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Looking for Linux Help When You've Lost Your Way?
ChesireKat asks: "I'm interested in knowing where people go for their Linux help/questions/needs. It seems that most IRC users will laugh at you, kick you, or just make you feel stupid because you're not quite as smart as they are (irc.nullnet.net is pretty good, they are usually willing to help). Forums are nicer about it, but most of the time, no one quite knows. Man pages always work, but it so time consuming, and sometimes after hours of searching, your still just as clueless as when you started. I'm interesting in knowing where other people find answers to the questions you just can't seem to figure out."
Most distributions have mailing lists that you can subscribe to ask questions. You will normally get a reply of a pointer to somewhere better to get help. Some lists allow you to post even if you don't join. Just asked to be CC'd
Rgds
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The Linux Documentation Project is one of the best sources for general Linux help. It has a list of tutorials, called HOWTO's, which explain how do to almost anything, from setting up a web server, to getting a mouse wheel to work under X windows. If you're having a problem, chances are many other people have had the same problem, and at least one of them have written a HOWTO for your particular situation. Their website is here
So there I was, juggling apples and small animals, when I accidentally bit into the wrong one...
Is it really so bad? I'm on OPN (or whatever it's called now, freenode?) generally, and while questions frequently don't get answered, I rarely see abuse. Same for mailing lists or Usenet. Usenet is a frequently overlooked resource that has the added bonus of being easily searchable for future people with the same issue.
Frankly, the highest percentage of stupid, abusive people I see is here.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I've had pretty good experience with http://www.linuxquestions.org/. Turn on reply notification and you'll get an email as soon as someone replies to your topic. I was amazed on several occasions where someone would post an answer, or at least suggestions within a couple minutes.. works great for anything i've asked about.
*i have no affiliation with linuxquestions.org, i just find them very useful for questions when i'm at my wits end looking through man pages and a hefty googling.
general Google searching.
focussed Usenet group searching via Google groups especially (eg,: Has anyone gotten oddball video card X to work?).
LDP. Howto's, mini-howto's. Often the general category has specific mention of caveats and gotchas that commonly plague people.
User manuals that came with your distro.
Bleat to a more knowledgeable local user, if they exist. Don't worry too much about imposing because sooner or later someone else will come to you asking for help. But, as with the newsgroups, it looks better to your local guru if you have a concise question and researched the problem fully, showing your wounds proving that you've already crawled over the broken glass of the TFM.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I do not trust Linux man pages or HOWTOs. I have had bad luck with them, in several Linux distributions. For correct (and correctly spelled) documentation, look at OpenBSD. Once you've had high-quality documentation, you won't want to go back.
What you have to do is find yourself a good community. A good community is not free; you have to help build it by making contributions of your own.
If you need help with a specific application, try the mailing list(s) dedicated to that particular application. I have had good luck on the Samba mailing lists, for example.
If it's for a business and you simply can't figure it out, just buy a support contract from Red Hat. That's what they exist to do.
#gentoo on freenode
Gentoo Forums
Not dicks. Helpful. Usually you'll get your question answered in no time flat.
.. and ask from them, if they know that you're not ignorant idiot, or feel like they shouldnt yell it to you, they'll help. especially if you're trying to do something meaningful like installing linux, instead of asking where you could warez the latest windows and office.
_before_ you ask anything, USE GOOGLE! learn to look for information with google, if you got a problem chances are that 20+ people have had it before and looked for help already.
read howto's, they explained everything needed already 5 years ago so i find it hard to believe they wouldnt have enought information today for solving all common 'problems'.
the reason why people can get very pissed fast on irc is that they get very frustated when very many people come to ask simple things they could have gotten the answer with simple google search, and, often the best answer you can give them is to point them at a page you get with simple google search(person z comes to channel and asks how to set finnish characters on linux, you do a quick search and point them to finnish-howto, you get quite fast pissed off thinking that why didnt mr. z type it into google and save both his and your time).
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
The first place I look is www.deja.com. There is so much information there that normally can fix whatever I have broken. As for IRC, check out http://www.freenode.net a very friendly helpful network.
comp.os.linux is a good place to start for general Linux questions. alt.linux.suse is a good if you happen to be a SuSE user. If your question is about a specific app, there's likely a group dedicated to it, like comp.protocols.smb for samba.
The Linux Documentation Project is sometimes good, But I often find the info I get there to be either out of date or too specific to a setup that isn't mine.
If I really want to know an app/language/whatever I pony up for the relevant O'Reilly book(s).
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Find a LUG, you can learn more listening to experienced admins than from sitting in IRC all day or pouring over tons of lists. Plus its nice to know a group of people locally that can always save your ass in case you do something stupid. IRC and lists are horrible to get _detailed_ help with. You'll spend 60 minutes explaining your problem over IRC and then you'll get a half dozen opinions. Having real people troubleshoot your system and teaching how it all works is the best way to learn. Sure they'll have a half dozen opinions too but at least in person people can show you things they can't over IRC.
Our LUG has regular installfests and it's not uncommon for people to bring their machines in if they want to do something complicated. Plus LUGs are good places to network professionally, trade hardware, and meet new people.
Btw, MDLUG if you're in the Detroit area, stop by our table during Penguicon in May.
I hit google, I've been on a contract for the last two years that has really let my skills fall. So I google, when I need help, or when friends need help. Tis very easy to just throw in your basic info, be it sound card model numbers and linux or modules.conf, or video drivers or whatnot, and it will almost always pull up enough info to get you going. Combine google with Tabbed browsing... just right click and open in tab the first 5-8 entries that look promising, and you've usually got an answer pretty quickly.
wordtrip.com
Ask an intelligent question and include a little about what you've tried or where you've looked thus far. If you're utterly lost and don't even know where to begin, ask for pointers to things you can read, don't ask for the quick answer.
Any geek worth his DSL line respects and likes helping a body who's making a good and honest effort. But if you come in wanting others to do more work than you've already done on your own, then it's good, honest fun to toy with you a little.
As a bonus: if you take a little abuse without going all non-linear and share a laugh with folks after, you'll probably still get your help in the end. :-)
http://lists.debian.org/google.html contains a archive of lots of common problems and the fix. This is where I go, but I use Debian GNU/Linux.
I for some reason have better luck restricting my search to the mailing list of my prefered distribution. Your mileage may vary.
Peace
Someone already mentioned a Detroit Linux Users Group, there are hundreds throughout the US and the World. Do a search on Google with your state and locality and LUG in the search bar and you will likely come up with something. I found the one here in Maine to be very professional, enlightening and friendly with zero troll factor and some excellent monthly meeting topics and presentations (even though I have yet to hit a meeting, I've read the ace notes posted online)
Here's a starter link: Linux User Groups listing at Linux.org
She blinded me with science, she tricked me with technology. ~ Thomas Dolby
PFFT, You know i'm just pretending :-[ But dont tell anyone else that... :-[
----
~Just keep eating, porky. Fat people are harder to kidnap.
...on this phenomenon at How To Ask Questions The Smart Way by ESR and Rick Moen
-=Maggie Leber=-
I find the local LUG lists a great place to start when asking for help. They often have very experienced people that are around for helping you. In particular, if you screw it up beyond all recognition, they're close enough that you can ask if they can come and fix the problem.
Google for your problem. Learning how to use google effectively to find answers to your problems is great time saver. Searching for "apache won't work" doesn't get you very far but "apache: can not bind to port 80" is likely to get a much better response out of google.
Look for documentation projects that try and help people out. My personal favourite is the Waikato Linux Users Group wiki which tries to encampus as much information about linux as it can. It's an excellent place to go and create a page asking a question and have several knowledgable people wiki'ing the answer, and then having it available for everyone else to find when *they* have the same issue.
I just post an Ask Slashdot asking where I can find help, then I sneak my questions into the comments by posting AC.
Works every time!
PS: Anybody know how I can set up a static host route on my usb0 connection that comes up whenever I plug in my zaurus? Thanks!
Okay, some of the following might sound blatantly obvious, but I just thought it might be worthwhile to mention some things that should be kept in mind when asking things from geeks.
First of all: most of the time the trouble isn't that people aren't willing to help. Instead, the problem lies in the fact that people asking things are not asking the right questions (which is most of the time because they have been lazy and not done the basic stuff like reading the tutorials or FAQs). People do not like to act as helpdesks, but they DO generally like to help out.
It sounds obvious, but before even considering asking a question from someone, do your research first. Really! It can be a pain, it can be time-consuming, but people can tell if you haven't read up on the subject (and consequently feel like you are trying to use them as helpdesks). It also is good for the future: you might read something that is not entirely relevant for the current task at hand but is just the ticket for some future problem. Read the documentation (even if a README file is all there is, read it). Do the basic Google searches (I find pasting error messages to a Google Groups search sometimes does wonders). Read some tutorials on the matter. If you are trying to set up NFS you will want to know how the damn thing is ultimately supposed to work. In fact, do the reading even before you start to fiddle around with anything new. This might seem elementary, but I've seen SO MANY people just jumping right into configuring a new piece of software of which they do not even grasp the basic concepts and then complain because it doesn't work.
If something isn't working and, play around. Consider what might be causing the error or malfunction. Make up theories: "it doesn't compile because my libsuchandsuch is of a wrong version", "the error on startup is because the program cannot connect to the database", "it seems it cannot find the config file although it is there". When asking your questions, you might even want to present these theories so the people considering your question can see that you have actually thought about the problem.
Be specific. Know the versions and flavors of your programs, compilers, kernels and daemons (and be sure to mention the relevant ones of these when asking your question!). Ask yourself what it is you are actually doing: you are not "configuring Apache" you are "setting up an HTTP server". You are not "trying to build a firewall", you are "trying to block all TCP connections from 192.168.4.2".
Make (at least mental) notes of the things you have tried and how they have changed the symptoms. Even if it doesn't seem like much to you that an error message changes if you fiddle with a configuration option, a guru might know exactly what is going on from that simple piece of information. If you are asking your question in a real-time discussion (IRC, telephone, face-to-face etc) have these notes handy so that you can provide more information if the person you are asking from needs it. Do not dump all of it on them at once.
Of course, if you are posting to a forum or the Usenet, observe the netiquette. Do not assume that your question will be answered. Your question might generate a lot of discussion, but you might still be without an answer to your question. Do not despair. Fiddle around with the problem some more and try to find more clues as to what is going on, then post a new question with the new information.
Do not just barge into a discussion forum, a Usenet group or IRC channel (etc) and immediately fire away your question. Lurk around for a while. Participate in the discussion. Know the people on the list/group/forum/channel. People like to help their acquaintances, but someone random just asking a question is easily overlooked, especially if the forum has been around for a long time.
If you actually get an answer to your question and it solves your problem, great! But do not forget the community that gave you the answer: make further use of the notes you have a