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Linux SMP Round-Up
Dual Minds writes "LinuxHardware.org is at it again and this time they cover three of the finest boards on the market. This review covers three dual processor Xeon boards and they are the only site that ever does Linux reviews (at least on a regular basis). Here's a peak: "First thing is that all E7505-based boards are basically the same on the surface due to the basic features of the chipset. They all have dual processor support, support for dual channel DDR, and support for PCI-X up to 133MHz (to name a few). Once a manufacturer gets their hands on the board though, features can be added or it can simply be left as is." Very in depth and some sweet hardware."
I'll go read the article now.
Old people fall. Young people spring. Rich people summer and winter.
Since these types of motherboards are aimed at people rolling their own servers, as opposed to buying a prebuilt one.
How many people actually build a server from the ground up, and why, other than price, is it advantageous to do so, instead of buying a complete box? Price shaving shouldn't be a huge concern for a server, since so many other factors figure in more.
Beowulf Cluster
If your throwing enough money around to afford dual Xeon's then hyperthreading support be included.
More information about it is here and you can have virtual dual cpu's per processor. In theory you can have the performance of 4 cpu's with a dual processor setup.
For databases and ERP this could be a very nice and cheaper alternative to expensive IBM and Sun boxes.
My question is does Linux currently support hyperthreading? If not then it may be wise to put off the purchase or buy dual Athlon MP's which are alot cheaper and offer similiar benefits.
http://saveie6.com/
I would like to see a comparison of Linux 2.4, Linux 2.5, FreeBSD 4.8, and FreeBSD 5.0 on the same hardware. FreeBSD fanatics like to toot their horns, but where are the benchmark results?
btw, LinuxHardware.org is nearly slashdotted, so their Linux server knowledge must not be so great after all..
cpeterso
I love linuxhardware.org, they talk about the 3 main things I love, Linux, SMP and hardware!
keep it coming guys!
keanmarine.com
An actual comment on the story...
When reading through the review, I noticed that they only list standard benchmarks, and then a kernal compile benchmark. They never list the actual distribution of Linux used for testing the system. In my experience, the actual performance of a system is dependant on that. I know I had a system that just dragged running Mandrake, but loved Debian to no end. I'm not sure if it's just the kernal base of the system, but most of the actual distributions have some sort of performance optimization (I think) for the overall system performance. I mean, kernal complilation time is great, but what I'm more curious about is the day-to-day operation.
I guess I've just read too many reviews over the years that focused on benchmark numbers and didn't give any information about performance under everyday use. If this is something geared for Linux, I'd be more curious about numbers like Networking performance, data-access numbers and things like that.
My other curious question is how accurately does UT2k3 and Quake 3 show the power of a Dual Processor Xeon system? Quake 3 supports MP systems, but it has never been shown to make much difference except on large server environments. They give us video-benchmarks, and for Quake in particular, there's a limit that was hit long before these processors and chipsets that was somewhere next to overkill.
I guess I'm just being nit-picky, but I think a Linux Review for a system should concentrate on strengths, and not benchmarks that would be similar on a Windows system made to run games.
Before this, someone pointed me to Dell's Finacial Services' page of good deals (and no OS tax!) on lease-return laptops. After that, a friend of mine called to tell me that a Ford dealership nearby is selling a 2002 convertible Mustang GT for below invoice with 0% financing over 4 years. And don't get me started on what I could do with a Fry's or a Best Buy right now... Oh, the agony of being such a consumer whore...
It'll be a kick-ass ring, though. I highly recommend browsing this thread before making decisions on engagement rings -- good info even if, like me, you want to go with a diamond regardless of the fact that you're getting ripped off.
(posting anonymously to avoid my girlfriend seeing this post a la Murphy's Law).
The Americas Cup is held by Switzerland.
Me guess that you are a yank.
Times are strange, all right...when did Sweden become landlocked?
Also, to be the "best rapper" is like winning the Special Olympics.
a single cpu systesm at 3gigs, or smp system or an smp with 2 1.6 gig chips
this assumes same chip fammily.
i normmmlay run X, kde 3,1, apache(small home www site + php+ mysql), and some times i run a lil tux racer.
If you need hardware like this, then you need Support. That's what attracts people to Sun (and now Dell, for instance). And if you need support, you'll take whatever board your System Integrator uses in their boxes.
To wit:
If you need this, you'll buy it from someone.
If you buy it from someone, you have no choice of HW.
Thus, this review is useless.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I have a dual P4 machine at work that I'm going to be installing Linux on soon to use as a mail server. IIRC, it's an Intel-branded board, though. But the performance I see here looks nice.
:-D
As for myself, I have a dual proc machine, but it isn't good for much (SS10).
And I wonder how Linux would run on one of these. Anyone? Anyone?
'Most responsive user experience'? Switch to SCSI. The major bottleneck in any PC is the crappy disk access. I get better app start times on my 400Mhz U2W SCSI system (80MB/sec max) than my Athlon 1400 with ATA-133. The SCSI theoretical speed limit might be lower (in the example above), but real-world performance favors SCSI.
/usr partitions. Put /home on your IDE drive. Get the best of both worlds. When you recover from the investment you can move the whole SCSI deal to the next machine (and it'll STILL kick the next generation PCs ass!).
Go get an Adaptec 29160 and a 36GB 10K Cheetah drive for your / and
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
I'm definately still suffering from the flu. I just re-read that and it's got way more than my average number of mistakes.
Here's a peak
Here's another one.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Linux does support hyperthreading. 2.4.20 recognizes four processors on my dual Xeon servers, without any tweaks. I think it's pretty nice -- I'd say there's between a 5% and 25% pickup in performance, depending on what you're using it for (generic vs. optimized integer code).
According to a geek.com article, Linux was actually the first operating system to officially support hyperthreading, and that was in late 2001.
for a new computer. I am debating whether to shell out the extra cash for a dual CPU system. How much will 2 CPUs extend the usable life of my computer? Any comments?
sig
hmm.. They didn't do an intel board with that chipset, would have been interesting, they're really good boards
If you are going to rip off Chris Rock, at least get it right.
Spencer Ogden
Support is an argument for and against buying prebuilt systems ...
.. there are other issues than support, of course, but this is just my two cents. :)
If you're colocating a server, having a pre-built machine with a tight support contract is pretty crucial. For example, Dell offers a 24/7, 2 hour on-site support guarantee for servers almost anywhere in the continental United States. That's pretty darned handy if your servers are spread around.
On the other hand, if you're able to service the machine yourself within a reasonable time frame, I think it's always better to build your own servers because you have:
- Intimate knowledge of every hardware component in the box. You researched every piece, right? Lots of manufacturers put in weird devices and what-not, and you can never really be sure of what's under the hood when you buy from someone else.
- Spare components on hand. If you're spending the cash on some nice servers, having an extra hard drive, DIMMs, and a network card on hand is pretty invaluable.
- Better upgrade path. Feel free to swap out a motherboard, processor, or SCSI system. No worries about proprietary motherboard or case standards.
A quick comment on the toss-away statement in the article that 2.4.20 supports 7505 based systems out of the box.
Be Careful(TM).
The AGP3 stuff requires a patch to stock Marcello/Linus kernels for the 7505 chipset.
I had trouble getting an AGP4x card to work on a Supermicro X5DAL-G board (baby brother to the reviewed X5DA8 board; but at ATX size instead of EATX and able to support unregistered memory) without applying this patch. Once patched, it works fine.
I'm not sure if 7505 support has made it into Marcello's 2.4.21preX series yet, but 7505 support does seem to be in 2.5.6x series (which I'm having trouble getting to boot for unknown reasons).
YMMV.
The PCI-X controller used in almost all of the E750x workstation/server boards is really expensive and adds to the complexity of the board layout and design. It seems that Tyan decided to forgo that chip in order to keep the cost of the board down while making up for it by adding Serial ATA (but no FireWire like it's larger Thunder i7505 brother).
One board that I would like to have seen reviewed is the Supermicro X5DAL (with or without Serial ATA RAID) as it does include PCI-X slots, but it is also a standard ATX-sized motherboard. It only has four memory slots, so that may have changed some of the memory timings and possibly have improved some of the scores by a small amount.
One a side note, FreeBSD 4.8-RELEASE users will also benefit from the newly added support for HyperThreading found in all P4-based Xeons and the 3.06GHz P4. More info can be had here. I'm not sure if that feature is also available in 5.0-CURRENT (I would think it would be MFC).
...and are probably the best price/performance on the market at the moment. You really pay a serious premium for intel hardware. Just because it costs >3x as much doesnt mean its >3x better...
I have two Tyan S2460's with dual 1200mhz Thunderbirds in each, rock solid in W2K and Linux, and excellent performers. They were also very cheap to build.
Maybe someone should do a review of budget Linux SMP setups...
Come on -- I too spent +$5K on the engagement ring a little over a year ago. Now you're seeing all you could have gotten with the same amount?
Would Dell, Ford, or Fry's do you proper? Do they swallow?
I just finished my taxes today. First time in a decade and I owe and owe big time. $5,704 to be exact -- talk about getting fucked (!)
What is a barbarion? Is it like a barbarian, only spelled wrong?.
Here is the summary of a dual Xeon system I am thinking about building. It has links to more information about each part, and where cheapest to buy them. I have done a lot of research into this since last weekend, and am still not sure if I am going to do it or not.
For $1300, you too can build a kick ass system like this too. Follow the links.
I'm running Gentoo Linux 1.4rc1. Everything is built from scratch with optimizations so it's as fast as can be on both machines. I'm running kernel 2.4.20 on both machines.
I should note that the SCSI performance boost is still huge in Windows, but less profound than in Linux due to the way Windows aligns frequently used files on the disk.
As for your performance issues, try updating the drivers for your chipset (Intel INF and Intel Application Accelerator / VIA Hyperion 4-in-1) to make sure you're getting the most from your motherboard.
Intel Chipset Driver Matrix
VIA Hyperion Downloads
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
Seriously, go 15k ultra 320 scsi.
That IDE drive, even with the 8mb cache, is going to be a real bottleneck to an otherwise kick ass system.
I used search on their page and didn't find one article for AMD.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Ok, don't think I'm going off on you, cuz I'm not:
I am so tired of people telling me what I need as opposed to what I want. You know the type. "You don't NEED a SUV, just buy a minivan." "You don't NEED a 500w power supply, 350w is more than enough." "You don't NEED dual procs, a single, faster, proc is more economical."
I have some requirements about my home PC. One of those is that I should never like the machine I use at work more than the machine I use at home. I like the snappiness of dual procs I like the ability to play a game while I rip a DVD. I like it when Gentoo slams through an emerge.
If someone has the money to pick up a Mobo, dual Zeons, and an assload of RAM, either be happy for them or shut the hell up.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
"Barbarion": A friendly though quiet elephant in search of his missing electrons...
I'm really happy with my Celeron 466s on a BP-6. but lately roll-your-own SMP has been taking a turn for the corporate. :( Where are the dual Durons roundups?! Quantity over quality is the only way to go.
Wouldn't that be Babarion? Is there such thing as a Rupertion
In particular, there is still only one cache per CPU. Maybe 2.5.x knows the difference, but I don't think 2.4.x does yet. Swapping needs to know hyperthreaded CPUs share their cache, so you don't unnecessarily migrate a process from one CPU to another and lose the cache commonality. Consider a dual Xeon system, each Xeon having two hyperthreaded CPUs. Two tasks, A and B, each having two threads. Better to have both A threads on the same Xeon, ditto for B, so they share the cache.
Infuriate left and right
I think this site may answer your question: http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/articles.hwz? cid=2&aid=393
i586 optimizations hinder performance on x86 cpus made after the P2/K6.
5000$ on an engagement ring??? Wow.... I've never in my whole life spent more than 3000$ on a computer so I'm not going to spend so much ever on an engagement ring.
If my girl wants a 5000$ engagement ring, she has two choices: help me pay it, or go see elsewhere. Love is not about money... If she's not happy to get *you* along with a budget engagement ring (let's say a 1000$ engagement ring), then she doesn't love *you* but your money...
Oh, and don't worry... My girl knows how I feel. So don't call me a cheap bastard. (She can of course, if she wants...)
I have used this case to build a system and would warn potential buyers to check their components very carefully, this is a very small case and you will need to make sure things will fit. I had problems with my CDROM drive, the cable bundle comming out of the power supply fouls the audio and power cables. You have about 8cm of space for heatsink and fan on the processor. I have had to under-clock the processor to compensate for the poor cooling. Make sure your motherboard has the power connector on the right of the processor otherwise you will be blocking the PSU fan.
:)
It is a cute little case and i have been impressed with the build quality but it really does require too many compromises for my taste.
YMMV of course
Aol
Get a spellchecker, Mensa boy.
Is it for workstation use? We're not talking about arrays of disks here, just replacing your IDE drive with a SCSI drive. AFAIK the limiting factor in the disk subsystem is the disk itself.
In a single-disk system it makes (almost) no difference if you use Ultra2Wide, Ultra160, or Ultra320 busses, because the most you're going to get out of the disk is about 60MB/sec. I can't see how SSA or FC would help at all unless you had enough disks RAIDed to hose the bus.
The same is true for IDE busses. UltraATA-66 and UltraATA-133 show less than 10% real-world performance difference when using the same disk, even though the bus is twice as fast with UATA133.
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
When you are about to do an objective and scientific piece of investigation
of a topic, it is well to gave the answer firmly in hand, so that you can
proceed forthrightly, without being deflected or swayed, directly to the goal.
-- Amrom Katz
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