Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Linux Audio Development

Posted by Hemos on from the building-it-all-out dept.

JulesVD writes "There is an article from Linux Journal about the latest plans for Linux audio functionality from the first developer's conference in Germany. Developers from more than a dozen countries attended this successful conference, representing organizations such as SuSE, Linux Audio Systems, Stanford University, IRCAM and Centro Tempo Reale. Topic discussions included in-depth presentations of the rapidly evolving Linux sound system, a look at the details of programming for professional audio standards and a survey of recent applications and audio-centric Linux distributions." Mmm...interesting reading (blantant plug for cool program), but I think the most important question is will it make Scrubby happy?

22 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. Sound Support by rf0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ALSA is actually quite nice. It works on more cards than OSS, allows duplex on some cards and is still backwards compatible with the OSS API. However I still feel that audio support on Linux could be improved. For example in my latop Intel soundcard which seems to only play at 44 Khz if using xmms. Now I know this is a software problem but it would be nice if it worked out the box.

    Not a major issue but annoying

    Rus

    --
    Cheap UK and US VPS
    1. Re:Sound Support by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ALSA is actually quite nice. It works on more cards than OSS, allows duplex on some cards and is still backwards compatible with the OSS API.

      Agreed, ALSA *is* nice.

      ALSA's biggest drawback is the project policy that software mixing should be done in userspace (presumably by a separate project). They feel that a user should use hardware mixing *or* software mixing provided by a sound server like arts, esd, JACK, etc. This produces less kernelspace code, which is good, but means that Linux cannot handle using hardware mixing until all channels are exhausted, then fall back to software mixing for additional channels.

      Esd and arts do not provide solid enough latency and sync to be the sound server in this scenario. JACK may be enough -- haven't used it -- but it's not in common use outside of the audio content creation software area.

      OSS/Free has a similar approach. Hardware or software sound mixing, no hybrid approach.

      A mixer capable of supplying such mixing would need to intercept all ALSA calls and use realtime scheduling. Kinda nasty. It always seemed that adding mixing and resampling code to ALSA would be easier.

      It *is* a bit of a thorny problem, though.

      --
      May we never see th
    2. Re:Sound Support by paulbd · · Score: 4, Informative

      LSA's biggest drawback is the project policy that software mixing should be done in userspace (presumably by a separate project)

      This just is not true. ALSA now has the dmix plugin that handles software mixing in user space all by itself. Its very, very efficient and has no impact on latency (though it can't offer JACK-style sample-synchronous execution). dmix makes regular software mixing "servers" irrelevant, and JACK fills the remaining needs.

  2. A pro audio platform would be cool... by japhar81 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Something like Logic or Cubase on Linux would absolutely kick ass. My powerbook beats the hell out of windows for music apps, but an open-sourced suite would be worth it to switch. You have no idea how often I wind up thinking, geez, if only logic had an extra slider here to control this or that or the other...

    1. Re:A pro audio platform would be cool... by fruey · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's called Ardour, look for it at Sourceforge.

      -Simon

      --
      Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
    2. Re:A pro audio platform would be cool... by mickwd · · Score: 3, Informative

      A guy called Austin Acton has put together the Mandrake Audio Workstation HowTo for Mandrake 9.1.

      It uses packages contributed to Mandrake 9.1 to build an audio workstation (including a low-latency "multimedia" kernel) - using URPMI to simplify package dependency issues.

      Quote from the HowTo: "You can setup a professional quality audio workstation in an afternoon or less, with Mandrake Linux. No compiling. No text editing. No dependencies. It's this easy.".

      I don't know enough about computer audio to comment further, but you might be interested in checking it out.

    3. Re:A pro audio platform would be cool... by blinder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ardour is nice... on paper. Compiling it is a whole other story.

      I'm affraid its just a bit too immature right now to be considered a serious contender to ProTools because only the geek-elite can really get this thing compiled (which I sometimes consider myself at different times of the day) but I have yet to get this thing compiled.

      If they would just release a stable build or just a stable distribution that could be built (ala configure/make/make install) then it it would be a serious contender.

      I see from Ardour's mailing list that folks do have it up and working... ugh... guess I'll try again tonight to get it built :)

      --
      sad robot making broken music
  3. the drivers need to work. period. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anything less than complete parity with Windows drivers FEATURE FOR FEATURE is unacceptable. Linux is STILL not there.

    I installed Windows XP after 9 years of running Linux (various distros) because I was tired of only being able to use half the features of my hardware.

    1. Re:the drivers need to work. period. by QuackQuack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I get around this problem by buying only well supported hardware.

      But what's really annoying is when features aren't supported on Linux for non-technical reasons. For example, Matrox has written Linux drivers for their graphics cards, but the Linux drivers don't support TV-out. Why?

      It's apparently because Linux doesn't have Macrovision support, and I guess Matrox doesn't want to be sued by the MPAA for releasing drivers that "enable piracy". So Linux users can't have a feature that has many legitimate uses, just because someone might tape a DVD onto a VHS tape with it.

      --
      By reading this sig, you agree to the terms of my sig license.
    2. Re:the drivers need to work. period. by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Informative

      Matrox has written Linux drivers for their graphics cards, but the Linux drivers don't support TV-out. Why?

      It's apparently because Linux doesn't have Macrovision support, and I guess Matrox doesn't want to be sued by the MPAA for releasing drivers that "enable piracy". So Linux users can't have a feature that has many legitimate uses, just because someone might tape a DVD onto a VHS tape with it.


      That's a good conspiracy theory. Another theory is that linux cant dynamically add/remove display devices in userland at run time the way windows can.

      You'd either have TV out enabled all the time, or CRT all the time, or both, but you wouldnt be able to switch at will.

      It could also be because of the MODELINE nonsense in your xf89config. TV out has some pretty specific frequency requirements, and perhaps the ability to tweak those while enabled would damage the card, and then void the warranty - but if you voided the warranty with a matrox driver, you dont void the warranty, so they have to continually replace cards for all the 'tweakers' out there.

      Or it could be that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth. Want all the features of the vid card to work? Fire up emacs and get a-crackin'.

      BTW, IIRC macrovision is a hardware feature, not a software one. There is no 'linux support' to be written, save flipping it on via a hardware register. They're only required that it be present, it can be disabled as easily under windows (a registry tweak for most cards) as it could be under linux.
      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  4. Drivers? by Drathus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't the largest issue with any support on Linux still the fact that very few companies are willing to put in the time to create Linux drivers let alone have have the decency to release the information on the chipsets to the public to allow 3rd party drivers to be created?

    Maybe what should be looked into is the creation of a vested interest just to deal with sound card companies and try and negotiate accessability to chipset information to create drivers for their cards for other OSes than they're willing to develop for in-house.

    1. Re:Drivers? by Adnans · · Score: 4, Informative

      Contrast with the monolithic kernel that linux has. Creative would need to participate and coordinate with linus et al from start to finish.

      Erh no! Most, if not all drivers in ALSA were written without any interaction from the kernel folks. ALSA is now integrated in the 2.5.x kernel, but that doesn't mean driver developers will have to deal with Linus et al. They just deal with Jaroslav, the ALSA maintainer. All mainstream cards are already supported by ALSA. If a company doesn't want to provide docs it can always choose to write and distribute their driver on their own.

      In short, the monolithic kernel is an albatross around linux' neck when it comes to wanting hardware support from the manufacturers.

      Nonsense.

      -adnans

      --
      "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
    2. Re:Drivers? by Nosher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Creative are actually pretty good about supporting their soundcards under Linux (http://opensource.creative.com/) with their EMU10K1 project. I have an Audigy running in Mandrake 9.0 and it sounds pretty good (not much difference to an Audigy Platinum EX I've got running in a Windoze PC - both run through a decent amp and good speakers). All it takes is a bit of compilation (of the driver) and a change to /etc/modules.conf. I even use an Audigy in a custom "suitcase PC" running Mandrake to do the occasional disco (line up a few tracks and head for the bar :-). It has been frustrating though that it's taken *sooo* long just to get to this point though...

      --
      It's too late for me to die young
    3. Re:Drivers? by Adnans · · Score: 4, Informative

      And ALSA is the way every card will work from now on? Or will it change to something else with kernel 2.6?

      The ALSA API in kernel 2.5.x will be the same one in kernel 2.6.

      Vendors like standards and specifications. They dont like researchers and academics and expiriments.

      Vendors look at the bottom line. If there's enough incentive they will write against any API (*cough* Windows *cough* :-).

      -adnans

      --
      "In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
  5. After dealing with Linux sound for 3 years..... by mao+che+minh · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Topic discussions included in-depth presentations of the rapidly evolving Linux sound system..."

    I hope so. After working with Linux for three years I have come to expect little in terms of audio. Hell, I was taken completely by suprise when the Redhat 8.0 install actually had a "play sample sound" button. It was like first time I witnessed scaling effects on the SNES. Inspiring.

  6. Yet a long way to reach DirectX.... by WARM3CH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet there is a long way to have an API with DirectSound/DirectSound3D/DirectMusic/DLS features in Linux. (I don't know about EAX support in Linux, anyone can help?) Sound is one of the major obstacles for the games to come to Linux....

  7. Mixing... by ElGuapoGolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I may be wrong, but whatever. It seems to me that Linux *really* needs a decent stream mixer.

    I hate not being able to play more than 2 sounds at once (and that's only because that's supported in hardware by my card, my old card could only play 1). Neither esd (does anyone use this anymore) or artsd cut it. They're too laggy to be usable for games, and in order to increase their response time, you have to increase their priority, thus slowing everything else down.

    Say what you want about Windows, but at least it gets this right.

    So, anyone know a soundcard that will let me play mutiple streams WITHOUT having to use esd/artsd, and is decently well supported under Linux? Anyone? BTW, can we keep it under $100 (USD) if possible?

  8. Cool by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The most amazing thing about the Linux audio scene is how well organised it's been since day one. All the key players work together, and are putting together a seriously sweet pro audio architecture. The same people who write ALSA collaborate on Jack, LADSPA (which looks like an open alternative to VST plugins), write sample editors - the works.

    It's too bad that the desktop audio scene is such a shambles by comparison - in 2003 there is still no standard way of mixing and resampling (sound servers). What I expect will happen at this point is simply that once 2.6 is rolled out, distros will simply start shipping with the ALSA dmix plugin which mixes at the hardware level by writing into a sound cards DMA buffer (iirc), making most desktop uses of sound servers obsolete (though they can still be useful for network transparent audio and jack style synchro).

    Oh, and GStreamer kicks ass :) It's messy right now, but I think Linux multimedia could become really great.

  9. I have to say... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've had a better audio experience with Linux than I ever did with windows.

    Case in point: I recently was bequeathed a SB Audigy card (Platinum...Oooooooo.) with no driver disk.

    So whay you say! I can download the driver no problem, you say!

    NAY! I say, they have restricted the downloads to driver "upgrades" only. If you don't have the original, then you get NOTHING! I had to go rip off a damn copy of the original driver CD to use a physical piece of hardware. Severely annoying.

    This is in windows. In LINUX, I found the driver and it worked perfectly. Took like 3 minutes. It was GREAT! No pops or crackles, just pure wonderful SOUND!

    My Name is SatanicPuppy, and I'm a switcher.

    =P

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
  10. no VST on Linux by onash · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I can't switch to Linux on my desktop machine because I would have to stop making music. I haven't found any sequencers that support VST instruments or even a VST host for Linux yet, so this talk that musicians can easily switch to Linux doesn't really make sense to me.. unless all those who make music on Linux have tons of hardware synths and don't need soft synths like poor me :P

    If anyone knows about any open source Sequencer with planned VST support, let me know, I would love to help. I searched Sourceforge for Linux VST.. and found nothing.

  11. Re:I have a single question by Consul · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A popular program, under active development, is Rosegarden4.

    I haven't used it much, but I was able to get it to run stably, and talk to my soundcard just fine. Many people on the Linux Audio Users mailing list like it a lot.

    --

    -----

    "You spilled my egg... I needed that egg."

  12. Creative Open Sources their drivers by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not only do they create drivers for their chips (SBLive! and Audigy series, OpenAL), they release the code as Open Source. The driver sin the Linux kernel came from Creative, not some 3rd party. Another reason to support Creative (as if having the best stuff wasn't enough of a reason)

    http://opensource.creative.com