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Beige Box Apple Clone?
steve.m writes "Finally it looks like I'll be able to get a cheap box to run MacOSX on, but not from Apple! John Fraser is (sort of) getting into the clone business 5 years after Apple shut down their 3 year long 'experiment' in licensing the hardware. Based on off the shelf apple components in a custom pizza box style case with no bolted on display, a barebones 'iBox' will be around 300 USD and require a processor, disk and memory (and the OS). Complete systems (again, without the OS) should start at around 650 USD."
My first power mac was a umax 600 - its great to see someone picking up the 'mac clone' business again. maybe it will help apple's overall marketshare... and w/ marketshare comes more users, w/ more users comes more software, w/ all of that comes reduced prices & improved performance, etc etc. All good stuff.
hopefully steve jobs won't try to shut him down out of fear that this will siphon sales away from 'proper' macs...
"I think he would be wise to talk to a patent attorney before he does anything else,"
Apple isn't exactly known for their kindness to "clone" makers..
"But I want to get Apple's full support. I want to make sure I'm on the up and up. I'm an Apple supporter. It's not something I want to clash with them about. I want to make sure what I'm doing is legal."
How is creating a low cost box that will cut into Apple's hardware sales (where they make the MAJORITY of their revenue) "supporting" Apple?
Sure sounds like "clashing" to me.
... a group of lawyers in Cupertino, CA. have gathered together and are finializing their cease and desist letter.
I guess in a couple of days we'll be reading about how this guy is no longer making these.
Good-Luck John Fraser, you're going to need it!
What is so bad about clones? I don't believe there is any money to be made from hardware sales. The profit margin is too small. Apple should follow in Microsoft's footsteps and make an OS only. They should allow the hardware manufacturers to worry about the chips and motherboards. Can you imagine if Apple released an version of their OS that could run on standard Intel/AMD chips? They would be competing head to head with Microsoft for market share. Apple's market share right now is so small there is no way it could shrink. I think if the cost of entry (expensive, slow proprietary Apple brand hardware) for switching to Apple's OS was cheap, many more people would be willing to give it a shot.
Apple's ROMs have always been the key reason that their machine hasn't been cloned.
I've always wondered why they don't use the same technique that the original BIOS cloners used to make a working IBM clone BIOS that was 100% legal.
I don't remember the specifics on the technique, but it involved two completely seperate groups of engineers within the same company who had strictly limited contact with eachother governing how one group reverse-engineered the BIOS, and how the other group created a new BIOS based solely on descriptions of how it operated, without having any specific copyright information that the first group had access to.
I remember being somewhat fascinated when I originally heard about it. Of course now, it's probably illegal due to the DMCA (which probably would've killed the PC revolution had it been on the books 20 years ago).
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
No. It really wouldn't be very sensible. The PPC is a nice chip, but it's not sufficiently better than x86 to justify using it to run Linux. Linux runs just fine on x86 hardware. If you need a really fast box, run a Power4, or a Sun SuperDuperSparcXII (or whatever), although you should probably run a 'real' UN*X on that kind of kit, rather than Linux. If you don't need that kind of power then stick with x86. I suspect most of your software will ship as binaries for x86. Sure, you can compile from source, but as anyone who's installed Gentoo will tell you, this may take a while...
The advantage of the iPizza is that it will run OS X, which doesn't run on x86. If OS X ran on x86, then this would be a bit of a silly thing to do, since none of the software out there for OS X runs on x86, and so it would have to be compiled, and if all you're doing is running Open Source apps that run under X11 on OS X, then you may as well just run FreeBSD.
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... to include a $120 copy of OS X, then why on earth would I buy it? I can get a brand new machine with far better reliability and reputation by spending $999.
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
Clones will kill that ability. And, make no mistake, it IS that ability that is keeping Apple in business after all these years. Those who don't understand this don't understand Apple's business.
Aha, but clones will also introduce the possibility of some of us running Linux on a PowerPC affordably. I don't want to pay Apple's prices, but I'd like to run a PPC. So, this dude would get my money, and Apple would get their cut, and on top of it all, I wouldn't even be running OS X! Imagine that! Now, as long as Apple doesn't force the vendors of this stuff to sell OS X preinstalled and nothing else, it'll be a great thing. Apple will actually be able to get a foothold in the LInux market without having to actually make Linux themselves. :)
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On December 19, 2002, Tech TV's The Screen Savers aired an episode in which Kevin Rose built a G4 in an ATX case. Most of the parts came from Mac Resq and others. It's an interesting article for anyone who wishes to tackle the project by themselves.
The segment was inspired by an aricle on MacOpz Web Site. I urge all to check it out.
Though this might end up costing a little more, there are benefits: You get to choose your own case (which must be slightly modified), and get the pleasure of building a computer that normally isn't built by anyone except Apple and the pizza box guy.
Mr. Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action.
It wasn't done with Apple because it would cost too much: Apple's BIOS was much larger than IBM's was. It contained basic code for keyboard, mouse, and windowing systems (including code to draw basic windows and icons, which were copyrighted). An original Mac with no disk could still boot to a graphical error mesage and working cursor, and there was cost/speed savings for Apple as well.
Newer Macs don't have as extensive a BIOS (and I'm not sure what is in it), but Apple now protects itself in other ways.
'Sensible' is a curse word.
Tell that to the owners of an XBox.
I read some people here saying that they'll "finally be able to run Linux on PPC in an affordable way". Well, I wonder if there are no other cheaper alternatives.
I, for one, run basically free software only, and hate x86. I'd love to run Linux on a better-thought-out architecture, but alternatives are usually _so_ much more expensive.
If this guy can make a PPC machine costing US$ 650,00 using Apple motherboards (which I assume are more expensive than no-name PPC motherboards), does that mean I could put together a generic PPC machine for less? Is there some company out there that does that? Are there any other alternatives, ARM perhaps?
So many questions...
The filesystem is the package manager
The only issue I see is apple requiring "Cores" on all repair parts like auto parts-to keep them in the family. That said, IBM tried that with AS400 parts but the courts have ruled that used/spare parts can't be completely controlled. [anti-competitive and all] It's still really hard to find IBM parts because they tie all upgrade sales to "cores" of your previous equipment for a big discount. But if you buy your system outright they can't stop you from reselling it--just try to make it worth your while not too.
If he sold just the case and bits with some "instructions" to build a system he wouldn't get in trouble and dodge the bullet. That would leave apple cracking down on their own channel which I can't see them doing--and getting some cheap marketing out of the deal too. He does need to ditch the name or change the product--way too close to an apple product names. perhaps ibox-computer case would fly though as an after market apple-related part. The courts haven't given them ieverthing yet!
Considering that anything that smells of a Mac clone will surely be squashed by Apple lawyers, why doesn't he just sell the case? As is stated on the site: " A Big thank you to Mick e (dealchatter) for him to allow us to use his iBox design. His design is the reason so many people are interested." Since it's going to be barebone anyway, the target market is already capable of finding their own parts, and buying a Gigabit motherboard is not terribly difficult. I doubt Apple would be able to stop him from selling a piece of plastic and power supply to hobbyists...