. We'll fight all the loonies at once and get this over with quick. 2 front, 3 front, NO a 7 front war on Terrorism!

We'll start with the tooth fairy.

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"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain

Sad by Bourbon+Man · 2003-03-31 03:49 · Score: 1, Offtopic

It's pretty sad when the friggin people who RUN slashdot don't READ slashdot. Hey Taco, change the icon on this one to a copying machine, because it's a duplicate post :-)

Re:Sad by knowledgepeacewi · 2003-03-31 06:58 · Score: 0, Troll

would you spend your day reading this crap? Don't be too harsh on them...there's only so much a sane person can take.
Re:Sad by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-31 08:32 · Score: 0

You know what's ironic? You're posting a message on Slashdot to the editors complaining about how they don't read Slashdot enough. Think about it.

well... by C21 · 2003-03-31 04:48 · Score: 0, Offtopic

the real irony here is the incredible slew of people redundantly crying out that the article is a duplicate...

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this is not a sig.

portmanteau double bonus!! by Hubert_Shrump · 2003-03-31 05:06 · Score: 1

bismal should become an official new word right now.

It's dismal - it's abysmal - it's bismal!

I'll use it every day. To describe my coworkers.

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Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!

Re:portmanteau double bonus!! by sporktoast · 2003-03-31 07:05 · Score: 1

Bismal makes me think of my cow orkers, but for a different reason.

--
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.

Again, the easy way out ... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-31 05:08 · Score: 0

... salmonella infections are up because of non-compliance with health standards. Rather than crack down on the wrong-doers which means $$ for inspectors and litigation, just lace the food with more drugs. That way the everyone's profits go up: the restaurants/processors with laxer health requirement overheads, the drug companies which get another market niche, and the doctors who have to treat more people as they become less able to cope naturally with food that isn't laced with antibodies. Wow. I chose the wrong profession.

you are correct by zogger · 2003-03-31 05:21 · Score: 1

you are correct. spices in general, not only for flavor, but for health reasons, are very beneficial.

Scientists-engineers, chemists, biologists, social scientists, economic scientists, are showing daily an amazing ability to keep proving some sets of human observations posted millenia ago in a book called "the bible". It's like -surprise-eating lots of fresh raw foods that haven't been dorked with by man in some fashion is basically good for you, and that it keeps you healthy. You can take it as "laws" passed on by God, or if an unbeliever,it's still quite practical, just look at it scientifically, is the modality more consistant than not, is it reproducable? It usually is, close enough for practicality purposes, follow the dietary laws you'll stay healthier. That will be another million buck research study grant, thankyou.

It works on governmental systems, economic systems, etc. Them old geezers might have talked funny and worn weird clothes, it didn't mean they couldn't look around and see a lot of "what just worked" and what didn't. You got to modify for today's times, but it's a good way to look at various problems initially, IMO.

Re:you are correct by kfx · 2003-03-31 06:17 · Score: 1

Exactly. If I'm not mistaken wild oregano is referred in the Bible as hissop, and was used in many purification rituals (and in other religions too probably). And now we discover that it does a great job of keeping you healthy by killing bacteria... go figure.

Same criticism applies as to "cold pasteurization" by geoswan · 2003-03-31 05:23 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Cold pasteurization" is the term some in the USA would like to use for bombarding food with a killing dose of radiation.

This irradiation prevents fresh food like Potatoes, from sprouting. The potato is still alive. This kills it.

This irradiation also kills microbes within the food, or on its surface, that could cause it to go bad.

One of the criticisms of irradiating food is that the knowledge that the food will eventually be irradiated will cause those responsible for maintaining cleanliness in the preparation of the food to relax their standards.

And I believe the same criticism could be applied here.

The article that drew this to my attention talked, in detail, about how modern slaughterhouses work. Apparently a batch of meat gets tainted by E.coli when an intestine gets nicked, and fecal matter leaks out. Yuck.

I'd prefer my food to be safe to eat even if some high tech wonder failed, or that step was skipped.

SNL skit by Gkeeper80 · 2003-03-31 05:56 · Score: 1

Does anyone else remember seeing the SNL skit about Hamburger Helper Anti-bacterial? I'm pretty sure Will Farrel is in it, so it's not too old. The skit shows a couple using rancid meat that's been sitting out for weeks. They mix in the ingredients and then squirt a big tube of some bright blue gunk into the pan. When they're eating the food, they comment about the "tingeling" feeling they get (that's how you know it's working).

Truth really is stranger then fiction

Side effects by phorm · 2003-03-31 06:22 · Score: 1

Ok... so antibodies aren't drugs... they're not really alive... but, what are possible reactions to it?

I mean... I have a lot of family members that have to make sure to order "no MSG" at Chinese restaurants. Next time maybe we'll have to say: "No MSG please... and um.... hold off on the antibodies as well, they gave me bloat and a really aweful case of gas last time"

Re:Side effects by sporktoast · 2003-03-31 07:28 · Score: 1

I was out with a friend at a Chinese restaurant and witnessed the following interaction between her and the waiter:
Friend: Could you please make sure not to use MSG in my food?
Waiter: Oh no! We don't use MSG *at all* in this restaurant.
Friend: Good, because I have a horrible reaction to it! If I have even a little, I'll get blinding migraine headaches and usually end up laying on the floor in convulsions. So, if you use it at all, I'd like to request that you give the pans and utensils and extra washing before you use them on my order.
Waiter: Hold on just a moment. (As he scurries off to the kitchen, then comes back several moments later.) Okay, I made sure that there won't be any MSG in your order.
While the waiter was gone, she told me that she'd lost count of the number of Chinese restaurants who assured her that they never use MSG, who later told her that she'd probably have to eat somewhere else when she got to the part about the convulsions and the extra washing.
I dunno, perhaps it's already in some of the packaged ingredients. Either that or "No MSG" has the same fluidity of meaning as "10 minutes" does in those cases.

--
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
Re:Side effects by phorm · 2003-03-31 11:30 · Score: 1

From speaking to both Chinese friends and those who work in the restaurants:
It is both in some packaged ingredients and also added as flavoring to the food. Asking for "no MSG" will reduce it... but you'll probably still get some from the packaged stuff.

That being said... something you find it even in packaged food at home. I've seen it sneak into my larder along with local food products at times.
Re:Side effects by La+Temperanza · 2003-03-31 12:13 · Score: 1

MSG tends to form spontaneously during many types of food processing. Gelatin, caseinate salts, textured or hydrolyzed protein, yeast products, and hydrolyzed gluten all contain MSG. Soy, malt, and whey products often do as well.

Not only that, it's sprayed on many crops as a growth enhancer.

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est modus in rebus
Re:Side effects by C21 · 2003-03-31 12:59 · Score: 1

putting antibodies in food to kill off bacteria promotes that bacteria to reproduce stronger and more resistant defense. It's basically a tolerance issue. You will have to keep upping the dosage of antibodies until even an extremely large dose would be ineffective.

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this is not a sig.

Re:Same criticism applies as to "cold pasteurizati by Anonymous Coward · 2003-03-31 06:57 · Score: 0

Apparently a batch of meat gets tainted by E.coli when an intestine gets nicked, and fecal matter leaks out. Yuck.

And a batch of lettuce gets tainted by the very same fecal matter applied as fertilizer.

They'd better not! by Saint+Mitchell · 2003-03-31 07:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

If they do this, I want a warning in HUGE neon letters warning me. I don't like antibiotics, or anything like them. I fight things on my own, who needs a weak immune system. When I get VERY sick I ask the doc "will this kill me if I don't take your wussy antibiotics". When he says no, then I stay runned down that extra week, so what. After years of practicing this, surprise, I don't get sick. Stuff that knocks everyone in the office down for a week takes me all of a day to get over. Antibiotics, ha, I spit on your grave. Food poisioning? I could eat raw swine if I felt so inclined.

Re:They'd better not! by barakn · 2003-03-31 07:28 · Score: 1

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, eh? That'll work until something kills you. Like trichinosis from raw swine.

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"I'm so moist I'm sticking to the leather." -Kermit the Frog on The Late Late Show
Re:They'd better not! by Oriumpor · 2003-03-31 07:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Since I'm sure most flames/trolls will be based upon facts being ignored, here is what antibody means.

From DICTIONARY.com

antibody ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-bd)
n. pl. antibodies

A Y-shaped protein on the surface of B cells that is secreted into the blood or lymph in response to an antigenic stimulus, such as a bacterium, virus, parasite, or transplanted organ, and that neutralizes the antigen by binding specifically to it; an immunoglobulin.

MUCH DIFFERENT than an Antibiotic for the little informed:

antibiotic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-b-tk, nt-)
n.
A substance, such as penicillin or streptomycin, produced by or derived from certain fungi, bacteria, and other organisms, that can destroy or inhibit the growth of other microorganisms. Antibiotics are widely used in the prevention and treatment of infectious diseases.

now... next time RTFA
Re:They'd better not! by Saint+Mitchell · 2003-03-31 08:55 · Score: 1

I did read the article.

antibiotics, or anything like them

That included antibodies in my mind, but we all think differently. Basically, If my body didn't make it, I don't want it. I'm really picky about what goes into me. I don't think we're getting full disclosure on what happens to all this processed food. Thus why I don't eat processed food in general. It's harder finding organic things and 3x as costly, not to mention time consuming preparing them. The years I'm gaining by taking care of myself I'm loosing in the hunt/preperation. So I guess it all evens out.

It's cool though, I understand why you'd think I was trolling.
Re:They'd better not! by freeweed · 2003-03-31 13:25 · Score: 1

Basically, If my body didn't make it, I don't want it.

So how do you eat food then, exactly?

--
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Re:They'd better not! by sl3xd · 2003-03-31 15:44 · Score: 1

I don't think we're getting full disclosure on what happens to all this processed food.

You've obviously never worked in a food processing plant, then. I put myself through college working for various food processing plants. It wouldn't even gross me out to lick the floor of those plants; they are kept that clean; because it's a food plant, all cleaners and sanitizers have to be non-toxic. Your keyboard probably has a more dangerous culture of bacteria and other harmful substances living on it.

I personally quite like rumors about some products (like potato chips) being loaded with preservatives (other than salt, that is...); but the label doesn't disclose what it is because . It's also true; the label does not disclose the primary preservative, for three reasons:

The primary preservative is not eaten, nor is it embedded into the packaging.

The primary preservative is (very) widely used in chemistry because of its inertness (not quite like a noble gas, but close).

You are already swimming in this preservative, no matter what place on Earth, or what time (at least ever since complex multicellular life walked on land).

The primary preservative of potato chips (and countless other 'sealed' packaging, like crackers, cereal, etc.) is nitrogen. This also helps explain why potato chips, etc. go stale, even if you do use a 'chip clip': Once you open them, that nice 99% nitrogen mix in the bag is replaced with about 20% oxygen, which immediately... oxidizes the food.

And that is a non-meat packing plant, which have much more relaxed standards. It is very difficult to convince somebody who works in the food industry that their equipment is somehow less clean, less safe, than your kitchen. In fact, they'll often point to volumes of evidence, studies, medical jornals, hospital logs, etc. -- All of which helps prove that the average food processing plant (in the USA, that is) is a cleaner place than the average middle-class kitchen. More people go to the hospital with food poisoning because they handled food improperly in their kitchen, than do because of improperly handled processed food.

Restraunts are a different matter, of course; the local health dept has more say than the FDA does. This makes sense, becaues most restraunts don't deliver out-of-state; the food doesn't originate in a kitchen in California, and is then eaten in Florida-- thus the FDA doesn't have any regulatory juristiction; however this is par for the course for food processing, and FDA inspections are a regular (and often unannounced) thing.

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-- Sometimes you have to turn the lights off in order to see.
Re:They'd better not! by knobmaker · 2003-04-02 05:43 · Score: 1

Maybe he's an autocannibal?
Still, I'd be worried that this would be a little like perpetual motion. I expect autocannibals just keep getting smaller, no matter how perfectly they recycle all their waste products, until they disappear.

New products? by trailerparkcassanova · 2003-03-31 07:16 · Score: 1

Jane's Crazy Mixed-Up Antibodies?

The Spice by skybird0 · 2003-03-31 07:20 · Score: 1

The spice must flow!

Oh yeah. by usotsuki · 2003-03-31 07:33 · Score: 1

Yeah, and next they want to add tracer nanochips to your food, so when you eat, they can Borg-ize you. Or after you've taken in these chips you'd say something against the government and they'd short-circuit your heart.

-uso.
1984!!!

--
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS

Allergic to Eggs? by queenb**ch · 2003-03-31 07:45 · Score: 1

Apparently these people have failed to consider that nearly 20% of the population of the world is allergic to egg yolks. It's the second most common food allergy, next to diary.

Queen B

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HDGary secures my bank :/

just don't cook it by ubiquitin · 2003-03-31 07:46 · Score: 1

Polymerized amino acids have an uncanny ability to lose their activity when they are heated. They also start denaturing well before boiling. Same with peptidoglycans. I don't know about you, but I like my food hot.

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http://tinyurl.com/4ny52

"Bismal" and "Oppinion" by Mark+Pitman · 2003-03-31 07:53 · Score: 1

Everybody makes spelling mistakes, but it is pretty funny considering the topic of your post!

Re:"Bismal" and "Oppinion" by Directrix1 · 2003-03-31 10:55 · Score: 1

I suppse it is. Hey I'm a computer programmer. I ain't learned no propah' english!

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Occam's razor is the blind faith in the natural selection of least resistance and in universal oversimplification. -- EF
Re:"Bismal" and "Oppinion" by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-03 08:16 · Score: 0

1st: learn to spell
2nd: is Directrix1 a feeble attempt at DirectX? Couldn't you have picked a software that sucked less?

Re:Same criticism applies as to "cold pasteurizati by geoswan · 2003-03-31 08:57 · Score: 1

And a batch of lettuce gets tainted by the very same fecal matter applied as fertilizer.

Food crops are not tainted by being fertilized by manure, if that manure has been properly composted first.

It is my understanding that composting is not a step a lazy organic farmer would want to skip. It is my understanding that composted manure is much better fertilizer than raw sewage.

Food safety solution: Glue the chicken rectums by Muhammar · 2003-03-31 12:36 · Score: 1

There is a company in California - Rancho Cucamonga (no, I am not making this up) which makes glues and adhesives.

They were among the first companies to develop cyanoacrylate superglue, but they got scooped, somehow. And since everybody else is making profit from their superglue now, they were thinking very hard how to get a new patented use for superglue. So they came up with a pretty good idea - and have it patented, too - that they would dip-glue the behind hole of slaughtered poultry, so that the "intenstinal content" containing salmonella would be prevented from leaking out. Food safety agencies were intriqued by this idea. Things were looking good and the small company invested a lot of many into testing.

My friend was working for them at the time and tried not to laugh, when humorless business people at the company were very seriously discussing sale projections and the techniques of automated chicken rectum glueing.

The word got out, and there vere hilarious columns in press, like this one:
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Union/1 669/Db ird.html

The government did not want the redicule and backed off, and the Rectite research was dropped.
Even now, the Rectite people at Pacer are upset about unfairness of the redicule.

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I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it

Re:Same criticism applies as to "cold pasteurizati by C21 · 2003-03-31 12:55 · Score: 1

composting removes acidic material that might otherwise destroy plant growth, not promote it. Composting is definitely a key step if you want to use sewage as fertilizer. Of course if you had some raw minerals laying around you wouldn't have to compost them. But most of us have to get those minerals from the shit of other animals, or ourselves.

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this is not a sig.

Helping people...HA by The+Zody · 2003-03-31 18:14 · Score: 1

[sarcasm] yeah...helping people...just wait till they start putting floride in the water!...er never mind [/sarcasm]

Re:Same criticism applies as to "cold pasteurizati by geoswan · 2003-04-01 09:32 · Score: 1

... composting removes acidic material that might otherwise destroy plant growth, not promote it. Composting is definitely a key step if you want to use sewage as fertilizer. Of course if you had some raw minerals laying around you wouldn't have to compost them. But most of us have to get those minerals from the shit of other animals, or ourselves.

IANA Organic Farmer, so this is not an exhaustive list, but my understanding is that composting increases the value of manure in several ways.
[1] Fibrous organic component of manure unbound, and can act to hold water, and tie soil together.
[2] Plants need to build themselves from basic building blocks. These aren't available in raw manure, as they are already built. Friendly microbes unbuild them during the process of composting making them accessible again.
[3] Done right composting kills many unfriendly microbes.

Just dump raw minerals? There is some value in dumping "raw minerals" on crop soil. But it lacks the aerating, fibrous, mixture of composted manure.

And it is important to dispose of manure wisely. Flushed away in our waterways it results in algal blooms, bad smells, water that is no longer suitable for drinking, reduces the value of fisheries, and so on. Buried and forgotten compostable waste does eventually rot away. But anaerobically. Anaerobic composting is a long term source of methane. Methane is something like 30 times as potent a greenhouse gas as CO2.

There is a lot of frozen bog, which will rot, anaerobically, and produce methane, locked up in the permafrost in Siberia and Arctic Canada -- which is now melting on us, due to global warming. In some places the permafrost is hundreds of metres thick. Locked up in the permafrost we will also find klathrate, a mixture of methane and water ice.

Yeah, I know this has crept off topic, but it is important, goldarnit.

long life is the gift of the spice! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-04-02 02:13 · Score: 0

long life is the gift of the spice!

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